A triumph of intolerance over intolerance

I don’t like what Stefan Molyneux and Lauren Southern stand for or do – they preach intolerance and promote division. I don’t think they would do any good coming and speaking in New Zealand.

Their on-off-on visit has been controversial, fueled by their own publicity to an extent but far more by opponents and critics who didn’t want them to speak here. Free speech is often overridden by  people intolerant of different views.

S&M were scheduled to speak at an event tonight, with ticket prices originally advertised ranging in price from $99 to $749. They claim they sold out for tonight’s event.

The venue was kept secret until this afternoon to supposedly avoid planned disruption, but that generated yet more publicity.

The venue was announced – the Powerstation in Mt Eden, Auckland. Before Helen Clark had a chance to complain others were far quicker off the mark with threats – the venue owner puled the plug on it.

Those who had organised protests cheered and claimed a win.

If this is the end result it looks like a triumph of intolerance over intolerance. I’m not sure which side of the opposing circuses is the worst.

Free speech is at risk of becoming a quaint historical ideal. It is becoming the survival of the loudest.

Of course people who feel strongly about negative things others might say should themselves speak up, but shutting others up is as problematic as it is futile.

Whether S&M speak anywhere tonight they have made themselves much better known than they ever would have without first Phil Goff and then their new-found critics stoking the fires of their frenzy.

But it is unlikely to be over yet. Tonight we are likely to see more intolerance preached, shouted, imposed, and there’s a planned TV interview in the weekend to keep the publicity alive and kicking.

Is Paddy about to be blacklisted or white anted?

129 Comments

  1. PartisanZ

     /  August 3, 2018

    Sounds to me more like Freedom of Speech has been trumped by Freedom of Assembly & Protest …

    We don’t want to lose that important ‘democratic’ right, do we?

    Surely they could speak on the street or in a public domain somewhere?

    But the fact is it’s a commercial venture, pretty much pure and simple … If they REALLY WANTED TO they’d find a forum … like Don Brash did at Orewa … (pronounced Or-Reh-Wah) …

    • artcroft

       /  August 3, 2018

      Yeah right! Freedom to assemble and speak only if you preach a Green/Left gospel.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 3, 2018

        Freedom of speech and assembly begets the right to peacefully protest Arty, no matter what line you’re pushing … I favour all three freedoms …

        In this case its more a matter of the courage of their convictions IMHO.

        I reckon their main conviction is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

        Why did they announce the venue at all?

        Protesters may have flocked to Orewa in 2004 if they’d known ‘The Don’ was going to deliver his ‘Pakeha Indigeneity’ speech …

        • Gezza

           /  August 3, 2018

          Why did they announce the venue at all?

          They did it by email only to those who booked tickets. So they’d know where to go.

    • They must have known that they were not welcome.

      The people who were opposed to their abhorrrent views are varied, as far as I can see, but united in their detestation of the unlovely duo.

      I can’t feel sorry that the people who owned the venue exercised their right to not allow these creeps to use their premises to spread their bile and dissension.

      • They may have the right to spout their abhorrent views, but the rest of us have the right to say that these views are unacceptable here. They invited themselves and it’s been made obvious that they are unwelcome. End of story.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 3, 2018

        As far as I can see the bile and dissension flow has been entirely in the opposite direction. Or perhaps you can cite some counter evidence?

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 3, 2018

          You must know their views.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 3, 2018

            Why must I? I haven’t gone to their websites and apart from Gezza I haven’t read anything by anyone who impresses me as doing anything but repeating second hand hit pieces. That includes you.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 3, 2018

              Look them up. Of course people have to repeat things secondhand unless they want to make a link, which is pointless when it’s easy to look these people up and read their own words.

            • The video of her trying to stop the rescue of drowning refugees speaks volumes.

          • MaureenW

             /  August 3, 2018

            You clearly don’t. I’ve watched a number of their presentations, none were abhorrent. In fact I find people like yourself, ignorantly spouting off more about of a concern.

            • Gezza

               /  August 3, 2018

              You need to watch a few more of Molyneux’s. They’re fecking long. Make sure you’ve got the time. Watch for the little lies he slips in.

            • MaureenW

               /  August 3, 2018

              I sometimes get bored with the long vids and move on to something else.
              Probably does slip in lies, I’m not that enamoured that I’d much care. But offensive or abhorrent are not words I’d use to describe either speaker. I find the labels placed on these two, by ignoramuses trying to shut them down, more abhorrent.

            • Gezza

               /  August 3, 2018

              Well, I find chronic liars abhorrent. And he is one. He was described somewhere in something I read as a cult leader & I’d put him broadly in that category. He misleads when he has no need to, except to enhance his credibility among the denser segment of his audience (mostly young white Americans, &, if you listen to his phone-in “counselling” sessions, really dim ones, painful to listen to).

              He describes himself constantly as a philosopher, it’s part of his act – but he’s deliberately misappropriating the term as its most classically understood sense. He’s no philosopher. No-one who has studied philosophy would put him in that category.

            • MaureenW

               /  August 3, 2018

              You went from little lies to chronic liar – quite some movement there. Haven’t listened to the phone-ins, just don’t mind some of the topics he covers – they’re worthwhile and should be covered

            • Gezza

               /  August 3, 2018

              You went from little lies to chronic liar –
              He tells lies frequently when you listen to many of his videos, but they’re often buried in his hasty little ‘aside’ comments. So he’s a chronic liar. My error was calling them little. Lies are lies. It’s just something he does. Blurs the lines between facts & opinion & and then – let me just check that one – bingo. It’s not true & easily found out.,

              So yes, I agree that he also talks about issues that are very valid, but he’s untrustworthy.

          • sorethumb

             /  August 3, 2018

            Where’s that quote where Kitty Catkin asys “God gave israel to the Jews. It’s as simple as that”?

          • sorethumb

             /  August 3, 2018

            Kitty Catkin / July 21, 2018
            God gave Israel to the Jews, it’s that simple.

            Why people would grudge Jews reclaiming such a tiny part of the world is a mystery to me.

            https://yournz.org/2018/07/21/israel-declares-itself-nation-state-of-the-jewish-people/
            The African hordes can pile into Europe though.

    • Trevors_elbow

       /  August 4, 2018

      Parti a hecklers veto and a threat of violence is what you are dressing up as freedom of assembly and the enshrined right to protest.

      It’s a poorly fitting suit of clothes.

      What Morse and the antifa inspired mobs who back her are really doing is bullying. And eventual voices on the right will form their own mobs to counterattack this fascist posturing by the hard Left. It will be the 1930s all over again.. and attitudes will harden.. there will more slippage to extremism as free speech is curtailed.

      I dont want see that. Authoritarians are a blight on all political philosophy be they Marxist inspired, Confucius Legalists or right wing Fascist inspired..

      Instead of applauding ‘your side’ for winning… maybe you should be applying your speech to decrying those who wont let anyone but their side from being heard

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 4, 2018

        @Trevors_elbow – ” …a hecklers veto and a threat of violence is what you are dressing up as freedom of assembly and the enshrined right to protest.”

        Hecklers veto … What’s that? Threat of violence? Prove it …?

        “What Morse and the antifa inspired mobs who back her are really doing is bullying. And eventually voices on the right will form their own mobs to counterattack this fascist posturing by the hard Left.”

        Presumably, those “voices on the Right” are the same “free thinkers” sorethumb refers to? “Eventually” the poor misunderstood Righties’ patience will run out and they’ll form mobs … Who the fuck are you trying to kid …?

        Have you ever considered the possibility the Antifa inspired mobs (in Europe) formed to counterattack fascist posturing [and violence] by the Far Right?

        You’re correct about “authoritarians” so maybe you should stop trying to be one and telling me I’m applauding “my side” and applying my speech to decrying “those who wont let anyone but their side from being heard” … That’s not what I’m doing at all …

        None of these fuckwit individuals and none of these fuckwit groups is “my side” …

        • Trevors_elbow

           /  August 4, 2018

          Triggered much?

          Not followed Morse and cos tactics and utterances? But rush to back their methods…

          They are your side Parti … the side you advocate for relentlessly: collectivists as a coveralls… they are just the more insane members of your nutty little side of politics

          ; )

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 4, 2018

            Nope … Not triggered at all. You?

            I’ve not followed Morse. First I’ve seen or heard of her was the video on here early this morning … So … No.

            Nor am I “backing their methods” … But if they didn’t appear first … If Rightie violent extremists appeared first … that means you back their methods … ?

            The fact I’m not on your side simply DOES NOT MEAN I’m on their side …

            That’s primary-school age thinking that is …

  2. duperez

     /  August 3, 2018

    I just saw Stefan Molyneux speaking for the first time. He did his impersonation of a slimy weasel. Quite well too I thought. (I think he should be able to speak in New Zealand. I think this is the first time I have commented to anyone about him/them.)

  3. Tipene

     /  August 3, 2018

    Debate about what constitutes, free speech, intolerance, hate speech, alt-right, alt-left, fascist et al has been done to death regarding this event, affirming over and over again that “those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion , still”.

    I tell you what’s got my attention:

    1/ Members of a group of centre-right “Conservatives” who were instrumental in eviscerating the opportunity of Conservative representation in Parliament a few years back, are now decrying the absence of a Conservative voice to stand up for them in Parliament on this issue;

    2/ That when faced with a few dozen ANTIFA-affiliated protesters, the same centre-right Conservative group can’t summon ANY meaningfully successful strategy to combat them on the front line – I mean, NOTHING.

    3/ I wonder when the centre-right Conservative movement are going to realise that they can’t continue to have their political agenda set for them, that they have to actually set their own?

    4/ The organisers of the event (pre-cancellation) implored attendees to “not stoop to the level of the trolls – don’t feed them” – in other words, tread meekly into the wolves den, and hope like anything that you don’t get bitten. Cowardice in the face of threat is submission by default A more useful message would have been “you are entitled to reasonably defend yourself. The law relating to self-defence is that “Everyone is justified in using, in the defence of himself or another, such force as, in the circumstances as he believes them to be, it is reasonable to use.” (Section 48 of the Crimes Act 1961.) So, if you find the need to defend yourself against someone at the event – do so, as the law is on your side”.

    5/ An open-air venue would have been a better option. That way, the ANTIFA-affiliated would have very quickly been overwhelmed by the sheer number of event attendees, and the authorities couldn’t have kicked attendees out of a public space for simply engaging in a peaceful assembly and to listen to a talk.

    • It was obvious any venue was going to come under significant attack for allowing them to use it.

    • sorethumb

       /  August 3, 2018

      1. Real estate interests climbed on the multicultural band wagon as nationalists were a direct threat to profits.

    • artcroft

       /  August 3, 2018

      Very true, S and M have more publicity than they could have hoped for. The Left got to virtual signal (it never mattered what S and M had to say. It was all about the excitement of a protest). Everyone can consider themselves a winner today.Tomorrow? who knows.

      • Sunny

         /  August 3, 2018

        Interesting that Think Inc. is hosting a provocative debate with conservative Douglas Murray,author of the Strange Death of Europe. at Aotea centre. And this event about race and immigrationhas been given a totally free pass. Why? One group has been called nazis and alt -right one has been totally ignored. The think inc event is being held at Aotea Centre. Well there may be some difference in the events and the speakers it is broadly the same subjects. But one gets called Nazis, alt-right etc and one is accepted without question. There is no policy just random mobbing.

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 3, 2018

      @adamsmith1922 – “Now S & M are heroes to their followers …”

      They were already heroes to their followers …

      There’s approximately 1100 of them in NZ, roughly the same number as KFL, NZCPR, Hobson’s Pledge, Treatygate and all the rest … and almost certainly exactly the same individuals in every case …

      The only question worth asking is: Do they have any NEW followers?

      • Gezza

         /  August 3, 2018

        If they watched the Gower interview they probably have a few more interested in watching some of Molyneux’s YouTube videos but that probably won’t score him many more followers.

        They’d have blown in & blown out again with no one the wiser without all this shit. Their audience in this country would have been limited to the usual suspects. Southern’s mainly White Pride & anti-Islam anyway. Not really topics that grab the attention of most kiwis who just get on with their lives.

  4. Zedd

     /  August 3, 2018

    I agree with freedom of speech.. but finding any place to do it, could be the problem ?

    Whats the name of that ‘Rich white Men only; Tories club’ ??

  5. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 3, 2018

    I still don’t know what they wanted to say that is so threatening to the loony Left. TVNZ had no interest in telling me that tonight.

    • LS tried to prevent the rescue of people who were drowning. She was opposed to saving the lives of refugees to the extent that she went out and tried to stop the people who were saving them from doing so.

      • -D

         /  August 3, 2018

        Kitty, her position is that those people smugglers are a racket that actually exploits the desperation of the people wanting to improve their economic prospects. In a round about way I think she is probably correct… the cycle needs to be broken.

        You may believe her, or not, but why that should be considered “abhorrent” escapes me.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 4, 2018

          Letting people drown is abhorrent to me, it may not be to you,

      • Missy

         /  August 4, 2018

        Kitty, I am sure most people in Britain wished she had stopped the rescue of one of the illegal migrants, Salman Abedi.

        Rescued by the Royal Navy, and within 3 years he had murdered 22 people whilst targeting children at a pop concert.

        And most of those so called refugees who are on those boats are not refugees, they are predominantly economic migrants, and it is estimated up to 5% are jihadists.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 4, 2018

          I imagine that many people also wished that the IRA members who killed more than the extreme Islamists had been stopped,

          She was quite happy to let people drown, even any small children who happened to be there, so she is morally as bad as people who actually commit murder.

  6. Tipene

     /  August 3, 2018

    Patrick Gower just got owned and schooled all in the same interview: the guy is so epistomologically dim, he can’t even correctly recognise a straw-man argument (clue, Paddy: there wasn’t one):

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/08/exclusive-patrick-gower-takes-on-lauren-southern-and-stefan-molyneux.html

    Talk about bringing a knife to a gunfight……………

  7. Corky

     /  August 3, 2018

    What happened in the space of a hour to turn the manager of the Powerstation from a enthusiastic supporter of the event into a scared coward who wanted to cancel. ?

    It is claimed the manager didn’t know the content of the speech to be given. That’s crap. No
    one is that naive ( are they?).

    If the Police had something to do with this cancellation they should be sued as a matter of course.

    I don’t know which was worse…Gower, or the Chap on One News. I’ll go with the reporter on One News. Absolutely pig ignorant.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 3, 2018

      I don’t think the 1Ewes story was ignorant, I think it was deliberately slanted and well on the way to earning a “Fake News” sticker.

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 3, 2018

      Corky, how did the news of the actual venue get out? Maybe just that was all it took to spook the manager?

      Follow the money … Who stands to gain from the venue being known and attracting protesters?

      The Police may have had something to do with it … by extrapolation of their Australian counterpart’s antics in charging S&M for security and public safety at the venue … once the venue was known?

      • Corky

         /  August 3, 2018

        Good points. There are a few possibilities.

        • Blazer

           /  August 4, 2018

          The Power Station hosts musicians.
          They are a very liberal minded,empathetic segment of society.
          Think of Woodstock,Lennon etc…if they decided not to utilise the Power Station as a venue because of their personal beliefs…the owner might find himself with a …busted arse.
          Bit like sanctions.

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 4, 2018

            Happens in all sorts of business all the time I imagine? Nothing too malignant about that is there? [Well, other than ordinary common-and-garden human malignancy] …

            Unless the ‘Long March’ encompasses the music industry as well?

            Rock’n’Roll was a carefully planned Left-Wing Social Transformation Project, the ultimate mass-indoctrination, formulated back in ’33 at that little Cafe in Berlin …

            Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley specially bred and groomed for the occasion …

            Would have happened sooner if it wasn’t for Wagner … WW2 … and then the Korean War … [What genre of music went with the Korean War?] …

            • saywhat

               /  August 6, 2018

              woah slow down there tin-foil. youre gonna have to back up those rock n roll claims there

      • Tipene

         /  August 3, 2018

        The venue was announced by email to all ticket-holders at 1pm today.

        • Corky

           /  August 3, 2018

          That may explain it. A liberal plant with a ticket who had no intention of attending.

          • Gezza

             /  August 3, 2018

            I have no doubt of that – 1ewes reported the venue was made known to the anti-free speechers as soon as it was emailed out.

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 3, 2018

            Might have been an open-minded liberal Corky, who would have attended, but also exercised their freedom of speech by announcing the venue to the public?

            Alternatively, it was a hard-core liberal terrorist ‘sleeper’ who has spent their whole life being indoctrinated, radicalized and trained as a liberal ‘secret agent’ mole, like their parents and grandparents were before them, as part of the ‘Long March through Institutions’ … and who was finally given a clandestine assignment to buy an S&M ticket and reveal the venue to the world …?

            • Corky

               /  August 3, 2018

              Yes, like that Commie shelia who has been spying on the Yanks for 10 years. Commies and socialists aren’t good on short term planning; long term works better for them.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 3, 2018

              Like the ‘undercover informants’ and ‘agents’ the Police planted inside anti-tour protest groups back in 1981 …?

            • Corky

               /  August 3, 2018

              Yes.

    • Tipene

       /  August 3, 2018

      What happened? Hmmmmm……….if I was a betting man, here are some possibilities that could result in someone such as the venue owner becoming, as Southern describes it, “terrified”:

      a/ A threat to level the venue to the ground via violent and dramatic means (e.g. a bomb);

      b/ A direct threat on the life or lives of the venue owner / owners and / or their families;

      c/ A fiscal threat to the business that could have ended the business trading (e.g. immediate recall of a loan, withdrawal of a sponsor; cessation of a partnership; or to blacklist the Powerstation as a booking venue of preference, re-directing acts elsewhere);

      d/ Something else that would uniquely terrify the owners, most likeley known by only a small bunch of people who have an intimate knowledge of the owners and the business.

      • Tipene

         /  August 3, 2018

        All of these examples would be reasonably constituted as acts of terrorism.

        • PartisanZ

           /  August 3, 2018

          All of these examples could be reasonably construed as acts of fairly extreme paranoia ….

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 3, 2018

            Sorry … All of these examples could be reasonably construed as evidence of fairly extreme paranoia …

          • Gezza

             /  August 3, 2018

            No, it IS the kind of thing that extremists do.

            It was interesting that another prominent item on 1ewes tonite was about the Aussie footy ref who is finishing up because he & his family received death threats from Tongans after he made a controversial call sgainst Tonga v the Brits. Never ever happened to him before anywhere in all his years of reffing and the occasional wrong call. The police contacted him to warn him about the threats & tell him to get home. A spokesman from the Tongan community was on criticising these members of his community & saying this is not Tongan culture. I have heard others say, in NZ, in places in Auckland – it is. And there was I think a Sunday feature on needing to do something about domestic violence levels in Pasifika communities. I didn’t watch it because I find Sunday too magazine-style but maybe I should.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 4, 2018

              If they’re Lefty extremists, the Rightie extremists taught them well …

          • Gezza

             /  August 4, 2018

            No, lefty extremists & rightie extremists behave the same way. Rallies, violence, destroying property. Threatening & attacking opponents. Look at Weimar Germany, & antifa supporters vs EDL supporters etc. Plenty of examples. It’s cos they’re extremists. Equal intolerance.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 3, 2018

      Innocuous you would have thought?

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 3, 2018

      Tyranny of the majority RULES … OK?

    • Gezza

       /  August 3, 2018

      Oh, yes I can see why the 1ewes reporter said they were ignorant about our bicultural society – where Molyneux having done a quick sort of wikipedia read or something displays his ignorance of the significance of the Treaty of Waitangi & the settlement process.

      Well, probably not so much his ignorance of it, but his slithering around it, to jump straight to his libertarian views & his views that White, English-speaking European culture should be dominant where Europeans dominate on the grounds of numbers alone.

      He assumes that Maori language is surviving here because schools are forcing pupils to learn it. He says parents should decide what children are taught. This of course doesn’t work if the predominant group in an area decide they should be taught Creationism instead of science, or Maori things only, or Tongan or Samoan things only or Chinese things only.

      This is why I say Molyneux is a dodgy character. He sounds to the uninformed (like the low IQ white trash people who listen to him uncritically) as if he’s looked into things deeply & he’s giving an accurate description but it’s often wrong, & very likely deliberately so. But he slips this sort of thing in amongst other valid points & issues.

      It’s no good sending someone who hasn’t studied him to interview him unless they know where to stop him & correct him & then prevent from slithering around that. He does the Gish Gallop style of interview.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 4, 2018

        S&M spotted an opening in the ‘YouTube & Speaking Circuit’ market and went for it IMHO …

        • Gezza

           /  August 4, 2018

          Absoltutely. They’ve monetised their sites & targeted their niche markets. Molyneux’s still developing his product lines & targeting new market segments. Now they’re branching out into other fields. Kardashians in the political market basically.

  8. artcroft

     /  August 3, 2018

    Paddy is utterly woeful in this interview. He clearly doesn’t understand free speech.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/08/livestream-patrick-gower-interviews-lauren-southern-and-stefan-molyneux.html

    • Gezza

       /  August 3, 2018

      I was just about to post that link. I think you’d have to agree they walked all over Patrick. Especially Molyneux. He actually did well telling him – “hang on, you asked me a question, now you won’t let me answer because you don’t like what I’m saying” & the pair pointing out that he’s accusing them of things they don’t believe & haven’t said.

      They are correct that the fact some people might be offended by something they said or did doesn’t mean that therefore they mustn’t say or do these things, & that they are happy to debate their views.

      Gower made a prat of himself as usual.

      • Tipene

         /  August 3, 2018

        Patrick Gower – NZ’s answer to Cathy Newman!

    • Tipene

       /  August 3, 2018

      Post-interview, Gower looked and sounded as if he had been smacked around the gills. It will be months before he realises just how out of his depth he was. Towards the end of the interview, Southern and Molyneux were toying with him the way a cat does with a mouse, before eating the mouse.

    • Corky

       /  August 3, 2018

      He’s just been prattling on ‘The Project’. Only saw bits of it. The audience and other panel members seemed to be hanging off his every word of woe. The audience gave him rapturous applause.

    • Patricia

       /  August 3, 2018

      OMG!!!Paddy Gower – dumb as a bloody doorknob!!! What an embarrassment!

  9. Tipene

     /  August 3, 2018

    In influencing the cancellation of the event, the cancellation has now become the story, which has now resulted in a nationwide audience.

    Thank you, ANTIFA morons……………….

  10. Kabull

     /  August 3, 2018

    And will we now hear protests from the ‘Right’ against the speaking tours of Hanoi Jane and Chelsea Manning? I bet not.

    • Missy

       /  August 4, 2018

      Definitely not against Jane Fonda, I don’t agree with everything she stands for but I would never say she has no right to express her views.

      Chelsea Manning is a different story, she gave away (didn’t even sell) national classified information, she has no right to gain financially from that decision, especially as she took an oath to protect that very information. Some of the information provided by Manning included names of informants and put their lives at risk. It was not only illegal, but irresponsible and life threatening.

      • Blazer

         /  August 4, 2018

        so you are pissed Manning didn’t sell the information revealing the inhuman practices of the ‘good guys’….very good.

  11. PartisanZ

     /  August 3, 2018

    I support S&M’s right to freedom of speech … and my own … and everybody else’s …

    They’re monoculturalists really, aren’t they …? Or predomiculturalists*?

    They’re saying “we White people can’t accommodate other cultures, only White culture” [whatever that is?].

    I mean … when you think about it … only White people can say the things they say …

    Leastwise in the former colonies of Canada, US, Australia and NZ … maybe the UK too?

    Someone please point me to an example of an indigenous or ‘First Nations’ person saying this kind of stuff …? “We only want one culture for everyone … Ours!”

    Or, perhaps more correctly, “We only want one culture for everyone … Yours!”

    I don’t believe Molyneux can counter biculturalism – as specified in Te Tiriti o Waitangi – with an argument about rampant individualism representing “freedom” …

    Rampant individualism isn’t a culture …

    • Corky

       /  August 3, 2018

      ”Someone please point me to an example of an indigenous or ‘First Nations’ person saying this kind of stuff …? “We only want one culture for everyone … Ours!”

      Maori.

      ”Rampant individualism isn’t a culture …”

      No, it’s a sacred treasure that separates us from other cultures, especially backward collectivist cultures who think like a hive.

      Apologies if I have told this story before. I knew an astrologer who disliked Islander clients.
      I thought he meant in a racist way. But, no, he explained to me that they had no sense of ”I.”

      They would ask: ”what is going to happen to us.’ He could not make himself understood that the astrological charts he drew up pertained to one person.

      Of course Island economic growth and progress speaks for itself.

      • Gezza

         /  August 3, 2018

        Apologies if I have told this story before. I knew an astrologer who disliked Islander clients. I thought he meant in a racist way. But, no, he explained to me that they had no sense of ”I.”

        That sounds like bullshit to me. Either from him or from you.

        • Gezza

           /  August 3, 2018

          Given that astrology is bullshit anyway, I’ll be generous & say it’s b/s from him.

        • Corky

           /  August 3, 2018

          You are getting Kitties disease. No bullshit. You can’t be so blind as to see how Island folk live. Ever seen a single Islander start some endevour individually? Not many come to mind. Beatrice Faumuina ( discus) is the only one that comes straight to my mind.

          As to what you know about astrology…that would be zero..zilch. You aren’t really qualified to offer an informed opinion.

          • Gezza

             /  August 3, 2018

            Studied astrology intensely for 3 years Einstein.

            • Corky

               /  August 3, 2018

              Now I’m calling bullshit. You neither have the time nor the temperament.
              You are a materialist. Einstein as far as a know believed in God. So he would be a poor choice of moniker for you to use. What about Tesla..oh, he believed in God too. I’ll settle for Sherlock. He believed in logical deduction that no doubt crossed over on occasions into a psychic ability unbeknown to him.

            • Gezza

               /  August 3, 2018

              Einstein was an agnostic. So am I. I have said this here several times.
              Studying Astrology doesn’t require any kind of temperament, only interest.
              Dunno about Tesla & God. Brilliant, but also a bit of a crank. Doesn’t interest me. He still interests other cranks.
              I believe you should quit while I’m ahead.
              You look stupid enuf already.

            • Gezza

               /  August 3, 2018

              I’ll settle for Sherlock. He believed in logical deduction that no doubt crossed over on occasions into a psychic ability unbeknown to him.

              Ok. Now I know you’re just taking the piss.

            • Blazer

               /  August 4, 2018

              How many times to have to read Love Signs to call it…study! 😉

            • Gezza

               /  August 4, 2018

              Gawd. Better off checking out your daily horoscope. It’s about as useful. But they just give astrology a bad name. 😉

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 3, 2018

        “Maori” …………… utter BULLSHIT …

        Maori are saying they want to preserve their culture in the face of Pakeha dominance, and in relationship with Pakeha culture …

        The dreadful backwardness of Island culture must have been how Tonga got the name “The Friendly Isles” and why so many Europeans wanted to give up White dominance and live among the Tongan people …

        Rampant individualists think like a HORNET’S NEST of rampant individualists …

        • sorethumb

           /  August 3, 2018

          Maori have been overtaken by Asians. The government didn’t listen to Maori concerns over immigration. The government pursued multiculturalism over biculturalism, it is now trying to lump Pakeha with the multicultures and have a stronger Maori identity to compensate. The government have professional Maori who will squawk on behalf of the government: :”we love multiculturalism” while getting a fat salary.

        • Corky

           /  August 3, 2018

          ”Maori are saying they want to preserve their culture in the face of Pakeha dominance, and in relationship with Pakeha culture …”

          Yeah, that’s the official line. However, many Maori wouldn’t give a stuff if a disease wiped whitey out. Maybe the lack of a Winz office , but not much else.

          Behind the scenes they seethe with angst and hate. Have a look at that spectacle outside parliament yesterday. And that was just between Maori. Imagine what Pakeha would get?

          ”Rampant individualists think like a HORNET’S NEST of rampant individualists …”

          Take that away and you may as well kiss goodbye to whats left of Western culture. But that has always been the aim of the Left, hasn’t it, Parti….to make us the impotent prats we have become.

          • sorethumb

             /  August 3, 2018

            Actually I have dealings with a couple of Maori enterprises. They are surly (bad attitude) thanks to decades of listening to a toxic narrative.

            • sorethumb

               /  August 3, 2018

              I think that follow your celeb and learn te reo will backfire, people are getting pretty peed off [actually I only speak for me but it wouldn’t surprise me and the managerial state won’t tell me]

    • sorethumb

       /  August 3, 2018

      Diversity: History’s pathway to chaos

      http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0816/hanson082516.php3

  12. sorethumb

     /  August 3, 2018

    Poll: Should far right speakers Stefan Molyneux and Lauren Southern have been allowed into New Zealand?
    79%
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2018/08/poll-should-far-right-speakers-stefan-molyneux-and-lauren-southern-have-been-allowed-into-new-zealand.html

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 3, 2018

      Well that’s good … since no-one prevented them coming in … did they?

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 3, 2018

        Poll: Do you agree with the views of Molyneux and Southern?

        0.03% … that same 1100 people again … who also like ‘Hobson’s Pledge’ on FaceAche …

        hppt: PartisanZ best guesstimate …

        • sorethumb

           /  August 3, 2018

          So the poll is not accurate because the majority agree with you ( because you know what’s what)?

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 4, 2018

            No … Your Newshub poll’s accurate but the question is irrelevant because they DID come to New Zealand … We were watching them being interviewed in a NZ TV studio, weren’t we?

            • Gezza

               /  August 4, 2018

              You’re right and you’re wrong.

              You’re right that 79% at the time thought they should be allowed in to speak – but that’s not a poll on whether readers agree with their views.

              You’re wrong that 0.03% agree with their views because as far as I’m aware a poll on that question hasn’t been conducted.

  13. sorethumb

     /  August 3, 2018

  14. sorethumb

     /  August 3, 2018

    Multiculturalism and the Politics of Guilt: Toward a Secular Theocracy, by Paul Edward Gottfried -The Mises Review

    Here we arrive at Gottfried’s central point. The managerial state wishes to weaken, if not cripple altogether, any social group not under its control. The favored minorities who benefit from multiculturalism depend entirely on the state for their enhanced position: strengthening them weakens those who might prove recalcitrant to the state’s domination. A majority culture not created by the state is in a position effectively to resist its absolute mastery; hence the state claims that the historically dominant culture is but one of many competing groups, enjoying no privileged status. As a result, civil society loses its independent status and becomes totally subject to the state’s power.

    https://mises.org/library/multiculturalism-and-politics-guilt-toward-secular-theocracy-paul-edward-gottfried

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 4, 2018

      Knowing Mises Institute, as Alan & I do intimately, I wonder what it took to “arrive at Gottfried’s central point”?

      I hate to think! One can only imagine the reams of convoluted intellectualization …

      Here’s a central point for you: If human emotions play their part in politics, why would there NOT BE a “politics of guilt”?

      Just as it might be said there’s a politics of anger, of joy, of shame, of hope, of “business confidence”?

      Gottfried’s thinking, no doubt ‘Swiss School’ in origin, is so full of holes its barely worth commenting on … but I suppose one must …

      “The favored minorities who benefit from multiculturalism depend entirely on the state for their enhanced position: …”

      Patently untrue. There are scores and hundreds of NGOs that work to enhance minorities. Minorities depend partly upon the state because they … partly make up the state …

      ” … strengthening them weakens those who might prove recalcitrant to the state’s domination.”

      Not! There’s barely any correlation between strong minorities and [a] weakened recalcitrant [majority?], let alone any causal connection [causality].

      “A majority culture not created by the state is in a position effectively to resist its absolute mastery; …”

      Utterly irrelevant, since the majority culture creates the state, not the other way around … What the fuck does this dude think a ‘state’ is?

      ” … hence the state claims that the historically dominant culture is but one of many competing groups, enjoying no privileged status”

      Absolute tosh! This is nothing but word-play … Even Switzerland is a state made up of many competing groups. The argument ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE is that the dominant culture DOES ENJOY privileged status ….

      “As a result, civil society loses its independent status and becomes totally subject to the state’s power.”

      As a result of WHAT? In anything other than a Totalitarian state, where civil society [citizens] loses ALL independent status, civil societies [citizens] have varies degrees of independent status which constitute …. THE STATE!

  15. A civilised society would allow its people to listen to this pair and make up their own minds what to think. And it would not allow a bunch of bullying thugs to prevent it. Corky should add these screeching brainwashed ‘Liberal’ Fascists to his list of people that have no sense of individual self – who are just obedient, unthinking mouthpieces for the Islamic hive. GIGO, as the IT types would say.

    People should read more widely and be more critical of what they are told. The NGOs running ‘rescue ships’ across the Mediterranean are witless, self-absorbed pawns being made complete fools of by ruthless people smugglers and Islamic invaders. Even the dim Europeans are finally waking up to what is really going on, and it has nothing to do with refugees. The age-old war is looming again, thanks to the aggressive naivete of ‘Liberals’.

    One would think folk in this country, being able to view from a safe distance the nightmare currently destroying European culture, would learn something from what they are seeing; yet here we are with all the usual suspects aggressively blurting out all the usual emotive and ignorant tripe that got Europe, Scandinavia and Britain into their appalling messes in the first place.

    I believe Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Do these intolerant clowns really believe that aping their idiotic brethren up North will not produce the same disintegration of civil society as it has up there?

    They are indeed so stupid that they don’t even understand the Streisand Effect. Which failure may, ironically, just save us all, given that the Canadians have Youtube channels; which will link to many other sources of free-thinking opinion, which antifa thugs in Auckland won’t be able to shut down.

    • Gezza

       /  August 3, 2018

      I agree these people should be able to have their say & then go. Southern is the more anti-Islam of the two. Molyneux is a different character. I wish Gower had let him finish what he was trying to say about the race differences in IQ tests. I have no idea where he was going with it. Neither does Gower. You can’t refute something you assume someone is going to say. You don’t even know if it’s refutable.

      Just on the illegal immigrants issue, a lot of these illegal migrants from Africa aren’t muslims. They’re travelling from deprived & corrupt countries elsewhere. They’re educated enuf to know there are no prospects for them in their own countries the way things are but not educated enuf to know they can’t all be famous footballers once they get to Europe.

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 4, 2018

      But … but … but … They could have had their say …

      It wasn’t some ethereal thing called ‘society’ that prevented them … It was a few individuals on either side of a largely media manufactured ‘societal’ fault line …

      S&M are “free thinkers”? ……… You’re kidding me, Right?

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 4, 2018

      @thesailor – “One would think folk in this country, being able to view from a safe distance the nightmare currently destroying European culture, would learn something from what they are seeing …”

      My Great-Grandmother said that in 1917 …

      And my Mother said those exact same words in 1943 …

  16. sorethumb

     /  August 3, 2018

    Sondos Alqattan, a Kuwaiti makeup artist with more than 2.3 million followers, faces a backlash after she complained that her Filipino domestic workers would be allowed one day’s leave a week and control over their passports due to new laws in the country
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2018/jul/23/kuwaiti-instagram-influencer-comments-filipino-servants-video

  17. Patzcuaro

     /  August 4, 2018

    But do the Canadians want them back?

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 4, 2018

      Do Australians want Emmerson back?

      • Patzcuaro

         /  August 4, 2018

        We want Emmerson he is a keeper.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  August 4, 2018

          You can keep him, Patz. I’m generous like that. Labour needs a pet Ozzie.

  18. As it appears in isolation I think that’s a pathetic scaremongery thing to say.

    • MaureenW

       /  August 4, 2018

      True though, it was the Islamic Association behind all the fuss over them coming here. And New Zealand dutifully bends over.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  August 4, 2018

        I think it was a little more than just the Islamic Association. Support for them seemed rather soft, nobody was willing to stand up for them and provide a venue

        • Gezza

           /  August 4, 2018

          They only had a very limited appeal to a really tiny group. Most people had never ever heard of them. I only knew of Southern & Peterson – & even then only because of thumbsta constantly pushing their respective barrows here.

          I’d never heard of Molyneux, until this tour blew up.

          At least Peterson approaches those few topics these two also bring him into with a more research-based analysis, & he has I think a sound basis for setting off on his crusade against some of the PC fringe ‘liberal’ extremists who have embedded a host of victim misconceptions in the North American universities & embarked on campaigns of harrassment against any opposing views.

          I’d not heard of Tommy Robinson either until thumbsta & Corky made made me aware of them. Again, zero knowledge of him by the general population is the norm.

      • No, the Islamic Association were one of a number of groups who opposed the visit, and they seem to have backed right off, unlike others.

        • MaureenW

           /  August 4, 2018

          No, the Islamic association was behind trying to prevent them from coming to New Zealand. They made the conversation about hate speech and racism, rather than freedom of speech in a democratic society. Gullible New Zealanders buckled and jumped in to the ruse.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 4, 2018

      An English court has just recognised a Sharia marriage which in the circumstances was the humane thing to do. However it is obviously the bleeding edge of multi-culturalism.

  19. Gezza

     /  August 4, 2018

    One of the more nuanced & balanced assessments of Lauren Southern I have come across.

    What I learnt about the far right from Lauren Southern
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12097931

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 4, 2018

      He is correct to note that cultural differences and preferences are not racism. That is beyond the intellectual capacity of most journalists nowadays unfortunately.

      • Gezza

         /  August 4, 2018

        Correct, although Molyneux seems to like to wander down the racist path. I was disappointed Gower was too thick to let him finish what he was saying about IQ and “blacks”.

  20. Gary Quezet

     /  August 4, 2018

    Definition of a Bigot – a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

    • Gezza

       /  August 4, 2018

      Yes. Southern & Molyneux are bigots, as are those who refuse to let them speak.