Police prepare for ‘torrid’ pay claims

Following the lead of nurses, teachers and other groups of government workers the Police Association is preparing for wage claims. They will have a good argument to at least maintain parity with teachers and nurrses.

NZH: Pay, recruitment and retention in the mix for Police Association in negotiations

Police are beginning to press their claims for better pay and conditions, with negotiations between their union and their bosses beginning this week.

Among the issues concerning frontline officers are recruitment, retention and pay.

The Police Association has warned its members in its monthly magazine Police News that there could be some “torrid negotiations” ahead which it says it is well-prepared for.

The negotiations come at a time marked by industrial action in the public sector. Nurses have already been on strike, primary school teachers will strike next month, ACC senior doctors walked off the job this week, and MBIE and IRD staff have been on strike.

Government wage bills look like being under significant pressure as different worker groups look to take as much advantage of a Labour led government.

45 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  July 19, 2018

    Never give a sucker an even break is advice well heeded by unions. Lucky old taxpayers with this government.

    • Little wonder they have Cullen sitting in a back room into how to make every sort of asset taxation palatable. Tax us into oblivion.

      • Blazer

         /  July 19, 2018

        never mind oblivion…try a tax haven..lots to choose from, for those that stint on paying their fair share.

        • I can tell you that I still pay a small fortune and I believe that what I’ve squirrelled away after government’s progressive taxation is more than enough. What they gouge to keep our society civil and operating (most of which benefits me and mine) I’ve largely given willingly. I’m not having a bunch of wet socialists, most of whom have never had the nous to imagine a business let alone the independence and cahones to build one, telling me that I have to give them more.

          • When I was self-employed, I wrote off everything that I legally could against tax, with the IRD’s guidance.

            Tax havens are perfectly lawful, contrary to what people like Blazer think.

  2. David

     /  July 19, 2018

    The unions have figured this is a one term government so they might as well go for broke. The other union calculation is that they basically get to choose who leads the Labour party and can poke the government and tease them that they will re nominate Little who would become PM and 3/4 of the caucus will be out next election and no more ministerial baubbles.
    Smart strategy but will inevitably backfire when the economy grinds to a halt and the public sector are getting 20% pay rises as we go into deficit.

    • Blazer

       /  July 19, 2018

      I am a convert to deficits…the bigger the better.

      • Go for broke, i.e. make the country go broke.

        Nurses earn very high wages. The 18% increase is dreaming.

        What on earth do people mean by a torrid (torrid = hot, dry as in desert) pay claim ?

        • Gezza

           /  July 19, 2018

          I looked that up earlier today – wondering the same thing. It has a 2nd meaning:

          torrid
          adjective
          1. very hot and dry.
          “the torrid heat of the afternoon”
          synonyms: hot, sweltering, sultry, scorching, boiling, parching, sizzling, roasting, blazing, burning, blistering, tropical, stifling, suffocating, oppressive; dry, arid, barren, parched, waterless, desert
          “a torrid summer”

          2. BRITISH
          full of difficulty.
          “he’d been given a pretty torrid time by the nation’s voters”

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  July 19, 2018

            People who misuse it in that way probably don’t know what the real meaning is, like those who think that discrete means discreet or that brilliants are fake diamonds rather than what they actually are; the best quality diamonds.

            I have heard torrid misused to mean difficult, but it’s a worong usage,

  3. Corky

     /  July 19, 2018

    All grist for the mill. The economy is beginning to tank. Media commentators are starting to bite as they realise how well trained National had the unions and blue collar workers.

    Police are losing 500 members a year as they give up on poor pay and fighting crime.

    Hard bitten gang bangers exiled from Australia are rumoured to be behind a spike in gangland killings. Meanwhile Andy wants crooks to be rehabilitated and not punished.

    Yep, my perfect storm continues to grow.

    .

    • Blazer

       /  July 19, 2018

      ‘Police are losing 500 members a year as they give up on poor pay and fighting crime.’…never fear they have 5000 applicants for the present intake.

      • Corky

         /  July 19, 2018

        True…but..according to a Police Association spokesman, many are from the higher ranks.
        That means a loss of experience, higher IQ and efficiency.

        This really is a telling statement on our non functioning justice system.

  4. artcroft

     /  July 19, 2018

    The die is cast. Even if the Govt collapses tomorrow and National sweep into power, the mood among front line civil servants won’t change. The demands would remain the same. All that remains to be seen is how large the pay increases will be. This is actually an opportunity for Grant Robertson to look like a leader and score some points. Will be difficult though. He has to look calm and firm but know when to hold and when to fold. Good luck.

    • Corky

       /  July 19, 2018

      Arty, Robertson is already in mid draw. No going back now.

    • artcroft

       /  July 19, 2018

      Also a big test for Bridges. He has to somehow look like he’s on the nurses, teachers, cops side without looking like a pushover.

  5. duperez

     /  July 19, 2018

    “Government wage bills look like being under significant pressure as different worker groups look to take as much advantage of a Labour led government.”

    What would the nurse, teacher and police worker groups have done differently had the Government not changed last September?

    If the question were asked on Kiwiblog the answer in a flash would be along the lines of, “Crusher would sort them out, she’d smash the union thugs.” The sort of Trump, “Barehanded I’d sort out three armed intruders” rubbish.

    I mean really, what would the scenario look like?

    • Corky

       /  July 19, 2018

      ”I mean really, what would the scenario look like?”

      What scenario?

      • duperez

         /  July 19, 2018

        The industrial scenario had the Government not changed last September.

        • Corky

           /  July 19, 2018

          That’s my point. There would be no scenario because National had workers and unions house trained. You are now seeing what happens when a puppy rules its master. They crap all over the carpet..and still expect more food and the right to crap again the next day.

          Geeza may have a point about the nurses. But under National they would be grateful for what they could get…and not for what they expect.

    • Gezza

       /  July 19, 2018

      I dunno. I’ve been trying to work out whether they’d be striking if National was still on the Treasury Benches. I think the nurses would, probably. They’re overstretched to the max & at their wits end. Teachers, maybe … my guess, not. MBIE, ACC, IRD staff? No.

      What’s your thinking dupers?

      • duperez

         /  July 19, 2018

        Overall I don’t think things would be much different with a National led government. Industrial action is likely factored in strands to achieve various things. The elements of the various groups are probably different, e.g. nurses being stretched, teachers probably retention and the ageing workforce, IRD etc. seeing pay rates as not matching market rates and relativities not being maintained. (excuse simplifications.)

        Maybe a National Government with the weight of six or seven Act in coalition would have pushed strongly in some directions, like tried for performance pay with teachers.

        It has so happened that a big cluster of negotiations have happened in the first year of a new government. Months into the term they have to deal with the contract renewals. A 4th term National government would have more miles on that clock and their motor would have been hot.

        Whether the unions are taking a different approach because of the flavour of the government I don’t know.

        • PDB

           /  July 19, 2018

          1. National if in a coalition would have had a far stronger financial position than Labour who have had to sell off the kitchen sink to get Winston/Greens on board.
          2. National had far less spending promises & no extra borrowing hence again had more money available to spend on the public sector if required.
          3. More people (especially singles) would have been better off under National by now due to tax cuts so would already have something back in their pockets by now.
          4. National is not owned by the unions like Labour hence the unions would settle for less (lets face it, the nurses deserve an increase but their claims are over-the-top).
          5. The unions have also got their backs up when they see billions already prioritised & spent on fighting the Chinese in the pacific, more diplomats, a slush fund for Jones, bribing students, new planes and good looking horses.
          6. As you mention National would have been unlikely to just give a shit load more money, no doubt they would have wanted something in return whilst the new govt has been only talking up (overhyping) underfunding of the public sector & are in a far weaker negotiation position.

          • Blazer

             /  July 19, 2018

            ‘ would have had ‘…woulda,shoulda,…coulda…

            • PDB

               /  July 19, 2018

              This govt: ‘lied, can’t, broke’….waita untila wea taxa you mucha mora…

            • Blazer

               /  July 19, 2018

              @PDB is that your attempt at a chinese accent…very …gooda.

    • Callum

       /  July 19, 2018

      The biggest issue is expectation. Labour promised a lot, get in power and then say there is no money. A lot of people who voted for them are pretty pissed off especially when they see the rest of the cash that is getting thrown around.

      • Corky

         /  July 19, 2018

        ”Especially when they see the rest of the cash that is getting thrown around.’

        That’s it in one. They see money being thrown around because of ideology and not need.

        On that note. It was reported on radio that some of these new homes that have been completed for the homeless are already creating problems with noise and tenants who aren’t looking after their properties. Being intensive housing units everyone is basically living on top of each other which magnifies any problems and creates ghetto estates.

        Complaints to police and Winz have resulted in no action being taken.

        https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britains-estates-are-social-concentration-camps-1678127.html

        • High Flying Duck

           /  July 19, 2018

          You should do a “Concentration camp of the day” post Corky – you are finding them everywhere!

          • Corky

             /  July 19, 2018

            When you step out of the Matrix the world becomes a different place, Highflyer.

      • High Flying Duck

         /  July 19, 2018

        The truly bizarre aspect is that they built those high expectations and then only allowed for $600m in contingency for wage growth across the whole public sector – or an average 2% wage rise.
        The nurses have nabbed at least $540m of those funds with plenty to come from almost every other sector.
        They were warned they had not allowed remotely enough for contingencies in PS cost growth – it was a large portion of the “fiscal hole”, but were adamant they had plenty of funding for all.

        • Blazer

           /  July 19, 2018

          How much did National…allow for?

          • PDB

             /  July 19, 2018

            National by now were to be paying down debt so had ample room to increase public sector funding if they so wished. Winston was never going to get his billions $ from National either, nor well off students, nor ‘good-looking’ horses so plenty of money to spend especially when the surplus was also much larger than expected.

            • Blazer

               /  July 19, 2018

              so they were winging…it.Typical.

            • Gezza

               /  July 19, 2018

              My take is they had enuf in reserve to wing it where they needed to, hoping they wouldn’t have to feed the Peters stable.

            • PDB

               /  July 19, 2018

              They were running the economy in a sound fashion based on need – this mob decided to have a big spend up on ‘nice-to-haves’ and then complains that everybody wants to join the party.

            • Blazer

               /  July 19, 2018

              Govts do not ‘run’ the economy.

            • Don’t tell me, the banks do.

              Anyone who knows anything about real concentration camps will be disgusted at the analogy between them and UK housing estates. The German ones and the Russian Gulags were nothing like this, and nor were the Japanese ones. These people are free to come and go, they are not being starved and tortured and worked to death.

              The woman who claimed that living in one ruined her chances of being a model or an air hostess is dreaming. .How many people become one anyway, wherever they live ?

  6. Blazer

     /  July 19, 2018

    ‘MBIE, ACC, IRD staff? No.’…AGREE.

  7. PDB

     /  July 19, 2018

    Police, nurses deserve a pay rise……….teachers, IRD staff etc not so much.

  8. As I remember it. last time Labour were in charge the strikes were on as soon as the new term began. It’s just the mixture as before

    If nurses have been in dire straits all this time, why did they wait until now to strike ? Ditto the others. We all probably remember the days when the unions held the country to ransom, like the ferry workers striking over trivia at times when it would cause most disruption.The bus driver strike that’s on now is designed to cause maximum distress and inconvenience.

    The unions would do well to remember the old woman and the vinegar bottle and what happened when she became too greedy.

    Brian Rudman believes that we should borrow to pay wages. I can’t see how anyone could think that that is a good idea..