Lizzie Marvelly supports Brash ban

Lizzie Marvelly has a bigger platform to speak than most – she is a regular columnist at NZ Herald, and she has her own blog Villainesse.

She also attracts attention on Twitter, as she did yesterday when she one of a small minority who support the banning of Don Brash from speaking at Massey University.

No, Brash hasn’t been silenced, he has been given a megaphone after being banned. That’s what attacks on free speech can do – generate far more speech than they try to suppress.

Marvelly engaged after some responses:

@MatthewHootonNZ: The young students who invited him may have. They were perhaps as young as 3 when he became leader of the opposition.

@LizzieMarvelly: As members of a university politics society it’s very likely they’ve heard him rabbiting on and on about the same tired old stuff, if not in real time (and that’s possible – bafflingly, he has continued to rabbit on outside of politics, and to be given airtime) then in old clips.

@JarrodGilbertNZ: But they invited him.

@LizzieMarvelly: Ah. That’s unfortunate. Can’t anyone find a new mouthpiece for anti-te reo, anti-Māori rhetoric?

It looks like Marvelly jumped into this issue without knowing anything about what Brash was invited to talk about, which was nothing to do with te reo or Maori specific issues.

@LizzieMarvelly:  Many more shocking calls are made every day to exclude or under-represent women and Māori speakers. Forgive me for not feeling outraged at Brash being deprived of one of the many platforms he enjoys.

For all Marvelly knows their may have also been women and/or Māori speakers scheduled to speak at the same students’ political society event, who will also been excluded from speaking after the event was cancelled.

Regardless, it seems obvious that free speech is not an important principle for Marvelly.

And she isn’t alone in her attitude. It is common to see people say that some groups of people should be given more speaking rights, and that the views of others don’t matter.

98 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 8, 2018

    Marvelly has nothing to contribute except her sexuality. How ironic.

    • Gezza

       /  August 8, 2018

      Well this time it’s her cock up.

      • I read that a couple of times, then decided I had better just go and have a cup of tea.

        • Gezza

           /  August 8, 2018

          Colloquially speaking only, of course.

          • The silly tart seems not to know that villainesse isn’t a word, although villainess is. I can’t think why she’d call herself a villainess.

            Villainesse sounds like a $2 perfume.

            • Traveller

               /  August 8, 2018

              And that Kitty is Marvelly to the core. A cheap $2.00 perfume.

              An in your face brash Woollie’s scent. It announces its arrival before the top is off. Similar to her music – every note is predictable (operatic crossed with light elevator Pop) and all you’re left with is disappointment.

              Hubby says she is bitter as all get out, mostly over her dead Poperatic career.

              I cannot be any kinder. She shoots her gob off spitting tacks as she does so. There is nothing nuanced about this perfume and neither is there any mystique.

            • Impulse would Chanel No. 5 by comparison. Villainesse would smell like cheap air freshener, the kind that gets into your clothes and makes you stink.

              I know a reasonable number of lesbians, and they are secure enough not to feel the need to vilify men.

  2. Gezza

     /  August 8, 2018

    And … reposted again from last night here too.

    Lizzie Marvelly jumps straight in predicting what Brash is going to talk about. She just seems to come across more and more as an ageist, sexist, anti-white racist, heterophobic sow.
    … … …
    Don Brash Releases Speech Notes
    “Former National MP and Reserve Bank governor Don Brash has provided the Herald with a copy of the notes for his cancelled speech at Massey University.

    Brash was to speak about life in politics at the university’s Palmerston North Campus tomorrow morning as part of a series of political talks hosted by the Politics Society.

    But his speaking engagement was today cancelled after the organisers alerted the university to threats against security and public safety.

    The controversial decision by Massey University added fuel to the free speech debate in New Zealand.

    In a statement, the university referred to Brash as the Hobson’s Pledge founder and supporter of controversial Canadian speakers Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux.

    Brash is also a member of the Free Speech Coalition which was formed after a decision was made by Auckland Council to ban the speakers from its venues.

    But, the speech notes provided by Brash make no mention of Hobson’s Pledge or the controversial Canadian duo.

    Instead it details his political career through to his decision to step down as National leader in late 2006.

    Massey University vice chancellor Jan Thomas today said the decision to cancel the speech came after the Politics Society raised concerns about their ability to meet the conditions agreed to as a result of a surge in interest on social media.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12102874

  3. MaureenW

     /  August 8, 2018

    So the comments above are not about what Brash says, rather it’s about him being a white male and when is it the bro’s turn to speak. Jesus wept.

    • Gezza

       /  August 8, 2018

      Ok, you can start Maureen. I’m in tne mood.

      • He was to speak about a life in poltics…hardly a controversial topic.

        He has been grossly misrepresented by the press and people like Dizzy Marvelly.

  4. artcroft

     /  August 8, 2018

    Marvelly is just trolling for clicks and notoriety. She’s Lauren Southern mark II.

    • Missy

       /  August 8, 2018

      Surely you aren’t comparing virtuous Lefty Lizzie to Lauren Southern????

      You will be lynched by the so-called liberals for that….

      • Missy

         /  August 8, 2018

        And to the downtickers I say, get a life, get out, and get a sense of humour. It must be so terrible to be you guys, you need to have a laugh and lighten up a bit it isn’t good for your Mental Health to be so negative all the time.

        • The lonely Phantom Down Tickers HAVE a life,it’s not what you and I would consider to be one, of course.

          Missy, did you know that Farmers had named a teddy bear after you ?

          I imagine that the ted was named after you, and not the other way around.

    • Corky

       /  August 8, 2018

      Hitch the horse and get out of the sun, Arty.

      • Blazer

         /  August 8, 2018

        Brash is positioning himself for a political comeback….just you wait and see..

        • Corky

           /  August 8, 2018

          Wouldn’t surprise me. But it’d be a long shot. However, I reckon more than a few people would be willing to hold their noses and vote for him.

    • Tipene

       /  August 8, 2018

      Southern would use Marvelly for a toothpick.

  5. Pickled Possum

     /  August 8, 2018

    A true advocate for truth dressed up as a woman … doesn’t that just get up the nose of the supposed entitled.

    • Gezza

       /  August 8, 2018

      I dunno – I don’t seem to be entitled to much & she’s getting up my nose.

    • Pickled Possum

       /  August 8, 2018

      Brash can give his agenda written up butt these are young people who want to know his perception and opinion on his many different views ..one would surly be ‘why Hobsons Pledge’ Or onelawforall. Do you think maori are the tangatawhenua of nz? The mind boggles at the questions put to Brash by the youth at Massey and the tangents it will go. If the children who asked him, were worried about creating diversion in their campus, asked the University stop him coming, then good on them for having mature resolutions. This isnt the Roman dayz where victims are thrown to the lions … for the joy of others.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 8, 2018

        Why shouldn’t “children” be allowed to put their questions to Brash, Possum? You don’t seem to be answering that.

        • PartisanZ

           /  August 8, 2018

          Young people should be allowed to put their questions to Brash … and other young people should be allowed to make their opinions known about Brash speaking on the campus … including passionately …

          The VC weighed up these things AT THE REQUEST OF THE ORGANIZERS and decided to cancel … presumably in discussion and with the organizers agreement? I haven’t heard otherwise …

          Have we heard from the organizers at all?

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 8, 2018

            other young people should be allowed to make their opinions known about Brash speaking on the campus … including passionately

            That doesn’t mean they should be allowed to scream or bully others into silence. When that is their tactic they should be jailed.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 8, 2018

              Police social media you reckon? What if some of those passionate voices turn out to be false-flag Righties? Jail them too?

              Why don’t the organizers go ‘off campus’ for a venue?

              Why don’t they have a series of ‘at homes’ with Don Brash? [That way he could experience flatting conditions at the same time!]

              In fact, why don’t the organizers speak? … Why haven’t we heard from them?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 8, 2018

              Anyone who disrupts a meeting to the point of calling it off should be jailed. I don’t care which end of the lunacy or thug spectrum they come from. It’s not their politics but their actions that are illegal.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 8, 2018

              And to find them we must police and regulate the internet … The very thing that gives you and I the ‘freedom’ to discuss things on here …

              ‘Otago University shooting threat traced to Colombia’ – NZHeraldo

              https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12103162

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 8, 2018

              Sometimes. However, in the Massey instance the perpetrators are in full view.

      • Gezza

         /  August 8, 2018

        This one law for all is a perfectly valid viewpoint. But for Marvelly or anyone to assume he’s gong to discuss these issues you mention & support the suppression of that idea is wrong. She gets & uses her Herald column to slag off heterosexual white old males. Should we shut that down? It’s become a mantra.

        My recollection is Brash doesn’t support aspects of Treaty Settlements. I disagree with him. I think he’s incredibly ignorant of our shared histories. He’s in a minority view there. Young people need to learn to stand up & argue their case. Not threaten & disrupt people of a different viewpoint who aren’t advocating violence & discrimination against people.

        Brash & his ilk are an anachronism in my view – but these strident anti-white, anti-male, anti-“baby boomer” & now even anti-CIS-gender fads are quite limely to start generating a backlash. Old white men can feel just as aggrieved at being slagged off as young lesbian Maori.

        Where does this go? Where does it end?

        • MaureenW

           /  August 8, 2018

          Those who advocate for the marginalised, are marginalising others?

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 8, 2018

            There’s a very real difference between marginalization by the dominant culture and advocacy by &/or for those they have marginalized …

            Brash and them experience any ‘rebalancing’ of this as a threat … like Treaty Settlements are ‘giving’ to Maori … not “giving back” …

            One perceived threat is the threat of marginalization … which they are very very familiar with … doling out …

            To analogize: Are prison officers paranoid about being incarcerated?

        • PartisanZ

           /  August 8, 2018

          “When people say “one law for all” they inevitably mean only English Law”

          – Sir Geoffrey Palmer & Andrew Butler – ‘Towards Democratic Renewal’ (2018)

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 8, 2018

            No, they mean NZ law. Which is why we have a Parliament. Honestly, Palmer talks drivel so often.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 8, 2018

              To paraphrase another statement from the book by a Law Professor – “NZ Law is so English as to be almost authoritarian”

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 8, 2018

              Honestly, the guy is an idiot. If he wants authoritarian law, try European – or Sharia.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 8, 2018

              He’s not talking about either of those though … He’s talking about IMPROVING Aotearoa New Zealand Law and lawmaking …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 8, 2018

              Well, there is a certain rich irony about a socialist complaining about authoritarian law.

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 8, 2018

            And there’s a certain rich irony in a libertarian, neoliberal ‘free marketeer’ complaining about someone wanting to improve something Alan …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 8, 2018

              I wasn’t. I was complaining about his stupid statements.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 8, 2018

              That’s what his statements are about Alan … which makes them not stupid …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 8, 2018

              It doesn’t of course. Good intentions don’t excuse stupidity.

        • PartisanZ

           /  August 8, 2018

          @Gezza – ” … who aren’t advocating violence & discrimination against people.”

          Depends what you call “violence” Gezza … ?

          That Brash’s ‘Right Brigade’ are advocating discrimination is an absolute given.

          So what about ‘Legislative Violence’?

          • I know Don Brash, and he does not advocate discrimination.

            You seem to assume that discrimination only goes one way, but what about rights given to ‘iwi’ that are denied to Pakehas ?

            One obvious example is extra help given to Maori university students, which some find patronising; the assumption that they need it is unflattering.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 8, 2018

              Yes he does Kitty … He advocates for the continuance of the institutional and everyday discrimination of Pakeha cultural dominance …

          • Gezza

             /  August 8, 2018

            What do you mean by legislative violence?

        • PartisanZ

           /  August 8, 2018

          @Gezza – “Old white men can feel just as aggrieved at being slagged off as young lesbian Maori … Where does this go? Where does it end?”

          Ummm, “old white men” learn about feeling aggrieved … ?

          Old white men learn about feeling aggrieved frequently and often … like some minority or non-dominant culture people do?

          As an old white man, something just tells me there’s bound to be some good in it.

          • Gezza

             /  August 8, 2018

            Of course there is. Everybody can feel aggrieved about something. And they can speak up about it. And they can be called to justify it. That’s the whole point of free speech.

    • PDB

       /  August 8, 2018

      She IS the entitled.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 8, 2018

        Then it’s Entitled vs Super-Entitled … huh PDB?

        Almost a “level playing field” …

  6. duperez

     /  August 8, 2018

    There are a million angles. One of the most weird is that Lizzie Marvelly doesn’t care about Don Brash being banned because he might actually not have “anything meaningful to add anymore. Heard it all before.”

    Let’s not hear from Jacinda Ardern anymore, or Simon Bridges, or Mike Hosking then. Or Lizzie Marvelly.

  7. Blazer

     /  August 8, 2018

    she looks a bit like Cher…can she sing?

  8. Zedd

     /  August 8, 2018

    Lizzie sounds like just another ‘voice crying in the wilderness’ :/

  9. Zedd

     /  August 8, 2018

    Freedom of speech “YES”
    deliberate HATE speech “NO Thx !”

    I hear that there is to be another ‘Unite the Right’ march on USA this weekend.. gaining popularity since MrT started making these noises too. I watched a bit of footage from last years march; ‘White Folks wearing Swastikas’.. & other NAZI insignia

    ‘make AMERICA great again ????”

    echoes of: ‘The 3rd Reich did not end in 1945.. it just moved to USA’ 😦

    • Gezza

       /  August 8, 2018

      They’ve had white supremacists & anti-black, anti-jewish racists racists, particularly, especially down South, for most of their history since Independence.

      • Zedd

         /  August 8, 2018

        ‘They’ve had white supremacists…..’ sez Gezza

        maybe so.. but they used to wear white hoods/robes not Swastikas/Iron crosses etc. OR do Nazi salutes.. seems very prevalent in recent times 😦

        • Gezza

           /  August 8, 2018

          From the few docos I’ve seen of them most of them have swastikas and flags & pics of Hitler & are thick as pigshit & actually know bugger-all about the real Nazis.

          Here we have some Maori gang members who go around wearing swastikas & coal stahlhelms. It’s all about racist assholes just being racist assholes.

          • A schoolmaster used to tell his Maori pupils who admired these things that under Hitler, they would have been among the first to go because of their skin colour.

  10. PartisanZ

     /  August 8, 2018

    It seems at least one of the protesters has been identified, Palmerston North activist Karl Pearce …

    “There was also a letter the VC said prompted her to cancel the event … But the man who wrote the VC the letter, Palmerston North activist Karl Pearce, told Stuff that while he supported the ban, he had no intention of getting violent, and merely intended to protest peacefully. He says the letter has been misinterpreted – when he said “free speech does not come free of consequences,” he was meaning hurt and backlash, not violence.”

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulletin/08-08-2018/the-bulletin-backlash-to-brash-ban-protester-denies-violent-intent/

    It is actually possible that the real culprit here is draconian Health & Safety laws affecting University campuses … ?

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 8, 2018

      The real culprit appears to be an ideological appointment by an incompetent University Council.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 8, 2018

        In order to prove it was an “ideological appointment” you’d have to know who each applicant was up against … Who the competition was … Who were the other applicants for the job …?

        My goodness Alan … You are so far behind the times. Stuck in Rogerednomics La La ‘Freedom’ FantasyLand no doubt?

        That sort of appointment, welcome & media release has been standard practice in most if not all government organisations and many NGOs for …. about … 30+ years …

        Gee … since about the time of … Rogerednomics …

    • Gezza

       /  August 8, 2018

      Item one on 1ewes tonite. Jan Thomas said there was a threat of gun violence which prompted her to cancel the event. She has provided no evidence. The Police again confirmed there had been no such report made to them & there was no contact from the University at all. Overall coverage was negative. Jan Thomas is refusing to comment. The Chancellor reportedly backs her, but no reasons given as to why. Most people interviewed were critical of Massey including some intelligent Maori female staff member or student who wanted to hear what he had to stay. Only that Karl Pearce character was on speaking in support of the ban, spouting the usual anti-colonial stuff.

      • Gezza

         /  August 8, 2018

        Two things they did mention that were interesting were that Don Brash will be speaking at Auckland University on Free Speech next week, & that Hone Harawira was banned from speaking there once. I want to have a look into that. In case it was related to the violent assault on engineering students with weapons he participated in there once that broke some students’ bones & put some in hospital. But it might have been something else. I don’t think they said why he was banned.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 8, 2018

        So a full 24 hours has passed since the idiot acted and she is still the VC.

        That means Massey has now renounced any right to be regarded as a respectable NZ university and should now be known as Massey Theological College where students will be taught the correct way to think and protected from any hazardous ideas – old or new.

        What a pack of fuckwits.

  11. I was reflecting last night on the oft-raised issue of Free Speech having consequences, and here are my conclusions:

    In a society dictated by brainwashed, repressive Liberal-Fascists, the consequences are silence, violence, social media hatred, sacking from your job, jailing for a Humpty-Dumpty ‘hate crime’, and the collapse of society into a dark pit of ignorance and intolerance. It would take a fool to reject the image of Orwell’s “boot stamping on a human face”.

    In a society run by enlightened humans, the consequences are robust responses in a stimulating forum where folk can discuss ideas even as bizarre as the Earth going round the Sun, and thus create a challenging, growing culture worth bequeathing to their children. It would take a fool to reject this by pathetically demanding a ‘right not to be offended’.

    The likes of Goff and the woman at Massey are clearly such fools, lacking the ability to grasp even the most basic requirements of enlightened humanity; so some agency – some boot wanting to stamp on the human face – must be pulling their strings. It is not hard to track it down if you open your eyes, and your mind. Start from the beginning. And be afraid.

    Some old guy on the beach apparently told the Trojans to burn the Wooden Horse as it was a trap. Rumour has it they banged him up for a hate crime, fearful of having to address something they would rather avoid.

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 8, 2018

      There’s three of them now, Phil Goff, the Powerstation owner and Jan Thomas …

      They’ve all made more-or-less the same decision based on concerns about public safety, staff safety and the security of &/or risk to their venues … the venues they are ultimately responsible for …

      And they’ve all become the subject (or victims) of what basically amount to fake news items

      … which Righties, producers and consumers of “fake news”, are up in arms about as though the items are true … e.g. as though Jan Thomas made a totally ideological decision based on her political beliefs all on her lonesome … not in communication with the organizers of the event …

      It certainly is an extraordinary situation …

      • Gezza

         /  August 8, 2018

        What’s got Jan into trouble is telling the news media it was discussed with the police & the police saying that’s not true.

        • PartisanZ

           /  August 8, 2018

          Oh, you mean the latest Rightie justification for thinking Jan’s “in trouble” …?

          • Gezza

             /  August 8, 2018

            No – I mean only what I said. Don’t reframe what I said & misrepresent me to win an argument with yourself. That’s a dirty trick Molyneux uses all the time too.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 8, 2018

              Really? For argument’s sake, let’s assume this story is 36 hours old … At what hour did this “Police saying that’s not true” enter into it …?

            • Gezza

               /  August 8, 2018

              6pm last night. Possibly earlier.

        • Gezza

           /  August 8, 2018

          Social media threats against Don Brash speaking at Massey University revealed
          “The social media comments that forced Massey University to shut down an event where former National MP and Reserve Bank governor Don Brash was due to speak have been revealed.

          Brash was due to speak at the event at Massey University’s Manawatu campus as part of a series of political talks.

          Newshub revealed a Facebook user posted a link to the event page with the caption, “This guy lol … if your [sic] up to nothing wensday [sic] head up to massey uni”.
          The post was accompanied by two emojis, a red circle with a cross through it and a laughing face.

          In response, another person commented, “Take a gun”.
          The Massey University corporate communications director told Newshub the comments were “enough red flags to tip the balance” in the eyes of vice chancellor Jan Thomas.”
          More…
          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12103597

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 8, 2018

            Yep … as I suspected … It’s OSH … and that balance is heavily weighted in the direction of Red Flags I’ll wager …

            It’s because of all the school shootings we have here in New Zeal Land.

            • Gezza

               /  August 8, 2018

              We don’t have school shootings in Kiwiland. We have pupils punching & kicking kicking each other in the head & their mates posting video clips on facebook.

              Picked up my nurse cuzzie & farmer hubby from Welly airport this morning on their way back to Stratford from visiting their daughter in Dunners. They had a coffee here before heading home in their car they left here a week ago. I asked if they’d seen the latest report of this happening between two girls at Stratford High this week.

              She hadn’t but she told me a friend of hers did relief teaching up that way not too long sgo. She had a briefing with the Headmaster & he outlined their policy for handling fights (must be two teachers, no manhandling etc “because they’re not our kids”.

              One big boy wouldn’t stop being disruptive. She told him to stop it. He threw a chair at her. She walked out of the class, straight to the Principals office, & said “You don’t provide a safe workplace. They’re your kids. You handle it. I’m gone.”

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 8, 2018

        The organisers had the right to withdraw their invitation had they wished. Instead Thomas blocked it herself. Now she is grabbing any fig leaf to hide behind. A truly disgusting woman.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 8, 2018

        The News Media/Social Media has become like a ‘Lord of the Flies’ children’s playground … (with a really fucken well-stocked ‘Tuck Shop’!) …

        It’s sorta like … Shit! I thought we were past this stuff … I mean, I thought the New Zealand public might’ve matured beyond this point …

        You know … Like I have …

        I thought we actually were doing that back in the late-70s …

        • Gezza

           /  August 8, 2018

          Yeah, we were. We were getting Springbok tour games cancelled & disrupted, but usually the police were there beating people up.

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 8, 2018

            That’s true … I’ve had this feeling of disillusionment before … when the anti-tour protests started to get violent …

            Thanks for the memory …

            • Gezza

               /  August 8, 2018

              Mostly I remember peaceful sit ins & some people blocking doorways & stairwells & the police eventually removing the protestors who did that – & the events they were protesting about proceeding – because that’s what the law permits. That’s even what happened at Bastion Point & those eventually protestors won themselves a righteous victory & impressed everyone with their dignity.

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 8, 2018

      @thesailor – “In a society run by enlightened humans, the consequences are robust responses in a stimulating forum where folk can discuss ideas …”

      So let’s say Donald Trump is an example of a popular Rightie who totally blows that theory out the water …

      It’s an awfully pessimistic outlook. What remains is Liberal Fascists on the one hand, and Conservative Fascists on the other …

      I’ll leave being afraid to you … thanks very much …

  12. Tipene

     /  August 8, 2018

    And in all of this – still no political leadership that will confront the bullies and call them out for the neo-fascists they are.

    Oh wait: just one – the Deputy Leader of a political party outside of Parliament that got shafted by some of its own people, and by the right-of-centre social media clarions that now clamor for a voice:

    http://www.rightminds.nz/articles/new-conservatives-elliot-ikilei-demolishes-radiolives-wendyl-nissen-free-speech

    The pig ignorance of the average Conservative voter is truly, truly mind-blowing.

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 8, 2018

      Any proper, genuine, serious, dedicated, ideologically-sound Rightie could only say, “Government should have absolutely nothing to do with this *shite* … ”

      Interfering in stuff like this is not the purview of a decent Libertarian regime … The (so-called) Left’s protestations should slide off Real Righties like water off a ducks back …

      Hell, any Rightie government worth its salt would’ve carved out of their administration any sort of agency that could deal with this *crap* anyway … Human Rights Commissions, Race Relations Conciliators etc etc … to save the taxpayer money by reducing wasted government expenditure …

      So maybe its not “pig ignorance” …. Maybe its gullibility?

      Ohhh, look … It walks, swims and quacks like a duck …