Nation: James Shaw on climate change progress

This morning on NewsHub Nation James Shaw fronts up to report progress on consultation on climate change and the net zero carbon bill.

Climate Change Minister James Shaw says the independent climate change commission will be charged with making the big decisions about what areas NZ prioritises in terms of emissions

There have been 15,000 submissions on the zero carbon bill – Shaw says it’s going to take a bit of time to go through them

Shaw not willing to make any big calls on agriculture – kicking it back to that independent commission.

Shaw said he has a goal of every vehicle being net zero emissions by 2023. Far out!

Making older higher emission vehicles more expensive? He really avoids answering this by diverting to alternatives like public transport.

80%-90% of the new vehicles purchased in NZ are company fleet vehicles. James Shaw says that’s one of the big targets in terms of transitioning to more electric vehicles.

Shaw avoided addressing that. And also – where is all the electricity going to come from for electric vehicles?

So will there be incentives to companies etc going electric? James Shaw keeping mum on that.

Shaw says the Government will be working with National on the zero carbon bill. He’s hopeful there will be bipartisan support for a way forwar.

A lot of unanswered questions on this, which is a bit alarming considering the radical changes that will be necessary to come close to achieving goals.

Can we hit 90% of our cars being electric within 30 years?! James Shaw says NZers tend to hold on to their cars for a long time. I own a 1995 Toyota Corolla.

70 Comments

  1. David

     /  July 21, 2018

    A nice big hydro electric scheme on the Waikato River should be in the planning stages right now, imagine a massive renewable project in the heart of the NI to charge all those emissions smashing vehicles. Very exciting.

    • chrism56

       /  July 21, 2018

      David – other than a low dam at Huka Falls and an even smaller one at Nga Awa Purua, there is nowhere left on the Waikato to dam.
      Increased demand will mean burning more gas and coal – it will be the only reliable source of electricity generation that gets through the consent process. OCGTs are the cheapest form of new builds for NZ – at least if you want electricity there when you flick the switch.

      Don’t bother putting a submission form in – there are no free choice options. It is “do you want to be hit with a big stick or a little stick” stuff

      • David

         /  July 21, 2018

        The sad thing is that the Greens will on the one hand stop any hydro electric scheme while legislating for a huge increase in electricity consumption via electric cars, trouble with the left is its all great ideas but no thought as to how it will get done or work.

  2. Zedd

     /  July 21, 2018

    Mr Shaw was hesitant to commit to anything.. pending a review.. BUT at least this Govt. are looking at it seriously, not just looking for excuses to stick with the status quo; after 9 loooooong years of that B-S 😦

    • Grimm

       /  July 21, 2018

      So is he “hesitant to commit to anything” or “looking at it seriously”?

      Have his mother’s not told him what the plan is yet?

  3. wooden goat

     /  July 21, 2018

    The “dirty little secret” of the so-called “climate change” conferences is out –
    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/another-climate-alarmist-admits-real-motive-behind-warming-scare/

    Quote – “We have been told now for almost three decades that man has to change his ways or his fossil-fuel emissions will scorch Earth with catastrophic warming. Scientists, politicians and activists have maintained the narrative that their concern is only about caring for our planet and its inhabitants. But this is simply not true. The narrative is a ruse. They are after something entirely different.

    If they were honest, the climate alarmists would admit that they are not working feverishly to hold down global temperatures — they would acknowledge that they are instead consumed with the goal of holding down capitalism and establishing a global welfare state.

    Have doubts? Then listen to the words of former United Nations climate official Ottmar Edenhofer:

    “One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole,” said Edenhofer, who co-chaired the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change working group on Mitigation of Climate Change from 2008 to 2015.

    So what is the goal of environmental policy?

    “We redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy,” said Edenhofer.

    For those who want to believe that maybe Edenhofer just misspoke and doesn’t really mean that, consider that a little more than five years ago he also said that “the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world’s resources will be negotiated.”

    Mad as they are, Edenhofer’s comments are nevertheless consistent with other alarmists who have spilled the movement’s dirty secret. Last year, Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change, made a similar statement.

    “This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution,” she said in anticipation of last year’s Paris climate summit.”
    – end quote

  4. Griff

     /  July 21, 2018

    Oh look all on red and kea on the same comment thread .
    Why dont you two do a submission ?
    I an sure they would appreciate the comic relief.

    • David

       /  July 21, 2018

      What a bloody stupid thing to say from Shaw, if we meet our targets the whole country will be poorer and it will make not one jot of difference to the planet and he compares that to the internet which has revolutionized the world.
      Deluded fool shouldnt be allowed anywhere near a government.

    • NOEL

       /  July 21, 2018

      change New Zealand as much as the arrival of the internet did – and for the better

      Yeah right. Once the Internet was manipulated from it’s altruistic values I’m not sure it has been completely for the better.

    • chrism56

       /  July 22, 2018

      One thing you didn’t pick up on< PG< is that Shaw wants all fossil fuel powered cars gone in 5 years time."
      Shaw said he has a goal of every vehicle being net zero emissions by 2023. "
      That means total replacement of the entire vehicle fleet in NZ. It isn't just no new sales, which would have turned us into the Cuba of the South Pacific, but them totally replaced. How much would that cost? We could pay for it by dairy exports – oh that's right, the Greens don't like dairying. And how much would all the thermal and hydro power stations (Oh, the Greens don't like them either) and infrastructure cost? And how many of the poor that the Greens care so much about will be left without a vehicle?
      The Minister is a waste of oxygen. I suspect once his constituency base realizes that their nice new Volvo Remuera tractor is worthless, there will be a reality shock – probably the dole queue in 2020.

    • Corky

       /  July 22, 2018

      Crap. What happens if the majority of countries aren’t meeting, or aren’t interested in meeting their climate targets?

      Talk about meaningless and deluded virtue signalling.

      This guy needs to trade his synthetic meat in for real beef with added hormones. Hopefully he will grow a pair.

  5. chrism56

     /  July 21, 2018

    Shaw’s goal of every vehicle being emissions free in 5 years time shows his naivety. There are no heavy trucks you can buy that are electric and they make up over half the emissions.
    But he has to make a stand. They will be gone in two years.

  6. chrism56

     /  July 21, 2018

    As usual, Griff, you didn’t read what I wrote. You cannot buy these trucks.

    • Griff

       /  July 21, 2018

      Rofl
      You can.
      Delivery might take a while.
      There are many more.
      Even some all ready operating here commercially for more than one firm.
      As usual you have no idea and make claims you cant back instead rely on bullshite.
      Hows the math going ?
      Worked out why a paper from 2012 has not got the latest record in it yet?.
      ROFL
      What a proven halfwit.

    • chrism56

       /  July 21, 2018

      Really Griff back into the teenage girl and projection I see.
      https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/23/teslas-electric-semi-truck-starts-at-150000-reservations-now-live/
      Teslas not available for sale until 2019, but they said the Tesla 3 would be available a lot sooner than it was and the company will probably have gone belly up by then
      Daimlers won’t be available for sale until 2021. And they are fairly confident that tela won’t be able to dliver the range they promise.
      https://www.businessinsider.com.au/daimler-unveils-electric-truck-to-compete-with-tesla-semi-2018-6?r=US&IR=T
      Nor does Engadget
      https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/29/tesla-semi-electric-truck-dhl-order/

      Have you figured if SE Greenland is above 80°N?

      • Griff

         /  July 21, 2018

        As I said you have no idea .
        http://en.byd.com/usa/truck/
        But ya money down
        http://en.byd.com/usa/order/
        Of course you would buy direct from china not their USA or Canadian factory’s
        Worked out how to count yet ?
        Here is a hint
        2018 is AFTER 2012
        And the even better point
        Your claim that best was unreliable.
        The data sets that give Greenland warmer in the thirty’s are ever worse according to your linked paper .
        See thats what happens when you get your information from crank blogs.
        They know their audience are stupid so dont care about lying to them ‘all the bloody time .
        ROFLMAO
        Oh and all on red
        I posted two graphs of the aortic.
        One was for 65 north.

        Who mentioned Tesla?
        Freight liner is a 2019 model ,Daimler is 2020, Volvo is 2019, daf is 2020, cumming have not given a date yet but will not be far behind wrightspeed are already building conversion kits .
        As well dfl are building their own and will release them to market once they have built out their fleet

  7. chrism56

     /  July 22, 2018

    You still cannot read your own articles.
    The BMW trucks have a range of 160km and take 3-4 hours to charge, https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0276762EN/electric-trucks-for-bmw-group-plant-munich:-100-electric-clean-and-quiet-–-bmw-group-ars-altmann-ag-and-scherm-group-put-two-new-e-trucks-into-service?language=en
    The Freightliner EM2 isn’t a full size truck so can’t take a 40 foot container and they only expect 30 units delivered this year
    http://www.thedrive.com/tech/21403/freightliner-unveils-ecascadia-and-em2-electric-trucks
    Daimler was 2021 for actual production runs, according to Daimler
    The Volvo is only a 16 tonne truck.
    https://www.volvogroup.com/en-en/news/2018/apr/news-2879838.html
    As many of the linehaul trucks on the road do 20 hours a day and that is like Auckland Wellington return – electric trucks are useless. The Logging trucks do about less hours but use a lot more power to go anywhere.

    Go back to what you are good at like telling us how steam ejectors work.

    • Grimm

       /  July 22, 2018

      I’ll paraphrase his reponse for you.

      ROFL, bullshite,

      (epic tldr copy and paste from wiki)

      halfwit, roflmao.

      • Griff

         /  July 22, 2018

        Yes Grimm I dont just make up shite like you do and a few hundred words take someone who reads without running their fingers along the page a few moments.

        You idiots are amusing as fuck When you show how much of a fantasy world you live in..

    • Griff

       /  July 22, 2018

      ROFL
      What a load of gibbering and the usual silly hand waving.
      You said no heavy electric trucks.
      You are now shifting the goal posts to no electric trucks that can do 1200km in 20 hours hauling a full load . The trailer needs to do 1200km not the tractor unit .
      <blockquote<As many of the linehaul trucks

      I was driving line haul before you were wearing pants. Less than five percent of the heavy trucks on our road are doing AK to WEL or similar distance straight.
      Most heavy trucks on the roads are doing delivery runs of 200 km or less of continuous driving . They can and will be charged when they load and unload en route or at either end .
      Railways are actually more economic to freight long distance consolidated loads like 40′ boxes.

      This is available to buy today.
      http://en.byd.com/usa/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/8tt_redesign6-23-18.
      Some Trucks and buses from the same manufacturer are already on the roads here.
      Being from china they are already right hand drive so only need minor change to pass our road laws.

  8. chrism56

     /  July 22, 2018

    Go back to facebook Grff – Heavy trucks are those 30 tonne or more – they comprise the majority of our transport fleet.
    To recharge a truck in the 30 minutes turnaround needs a 3-400kW supply – how many places have that?

  9. chrism56

     /  July 22, 2018

    You certainly get around Griff – In this post driving long haul trucks (I have had my license 50 years and have all the classes (1-6 with FRW) as well, so that is another thing you are wrong about) yet a previous post, it was your stationary engine drivers cert at a dairy factory. Your real name isn’t Walter Mitty, is it?

    • Griff

       /  July 22, 2018

      Oh dear math fail again.
      I think you need to go back to primary school
      Here is a hint 30 tonnes is less than 105,000 lbs 47.7 tonnes
      Oh I know you did not read the link just relied on hand waving .
      http://en.byd.com/usa/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/8tt_redesign6-23-18.pdf

      Now you say it has to fully charge in 30 minutes opps goal post shift again.

      You said no heavy truck.
      Now its heavy truck @ 30tonnes that can do 1200km a day and fully charge in 30 minutes.

      Sufficient capacity is available in every single industrial/shopping area in the country to run a 400kw load. Its the capacity of the circuit to about 30 modern houses. Fuck I can do it here out in the wops with the line that runs across the bottom of my section.
      Move the goal posts every time you are proven wrong then claim you have won a point
      ,
      Pigeon chess.

      We are entering a new wold
      People like you will be ignored for the uninformed Luddites clinging to a lost past that they are .

      ROFL …….Its really funny to see you spin around like a loon .

      • David

         /  July 22, 2018

        “Sufficient capacity is available in every single industrial/shopping area in the country to run a 400kw load. ”

        Complete fantasy.

        “Its the capacity of the circuit to about 30 modern houses. ”

        Nice little lie you hid in there. There is a big difference between connected capacity and the actual drawn load and the ability to supply it.

        “Fuck I can do it here out in the wops with the line that runs across the bottom of my section.”

        How about you price up getting it installed, then you can recharge your fleet of electric cars super fast. I’m kind of surprised you have not already done this, why haven’t you?

        “We are entering a new wold
        People like you will be ignored for the uninformed Luddites clinging to a lost past that they are .”

        Maybe the world will change to completely electric vehicles, but the idea you are going to replace 100+ years of infrastructure and equipment in a few years is laughable. The price incentives are simply not strong enough.

        One electric vehicles are cheaper and better, then change to start to accelerate. It will not happen before that.

  10. chrism56

     /  July 22, 2018

    No Walter you fail again. YOU said they could recharge when they unload. That normally takes maybe 15 minutes so I was generous and gave it half an hour.
    I said heavy trucks in the top post. Go back and read it. I used a similar definition to Road Transport Forum where they see the limit as 25.8t but go up to the 50 tonners.
    https://www.rtfnz.co.nz/new-zealand-road-transport/new-zealands-truck-fleet/
    Another fail.
    With regards power supply -look at, for example, supermarkets. The truck recharging is additional load. Are they going to shut down the supermarket so trucks can recharge? If you look, most supermarkets have at most 100kVA cabling running to them. So they would have to dig up a trench right back to their power supply point to run the additional power supply. And good luck on rapid recharging the truck at home.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  July 22, 2018

      If they want to fast recharge trucks they’ll have to containerize batteries and swap them in and out.

    • Griff

       /  July 22, 2018

      So they would have to dig up a trench right back to their power supply point to run the additional power supply.
      And what is your point ? You have to install a cable .
      Gee no one has ever done that before .
      You dont even need to dig trenches you thrust the cable.
      Tesla has installed such circuits 3×120 capacity in NZ as has wellington transport.
      In some locations overseas Tesla is installing 25x120kw. Porsche is rolling out 350kw car charging in Europe and America right now . If you are constrained by local capacity you add enough battery’s to store the required difference . This would require only the missing fraction of the trucks capacity not container sized.

      Again you keep adding layers of complexity rather than admit your no heavy truck for sale was crap.
      A year or two at most multiple large manufactures will be selling heavy trucks suitable for what we will require in NZ to switch our road freight transport to electric. A 47.7 tonne truck is commercially available now that I have linked to twice.

      The high voltage mains for the local district runs though the bottom of my property on power poles .Its actually slightly closer to my house than the buried 3 phase feed to the block at the bottom of my drive is.
      Add Transformer /charger and yes I could run a 400kw charger on my property.

      • chrism56

         /  July 22, 2018

        As before, you have to learn to read what you claim is happening, rather than be just the dumb Google idiot you consistently show you are.
        “The two new high-power electric car chargers are found at the company’s new Berlin office, which opened last Friday, according to Electrek. The 800-volt chargers can deliver power at up to 350 kilowatts, according to the carmaker—though it’s currently restricted to 50–150 kW, Electrek says, as no existing electric cars are capable of guzzling power at the higher wattage. ”
        And if you charge a battery at the fast charge rate, how do you get rid of the 40-50kW of waste heat? Lithium fires are real fun to watch.

        • Griff

           /  July 22, 2018

          RFOL
          More idiotic Luddite rubbish
          How much of the combustion energy does the average petrol car radiate as waste heat?
          About 75%.
          As the power of a car is measured net how much heat does a 100kw car dispose of ?
          Full noise 300kw an hour .Gee my corolla is going to explode if I nail it….
          Round trip for a lithium battery is somewhere between 80 and 90 % not much heat dumped at all compared to a petrol car.

          Gee its magic.=math to a Luddite .

          Porsche plans to deploy 500 of its ultra-fast chargers across the United States by the end of 2019,
          http://www.thedrive.com/tech/20151/porsche-to-install-500-ultra-fast-chargers-in-u-s-by-end-of-2019
          Why?
          Taycan 2019 model year 350kw charging.

          Ultra E, a project born out of an alliance between European carmakers, utilities and other companies, announced today the deployment of 25 new charging station for electric vehicles along the trans-European transport network (TEN-T).
          The group is referring to the stations as “Ultra-Fast-Charging” and claims that they have a power output of “up to 350 kW” or more than twice the capacity of the currently most powerful DC fast-chargers available.

          Allego announced a second even bigger network in the works called MEGA-E, which will consist of 322 Ultra-fast chargers (up to 350 kW) and 27 smart charging hubs throughout 20 European countries.

          Ionity, the new ‘ultra-fast’ joint electric car charging network by BMW, Mercedes, Ford and Volkswagen, is slowly starting to take shape in Europe and now we get to see the map of their planned stations for the first time.
          They are planning 400 stations with a capacity of up to 350 kW across Europe by 2020. They started work on the first 20 stations last year and they plan to hit a total of 100 stations this year.

      • Griff

         /  July 22, 2018

        Oh and chriss here is some ideas for you to get an adult to explain slowly at a speed suitable for your intellect.
        Street lights are going LED .
        That represents a considerable saving in power.
        How much power did it take to run those street lights every night and what could you do with the surplus grid capacity ?
        I know use it to run chargers.

        • chrism56

           /  July 22, 2018

          Ok Walter – another one of your many jobs that you have done is it?

  11. chrism56

     /  July 22, 2018

    Just when we thought Walter had plumbed the depths of his lack of knowledge, he astounds us by going even lower. Go and read the EWR and look up the ratings on the distribution network.

    • Griff

       /  July 22, 2018

      Yess
      I know
      gibber gibber it cant be done on planet Luddite.
      Meantime out here in the real world
      Its already been done.
      There is a 450kw charger installed and running reef st suburban island bay.
      Must be magic like Maths but even harder for you to cope with.

      • Griff

         /  July 22, 2018

        Look at that ..
        Reality gets down ticked .
        Cant have fact get in the way of RWNJ feelz can we kids.

        • Gezza

           /  July 22, 2018

          I think abuse gets downticked.

          • Griff

             /  July 22, 2018

            I have been doing this for almost a decade with the same idiots.
            They down tick facts as a mater of course.
            The abuse only starts when I get nonsense like crissm and his.
            no trucks
            ‘no trucks that can do 1200 km ‘
            no trucks that can do 1200 km and charge in 30 minutes
            no trucks that can do 1200 km charge in 30 minutes and carry 30 tonnes .
            shift the goal posts and claim you won.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  July 22, 2018

              Best if abuse isn’t started at all and certainly best directed at arguments rather than persons.

            • chrism56

               /  July 22, 2018

              As Griff constantly demonstrates, anyone who doesn’t agree with him gets called a right wing nut job or worse. I bet when he has his mates round for drinks, its just him and his dog there. And the dog would rather be chasing rabbits.

            • Gezza

               /  July 22, 2018

              I just don’t my time and energy debating with idiots, no matter what their IQ level is.

            • Gezza

               /  July 22, 2018

              🙄 * waste 😀

            • Griff

               /  July 22, 2018

              Yess
              Reading fringe nutter blogs and posting shite from them is the give away.
              We know you do when you think quoting Steve McIntyre’s arm waving or a Willie Soon paper is a useful reference .

      • chrism56

         /  July 22, 2018

        Yet again Walter, you prove even idiots can use Google without comprehension. Do you know why the supercharger is only at Island Bay? Because that is the only place with a dedicated substation from the trolley bus days. And how much charge is it putting in the batteries? A lot less than the 60kWh says from simple maths – about 25kWh from what my sources tell me.
        As one source puts it:”The battery must be designed to accept an ultra-fast charge and must be in good condition. Li-ion can be designed for a fast charge of 10-minutes or so but the specific energy of such a cell will be low. Ultra-fast charging only applies during the first charge phase. The charge current should be lowered after the battery reaches 70 percent state-of-charge (SoC). All cells in the pack must be balanced and have ultra-low resistance. Aging cells often diverge in capacity and resistance, causing mismatch and undue stress on weaker cells.”
        I will leave it to you to find out why so many of the buses on #1 bus route are running late or just not running at all.

        • Griff

           /  July 22, 2018

          25kWh from what my sources tell me.
          I see a unattributed quote from an anonymous commenter on the internet.

          Not worth a spit into the wind my friend.

          Oh and chiss I know about batteries and state of charge .
          I do charge 14,4kw worth daily on a system I built myself you know .

          They will have a BMS that looks after charge equalizing and should also inform the operators of any cells that are suspect.

          Now unless you have some actual facts …..

  12. chrism56

     /  July 22, 2018

    Alright Mr know it all, why do the new buses weight 18.5 tonne, when the diesels they replace weighed 13 tonne. Why is their range only a nominal 150km – in reality 120km and a tow home?

    • Griff

       /  July 22, 2018

      What is the distance between island bay and wellington central ?
      How many trips is that with a real world 120km range?
      The answer exposes the bullshite implicit in your comment above.

      Different cell chemistry have different property’s.
      The buses use Prismatic Cells thats some claim are less dense than cylindrical cells.
      I dont know which chemistry they are using but would guess that the high charge rate means lower energy density so more weight per KWH. The company that made the cells introduced a new chemistry recently but I doupt it is the NZ buses as it is too new to market.
      http://www.microvast.com/index.php/about

      • chrism56

         /  July 22, 2018

        There have been a lot of articles about the Wellington bus problems in the Dom Post but they don’t make it to Stuff. If you had any skills, you would compare newspapers to their websites, but that is beyond you. And you continue to show your stupidity. The Island Bay bus route goes right through the city to Johnsonville. So the bus should do two return trips. However, because they can’t get enough charge in, they can’t get through the day without having to be taken off the route for a slow charge..
        You are arm waving with your Google search techniques again Walter. Pretty picture but what is the relevance to Wellington buses?
        The bus batteries are those specifically designed for repeated rapid charge, nominally 2000 cycles. That means they have a very low energy density, less than 50Wh/kg which puts them down with lead acids in your pretty graph. To get the range, they have over 3 tonne of batteries onboard. The buses are now so heavy now they are breaking up the Wellington streets. That is on Stuff.
        That low energy density is why they are useless for trucks – half the truck weight would be batteries.

      • David

         /  July 22, 2018

        This is funny;

        http://www.microvast.com/index.php/news/info/105

        Our buses can go up hills!

        • chrism56

           /  July 22, 2018

          You mean they are not Rolls Canardlies. I am shocked!

  13. chrism56

     /  July 22, 2018

    And in a situation worth of Griff, according to this article, the bus has only half the range that the manufacturer says it does
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12007956
    And they weigh 18 tonne for a thirtyfive seater
    https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2018/04/16/electric-buses-auckland/

    • Griff

       /  July 22, 2018

      New Zealand’s first fully battery-powered electric bus hits the road in Auckland today, servicing AUT’s Northcote and Manukau campuses.

      The 35-seater bus becomes part of AUT’s fleet in a joint initiative between AUT, the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA) and the bus company, Tranzit Group.

      As well as providing sustainable transport for hundreds of students every day, the bus will operate as a mobile research tool providing provide data to understand the economics and performance of electric buses on New Zealand roads.

      The bus has 12 battery packs and a driving range of 180km.

      EECA and Tranzit Group have paid $738,500 to cover the cost of upskilling engineers so the country’s first electric bus could be developed and built locally, and of the charging infrastructure.

      Kiwi Bus Builders in Tauranga built the body of the bus, and the electric engines and chassis were built by Times Electric Group in China.

      Tranzit Group’s managing director Paul Snelgrove said the project was an important step in the evolution of bus transport in New Zealand.

      “There are more than 9500 large diesel buses in New Zealand and, to replace these with a greener fleet, we need to demonstrate the performance and viability of electric buses,” he said.
      New electric bus employed March 2018 for AUT ( Auckland Universoity of Technology ) servicing the North-City campus and South-City campus bus routes picture supplied
      New electric bus employed March 2018 for AUT ( Auckland Universoity of Technology ) servicing the North-City campus and South-City campus bus routes picture supplied

      As well as providing a sustainable transport option, AUT will be researching the potential impact of electric buses on the electricity grid and gathering other key information. This includes energy consumption, battery capacity, battery charging rate, duration and number of trips, mileage, average speed, charging duration and electricity consumption, regeneration and braking data.
      In a nod to AUT’s commitment to sustainability, the bus will be free to use for students and staff the first two weeks.
      …………

      This week will see the first two 100% battery powered electric buses for public transport hit the streets in Auckland on the City Link route. They’re not quite the first ones overall though as AUT launched one as a shuttle between their campuses last month. The buses have been bought by Auckland Transport and are also funded by the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA).

      The buses are the electric version of the ones currently used on the City Link, and a number of other NZ Bus routes. Other than some changes to the styling, there are a couple of useful to the buses. The rear door is slightly larger which will make it easier for people getting off, however for some reason, AT have only put one HOP card reader at the back door. Having a second reader would make alighting much faster. There is also a bit more standing space thanks to the folding seats, although I wonder if they couldn’t have been extended all the way to the rear door. Most people using the City Link are doing very short trips, such as from Wynyard to Britomart, so having more people standing isn’t to much of an issue.

      Sadly, I think these will be the only buses of their kind we see in Auckland for a while. With the new bus network rolling out and aligned with new long term contracts, the bus companies have had to invest in a lot of new buses to meet ATs criteria. With much newer fleets, it means it could be quite some time before those companies need to invest in new buses again.

      Here’s the press release

      The future is electric and Auckland Transport is driving into the future with its first electric buses.

      The two buses are a trial funded by the Government’s Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA) and Auckland Transport (AT).

      Auckland Mayor Phil Goff and Associate Transport Minister Julie Anne Genter have launched the buses which will operate on the City Link service from next week.

      Mr Goff says, “Last year I pledged with mayors from around the world to work towards making our streets fossil-fuel free. As part of the declaration I committed Auckland to procure only zero-emission buses by 2025. Today marks a positive step towards achieving that goal.

      “Compared to diesel buses, the new e-buses will be cleaner, quieter and provide our passengers with a better experience. Modern electric buses can have a range of more than 200 km with one charge so the shorter runs on the hilly city loop are a great testing ground.

      “Auckland is serious about leading the response to climate change in New Zealand and internationally. Transport contributes over a third of greenhouse gas emissions in Auckland and this trial supports our efforts to lower emissions in our city,” says Mr Goff.

      Ms Genter says electric buses are great news for people working, visiting, and living in the city. They’re better for the climate, they’re quieter, and keep the air we breathe clean.

      “It’s great to see trials like this, which will help local and central government learn and plan for large scale deployment of zero emissions buses.”

      Mr Goff says, “I want council to lead the way on reducing transport emissions by finding efficiencies, shrinking our fleet numbers and progressively replacing petrol and diesel vehicles with EVs.”.

      Auckland Transport Chief Executive Shane Ellison says the two buses will help AT develop a Zero Emission Bus Roadmap for Auckland. “These buses will help us accurately estimate whether electric buses meet the needs of our customers, what routes they can operate on and, of course, whether they’re commercially viable.

      Mr Ellison says these are exciting times for electric vehicle technology. “In January, we replaced some of our fleet vehicles with electric cars. These 20 cars are performing well and are just the beginning of the change to EVs for Auckland Transport.”

      The supplier of the buses is Alexander Dennis/BYD. Tony Moore, General Manager of ADL New Zealand says the buses for the trial are based on the Transport for London e-buses. “We are working with progressive transport authorities, cities and enlightened political leaders around the world to introduce, emission-free transport solutions.

      “The Mayor has made it clear that Auckland intends to lead the way in the drive towards a greener, cleaner environment and the introduction of these buses is important in that journey.”

      Auckland Transport was awarded $500,000 from the EECA Low Emission Vehicles Contestable Fund towards one of the buses and charging infrastructure. Auckland Transport’s contribution towards the cost of the buses is $1.21m.

      EECA is also funding the installation of 60 EV charging stations at Auckland Transport parking facilities.

      Battery powered electric buses are on their way to other cities too. Wellington is getting 10 electric double deckers in the middle of the year (having just ripped out it’s trolley buses) and Tauranga is getting five electric buses as part of an overhaul of it’s bus network at the end of the year.

      Does it say what you claim?
      Feel free to back your crap for once .
      The AK buses are not the same as the wellington ones.
      BYD makes its own battery’s.
      So its more gibbering yet again

      .

  14. Griff

     /  July 22, 2018

    Asks why I posted a graph then references it to make the same point.
    fuck me
    Different chemistry’s have different property’s. The buses are apparently optimized for fast charging hence lose in other ways .

    Tesla is claiming more than 500mls from a charge for their truck with their new cells .
    yip 30% profit on the 3, top selling electric car. dominating the sales charts in its class against all comers ,400,000 orders and counting .
    And going backwupt ….

    I have read every online comment I can find in stuff or the Dom post
    No reference to problems with the electric buses .

    120 km real world range about 62 km for two round trips.
    Do get some help with basic math.

    • Gerrit

       /  July 22, 2018

      Weight is a concern for the Wellington and GWDC.

      “The exact cost of fixing the roads, which are expected to deteriorate faster under the 18-tonne weight of the capital’s new double-deckers, is still being calculated. But it is already causing friction between the city and regional councils over who should pay.”

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/98431614/doubledecker-damage-could-cost-wellington-ratepayers-seven-figures-to-fix

      Much like the Auckland bendy buses had a weight problems and needed special permission to be used on Auckland Roads (and hence could not be use don out of Auckland trips), the electric buses in Wellington also need special over weight permits.

      “The city council confirmed it allowed the regional council to issue heavy permits for the double-deckers a year ago.”

      Not all rosy with the electric buses in Wellington.

  15. chrism56

     /  July 22, 2018

    There you go again a potty mouth teenage girl. All your Facebook friends abandon you did they?
    So you read all the comments on Stuff – well you didn’t read what I wrote did you. As a simple example, the front page of the Dom Post has an article headlined “Capital Bus Drivers to Strike” written by Damian George. . Find that on Stuff

    • Griff

       /  July 22, 2018

      http://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/the-dominion-post/20180721/281517931905381
      Nothing about electric buses just the strike

      Post a cut and paste for your claims or its yet more gibbering .
      Because I am sick of trying to confirm your fantasy world
      Nothing you say pans out .
      You are full of shite .

      • chrism56

         /  July 22, 2018

        There you go again – Walter, a schoolgirl tanty – You still can’t read as you didn’t find the article on Stuff. There are lots of articles in the Dom Post that don’t make stuff of even the web.

  16. Griff

     /  July 22, 2018

    More pigeon chess.
    Slowly .
    Your gibbering has nothing to back it. Until you provide proof you are just a fantasist .
    Your claim about the AK buses is wrong because they are not from the same company as The Wellington ones. Funny that what you accused me of you just did yet again.
    You are full of shite like a four year old toddler.
    I find that very funny.

  17. Griff

     /  July 22, 2018

    Wellington ratepayers could be stung with a “seven figure” repair bill over years to fix the city’s roads when double-decker commuter buses hit the streets next year.
    Some existing buses, which weigh between 12 and 13 tonnes, were already causing damage to Wellington’s roads when they sat idle, heating up the tar seal and causing ridges, Free said
    Tranzit managing director Paul Snelgrove said the buses would be 10.5 metres long and would weigh 18,500 kilograms when fully laden with a maximum of 83 passengers.

    Yet again no proof just conjecture.
    Could depending on route is not have.
    The diesels are already doing damage.

    And
    We also note the link trashes crissm’s fantasy , “they weigh 18 tonne for a thirtyfive seater” ,about passenger numbers and weight .How surprising.
    .

    • chrism56

       /  July 23, 2018

      MY, my ,my, [use correct pseudonym -PG]. Your own arrogance caused you a massive big time fail. If you actually bothered reading the links, in the comments there was another link to the specs of the Auckland buses. Here they are:
      Electric power consumption: less than 100kWh/60mins
      Acceleration: 0–50 km/h in 20s
      Top speed: 96 km/h
      Normal charge: 6h for full charge
      Fast charge: 3h for full charge
      Overnight charging: 60 kW maximum power for 5h full charge
      Range: 155 miles (249 km) (186 miles (299 km) according to some reports)
      Length*Width*Height: 12,000mm*2,550mm*3,200mm
      Standard seats: 31+1 (31 for passengers and 1 for driver)
      Weight: 18,000 kg
      the price for a BYD ebus was €380,000 Euros, €100,000 more than a comparable diesel bus.

      As someone wrote, you are full of shite like a four year old toddler, so go back to your My Little Ponies Facebook, and next time, ask mummy if you can use the computer.

  18. Alan Wilkinson

     /  July 22, 2018

    The economics of electric buses seem shaky and they are being funded by large subsidies courtesy of the ever-generous taxpayer. Hence these introductions still being described as experiments five years after their first introductions overseas.

    • Griff

       /  July 22, 2018

      For Shenzhen and many Chinese cities, policy incentives such as national and local subsidies play a major role in closing the cost gap between e-buses and conventional diesel buses. Before 2016, a 12-meter e-bus in Shenzhen received a $150,000 government subsidy, more than half of the vehicle’s price.

      Yet some studies show that subsidies may not be necessary to make e-buses cost-competitive with diesel buses. According to a study conducted by the World Bank and Global Environment Facility,2 the lifecycle cost of e-buses in Shenzhen as of 2016 (including procurement, energy and maintenance costs over an eight-year period)3 is $375,457, almost the same as a diesel bus’s lifetime cost of $342,855. In short, while e-buses in Shenzhen have a high upfront cost, their operation and maintenance costs are significantly lower than those of diesel buses.

      The price difference is mostly made up of battery cost.

      https://cleantechnica.com/2017/12/11/batteries-keep-getting-cheaper/
      Dec 11, 2017 – The average price of a lithium-ion battery pack is down to $209/kilowatt-hour and the prices are set to fall below $100/kWh by 2025, according to a Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) survey.

      There is also a value of not having to suck bus diesel fumes in towns.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  July 22, 2018

        Yes, the life cycle and performance of batteries under real operational conditions will determine the economics. So long as that technology keeps changing rapidly the outcomes will be uncertain.

        • Griff

           /  July 22, 2018

          Note Alan the world bank is a reputable source.
          They say life time cost is near parity in 2016.
          The technology is on a growth curve and the cost is declining.
          At this point electric buses are probably cost neutral.
          Five years it will be cheaper .
          once that happens …

          The same process will happen with cars.
          At the moment they are expensive to purchase and are not economic for private use brought new . In NZ we buy mostly second hand imports hence get other country’s already paid subsidy at no cost to NZ taxpayers.
          Five years they will be the only logical choice .

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  July 22, 2018

          I would want to check the WB calculation for hidden subsidies such as carbon credits for operation not offset by battery manufacture and disposal costs.

          • Griff

             /  July 22, 2018

            As far as I know china being a command economy does not use any form of carbon taxes as a market signal.

            • Gerrit

               /  July 23, 2018

              “The upfront cost of electric buses can be more than double that of traditional ones, and just as the country subsidized subways, China also helped fund Shenzhen’s pursuit of better buses. According to the World Resource Institute, the city received $150,000 in subsidy per bus prior to 2016—more than half the cost of each one”.

              https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/05/how-china-charged-into-the-electric-bus-revolution/559571/

              “In Shenzhen, the partnership has resulted in charging stations built along bus routes, according to WRI, and coordinated charging times during which buses fully charge overnight, when electricity demand (and prices) are lower. Watson cautioned, though, that what works for Shenzhen may not necessarily work for other cities. “Every city needs to do their own analysis making sure they choose the right charging infrastructure,” she said.”.

              Note the need for an integrated battery charging system.

              No question is raised on how “clean” the electricity is as used in Shenzhen.

              In China, not very clean at all. 70% is still generated from coal.

              https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2018/02/16/china-electricity-stats-for-2017/

              So Shenzhen streets may be worthily of praise “clean and green”, but somewhere a peasant in a rural area is smothered in coal dust.

    • Blazer

       /  July 23, 2018

      well A,l the present non electric bus fleets used now are heavily subsidised by the …taxpayer.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  July 23, 2018

        Yes, and electric cost more at present.