Southern and Molyneux can come to New Zealand

I think that the Minister of Immigration Iain lees-Galloway has correctly said that Canadians Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux are free to come to New Zealand.

This is a good decision for free speech.

I hope, if they aren’t too shell shocked by their Australian visit and come here, they are left in no doubt what that the majority of New Zealanders think of what they say.

If they try to stir up controversy as they have in Australia they may found out that free speech works both ways, and there is a lot of strong speech that contests their agenda.

From the little I’ve seen Southern may have bitten off a lot more than she can chew.

They could come here and be widely lauded and applauded, but i very much doubt that.

66 Comments

  1. One can only guess at what sort of person would want to see these attention-seeking morons.

    • Corky

       /  July 20, 2018

      I would like to see them so I could make a sound judgment on what they say. You can’t beat live to judge a person. Anyone can prattle on a blog.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  July 20, 2018

        My guess as to the sort of person who would want to see them was accurate and has just been confirmed.

        • Corky

           /  July 20, 2018

          Glad to be of service. Now you know where you stand.

    • One thing is for certain – the media will give them a lot of free attention. They are likely to over do things as they often do, but generally I think it’s fine for Kiwis, known for their tolerance, to to see what the two Canadians are actually like.

      Are the two a couple? Or are they just a PR concocted act?

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  July 20, 2018

        I hope that they are a couple, I’d hate to thnk that there are two other people who’d fancy them and want to live with them.

        • Gezza

           /  July 20, 2018

          Molyneux’s married to someone else & says he has an 8 year old daughter who he claims to be bringing up to think for herself, say what she thinks, & be self-reliant like him.

      • Zedd

         /  July 20, 2018

        they’ve already been given a whole heap of media attention. They would likely have not even drawn much.. if Goff hadn’t made this fuss ?

        • With any lick, only a few bigoted nutters will turn up…that’s if anyone will give them a place to spout their repellent nutterguff bile.

          People who like that sort of thing can easily see it online, without these people coming here to be a public nuisance. They are unlikely to convert anyone to their sick viewpoint.

          • any LUCK.

          • sorethumb

             /  July 20, 2018

            Bigoted because…..?

          • unitedtribes2

             /  July 20, 2018

            Hey Kitty. Can you link to a tube interview demonstrating any of the stuff you suggest these two are. I have just watched 3 videos and cant find anything offensive. Or am I just too far right.

    • sorethumb

       /  July 20, 2018

      Moi! But only because of that attitude.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  July 20, 2018

      How do you know they are morons? I see a lot of abuse flying at them from people who really know nothing about them. I find that rather moronic.

  2. Corky

     /  July 20, 2018

    Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux have a chance to take the fight to liberals. They should call them out for a public debate. After One News doing a biased number on them tonight, they have some ground to make up.

    Hopefully liberal protesters will become violent. That would really tarnish their mana in the public’s eye. And play right into the hands of us Righties.

    • Hopefully is an adverb. You mean that YOU hope it.

      It’s hard to do a biassed story on these two unlovely bigots, they are so ghastly that it’s impossible to make them sound anything else.

      • Corky

         /  July 20, 2018

        ”Hopefully is an adverb. You mean that YOU hope it.”

        I thought it was a word. So I used it. I’m sure people will know what I meant and won’t become prattish about nothing.

        I think you need to consider whether you have anything of importance to add to this debate, or whether you are a peripheral pseudo intellectual who’s only capable of shallow gladfly cliches.

        Question: Do you think Chris Trotter would attend their meeting?

      • An adverb IS a word, of course.

        • Corky

           /  July 20, 2018

          Exactly.

        • I neither know nor care if Chris Trotter or anyone else is likely to be there. It’s of no interest to me.

          Why don’t you email him (as you do so many other people) and ask ?

          Your resorting to personal abuse is no surprise. One doesn’t end up with an MA Hons (that means Master of Arts; the degree that follows a BA and Honours….well, you wouldn’t understand if I told you what that meant) by being a pseudo intellectual, of course. The fact that you use intellectual as an insult speaks volumes.

          An adverb is a word that describes the manner of an action. By saying that hopefully the liberals would be violent, you were saying that they would be violent in a hopeful way, just as someone treading heavily is treading in a heavy way.

          Yes, adverbs ARE words, but that doesn’t mean that you were not using it nonsensically.

          • sorethumb

             /  July 20, 2018

          • Corky

             /  July 20, 2018

            ”Why don’t you email him (as you do so many other people) and ask ? ”

            That’s something you should be doing. It’s called research. Or to put it in simple terms – getting it straight from the donkeys mouth.

            ”I neither know nor care if Chris Trotter or anyone else is likely to be there. It’s of no interest to me.”

            That’s your problem. You are a closed loop feeding on your own reflections.

            You can’t foot it with me, and are reduced to being a grammar checker.

            Lucky for you I don’t use my grammar checker.

            ”Your resorting to personal abuse is no surprise. ”

            Rubbish as usual. Your inane reply to many of my posts elicits a like response.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  July 20, 2018

        Can hopefully mean ‘I hope’?
        In the 1960s the second sense of hopefully (“it is hoped”), which dates to the early 18th century and had been in fairly widespread use since at least the 1930s, underwent a surge in popularity. A surge of criticism followed in reaction, but the criticism took no account of the grammar of adverbs. Hopefully when used to mean “it is hoped” is a member of a class of adverbs known as disjuncts. Disjuncts serve as a means by which the author or speaker can comment directly to the reader or hearer usually on the content of the sentence to which they are attached. Many other adverbs (such as interestingly, frankly, clearly, luckily, unfortunately) are similarly used; most are so ordinary as to excite no comment or interest whatsoever. The “it is hoped” sense of hopefully is entirely standard.

        https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hopefully

  3. PartisanZ

     /  July 20, 2018

    Yay! If the demi-Gods of New Eugenics can get visas, it bodes well for a visit from God himself, Jordan Peterson …

    This might lift the profile of the Right Brigade from 1200 to maybe 1300 people …although they’ll remain at 0.03% of the voting age population due to population increase … mostly because of immigration …

    Perhaps the release of Alan Titford is imminent?

    The actions of the Free Speech Coalition demonstrate that “majority” has got nothing to do with it. These people, Brash and his cronies, are the same minuscule minority who have the wealth and influence to constantly attract media attention their numbers simply do not deserve …

    Like the loud, disruptive kids in a classroom that get all the attention despite not wanting to learn anything …

    • Corky

       /  July 20, 2018

      Feeling the heat, Parti? It’s a bummer when the other side can sidestep the liberal media and have a chance to fight back.

    • artcroft

       /  July 20, 2018

      A visit from Peterson. Yes please.

      • Corky

         /  July 20, 2018

        All guns blazing, Arty.

      • Gezza

         /  July 20, 2018

        My take on Peterson is that he enjoys all the attention & riches his strong male style garners but he has very valid points to make, research to back him up & a combative, aggressive style of defending his views & conclusions.

        He wipes the floor with critics who don’t like his views – like strident feminists pushing the “women aren’t doing well in STEM occupations because they are suppressed by the patriarchy” line, & wimpy little humanities professors doing worthless gender bender studies whining that not recognising dozens of self-invented weird nonsense gender identities of mixed up students is “violence” that is causing them severe emotional harm.

        In the first case mentioned STEM, the research data he cites appears to be strong & his conclusions supported by other researchers with no particular political axe to grind.

        In the 2nd case – there are now reportedly up to 70 gender identities people want to claim for themselves & most have damn all to do with the actual gender the people project in their appearance. He knows a wind up from a hysterical self-entitled disruptive victim when he sees one.

    • sorethumb

       /  July 20, 2018

      The Left Is Eating Itself – Reject Enlightenment in favour of Post modernism

      • sorethumb

         /  July 20, 2018

        That Is Rationality Rules assessment of Salon Debate.

  4. wooden goat

     /  July 20, 2018

    “…they are left in no doubt what that the majority of New Zealanders think of what they say.”

    That’s because the majority of New Zealanders know nothing about Islam (and don’t want to know).
    As Orwell said – “if liberty means anything at all it means having the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

    Why is it that we despise Nazism but so many people love Islam (which has killed an order of magnitude more people and continues to do so)?
    Where is the logic and consistency?

    In any case – who is saying that the majority is always correct?
    “Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.”
    – Mahatma Gandhi

    • Christians have killed many times more people than Muslims have, up to 7 times as many despite being not remotely 7 times as many in numbers.

      Hitler was responsible for at least 12,000,000 deaths. I don’t know how many Stalin achieved, but the number is enormous,

      ‘Despise’ seems a weak word to use of a regime like the German Nazis. Most people do rather more than despise people like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Tse Tung who have caused so many deaths.

      Even Mao was responsible for 30-40,000,000 deaths.

      Islam is an also-ran by comparison.

  5. wooden goat

     /  July 20, 2018

    Kitty Catkin – “They are unlikely to convert anyone to their sick viewpoint.”

    Is it “sick” to mention the estimated 270 million people (and counting) that Muslims have killed in the name of Islam?
    https://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/

    ( Even if you take out the 10-15 million or so killed due to the Atlantic slave trade, that still leaves well over 200 million dead).

    Is it sick to point out the verses in the Islamic texts that are hateful towards non-Muslims?

    Is it sick to mention the violence in the Muslim-dominated suburbs around the world (and to not want such suburbs here)?

    Is it sick to point out the lies that Muslims have told about Islam?

    Is it sick to *tell the truth*?

    What *is* sick is prejudging people who would like to see these people and make up their own minds, and not have someone like Kitty Catkin be the arbiter of “what is good and what isn’t”.

    • Yes, it is sick to be bigoted, to exaggerate numbers or invent them and take quotes out of context.

      It is extremely unlikely that these two creeps tell the truth about very much.

      Like Corky, you have an annoying habit of putting words in people’s mouths and making false claims about their thoughts and words.

      These bigots are easily found online, I would imagine. People don’t need to see them in the unlovely flesh.

      • Look up a more reputable site than the only one that you seem to have looked at.That one is not likely to be of any real value.

        Look at more than one whose figures and conclusions are likely to be credible.

        I would never be stupid enough to look for confirmation to a site that is known to be slanted and inaccurate. I looked at many more than you seem to have and drew my conclusions in a logical way.

        Next you’ll be quoting ‘Bare Naked Islam’ .

  6. sorethumb

     /  July 20, 2018

    I hope, if they aren’t too shell shocked by their Australian visit and come here, they are left in no doubt what that the majority of New Zealanders think of what they say.
    ………..
    I hope, if they aren’t too shell shocked by their Australian visit and come here and that their is a perception of minimal support.

  7. sorethumb

     /  July 20, 2018

    Southern was charged $86,000 by police for extra staff – The left was charges $0.

  8. wooden goat

     /  July 20, 2018

    Ah ha – gotcha, my dear Kitty Catkin! Islam an “also ran”, eh?

    Check the link out that I posted above. 270 million dead.
    https://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/
    ( Gee….. Christianity is an “also-ran” in comparison….. )

    So – you are saying that Christianity has killed up to seven times as many as Islam. That would be 1.89 *billion* people.
    Your sources please…..

    It’s always a good idea to engage the brain before putting the keyboard into gear….. 🙂

    • Yes, I am glad that you are finally working that out. Please remember to do it.

      It is always good to check with unbiassed authorities, not bigoted ones. And look at more than one source, of course.

      • The link you have is to a flawed and inaccurate organisation. Try something more credible.

  9. sorethumb

     /  July 20, 2018

    Kitty Catkin

  10. A sad indictment of the nasty side of social media in New Zealand.

    That sort of nonsense won’t help the cause of Molyueux and Southern.

    • Gezza

       /  July 20, 2018

      All Auckland Peace Action, The Islamic Federation, & Phil Goff have done is raise their profile right around New Zealand & send probably thousands to their websites, although my bet is most people will watch a few of their videos & thereafter simply ignore them & get on with their lives.

      They won’t get many NZ subscribers because once you’ve heard their views, you know what their views are, what you do & don’t agree with, & you go back to watching the Trump show & whatever else you are usually interested in.

      A tiny few genuine white supremacist type racists here might continue to watch & hang on their every word but those with concerns they prefer to air in less spectacularly polarising ways will be wary of using them as their icons.

      • sorethumb

         /  July 20, 2018

        A tiny few genuine white supremacist type racists here might continue to watch & hang on their every word but those with concerns they prefer to air in less spectacularly polarising ways will be wary of using them as their icons
        …..
        Are you saying only that sort of person would be interested Gezza?
        There are a whole lot of interesting people talking about the same sort of thing
        Jordan Peterson
        Gaad Sad
        Bret Wienstien
        Dave Rubin
        Thomas Sowel
        peter Hitchens
        Douglas Murray
        Charles Murrray
        Aero Magazine
        Quillette Magazine
        Sam Harris
        Johnathon Haidt
        Stephan Pinker
        Mark Stein
        Black Pigeon
        Iconoclast
        Sargon of Akkad
        http://intellectualdark.website/

        • Gezza

           /  July 20, 2018

          Yes I know, and some of them are worth listening to, on some topics, & know what they are talking about, & are careful to be precise, & some of them are repeaters & interpreters of what others say, & show little understanding of the detail of what they’te talking about. Molyneux is the one I don’t like. It’s not that I don’t agree with some of what he says, it’s how he peppers his 90 minute soliloquies with misinformation & weaves it into his narratives.

        • Corky

           /  July 20, 2018

          Mark Steyn was one of the originals. On Islam, I rate him No1, for his uncanny knack of extrapolation.

          • Gezza

             /  July 20, 2018

            Steyn or Stein? I’ll check him out.

            • Corky

               /  July 20, 2018

              Steyn … If we are talking of the same person.

            • Gezza

               /  July 20, 2018

              Steyn looks like the one thumbsta means. His spelling’s a bit imaginative sometimes.

              Steyn’s described as a conservative author & political commentator. I’ll see what trouble he’s got himself into.

    • sorethumb

       /  July 20, 2018

      False Flag? or pretty dumb. Surely the NF know not to shoot themselves in the foot.
      ?

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  July 20, 2018

        Hideously dumb seems most likely, sorethumb.

        • sorethumb

           /  July 20, 2018

          They make themselves Exhibit Number One.

        • Gezza

           /  July 20, 2018

          Anything involving Valerie Morse, given her history, I’m inclined not take at face value.

    • Corky

       /  July 20, 2018

      ”Auckland Peace Action will organise a non-violent anti-racist action against any public event of these two fascists. We will not be cowered by your threats of violence. ”

      Bullshit, they wont be able to contain themselves. However, the Right needs to be careful. They need to remember the media will always focus on the Right should violence break out.

      Again, these two speakers should call protesters out. They will be booed into silence. All they need to do is hack it for 5 minutes. Let the liberals crack on. Then walk off. The damage will have been done.

  11. wooden goat

     /  July 20, 2018

    “We will not be cowered by your threats of violence. ”

    Uh…. *what* “threats of violence”?

    As for fascism – isn’t it “fascist” to want to close down free speech?

    Why is it that leftist countries and groups – whether it be the former German Democratic Republic, the Democratic Republic of North Korea or the Auckland Peace Action group – always have names that are the *opposite* of what they preach?

    Do the APA people like “human rights” and do they realise that Islam (which the duo will almost certainly mention) breaks every “human right” you can think of?

    • As does the US.

      The right to a fair trial (which doesn’t mean being shot dead by trigger-happy cops)

      The right to freedom of expression ( a joke in a country where works of art like The Naked Maja are removed from universities and the Venus de Milo is considered to be obscene….and where the President invokes violence towards hecklers)

      The right to not be tortured

      There are many states which still have the death penalty

      This does not mean that all American violate human rights, any more than all Muslims do.

    • Did you not read it?

      “In a fist fight, we Proud Boys of NZ will fuck you cunt up and i’ll smash Valerie Morse myself”.

      “That bitch needs to suck out of a straw for a month while in ICU.”

      http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/violent-threats-made-against-peace-group-opposing-visit-of-controversial-canadian-pair/

      That’s quite disgraceful don’t you think?

      • sorethumb

         /  July 20, 2018

        What a load of BS. The Far Right Activists. Where does that place the National Front (Far – Far Right)?
        “A group opposing the New Zealand visit by” Valerie of Te Urerwera Training camp and ANZAC Day flag burning.

        It never stops.

  12. wooden goat

     /  July 20, 2018

    Kitty Catkin – “Yes, I am glad that you are finally working that out. Please remember to do it.”

    Oh, I do it all the time…. 🙂 I have the facts on my side (see below).

    “It is always good to check with unbiassed authorities, not bigoted ones. ”
    Ouch – the *Quran* is “bigoted”! ( Actually, yes, it is, but it is certainly also an authority on Islam. The *only* authority, along with the hadiths and Sira (Mohammed’s biography. ).

    “And look at more than one source, of course.”
    Absolutely agreed! Quran, hadiths Sira – that is the three authorities (and *only* authorities) on Islam.
    – w.g.

  13. wooden goat

     /  July 20, 2018

    Kitty Catkin – “The link you have is to a flawed and inaccurate organisation. Try something more credible.”

    So the figures are inaccurate? Please tell us which ones and what the actual figures are (and the sources for those figures).
    “Flawed and inaccurate organisation” doesn’t cut it, sorry.

  14. wooden goat

     /  July 20, 2018

    P.G. – No, I hadn’t seen that and yes, that is repugnant as all threats of violence are.

    I was meaning threats of violence *by Southern and Molyneux* – that probably wasn’t clear and I apologise. 🙂

  15. wooden goat

     /  July 20, 2018

    Apologies for monopolising this thread (and for the somewhat-heated language that I’ve used).
    I’ll take a break for a few hours and let others have their say…. 🙂

  16. Seabird

     /  July 20, 2018

    So, before Phil Goff’s banning of Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux from Auckland City venues I had never heard of these people. I presume this would be the same for many Kiwis. Since this, what they stand for has gone viral through the media. I don’t think it matters if you are on the left or right side of politics, saying these people are banned because they are alt right or whatever is wrong. As the quote goes,something like ” I may not believe what you are saying, but i will defend to the death your right to say it”
    Lauren Southern recently released a video on the plight of white South African Farmers. I have just watched it, and it is truly frighting what these people are going through with many murders and assaults. Please watch and draw your own conclusions.

    • PartisanZ

       /  July 21, 2018

      Oh Seabird, yes, it’s truly despicable what the Blacks are doing in South Africa … or whatever the various places in ‘South Africa’ were and are named by them in their own languages …

      And after being treated SO WELL by the Whites for 200 – 300 years!

      • Gezza

         /  July 21, 2018

        Well it is actually despicable. It’s despicable when any racial group effectively ignores or condones the gruesome murders of members of another group. Or sny murders. And this murdering of isolated white farmers has been happening in South Africa. It’s either wrong or it’s right. I’m not into moral relativism. It’s wrong.