Winston Peters slams ‘multiculturalism’, wants single NZ culture

Acting Prime Minister Winston Peters has slammed ‘multiculturalism’, saying he stands for “a New Zealand culture”.

What is ‘multiculturalism’? According to Oxford:

multiculturalism

The presence of, or support for the presence of, several distinct cultural or ethnic groups within a society.

‘our commitment to the values of multiculturalism’

‘the schools promote multiculturalism and inclusiveness’

So that would accept that Māori culture could thrive along side various Pākehā  cultures as well as accepting Pacific Island cultures, Chinese, Indian and other Asian cultures, and smatterings of Scottish in Dunedin (and elsewhere), retain a French flavour in Akaroa, some Englishness in Christchurch and Dalmatians in the north.

It would accept the overlaps and merging of various cultures but accept some distinctiveness would be seen as acceptable.

It would accept that Anglicans and Catholics and Methodists and Jews and Muslims and Buddhists could retain their religious cultures without prejudice or discrimination.

But Peters panders to populism: Winston Peters compares multiculturalism to ‘rising up mushrooms’

Acting Prime Minister Winston Peters told talkback radio this morning that he stands for a “New Zealand culture”, not a “multitude of cultures”.

Speaking on whether multiculturalism has “failed”, Mr Peters appeared to argue it has.

“Well, let me tell you. There is one cultural thing we want developed in this country and that’s the New Zealand culture. That’s a unique culture that’s New Zealand,” Mr Peters said.

“It’s not a multitude of cultures and a plethora rising up like mushrooms in this country.

“No, we want a New Zealand culture. That’s what I’ve always stood for.”

It’s a similar message to one he shared on Q+A in 2016.

Back then, he said, “[Immigrants] can come from anywhere in the world. It’s not race-based. We want them to salute our flag, respect our laws, honour our institutions and don’t bring anti-women attitudes with them.”

How many Kiwis salute the archaic flag dominated by the flag of another country and often confused with Australia’s flag?

Of course every New Zealander should respect our laws in general (but have the right to criticise ass laws).

Obviously we shouldn’t want immigrants to bring anti-women attitudes with them, but we have plenty of sexual equality issues that linger in Māori culture and have immigrated long ago from the patriarchal England.

We must be able to choose our own cultural mix without being pigeon holed by populist pandering old politicians. I don’t identify with the legendary pissing up at the Parrot culture apparently favoured by some.

Mr Peters has long stood against so-called “mass immigration”, but has been much quieter on it since becoming Deputy Prime Minister.

That’s probably because he isn’t seeking ignorant votes since the election. New Zealand has nothing like ‘mass migration’, it is strictly controlled, made easy by our remoteness and our very large moat.

‘Mass migration’ seems to have become a deliberately misrepresented and exaggerated euphemism for ‘Muslim migration’, something we don’t have any disproportionate problem with in New Zealand.

Mass migration refers to the migration of large groups of people from one geographical area to another. Mass migration is distinguished from individual or small scale migration; and also from seasonal migration, which may occur on a regular basis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_migration

There is nothing like that here. Peters has repeatedly and deliberately falsely claimed we have mass migration in new Zealand – we haven’t had that since the influx of mostly Europeans in the 1800s.

New Zealand has long been a mix of many immigrant cultures.

There is one ‘New Zealand culture’ I would support – a culture of tolerance of different flavours of cultures, and an easy co-existence with people with different cultural practices and beliefs.

Claiming “a New Zealand culture” may pander to some who want their particular cultural mix to dominate, but it’s a nonsense.

I have never seen any definition of what “a New Zealand culture” would look like, especially from Peters.

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90 Comments

  1. Griff

     /  July 17, 2018

    A homogeneous New Zealand culture is a myth .
    We have many different cultures.
    I fact that was brought home to me working in building gangs.
    When we had drinks after work we would naturally separate into different groups
    Westies, shore boys, central and eastern and southsiders . This separation was not based on age, race, marital status or income it was purely that we all had slightly different identifiable cultures.

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  July 17, 2018

      Griff

      “There is an old Arab Bedouin saying: I, against my brothers. I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the world. That is jungle law. It is the way of the world when the world is thrown into chaos. It is our job to avert that chaos, to fight against it, to resist the urge to become savage. Because the problem with such law is that if you follow it, you are always fighting against someone.”

      https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/744666-there-is-an-old-arab-bedouin-saying-i-against-my

      But
      The labour government decided on a great experiment to confront peoples natural tendencies. In so doing they started a process that has lead to some of the highest rates on immigration in the OECD. While some argue that we have a rockstar economy others such as Kerry McDonald ague The high rate of immigration is a national disaster. It is lowering the present and future living standards of New Zealanders by serious adverse economic, social and environmental consequences.
      https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/82115/kerry-mcdonald-analyses-many-challenges-country-faces-and-concludes-we-need-effective
      Real wages have been falling in tourism and hospitality Etc. The benefits of immigration are concentrated and the costs dispersed. Competition leads to conflict.

      NZr’s are “racist as” Taika.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  July 17, 2018

      The way I look at it, Griff – there are different interpretations or types of culture. Like working men’s culture, ‘professional’ culture, rugby culture, celebrity culture etc) within the same broadly homogenous usually dominant national group, sharing a common language, behaviours, custioms, values, law and so on.

      There’s ethnic culture – people doing the same things, but in the ways that are particular to their ethnic group in their places of origin. And there are ethnic immigrant groups who simply assimilate into the extant fominant national culture of their host country & always intend to do that.

      And there are religious cultures, some of which extend across different ethnic groups but which don’t dominate their adherents’ behaviour to an extent that they dress and behave according to social mores & a preset, religiously-dominated separate legal system that are often at odds with their host countries’, regard themselves and their dictatorial, sexist, God & prophet as superior in every way to others, destined to rule the world eventually & not be ruled, because that’s what their Holy Books say.

      Islam is the largest & most strident of the last one mentioned.

      Reply
      • That Bedouin quote has been misquoted and expanded, The original version ends with the brothers and cousins uniting against strangers and ends there.

        Reply
  2. Corky

     /  July 17, 2018

    Interesting post. If we use France winning the football world cup we see the media gushing about 16 of the 23 French Squad being immigrants.So all us racists need to understand multicultural is is a success, case closed.

    But in the clips I have seen showing violence in Paris during the football celebrations, a disproportionate number of those rioting had dark skins.

    Maori/European relations show multiculturalism is a failure and can only work to a certain degree.

    Our culture is one formed by European and Maori ( in the main). It has a certain vibe. Many new migrants cannot or will not accept that vibe. They want their own little secular communities. They want what we have to offer, but don’t want to be part of us.. We want what they can offer us. But we refuse to control those immigrant communities and continue to allow people into our country who have little chance of integrating..

    Multiculturalism, in my opinion, has been proven time and again to be a failure.

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  July 17, 2018

      Interesting post. If we use France winning the football world cup we see the media gushing about 16 of the 23 French Squad being immigrants.So all us racists need to understand multicultural is is a success, case closed.
      ………..
      Black Americans excell at sport for genetic reasons. Likewsie you need an IQ of 120 to be an engineer and design infrastructure.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  July 17, 2018

      But in the clips I have seen showing violence in Paris during the football celebrations, a disproportionate number of those rioting had dark skins.
      … … …
      Kitty Catkin / July 16, 2018
      Two people were killed in the riots !

      0 0 Rate This

      Gezza / July 16, 2018
      I looked closely at the 1ewes footage to see if any particular ethnic groups seemed to be doing the damage and throwing bottles at the riot police. But no – it was a mixture, some white some black. Same with those just celebrating and in good humour, doing no damage at all. Black and white, no issues. The 1ewes reporter remarked on how surreal it was – there was one group rioting, smashing windows, lighting fires, and police trying to control them, and just along the road other crowds just celebrating and cheering.

      0 0 Rate This

      Kitty Catkin / July 16, 2018
      I noticed that the crowd was all kinds & colours, which was not really a surprise.

      0 1 Rate This
      … … …

      Keep it real.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  July 17, 2018

        Keyword: ‘Disproportionate ” As percentage of Frances population.
        I only watched a couple of clips. Maybe if I had watched more it may have been different. But I have a life. Still, this is an opportune time for Parti to tee off.

        Reply
      • sorethumb

         /  July 17, 2018

        I think football hooliganism belongs in a separate category.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  July 17, 2018

          It didn’t look like football hooliganism to me initially – precisely because that’s a phenomenon I’ve always observed to be perpetrated mostly by ignorant, ill-educa’ed white ‘fugs’ wot come ova ‘ere from England just looking for a stoush wiv any foreign tossa!”

          And these rioters was a real mixcha!

          But now I think about it, thumbsta, I think you’re right.

          Reply
          • It looked like fitba hoologanism to me, it’s not the first time that property has been wrecked and people killed. When we were in the UK. a man was chased onto the Tube and killed by a group because he was wearing the ‘wrong’ football scarf.

            Rioting and destruction have followed in the wake of football games for a long time.

            Reply
  3. PartisanZ

     /  July 17, 2018

    Well … in opposition to Nature’s plethora of diversity and that diversity’s inherent ‘safety factor’, we’re slowly attempting to turn our natural environment into a monoculture of pine trees … or perhaps a duoculture of pasture and pines …?

    I guess it follows we should do the same with our cultural environment …?

    Against all the odds eh?

    LANDSCAPE

    Smothered in pine trees
    Blanketed in pine needles

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  July 17, 2018

      New Zealand already lives in a diverse forest. It’s called earth. It’s a plane flight away. We should be able to pick and choose..that’s what tourism is about. Tourists eventually..GO HOME.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  July 17, 2018

        The F*%K@NG pine trees won’t be going home, will they?

        This topic is so stupid. Winston hasn’t got a hope. He’s demented. He’s not even playing to the Right Brigade … because he lost them at the election …

        He must be trying to win 5 or 6 new NZFirst voters out of the Southern-Molyneux bullshit?

        I’d like to see any government introduce ‘monoculturalism’ into our diverse plethora of government departments … like CreativeNZ … they refuse to even recognise biculturalism … Let alone foist it on a plethora of Charitocracy NGOs …

        Multiculturalism has gone way too far now … like ‘globalisation’ … in fact its a by-product of you Righties’ much vaunted globalisation …

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  July 17, 2018

          like CreativeNZ … they refuse to even recognise biculturalism
          How do you mean, PZ?

          Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  July 17, 2018

      Well … in opposition to Nature’s plethora of diversity and that diversity’s inherent ‘safety factor’, we’re slowly attempting to turn our natural environment into a monoculture of pine trees … or perhaps a duoculture of pasture and pines …?
      ………
      pure stupidity. Bees from different hives kill each other. Ethnocentrism has been shown in computer modelling exercises to dominate any alternative strategy for group survival.

      Diversity is the inverse of social cohesion.
      http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2016/09/robert-putnam-on-negative-effects-of.html

      Ethnocentrism is not a White disorder and evidence is emerging that immigrant communities harbour invidious attitude towards Anglo Australians, disparaging their culture and the legitimacy of their central place in national identity.
      https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2010/06/the-misguided-advocates-of-open-borders/

      Young women of Latin and Turkish origin living in Melbourne find it hard to see any Australian culture. Some see a vacuum; others see a bland milieu populated with ‘average-looking’ people. In contrast, they feel that their own migrant cultures are strong. They ‘get through more’. If there is any Australian culture it is, in their opinion, losing ground to migrant cultures.
      https://zuleykazevallos.com/2012/10/06/its-like-were-their-culture/

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  July 17, 2018

        ”Diversity is the inverse of social cohesion.”

        Thumbs, I’m giving you post of the day for posting that.

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  July 17, 2018

          “Diversity is the inverse of social cohesion” …

          Social cohesion is the FantasyLand of diversity deniers …

          So its the Oscar for best Fantasy post.

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  July 17, 2018

            FantasyLand … the happiest Snowflakes of them all …

            For “FantasyLand” read psychic ‘Safe Space’ …

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  July 17, 2018

            The more I look at the stuff you post, the more I pick up on the constant anti-Western European English speaking (Pakeha) slagging off of pretty well all of them that you constantly seem to do, the more I realise that of all the regulars here you would be one of the few who’s most in to what I see as hate speech.

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  July 17, 2018

            You need to answer that, Parti. Gezza has impinged your mana. Utu is demanded.

            I don’t think of myself as racist – others may think differently. But the way I see it, everyone gets a fair and just slagging from me.

            1- Feral Whites.
            2- Deadbeat Maoris.
            3- Middleclass mediocrities.
            5- Remmer toffs.
            6- Liberals
            7- Femma Nazis
            8- Wimmin.
            9- Righties who sell out.
            10- Beanies.

            The only group I admit I may have become racist toward is Muslims. And that’s only because some have declared war on the West, while others refuse to accept our ways.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              Do you mean impugned rather than impinged?

            • Corky

               /  July 17, 2018

              I thought about..and tossed a coin.

          • Gezza

             /  July 17, 2018

            The only group I admit I may have become racist toward is Muslims. And that’s only because some have declared war on the West, while others refuse to accept our ways.

            There are a lot of races & ethnic groups in countries which are predominantly or substantially Muslim, so I see your tirades in this area as fundamentally anti-religious. Like me, you see, opposed to the Islamic religion, its beliefs that it should dominate the world, many of its sexist practices, & its punitive Sharia Law codes.

            Do you have any issues with the 100s of Assyrian Christians who migrated here from Iran or Iraq, or with educated non-Muslim immigrants from any of these countries where they have, until recently, been allowed to openly practice their own religions without fear of being bombed or attacked in their own churches, or quiet atheism, & who still do so here?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              * like me, you seem (soz for rogue comma)

            • Corky

               /  July 17, 2018

              ”Do you have any issues with the 100s of Assyrian Christians who migrated here from Iran or Iraq, or with educated non-Muslim immigrants from any of these countries where they have, until recently, been allowed to openly practice their own religions?

              No, I have no problem with these people coming into our country provided their numbers are controlled. That goes for all other immigrants.

              I use the term racist as an ‘umbrella’ description. So many people don’t make a distinction between race and culture.

            • Corky

               /  July 17, 2018

              *Race, culture and religion.*

            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              Well I for one am happy to concede that you’re not always wrong, Corks. 👍🏼

  4. sorethumb

     /  July 17, 2018

    Multiculturalism is insidious. It abuses the culture of the host nation. It assumes people need a culture to survive and prosper and that those immigrant group cultures should therefore be given state support. That happens in the geographic boundaries of that host nation.

    Also it requires a new identity for the nation: that means down playing the contribution of the old one [“the Land Wars” 1840 to 1970] and upping the contribution of the new ones [Susan Devoy – “We shouldn’t assume that just because someone looks Asian they are a migrant – the Chinese have always been here”.

    Multiculturalism requires “an institutionalisation of public discourse”. When the institutions becomes closed to free inquiry that is not good. Michael Reddell went to a Pathways Conference where he recond he was about the only one of 200 people who was skeptical of the benefits of immigration.

    Whereas we adopted a separation of Church and state,multiculturalism is a separation of nation and state. In our case this started with biculturalism – the result has been professional Maori-ism and grievances.

    Multiculturalism assumes all cultures are equal .

    Reply
  5. Alloytoo

     /  July 17, 2018

    Peters is right, on the face of it anyway. One of the things reputable licenced immigration consultants do is discuss integration into NZ society with new immigrants, considering their existing back grounds and points of culture commonality.

    It does neither the immigrant, nor NZ Society any good if immigrants live in enclaves and don’t participate in wider society. High value immigrants have multiple points of integration, often both parents work, making friends and aquaintances through that and through schools and child care facilities, also immigrants still have to meet english language requirements. Even if they retain their native language at home, their kids are bilingual and are fluent NZ English speakers.

    It should aslo be remembered immigrants have chosen NZ over other options, and arguable have far bigger mental and emotional investment in NZ than some people who have merely had the good fortune to be born here.

    The real risk here are refugees, there is very risk that they arrive here with zero investment, zero skills and no desire to integrate into our society. We spend a fortune up front on these people, and there is a risk that this spending can continue hidden in our welfare bill years after.

    I do find it bizarre that often the same people who appear to dispise valuable immigrants, are perfectly happy to to advocate unfettered refugees.

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  July 17, 2018

      What, I wonder, could be more ‘enclaved’ than the fort-like villages of early Pakeha settlers?

      Oh … I know! The gated communities of White affluence and privilege …

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  July 17, 2018

        It’s been a long time since then. Let it go.

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  July 17, 2018

        And aren’t there other concentrations of Asian affluence & privilege?

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  July 17, 2018

          Might indicate a human tendency to live in enclaves huh?

          Well I never!

          Seems if these enclaves are non-White minority enclaves there is something threatening and dangerous about them?

          I’m just pointing out that “once upon a time” [in Fantasy New Zeal Land] the Pakeha enclaves were minority … and threatening … and dangerous …

          How about you let go superciliously telling others what to do …?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  July 17, 2018

            No mirrors in your house?

            Reply
            • PartisanZ

               /  July 17, 2018

              None like at yours … where there’s no reflection in them …

            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              All my mirrors reflect. A mirror that doesn’t reflect is not a mirror. I see myself as others see me & I don’t hate any group, not even Muslims.

            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              Correction: I’ll make one exception. I hate the gangs. Loathe them.

          • sorethumb

             /  July 17, 2018

            Parti
            I’m just pointing out that “once upon a time” [in Fantasy New Zeal Land] the Pakeha enclaves were minority … and threatening … and dangerous …
            …………
            Not that simple. Imagine if spacemen arrived with cold fusion technology . Imagine if they could build a land bridge across Cook Straight; imagine if they could cure disease; eliminate stoats?

            Reply
            • PartisanZ

               /  July 17, 2018

              And imagine if they only wanted all our land and resources …?

              And brought strange diseases which killed us in multitudes?

              And imagine if they missed &/or derided &/or destroyed all the things we had to offer them?

            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              And imagine if that was long ago now, & they don’t any more, & they are making great strides, probably more than anywhere else in the world, to recognise there are genuine grievances, apologise on behal of the nation for the sins of their forefathers, negotiate with the descendents of all those wronged (by pakeha – maori must make their own peace with those wronged by other maori) make amends & restitution where possible, & genuinely reconcile with them as the grievances are settled?

              And that now Maori culture & iconography is celebrated & more and more and like its language is increasingly on view nationwide, & in schools, and that only a minority of pakeha cultural supremacists whine about it, and that the goverment & most maori and pakeha pay them no particular attention (unless it is a genuine concern that truly warrants serious debate, usually resulting in an agreed solution) is continuing with the restitution & reconciliation process, in good faith, & with the expressed hope by both partners for a happy future for all of us?

          • sorethumb

             /  July 17, 2018

            Don’t forget Parti Margaret Mutu’s mother is Scottish. It is o.k to chose an identity but you can’t use it to attribute blame when upon analysis it makes no sense.

            Reply
      • Alloytoo

         /  July 17, 2018

        “What, I wonder, could be more ‘enclaved’ than the fort-like villages of early Pakeha settlers?

        Oh … I know! The gated communities of White affluence and privilege …”

        Oh, you don’t know, you appear to be confusing a preindustrial village with a golf estate (or a white South African ghetto).

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  July 17, 2018

        What on earth are you fantasising about, PZ? The early settlers lived amongst Maori and married them – and were called Pakeha-Maori.

        Reply
  6. sorethumb

     /  July 17, 2018

    The Truth About Diversity
    Mises Review 8, No. 4 (Winter 2002)
    MULTICULTURALISM AND THE POLITICS OF GUILT: TOWARD A SECULAR THEOCRACY
    Paul Edward Gottfried

    Here we arrive at Gottfried’s central point. The managerial state wishes to weaken, if not cripple altogether, any social group not under its control. The favored minorities who benefit from multiculturalism depend entirely on the state for their enhanced position: strengthening them weakens those who might prove recalcitrant to the state’s domination. A majority culture not created by the state is in a position effectively to resist its absolute mastery; hence the state claims that the historically dominant culture is but one of many competing groups, enjoying no privileged status. As a result, civil society loses its independent status and becomes totally subject to the state’s power.

    https://mises.org/library/multiculturalism-and-politics-guilt-toward-secular-theocracy-paul-edward-gottfried
    https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog128/node/534

    How immigration came to haunt Labour: the inside story
    Comments

    The simple political test of truth “If your intended policies are so good then why don’t you share them with the electorate”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/mar/24/how-immigration-came-to-haunt-labour-inside-story

    Reply
  7. Gezza

     /  July 17, 2018

    I get the impression Auckland’s multicultural in the sense that it’s largely segregated into groups of distinct ethnic groups all of which have their own, distinct European, Maori, Polynesian & Asian cultural characteristics & when they put on festivals everyone is welcome, people look happy to mix & mingle & eat the usual food from ‘back home’ & they generally go off very well.

    But there seem to be some streets in South Auckland where you’re not wise to hang around too long if you’re Samoan, or Tongan, or Pakeha. And there are places infested with gang culture.

    Porirua, just up the road from me is a very multi-ethnic place, with the same ethnic groups as Auckland, & people in the town & shopping precincts all seem to mingle well. Excep out in some state housing areas, like the place in Titahi Bay – where our hiking group walked through some short cut alleys one day, heading for a clifftop walk, where surly looks from residents were very noticeable, & several barking, snarling, pit bulls were hurling themselves at the fences trying to get at us. Not going that way again.

    One also avoids the Winz area & never looks at the gang members when they’re in town or some will menacingly glower: “who you fucken looking at 😡 ?”

    Except at cultural events, people all dress in typical pakeha Western style & communicate in English mostly.

    Wellington city & suburbs are not particularly ghettoised, although Chinese immigrants are starting to colonise certain areas. Newtown is a melting pot, but not a friendly-feeling place. People, noticeably, don’t look at each other & interrelate a lot. There’s visible tension around many Somalis who seem particularly prone to reacting loudly & angrily to perceived slights.

    My area of our street’s a cultural mix. My Immediate neighbours are, next door, North, Sri Lankan, & next door, South, a retired Chinese couple from South China who speak no English & don’t intend to learn it (communication’s mostly smiles, waves, “ah – yes” & pointing”, and next door down to them a Malaysian Chinese couple & their final year Vic Uni daughter. They speak English, but heavily accented, one has to concentrate fiercely. They’re pretty self-contained, by choice, but social inside their own place if you have dinner there.

    Out front, most of the rest of the street is Pakeha, but there are lots of Indian & Cambodian immigrants sprinkled among the Pakeha-owned houses. They all speak English & dress like us. They’ve assimilated well & their kids & teenagers are typical kiwi kids. Mixed-race girlfriend/boyfriend couples are a common sight. Indian girls born here seem much pursued by white boys, they’re often strikingly good looking.

    By & large Welly & Porirua are predominanly pakeha-oriented dress & culture with assimilated, or assimilating, multi-ethnic migrant groups. There’s a strong Maori culture but it’s spread out & not concentrated or predominantly on view in the streets – except on occasions at the few local city maraes.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  July 17, 2018

      Something of interest for me, because I wasn’t expecting it, is that my two sets of ethnically Chinese neighbours, who live right next door to each other, don’t get on. There’s been a lot of really petty squabbles and name calling, & they avoid each totally if they encounter each other outside.

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  July 17, 2018

      nice observations.

      Reply
  8. High Flying Duck

     /  July 17, 2018

    Multiculturalism is fine when the cultures involved share at least some core compatibilities. Ethnic melting pots and diversity can work very well. They add to the colour and vibrancy of a country and improve the nation over all when managed and when the various cultures are able to fit in to a broadly accepted framework – the aspects that make each country distinct from its neighbours.
    You hear many NZ’ers of various racial origins talking about how “kiwi” they are, but who have issues with racism. It is the “kiwiness” that incoming cultures need to be able to embrace, without necessarily losing their own identity.
    However, when you get cultures or religions with core principles that are at odds with this broad framework you get isolation, unrest and an inability to assimilate. You get demands for separate systems to deal with things “their way”.
    Rules are challenged and the core principles of how we live and interact get thrown up against belief systems that fundamentally do not share these norms.
    When this happens you get unrest and division.
    This is what the poorly articulated ACT policy of immigrants having to sign up to NZ “Values” tried to address. The policy nailed the problem, but did not provide the solution.
    The key to successful immigration and acceptance of multiculturalism is to be welcoming to those who want to live as we do – within a very broad and varied basic framework – while excluding those who would come here and try to impose their beliefs on us or refuse to abide by the basic tenets we adhere to.
    It is easier said than done, but essential to avoid painful repercussions in the future.

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  July 17, 2018

      Great post – sums it up well but Winston is ‘old school’ and from what I can tell this isn’t what he is proposing.

      Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  July 17, 2018

      You hear many NZ’ers of various racial origins talking about how “kiwi” they are, but who have issues with racism. It is the “kiwiness” that incoming cultures need to be able to embrace, without necessarily losing their own identity.
      However, when you get cultures or religions with core principles that are at odds with this broad framework you get isolation, unrest and an inability to assimilate. You get demands for separate systems to deal with things “their way”.
      …..
      Actually people have ethnic identities and this is where kiwiness is contested space. Eg Golriz complains about “having been made to feel she isn’t Kiwi enough”.

      China’s emergence as a world power is resulting in more Chinese New Zealanders feeling a greater sense of attachment to China than to New Zealand, a study has found.

      More than 94 per cent of Chinese permanent residents and more than half of those with NZ citizenship told University of Auckland researchers that they felt a greater sense of belonging and identified more with their country of origin than New Zealand.

      Between 2009 and last year, the researchers interviewed 90 migrants originally from China, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

      “An overwhelming 94.5 per cent stated they were Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Konger, while only 5.5 per cent said they somehow felt they belonged to both New Zealand and their country of origin,” the report said.

      The study also found that Chinese migrants aged 15 to 44 felt significantly more attached to their homeland identity than those aged 45 and over.

      Manying Ip, the professor of Asian studies who led the project, described this as “surprising” and said the finding contradicted earlier assumptions that older Chinese migrants were more conservative and therefore felt more attached to their homelands.

      “The finding is surprising in that it contravenes accepted migration and acculturation theories,” she said.
      “It indicates that the younger cohort are more attached than their older counterparts to their native homeland and feel their identity is more Chinese than anything else.”

      Professor Ip said the finding carried “significant implications for future interpretation of migrants’ sense of allegiance and their acculturation process”.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/multiculturalism/news/article.cfm?c_id=58&objectid=10783815

      “Everyone who comes here comes here at the invitation of the New Zealand government”

      Did we really need all those people?

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  July 17, 2018

      ‘This is what the poorly articulated ACT policy of immigrants having to sign up to NZ “Values” tried to address. The policy nailed the problem, but did not provide the solution.’

      Interesting when I look at the wives of Jaymie Whyte?,Prebble,Brash ….

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  July 17, 2018

        They all seem to have assimilated into mainstream pakeha culture, from what little admittedly have seen of them. Do you have information otherwise?

        Reply
        • High Flying Duck

           /  July 17, 2018

          Do you think ‘pakeha’ have a strong culture?
          I personally think what ‘pakeha’ bring to the table is the inclusivity and framework that allows other cultures to integrate. If the ‘pakeha’ culture was strong (not quite the right word) this would not be possible.
          The English have a coloured history, but my view is the sheer number of times they were invaded and colonised smoothed out strong cultural traits and evolved into a more rules and law based system that could embrace others.

          All the above (as does my original post) ignores the racism aspects or integration, which is a slightly different issue again.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  July 17, 2018

            Yes, pakeha do have a strong culture. It’s increasingly secular, & predominantly Western European English-speaking. It’s a bloody good culture. I like it a lot.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              *that is to say, I like it a lot the way it’s become, & the way it evolves slowly without losing the essential characteristics & values it deems important, some of which you identify above.

    • PartisanZ

       /  July 17, 2018

      @HFD – “It is easier said than done, but essential to avoid painful repercussions in the future” …

      Which begs the question: Is what’s happening now a “painful repercussion” of the past?

      Reply
  9. sorethumb

     /  July 17, 2018

    I agree with Ranginui Walker

    “Close the immigration door completely… I object to people from all those countries coming here… If that trend continues, we will ruin New Zealand. We will make it just like any other part of the world”

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/leading-maori-writer-academic-ranginui-walker-dies.html

    The horse has well and truly bolted under a barrage from academics HRC and the media
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/01/crab-fisherman-blamed-for-faeces-carcasses-on-uretiti-beach.html

    Reply
    • High Flying Duck

       /  July 17, 2018

      That is the paradox of open borders and multiculturalism.
      Its logical conclusion is one large monoculture where separate ethnicities are bred out of existence.

      Reply
      • sorethumb

         /  July 17, 2018

        Frank Salter claims an “ethny” is the largest unit capable of cohesion. We really need to stop being PC, stand back and observe.

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  July 17, 2018

        Multiculturalism can be studied any time. Europe, the subcontinent & Eurasia are classic studies. They’ve all been multiethnic, multicultural societies governed under one authority & legal system at various times throughout history. Look at these places now. Check out the history of how they all becamr separate nations. Mostly wars to become separated out into cohesive separate nation states identifiable by their distinct language, customs & cultures.

        That’s just what happens. The US might even eventually develop a Spanish & English-speaking split, if the number of Spanish speakers achieves an overwhelming majority.

        Reply
        • High Flying Duck

           /  July 17, 2018

          Well there is no official language for the USA, and the states all have the theoretical opportunity to secede if they did want autonomy.
          But as cultures mix and mingle more, there is inevitably a slow entropy to fully dissipated cultures.
          Open borders are more pervasive than war in the destruction of culture.
          Prove me wrong, but I can’t think of any strong culture that is not mono-racial in origin.
          I think the world will be a poorer place when it happens, and do enjoy the diversity that multiculturalism brings as it stands, with a few glaring exceptions, that are more religious than race based.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  July 17, 2018

            But as cultures mix and mingle more, there is inevitably a slow entropy to fully dissipated cultures.

            I think they tend to meld into a predominant one which then becomes a distinctly national culture in itself, unless it segregates itself thru sheer numbers & language & cultural differences. Consider Britain, US, Australia, NZ, Canada. Similar migration flow origins, similar Western European dominated, but distinctly different national identities & cultural characteristics (Oz & Nz the closest).

            Where are you thinking of for your proposition, though?

            Reply
            • High Flying Duck

               /  July 17, 2018

              It is happening to some extent everywhere. Maori are a good example of a culture being subsumed.
              It would be argued that Maori culture is now tacked on the pakeha culture to provide a NZ identity. Genuine Maori culture is diminished beyond recognition.

              This article from a UAE perspective of all things articulates it very well:

              “Globalisation has taken its toll on the world. It continues to blend cultures together at an extraordinary rate, integrating customs, values and traditions. In many parts of the world, this process has had a profoundly positive effect and eradicated some of the worst practices of racism, xenophobia and other injustices that have plagued the human race throughout history. But with it, globalisation has also ushered in an era filled with lost culture and identity.”

              https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/in-the-creep-of-progress-our-culture-gets-lost-1.83228

            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              And the UAE is heavily involved in sectarian wars & demonising Qatar

            • High Flying Duck

               /  July 17, 2018

              The relative merits of the existing culture in the UAE are not relevant. It was the comments about immigration – along with other aspects such as TV and the internet – impacting on cultures and watering down core beliefs,
              Over time all cultures will merge closer to a whole, unless immigration and open borders are reversed.
              I am a fan of immigration and like multiculturalism. It is just a fact that multiculture changes and therefore destroys existing monoculture.

            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              It is just a fact that multiculture changes and therefore destroys existing monoculture.
              Maybe over time, but the UAE is still dominantly Arab & Muslim, & national languages tend to keep many aspects of cultural identity separate & distinct. I like those differences in the places where they dominate. The problems arise where immigrants try to force their own culture on those that are different.

  10. DaveK

     /  July 17, 2018

    Benefits of multiculturalism…maybe not so much for democracy.

    One minor example….

    During his successful campaign for the Auckland mayoralty, in 2016, former Labour leader and MP, Phil Goff received $366,115 from a charity auction and dinner for the Chinese community…… Because it was a charity auction Goff was not required to state who had given him donations, but one item hit the headlines. A signed copy of the Selected Works of Xi Jinping was sold to a bidder from China for $150,000. A participant at the fundraiser said the reason why so many people attended and had bid strongly for items was because they believed Goff would be the next mayor. In individual donations, Goff’s largest donor, giving $50,000, was Fuwah New Zealand Ltd, a Chinese-owned company building a 5-star hotel on Auckland’s waterfront and working closely with the New Zealand One Belt One Road Promotion Council

    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/for_website_magicweaponsanne-mariesbradyseptember2017.pdf

    Nothing to see here, certainly no expectation of reciprocation….move along now plebs…..

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  July 17, 2018

      they give donations of that magnitude only because they….’like’ Goff….ask Trav if you doubt..that… 😉

      Reply
    • High Flying Duck

       /  July 17, 2018

      To put a charitable spin on it, it may be a case of mistaken belief that the quid pro quo practices where they come from would fly in this country.
      But this speaks to the cultural framework we expect in NZ – corruption is very low here (despite the political attacks trying to allege otherwise) and any immigrants should be expected to accept that buying favour is not tolerated here.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  July 17, 2018

        If any ex Chinese spy trainer thinks just because he is a super fund raiser for National,that he’s going to walk in to our…Parliament…he better ..think..again!Bol.

        Reply
        • High Flying Duck

           /  July 17, 2018

          Different issue – infiltration vs corruption and buying of political favour.
          I assume there were full investigations of the MP you speak of. He hasn’t been kicked out yet…

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  July 17, 2018

            so which one are you assigning to my post?…’ infiltration vs corruption and buying of political favour.’

            Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  July 17, 2018

        @HFD – “But this speaks to the cultural framework we expect in NZ – corruption is very low here (despite the political attacks trying to allege otherwise) and any immigrants should be expected to accept that buying favour is not tolerated here.”

        Funniest thing I’ve read all week!

        Allow me to rephrase: But this speaks to the cultural framework we don’t even recognize as being a culture and therefore do not believe exists in NZ – corruption is very subtle and nepotistic here (despite the smokescreen of attack politics) and any immigrants should be expected to accept that buying favour is somewhat less tolerated here than currying favour … or loading the dice … or any of a raft of other underhanded techniques that constitute “legitimized corruption” …

        Reply
  11. Zedd

     /  July 17, 2018

    Winston just chanting his mantra; “NZ first” (inclusive of all ‘kiwis’ ?). Maori are the ‘indigenous people of this land’ but as Chinese, Indians & others etc. increase in numbers, the whole bicultural (maori & pakeha) is becoming less relevant & we are perhaps, finally accepting ‘multiculturalism’ as the ‘current face of Aotearoa/nz’ ? :/

    …taking the ‘centrist’ position… 😀

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  July 17, 2018

      Winston’s just following his standard practice of getting media attention with same old hoary chestnuts, taking their eye off other things thry should be looking more closely at. With this line, pushed out again at election time, he’ll still pull in a few pakeha rednecked suckers who think “ok, maybe THIS time he really means it!”

      Reply
  12. Alan Wilkinson

     /  July 17, 2018

    It would be more useful to identify the essential subset of basic values that we cherish. There has always been a wide range of cultures on top of those.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  July 17, 2018

      Sounds promising. Start with your list. We can see what other folk add?

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  July 17, 2018

        Fairness, classless, helpful, tolerant, self-reliant, trustworthy, modest.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  July 17, 2018

          Language?

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  July 17, 2018

            English version of Aussie.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              Yep. I honestly think English is the best option for an international language. It’s so rich, but it can be used quite well with very simple sentences, & written English characters are efficient compared to other scripts, compared to say Arabic or Chinese characters.

            • PartisanZ

               /  July 17, 2018

              If English becomes the international language then English-speaking European becomes the international culture … simple as that … because the language ‘hosts’ all the cultural elements … from linguistic nuance to lesser and greater literature …

              Yay! In the ‘Tribal Challenge Cup’ of all the many nations’ plans to dominate the world … England wins!!!!

            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              We learned a little bit of Esperanto in 4th form. It was needed to be part of the process for streaming kids into the language & science classes. The pecking order was thst the bright kids went into the language & sciences forms.

              I got streamed into the bright kids classes. Bit of s bugger because when it cames to the maths & sciences I at all as flash as I wanted to be. Loved French, spoke it well, I have a good ear for subtleties of pronunciation. Hated Latin & Cabbage, the teacher, & it was a mutual loathing, so at least that seemed fair, in a way. Failed Latin spectaculary. Both my brothers loved Cabbage & excelled at it, but they were bastards sometimes so I didn’t bloody care.

              Latin gave me a solid grounding for pronouncing Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Maori & Polynesian languages, so that was great.

              Loved French. Good marks, sailed thru no study. Loved History, which I took in 6th form in place of Latin. Top mark in UE.

              But the Esperanto thing, I thought would really take off, internationally & it never did. I found it quite Anglo-Spanishy hybridish, from memory.

              English is the international aviation language & I think international Maritime language too, & its use has increased globally because its so associated with all the technological & communications dvelopments that have come out of English-speaking nations.

              NZ is becoming more Americanised in language forms in my view, for the same reason, particularly through diverse media firms we all use.

              It’s quite possible that therefore Americo-British norms will become nore widespread, & as I look around the world at Asia, Africa, South America, particularly in the cities, it already has. Western dress is common everywhere, even in Middle Eastern societies where some men one sees on Aljaz tv are still robed. Generally where they wear Arab headdress too Western clothing seems less prevalent.

              But there are still plenty of places around the world where they speak their national languages too as the lingua franca & official languages French is often spoken in former colonies for the pleasure of it. It’s a gorgeous language to speak properly.

              Kiwis are dreadfully monolingual as a rule. Speaking other languages gives you very good insights into different cultures as they all have cultural concepts that don’t directly translate into English & that’s partly why English soaks up & adopts foreign words so well.

            • Gezza

               /  July 17, 2018

              Feckin iPad

              *I got streamed into the bright kids classes. Bit of a bugger because when it cames to the maths & sciences I wasn’t at all as flash as I wanted to be.

              *particularly through the diverse media forms that we all use.

            • PartisanZ

               /  July 18, 2018

              Yep, Esperanto was a truly brave attempt to create a neutral international language …

              I’m not going to look it up, but the history of it probably mirrors the history of every other truly courageous ethical initiative by mankind …

              Destined for the ‘Darwinian Economics’ dustbin …

            • PartisanZ

               /  July 18, 2018

              An international language is great for things international …

              The same idea applied to a national culture is anathema to most people …

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