Miriama Kamo explains Sunday coverage of Molyneux & Southern

An interview with Stefan Molyneux and Lauren Southern is scheduled to be shown on Sunday tonight (7:30 on TV1).

The controversial alt-right event is cancelled. But the issue remains.
This week SUNDAY examines free speech vs hate speech in NZ

Not surprisingly there is opposition to it going to air, with threats of boycotts (probably form people who don’t usually watch Sunday).

Miriama Kamo did the interview and is fronting it. Some have suggested she shouldn’t have anything to do wit  it. She explains (on Facebook):

There’ve been calls for Sunday to be boycotted this week, because we are airing a story sparked by the alt-right duo Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux. Even before the story airs, we’ve had extensive and quite astonishing commentary about the content of our story, when only a fraction of it has been seen in public.

Put that aside for now. Let’s look on why we’re doing a story. As journalists, it’s our role to examine our society, to canvas a diversity of views, and to reflect who we are and who we want to be. By demanding that we close down debate and discussion on what has been a huge story, we must then ask ‘what else should we ignore, what other views should we suppress, which other stories should we turn away from?’ You may not like what this controversial pair has to say, but it forces us to confront the very core of what free speech and hate speech is all about.

At the heart of much of this furious reaction, is decency. Many people are insulted, offended and disgusted by the views of the Canadian duo. I appreciate that. However, there have also been suggestions that I, as a Māori woman, should not front this episode. I reject that. Our story this week is told by reporter Tania Page, another Māori woman. The notion that we should distance ourselves from this story is patronising. It has dominated the news agenda for over a fortnight. As an experienced journalist and as a Māori woman, I do not need protection. And, if it is seen as some sort of race betrayal, I return to the notion that no-one has seen our story yet – watch it first, and then decide.

But, more importantly, I believe in the right to have a view and to back it vigorously. I believe in protest, so I also believe that when we are confronted by views we cannot accept, it creates a platform upon which we can crystallise and refine our personal position on issues; that we can decide where we fall on the question of free speech, where it starts and ends, and at what point we decide that it’s gone too far. Our opinions and our right to express them is at the heart of the democracy that we all enjoy. And, on Sunday tonight, we canvas a diversity of views.

Watch the story, and let us know what you think.

Good on Miriama for standing firm on this.  It could be an interesting and worthwhile interview.

 

102 Comments

  1. One idiot response to it on Twitter:

    But mostly there is support. Like

    • The boycotters don’t think that it might be a story that exposes the unlovely duo as being the racist, sexist, up themselves bigots that they give the appearance of being.

  2. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 5, 2018

    I’ll wait till it airs before commenting.

    • Ditto. But if Molyneux is as rude and bulldozing as he was on 3, I won’t bother. I learned nothing except that he loves to hear himself speak. It was a monologue as far as I could see,

      • MaureenW

         /  August 5, 2018

        He should take a look at your comments on this blog Kettle, I mean Kitty.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 5, 2018

          That is bloody rude, spiteful and uncalled for. It’s on the level that one would expect from Corky. Mindless, kneejerk attempt to be offensive, God knows who the 10 uptickers are, You and Corky doing it en masse, I suppose.It says far more about you than it does about me. It seems as if you only come here to be unpleasant.

          • Gezza

             /  August 5, 2018

            I nearly posted “Don’t start, Maureen. She might be in the mood”.
            But then I realised it was too late for that, Kitty. 😐

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 5, 2018

              She seems to be someone who thinks that being rude and aggressively offensive is clever.

              It isn’t. It’s a poor substitute for reasoned debate.

            • Gezza

               /  August 5, 2018

              Maur & I only have the occasional chat when I’m in the mood.
              Mostly I’m not in the mood.

          • Corky

             /  August 5, 2018

            Please, give it a rest. Your views about me are well known..well known..well known… Well known. I have done nothing to directly antagonise you. Just ignore me.

            • You have abused, insulted and lied about me. Most people would consider those to be attempts to anatgonise someone. You were barred from YNZ because of abuse and deliberate falsehoods about me.

              How is all that doing nothing to directly antagonise someone ?

              What on earth WOULD you consider to be antagonistic ?

            • Corky

               /  August 5, 2018

              I haven’t lied about you. You purposely seek me out, like on this thread.
              You fill threads up with comments regarding your dislike for me. That’s fine. But, I think everyone has got the message. You can give it a rest now. Instead of being reactive…try being proactive and post something of interest.

            • You have lied about me. You said that I wasn’t a widow. You made snide remarks about my late husband. You made things up about my neighbours and what I supposedly said about them, like the young proffesional couple who were ‘white ferals’. . You invented things about my income and circumstances so that you could then accuse me of inventing them.You have lied about my using racist expressions that I have never used ‘(wetback’ for a Mexican was one; who outside the US would say that ?)

              Your abuse is gratuitous and has no resemblance to reality. There is a difference between that and responding to something. You seem to go out of your way to be offensive and insulting and think yourself clever for doing so.

              Your lies and abuse saw you banned from YNZ for a time. Have you forgotten that ?

          • lurcher1948

             /  August 5, 2018

            Shes from the kiwiblog echo chamber, Kitty you are above the there level

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 5, 2018

              I haven’t heard of them. Thank you.

              I hope that Red and Jess are not minding the weather too much. Let me know via Pete if you compete in the Waikato 🙂

          • MaureenW

             /  August 5, 2018

            It was an innocuous comment, humourous in intent. The bilious tirade that followed is all your handiwork. You perch on this blog accusing others of what you do yourself.

        • lurcher1948

           /  August 5, 2018

          Typical rightwing comment from a Kiwiblog rightwinger MWThis isnt farrars echo chamber be polite its not the nasty Mason clinic rant zone like over there

          • MaureenW

             /  August 5, 2018

            Lurch – I don’t post on Kiwiblog and my comment was polite. I can only presume it was accurate, given the response.

    • PDB

       /  August 5, 2018

      Most of the people up in arms over the duo are just accepting what they are told secondhand as fact so no surprise they are also calling for a boycott of a programme they haven’t seen either.

      I’ve had a look at these two & their views, don’t have any time for them and would never go to see them (they come across as simply opportunists to me) BUT I’ve seen no reason to suggest they are somehow a danger to New Zealand or in any way fit the criteria of ‘hate speech’.

      • Gezza

         /  August 5, 2018

        Agree. They are opportunists.

        • PDB

           /  August 5, 2018

          Not the sort of personality types who would convince many to their way of thinking. I think in large they would simply be preaching to the already converted in this country.

          • Corky

             /  August 5, 2018

            That would be me.

            • Gezza

               /  August 5, 2018

              Have you given them any money?

            • PDB

               /  August 5, 2018

              I don’t even think you were thinking of going were you Corky?

            • Corky

               /  August 5, 2018

              ”I don’t even think you were thinking of going were you Corky?”

              No, I have heard it all before. Besides, for the price of those tickets I would expect at least two musical items and a free feed.

            • There was a free feed if you bought the $749 tickets.

            • Corky

               /  August 5, 2018

              $749 tickets? Hell. thought they were 90 something dollars. It’s reported they sold the venue out. Some people must have boring lives, but a good bank balance.

              I suppose you have to make money while you are relevant. Their career prospects aren’t great unless they enter politics.

            • Gezza

               /  August 5, 2018

              PG advertised their prices & what bang you got for your buck on YNZ beforehand:

              “Tickets:

              $79 general admission to “hear speeches by world leading commentators and justice activists”
              $99 early admission (a few minutes early to get better seats)
              $199 meet & greet ‘strictly limited to 40 people at each event for half an hour backstage access prior to the show’
              $499 VIP meet & greet “10 people will get to spend an extra 15 minutes in the Meet & Greet, plus get a swag of personally signed, awesome merchandise”
              $749 dinner and early admission “opportunity to break bread at an intimate function prior to the main event that evening with not one but two of the most influential Alt Media personalities of our generation””

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 5, 2018

              The scaled price of confirmation bias …

              That “awesome merchandise” would be worth getting hold of though …

              Be valued at mega bucks one day …

            • Corky

               /  August 5, 2018

              You old capitalist, Parti. There is light in that dark soul.

            • Blazer

               /  August 5, 2018

              can’t get over the ticket prices…what a business.

          • Gezza

             /  August 5, 2018

            Absolutely. They love this sort of controversy. They’ve both very successfully monetised it.

            • PDB

               /  August 5, 2018

              If anything Paul Joseph Watson is more interesting.

            • Gezza

               /  August 5, 2018

              He’s a bit intense: something about him I find irritating. Alex Jones is a big fan of Paul’s & vice versa. Alex Jones is a scream. I’d say he’s probably still milking the most out of their shared markets where they all overlap.

    • Gezza

       /  August 5, 2018

      I’ll wait till it airs before commenting.

      Just a small point – but that’s already a comment. 😕

  3. artcroft

     /  August 5, 2018

    A positive and welcome development. Southern and Molyneux may have distasteful views but they have the right to speak. I look forward to the Sunday story and salute Miriama for doing what a good journalist should and investigating so that her audience can make better informed judgements.

    • When Corky said that he was taking a break, & giving YNZ one, I didn’t think that it would only be for one day.

  4. PDB

     /  August 5, 2018

    Thank goodness for the Auckland Peace Action group led by people like ex-US citizen Valerie Morse (who got arrested for burning the NZ flag at an ANZAC dawn service) for upholding core New Zealand values.

  5. Gezza

     /  August 5, 2018

    Bloody good advertising Miriama!

    • Gezza

       /  August 5, 2018

      Who’s NOT going to watch it on Sunday, out of interest.
      I am.

      • Gezza

         /  August 5, 2018

        I’ll bet it gets a major plug on 1ewes at 6 too – on in 8 minutes.

        • Gezza

           /  August 5, 2018

          Nup. Just a standard sort of Sunday promo ad in the first ad break. Gonna be those two & something about some kiwi model shown walking down the catwalk in a revealing outfit somewhere – might interest some sheilas I guess. Hope S&M are up first.

          Q&A got a plug on the news first segment. Main attractions are the US smbassador & Shane Jones.

          Item one was the latest Colmar Brunt poll. Good for Winnie. Not good for Simon, poll taken during the Nat Party conference. Jess did him down bigly. Labour down 1, National steady – NZF up to 5 the election threshold. Poll showed Nats & Act couldn’t form a government if the Greens Labour & NZF are still happy to carry on.

          • Gezza

             /  August 5, 2018

            Oh that second item is about young sheilas now having all sorts of health problems with their boob enhancement jobs. Well, duh

      • Corky

         /  August 5, 2018

        I’ve got popcorn and some weird organic toffee crap. Hope I still have some teeth left in my head after chewing it.

        • Gezza

           /  August 5, 2018

          If you’ve got any crowns might be best to suck on the toffee, not chew it.
          Crowns that would resist a jackhammer to get off tend to surrender without a fight to toffee & minties.

  6. Corky

     /  August 5, 2018

    Not the best when someone as PC as Miriama sees a need to stand up for free speech.
    That she is receiving abuse must be shattering for her cosy worldview. I think Miriama has forgotten not all Maori are nice people. And those liberal white acquaintances who accept her in their group mightn’t be so accommodating now she has strayed outside the accepted norms for that group.

    I wish here the best of luck for those ‘awkward moments’ that’ll follow the screening, even though I personally am not expecting anything in depth. I hope I’m proven wrong.

    Here’s the type of person who seemingly represents a good proportion of non thinking nasty New Zealanders. Given his past, this chap has a cheek.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/08/former-politician-shane-te-pou-confronts-lauren-southern-stefan-molyneux-in-heated-exchange.html

    • PDB

       /  August 5, 2018

      You’d think the duo had painted a picture of the NZ PM lying dead in an alleyway somewhere, called it ‘who killed Jacinda Ardern’, and made an interactive game out of it or something?

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5956416/Art-shock-kills-PM-in-alley

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 5, 2018

        It’s only vile when the Left don’t do it.

      • Corky

         /  August 5, 2018

        Great insight into the Leftie mindset, isn’t it. So many Freudian slips here Nigal Latta would need a whole TV series to explain them all.

        I would start with plain jealousy and envy…and that incessant need to bring a rich prick down a peg or two,

        • phantom snowflake

           /  August 5, 2018

          Here you go Corky; Nigel Latta explains it for you:

          Stefan Molyneux
          Verified account @StefanMolyneux
          It turns out that you cannot give a speech about free speech in New Zealand. More details to follow.

          Nigel Latta
          ‏ @NigelLatta
          24h24 hours ago
          Actually you can. But if you’re an empty headed racist we don’t have to provide you with a stage. So, exercising my right to free speech… how about u both disappear back to your sad hateful lives wherever u came from. You are neither needed, nor welcome here.

          • Gezza

             /  August 5, 2018

            Wrong target snowy. You need to find something from Nige on the John Key dead in an alley painting.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  August 5, 2018

              Thanks…think I forgot my meds…

          • Corky

             /  August 5, 2018

            Nigel Latta may need remedial help himself. Obviously becoming a television star has gone to his head. That’s also a fickle industry just like the hate monger industry.

            ”But if you’re an empty headed racist we don’t have to provide you with a stage.”

            Yeah, you do, if you have entered into a venue contract with these two.

            • Gezza

               /  August 5, 2018

              Nige has become a legend in his own lunchbox & is only a pop psychologist these days. Has been for some time. Now he gets to even present programmes that have nothing to do with psychology. He got absolutely taken for a ride when he sat in & went along for the rides on the making of one of those fake medium Sensing Murder episodes. Got slammed for all the setups & things he missed. Very embarrassing for him.

            • PDB

               /  August 5, 2018

              ‘Beyond the Darklands’ was watchable, other than that his TV show appearances have been awful.

            • sorethumb

               /  August 5, 2018

              I made a BSA complaint about The Hard Stuff – The New New Zealand. I feel vindicated. He is biased as.

            • Gezza

               /  August 5, 2018

              Oh. That’s interesting thumbsta. What reply did you get on your complaint?

  7. Chuck Bird

     /  August 5, 2018

    Traitor Chelsea Manning should not be allowed into NZ a convicted criminal. She is not only allowed in but has an Auckland Council venue.

  8. Gezza

     /  August 5, 2018

    The winners out of this whole shambles are Southern & Molyneux. That’s why they can’t suppress their grins, especially her. This sort of thing is just perfect for their YouTube channels. The donations will just keep on rolling in. Their fees here would be small bikkies to what they think it will generate on line. Political Kardashians.

  9. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 5, 2018
    • Gezza

       /  August 5, 2018

      Any thoughts on it?

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 5, 2018

        Ardern’s comment was smug nastiness and got what it deserved.

        • Gezza

           /  August 5, 2018

          Yup. Smug nastiness back. Reciprocation. That’s utu.
          If Jacinda had been nice & Lauren even nicer, that’s utu too.

  10. Gezza

     /  August 5, 2018

    Well that went the way I thought it would. We heard virtually nothing from them themselves & mostly second hand opinions from the people who hate them.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 5, 2018

      That was exactly what I anticipated and why I reserved comment. So Miriama proves to be the usual Lefty journalistic weasel?

      • Gezza

         /  August 5, 2018

        Did you watch it?

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  August 5, 2018

          No. I knew you would and report.

          • Gezza

             /  August 5, 2018

            I’ll leave you to make your judgement when you’ve actually seen it. Let me know then what you think?

            I know you don’t make judgements without seeing the evidence for yourself because that’s what you always tell us when it suits you.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 5, 2018

              You’ve already told me all I needed to know.

            • Gezza

               /  August 5, 2018

              I often tell you all you need to know about Trumpy too & you sometimes don’t agree.

              What’s different here?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 5, 2018

              You know I don’t watch videos. If there are any ideas worth considering they can be expressed in print. That is what language is for. I have little respect for most current journalists and current event programmes so I rarely watch them and consider them a poor use of time.

  11. sorethumb

     /  August 5, 2018

    Spoonley says they are wolves in sheeps clothing, but he is an “advocate of high migration and diversity”.

  12. Mikey

     /  August 5, 2018

    The interview would have been better if it had not been so obvious how the interviewer felt. I enjoy an unbiased reporter who states all of the facts and hears all of the facts or opinions as it was. Shame!

    • I thought it was a reasonable attempt to have a fairly superficial look at what is a very complex bunch of issues, but yes, it wasn’t particularly objective, and they didn’t examine the M&S messages much.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 5, 2018

      Are there any like that left in NZ? Paul Holmes could have done it. Since him, all think their own views matter more than those of their guests. They don’t.

      • Gezza

         /  August 5, 2018

        Paul Holmes would’ve gibbered his way through an interview with them & Molyneux is so slick & quick Holmes’s head would still be spinning when they told him time was up.

        • Gezza

           /  August 5, 2018

          The right person to interview those two, oddly enuf, I think might be Mike Hosking.

          • Corky

             /  August 5, 2018

            Bingo. He would have dug deep.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 5, 2018

            Yes, not a bad choice too. Would have been quite different from Holmes. Paul would have given more insights into personalities and Hosking would have examined the beliefs.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  August 5, 2018

          You forget his show was also edited. No, he would have shown clips and then discussed those with them.

          • Gezza

             /  August 5, 2018

            How would you know? You just told me you don’t watch videos?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 5, 2018

              I used to watch Holmes.

            • Gezza

               /  August 5, 2018

              My sincerest sympathies. I hope that counselling was able to help you eventually.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 5, 2018

              If those are your sincerest ones I’ll give them a miss, thanks.

            • Gezza

               /  August 5, 2018

              He was a narcissistic, ill-informed, burbling, ambulance-chasing knob with a sucky up attitude to the top end of society. Did you ever watch his horrendous end of year shows where he put on drinks, got everyone half cut & then wandered around the room showing all the clips of these drunk notables all telling him how great he was?

              He didn’t mind shoving his nose & his microphone into his target victims’s miseries but he squealed like a pig when others did it to his oen personal misery with a close relative.

              A tosser of the first order that dude. Most overhyped overpaid piece of rubbish I ever saw on tv.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 6, 2018

              Nonsense. He could be good and bad. He took risks, did his own thing, worked hard. Your opinion is bollocks.

            • Gezza

               /  August 6, 2018

              My opinion is accurate. It is based on long observation. Your opinion is different.

      • Blazer

         /  August 5, 2018

        thats Sir Paul…another knight right up there with Sir Isaac Newton…did he ever give the alluring Fleur..her panties ..back?

  13. Corky

     /  August 5, 2018

    Just watched the programme. A bloody disgrace of poor journalism. The pig ignorance shown by the interviewer was astounding. The programe was very biased towards those who disagreed with Molyneux & Southern. They receive too much airtime.

    My contentions:

    1- If free speech is so important why was only a segment of one hour devoted to it?
    2- One of the opening scenes showed Southern rarking up Muslims with her “Allah is gay” posters. What was missing was a context of why she was doing that.
    3-The interviewer…what a non entity.
    4- Spoonly and Davidson showing off death threats they had received. But, who sent them?.
    And why not show the abuse Molyneux & Southernare are subjected to?

    I now realise a war is coming to the West. And it’s a war that will be fought between Westerners, while opportunists wait for an opening, I fear I’m on the losing side going by the crap shown tonight.

    • Corky

       /  August 5, 2018

      Question: What proof have you Islam is a threat to the West. We have no problems with Muslims in New Zealand?

      What the hell is so hard about asking a question like that?

    • Gezza

       /  August 5, 2018

      Did anyone else notice that when Paddy Gower interviewed Molyneux & Southern he mostly focussed on Molyneux & Southern hardly got a word in – but on Miriama’s show they focussed almost exclusively on Southern as the star & gave Molyneux only a teeny bit part?

  14. Blazer

     /  August 5, 2018

    who needs those 2?

    Dust Kiwi guy off ,give him a soapbox and he will make them look like learners.

  15. RML

     /  August 6, 2018

    It was good to have some coverage of Molyneux & Southern on the Sunday programme.

    However, the reporting team did a very poor job of distilling the essence of the messages Molyneux & Southern are peddling.

    In particular, the attempts by Molyneux to claim meaningful correlations between race and intelligence are easily discredited by reputable scientific studies which show negligible biophysical differences as one would expect given we are all descended from the same common ancestors. Research indicates that environmental factors affecting childhood development are of extreme relevance to how much of their potential people realise.

    It would have been great if the Sunday programme had spent some time debunking Molyneux’s claims with expert scientists and educationalists presenting the real facts.

    In a world of ‘claim’ and ‘counter-claim’ and the ‘need to present both sides’ sometimes the facts are very helpful arbiters that will help people make informed judgments so they know bullshit when they see it.

    The subsequent coverage of the same topic on Q & A with Corin Dann again did a weak job of exploring the hate speech versus free speech dimension.

    It’s always rather offensive listening to a Muslim (Anjum Rahman in this case) arguing that free speech should not be applied to their pet religion because that constitutes hate speech when Islam contains numerous verses that can only be described as pure hate speech and which directly generate terrorism.

    One reason we have free speech is so we can openly discuss the problems associated evil ideologies.

    We back free speech up with an understanding that we must remain civil in our dealings with each other. Not threaten violence.

    A lesson never learned by those Muslims who shot the satirical journalists at Charlie Hebdo.

    The thing that people like Anjum Rahman fail to understand is that by saying that it is wrong to criticise Islam they are providing moral support to the fundamentalist members of their faith who are intolerant of the blasphemous infidels who criticise it.

    Dealing with evil religious ideology is a major issue and we must not shy away from it, even if it upsets the people who have been brainwashed from birth to believe it. Those holding such beliefs ought not be surprised if the citizens in a free democratic society choose to exercise their free speech rights in a manner that “rattles the cages that constrain their beliefs”.

    There are members of the LGBTQ community who are only now in 2018 escaping the clutches of Christian hatred and intolerance that has spanned centuries.

    Their human rights deserve active protection.

    This means that certain primitive religious teachings authored by “Stone Age” people 1500 – 2000 years ago need to be abandoned in favour of the better principles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (which itself needs to be updated to explicitly recognise the rights of LGBTQ people).

    In this society, criticising bad ideas is not the same thing as saying we hate the people who hold those ideas.