Brash up-platformed in university debate tonight

Massey University received almost universal criticism and derision after they cancelled a political society meeting that Don Brash was scheduled to speak at. It was widely seen as an attack on free speech, with some saying it was proof of a slippery slope for free speech.

Brash got far more publicity than he would received at Massey, and he gets a chance to be in the spotlight at Auckland University tonight. He was booked to participate in a debate long before the Molynuex & Southern and Massey furores arose.

Coincidentally and ironically, tonight’s debate is on “Has PC culture gone too far to the point of limiting freedom of speech?”

Freedom of Speech Public Debate

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Freedom of speech is a value which is fundamental to New Zealand society. But at what point should we prevent speech which is offensive, bigoted, hurtful or that we disagree with? Has PC culture gone too far to the point where it is limiting freedom of speech?

The University of Auckland Debating Society is proud to present the inaugural Think Big Debate – a debate series which will explore the big issues in New Zealand Society. The inaugural Think Big Debate is going to examine whether PC culture has gone too far and is limiting freedom of speech.

Don Brash (of the Free Speech coalition) and Elliot Ikilei (Deputy Leader of the Conservative Party) will affirm the motion and Fran O’Sullivan (Head of Business at the New Zealand Herald) and Simon Wilson (Senior Writer at the New Zealand Herald) will negate the motion.

They will each be joined by two of the university’s top debaters. With Freedom of Speech in the headlines both in New Zealand and overseas you won’t want to miss this event.

Absolutely everyone is welcome at this public debate. Check out the Facebook event for more information.

 

‘De-platformed’ is a new word for me. In this case it has backfired and turned into upping Brash’s platform.

Stuff: Don Brash free speech debate in Auckland booms on back of Massey’s ban

Massey University’s ban on Don Brash making a speech on its Palmerston North campus has proved a boon for rival Auckland University.

Double the number of people expected to attend Brash’s Auckland appearance have now registered since Massey axed Brash and ignited another free speech debate.

The controversy has been a marketing gift for the otherwise low key Auckland function organised by the university’s debate society.

There is planned protest: Students and Staff to protest Don Brash speaking at University of Auckland

A New University has organised a public protest opposing the inclusion of Don Brash in a University of Auckland Debating Society event to be held on campus on Thursday 9th August at 6.00pm in the Owen G Glenn building.

“Brash’s haste to come to the defense of far-right ideologues Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux shows his commitment to the right to spread hate speech with no consideration of the consequences for those targeted by racial abuse and discrimination.

“Universities are legislatively bound to act as the ‘critic and conscience of society’. Condemning any platform for hate speech is a rare opportunity for the University community to fulfil this crucial role.

“The University of Auckland equity policy acknowledges the distinct status of Māori as tangata whenua and is committed to partnerships that acknowledge the principles of the Treaty. Hosting Brash directly contravenes equity principles and the protection of students and staff from discrimination.

“A New University calls on University of Auckland management to follow through on its equity policy and strategic plan emphasis on promoting Māori presence and participation in all aspects of University life.

“A New University joins the struggle of those at Massey University in refusing to accommodate hatred, bigotry and racism in their institutions. Universities must uphold the principles of Te Tiriti and ensure the safety of students and staff on campus.

There does not seem to be an obvious Maori participant in the debate, but that may be addressed froom four of “the university’s top debaters” who are as yet unnamed.

UPDATE:

Up-platformed and live.

97 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  August 9, 2018

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see it live-streamed on facebook, but if not I hope it’s up on facebook. I imagine there will need to be a police presence.

  2. Corky

     /  August 9, 2018

    From bespectacled mild mannered ex RBGoverner, to raging free speech anarchist. Batten down the hatches, Brash is in town.

    This man has always gained publicity from the most unusual of circumstances.

    • lurcher1948

       /  August 9, 2018

      Ahh, Brash now there’s a saying,”full of piss and wind” this weeks excitement,gone when something new excites us just like how the memory of the Canadian nazis are fading away fast

      • Corky

         /  August 9, 2018

        I think that’s one post you shouldn’t have posted, Lurchy. It’s self incriminating.

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 9, 2018

      Brash’s ‘popularity’ and profile sheets directly back to his Orewa speech …

      Seldom in Aotearoa New Zealand’s history has more damage been done by so few in so short a time … for such purely political reasons …

      “It was instrumental in establishing a public profile for Don Brash, who had only recently become the party’s leader … The speech resulted in a major surge for the National Party, which had been languishing from an overwhelming defeat at the 2002 election. From 28% in the polls a month before the speech, the National Party jumped to 45% two weeks after it: ten points ahead of Labour.

      Polls showed that many Māori were comfortable with Brash’s speech, and the National Party threw its support behind it, but Georgina te Heuheu was removed as National’s Māori Affairs spokeswoman after criticising it.

      Several former New Zealand Prime Ministers have criticized the speech in the time since its delivery. Jim Bolger said in an interview published in 2017 it was in the same “frame” as Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign, and that “some people follow absurdities.” Helen Clark said of Brash’s motives that “he would’ve done a lot of opinion polling on that, and knew it would strike a chord.”

      His [Brash’s] speech was criticized by lecturer and political writer Jon Johansson: “Whether intended or not, the Orewa speech reinforced the ignorant and racist stereotype that Māori were ‘savages’ before the ‘gift’ of European civilization was visited upon them.”

      The damage Brash has done cannot be underestimated … He’s a traitor to his own ‘one people’ cause IMHO … the ultimate divisive force “hiding in plain sight” calling everyone else divisive …

        • PDB

           /  August 9, 2018

          You missed (on purpose) the important bit: “The speech was criticised not so much for its substance but for a perceived political intent behind it”

          The speech itself wasn’t racist, some people took it to be so as it questioned the whole treaty process from an alternative viewpoint to their own as should happen in any good democracy. Brash’s speech wasn’t the problem, some people (like yourself)not being able to accept an alternative argument were.

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 9, 2018

            You’re quite wrong about me PDB … All I’ve been doing ever since is debating that “alternative argument”, which I accept Brash has a right to hold and express … Part of my argument is that its decidedly unhealthy for the nation’s progress.

            The fact I believe the alternative argument contains considerable racism is pertinent though … Dominant culture institutional and everyday racism is a key component of the “political intent” …

            So don’t tell me it wasn’t racist. That’s just your opinion.

            I’ve been doing exactly what “some people (like yourself) say you want people to do. I provocatively characterize these people as ‘Righties’, just as some of them – some of you – characterize people holding alternative opinions as ‘Lefties’ …

        • Corky

           /  August 9, 2018

          ”Seldom in Aotearoa New Zealand’s history has more damage been done by so few in so short a time … for such purely political reasons …”

          What damage?

          • PDB

             /  August 9, 2018

            PZ means all those treaty claims the National party completed during their tenure.

            Stuff: “Despite both ruling for nine years National settled 59 claims to Labour’s 15.”.”And that difference isn’t just felt in the sheer number of settlements: the total amount of money the Fifth Labour Government paid out in financial redress was $277.4m. National in Government on the other hand paid out $1.59b.”.

            And even then Cullen only rushed through about $100m of treaty settlements in the final months of his govt in order to deprive the incoming National govt any spare money – his famous ‘cupboard is bare’.

            • Blazer

               /  August 9, 2018

              its not a contest PDB.
              The foundations have to be laid.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 9, 2018

              Precisely Blazer … Settlements ‘come due’ …

            • Corky

               /  August 9, 2018

              Oh, I now get it, PDB..Parti meant damage to Labours false facade of being a friend to Maori.

              Wreckers and haters I think Aunty called them. Terrible.

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 9, 2018

            I guess you have to be capable of considering an ‘alternative past’ … What Brash (and National on 28%) might have done differently instead …

            They might have collaborated with hapu iwi Maori to both further facilitate the Treaty Settlement process – since that’s gonna happen anyhow – and open up the process to ‘include’ Pakeha more … to become a nation’s positive and meaningful collaboration … (with elements of Truth & Reconciliation) …

            Ironically, as things turned out, this is sort of, very very partially and perhaps reluctantly what National actually ended up doing in ‘coalition’ [or C&S] with the Maori Party … much to the consternation of many of True Blue supporters ‘awakened’ to Treatyphobic Polarization Frenzy (TPF) by National’s very own former leader, Dr Brash himself …

            This kind of fucked-upness is fairly typical of Blueys IMHO.

            Having committed himself to TPF, Brash – clearly a man unable to retract or even reconsider – had to crawl further out on the same limb, resulting in him clinging to the twig where he is now …

            I have no doubt he’s damaged the tree though. I’d say he attempted to ring-bark it and failed miserably …

  3. robertguyton

     /  August 9, 2018

    Up-platformed?
    The venue and date for the debate was organised months ago and remains unchanged.

    • Gezza

       /  August 9, 2018

      Up-sold might have been more accurate. That’s the meaning I took from it. Hardly anyone knew or even probably cared about it before. Now it’s headlining.

      • I think we have Barbara Streisand to thank for setting that ball rolling.

        • De-platforming is clumsy and meaningless. Unless someone’s ON a platform, they can’t be removed from it.

  4. Corky

     /  August 9, 2018

    We are currently mired in the debate around censorship of free speech.

    This problem is nothing new in the scientific community, but the situation has deteriorated over time. Four factors are major contributors to this sad state of affairs.

    1- Abuse of peer review.
    2- Censorship of reportage regarding controversial studies.
    3- Funding and tenure.
    4- Corporate ownership of the ‘ scientific method’ and outcomes.

    What this means is we never get to hear of scientific discoveries that may benefit mankind. We never get to hear of scientists who don’t tow the orthodox line. They are confined to obscurity.

    However, some researchers refuse to be silenced. They are prepared to take a beat. And a beat is what they get.

    Rupert Sheldrake is one such individual. He challenged my worldview a long time ago. I was ironically introduced to his work by my 6th form biology teacher. He’s why I’m prepared to entertain the bizarre…and others are not.

    In this clip he espouses 10 points we should think about regarding scientific tenets.

    This clip was banned from the TEDx YouTube library, but has been reposted. The TEX response and Sheldrakes speech is in the below link. The reason he is wearing no shoes is because he either can’t afford them…or he wants to be ‘grounded’ during his speech. 🤗

    https://blog.ted.com/the-debate-about-rupert-sheldrakes-talk/

    • Corky

       /  August 9, 2018

      Arrrh. Wrong thread. Sorry. Pretend you are in Open Forum and Brash is just a hologram.

      • Blazer

         /  August 9, 2018

        or pretend you actually got to…6th form!

        • Corky

           /  August 9, 2018

          Even got 6th form certificate. I think that trumps a 4th form leaving certificate.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 9, 2018

        In more than one sense Brash is only a hologram Corky … the ‘semblance’ or ‘projection’ of a political entity … re-active, anti-active, pseudo-and-quasi-active rather than proactive …

    • phantom snowflake

       /  August 9, 2018

      I’ll continue your threadjacking. Corky it’s great that you’re into Rupert Sheldrake; I’m currently reading his (fairly) recent book The Science Delusion which is both an overview of his previous work and a critique of mainstream science. I’m a bit taken aback that you are able to hold individualistic right wing views while also entertaining Sheldrake’s ideas. For example his concept of ‘Morphic Resonance’ presupposes that organisms have a collective memory and are closely interlinked telepathically. That just doesn’t fit with your politics.

      • Corky

         /  August 9, 2018

        I have said before mankind will ultimately evolve into a socialist like society. However, it wont be anything like the parasitic entity presently known as socialism. Each member of this advanced society will be simultaneously cognizant of their individual ”I,’ and their collective identity.

        They will know what most don’t…. you cannot damage another entity without ultimately damaging yourself.

        Jesus knew this before Sheldrake, as his sermon on the mount shows.

        My politics, the Right, is teaching people their individual ”I” inheritance.

        So PS, what do you make of Sheldrakes belief that the mind can operate outside of the body.
        That the mind can be projected anywhere? That’s old hat for metaphysics, but weird hat for your average scientist.

        • phantom snowflake

           /  August 9, 2018

          Well, I’ll just open myself up to ridicule from the atheist and hard agnostic contingent here and state that I have experienced multiple out-of-body experiences. After one, which was a near-death experience, I was able to provide specific details relating to my resuscitation which were unusual and could not possibly have been guessed. In my view one of the worst errors of mainstream science (particularly psychology) is the conflating of mind and brain.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 9, 2018

            That the mind thinks it is out of the body doesn’t mean it is.

          • Corky

             /  August 9, 2018

            ‘Well, I’ll just open myself up to ridicule from the atheist and hard agnostic contingent here and state that I have experienced multiple out-of-body experiences.”

            I asked my doctor; also a surgeon, if he had encountered this experience amongst his patients. He said some had had strange experiences, then without missing a beat asked me how I was feeling. He wasn’t conformable discussing what he didn’t understand. That spark of wonder and inquiry had been educated out of him.

            ”In my view one of the worst errors of mainstream science (particularly psychology) is the conflating of mind and brain.”

            Yes, I agree 100%

            • It seems odd that a doctor (one must assume this to be a GP) is also a surgeon. ????

            • Corky

               /  August 9, 2018

              ”It seems odd that a doctor (one must assume this to be a GP) is also a surgeon. ????”

              I should have been more precise….a specialist doctor, not a GP doctor.

              Any more prattish questions you want to raise? Will I be subjected to your nonsense for the whole evening?

          • Gezza

             /  August 9, 2018

            Yes, I’ve read a lot of reports by people who have had these experiences, snowy. How far did you get in your experience? Did you go into the tunnel & out into the really bright light & what did you see & experience then?

            • phantom snowflake

               /  August 9, 2018

              Although I’ve had many OOBEs, they’ve all been brief and haven’t taken me far from my body. My near-death experience involved floating just below the ceiling watching my resuscitation. So; no tunnels or lights, also haven’t seen the legendary silver cord which some claim attaches the soul to the body.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 9, 2018

              I had a similar one during an op that nearly went wrong. But I didn’t conclude that it told me anything significant.

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 9, 2018

            @Corky – “… mankind will ultimately evolve into a socialist-like society … My politics, the Right, is teaching people their individual ”I” inheritance.”

            So in other words, “I know it’s going Left-ish … but I’m gonna align hard with the Right”

            I’d find that a difficult lifestyle choice to make …

            Of course its abundantly clear to everyone, especially to those of us in the West, that what “people” need is tuition in their individual “I” inheritance …

            When society evolves socialist-like, we’ve gotta have some bargaining chips … We’ve gotta get the ‘balance’ right … Right?

            If what you say is true, I reckon you’d enjoy reading ‘Future of Man’, my oft quoted tome, of which I believe I may have the only extant copy …

    • phantom snowflake

       /  August 9, 2018

      To simplify: Rupert Sheldrake’s view of nature (including humans) is a collectivist one; your view of humans is an individualized and atomised one.

      • I had one (near death, after a crash) where I saw the tunnel and light and was somehow going along it. The tunnel went through what looked like grey clouds when they have that mother of pearl look. I didn’t see what was at the end, except that it was glowing softly like the light at the end of a real tunnel.

        I had an out of body experience, but thought later that I had hallucinated with a reaction to prescription painkillers. I was near the ceiling looking down at myself.

  5. Up-platformed and live.

    • Gezza

       /  August 9, 2018

      Good to hear it’ll be live streamed & Robert can relax now because its been up-platforrmed.

  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 9, 2018

    I imagine the participants have all had to rewrite their speeches over the past couple of days. I hope they get to deliver them without being shouted down by Lefty fascists.

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 9, 2018

      Or punched-out by Rightie fascists …

      Orh, no, that’s right, there are no Rightie fascists …

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 9, 2018

        To clarify, should really read: I hope Lefties get to peacefully protest, exercising their right to Freedom of Speech, without getting punched-out by Rightie fascists …

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  August 9, 2018

          Their freedom of speech doesn’t extend to preventing others from speaking. If they attempt that I hope they get jailed.

          • Joe Bloggs

             /  August 9, 2018

            Quite right Alan. We can’t have Righty fascists going around punching out peacefully protesting lefties. I hope the Righties get jailed too.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 9, 2018

              Absolutely. But unlikely to be necessary.

            • Corky

               /  August 9, 2018

              I wonder how many participants will open their speech with ”kia ora.”
              Brash could have some fun with that if he’s not first up.

            • “peacefully protesting lefties”?

              Which planet are they on?

            • phantom snowflake

               /  August 9, 2018

              @thesailor: Here you go, here’s a whole bunch of “peacefully protesting lefties” from just last week.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 9, 2018

              The loony Left can’t help themselves, phantom. Their screaming skulls will be there and it won’t be to debate intelligently.

        • Griff.

           /  August 9, 2018

          PartisanZ /
          It is amusing when you attack righties .
          You do know the excuse used to deny Brash a platform was threats of gun violence by as some authoritarian nutbar lefty.

          I consider you one of the most racist commentors on this blog
          Because you think 14% Maori should have special right to have equal power to the 86% of New Zealanders who are not Maori based only on race… Racism.

          This interpretation of The Treaty is not contained within the document that seeded sovereignty to the crown or within the much referenced principles since deduced by the courts.

          Apartheid is wrong no matter why you wish for it.
          Having heard the vicechancellor interviewed her real reason for de platforming Brash is he has a very good argument why an apartheid agenda should not be allowed room within our democratic institutions.

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 9, 2018

            Feel free to cite my actual words claiming Maori should have “equal power”?

            I believe Maori should have a greater say or what might perhaps be described as a more appropriate degree of shared power, because Te Tiriti o Waitangi did not cede sovereignty, only “right to govern”, and Article the Second guaranteed Tino Rangitiratanga …

            Ever encountered ‘Aboriginal or Native Title to Land’?

            “When English common law arrived in New Zealand, one of the principles it brought with it was the principle of aboriginal or native title to land … The so-called ‘Foreshore & Seabed Case’ in the 1990s arose not from Treaty Rights but from this doctrine of native title … English law has always explicitly recognised customary property rights and practices.”

            – Towards Democratic Renewal – Ch 13 – The Treaty & The Constitution – Palmer & Butler 2018 – pg 181

            As Dr Carwyn Jones explains in the same book, te Tiriti/the Treaty is also about current relationships … “The original Treaty promises … could not be resolved by bringing certainty to the status quo. Rather, what was needed was to give effect to the ‘sharing of public power’ implied by guarantees of kawanatanga and tino rangitiratanga. What was needed were constitutional approaches that were ‘truly bicultural’, sourced in two streams”

            This pertains to what the the Matike Mai Aotearoa Report says about our (essentially) Westminster form of government … to paraphrase … It not only will not, it CANNOT give effect to the promises of Te Tiriti …

            It’s not racism … it’s recognition of racial difference which is inescapably transcribed into our founding constitutional document …

            • Griff.

               /  August 9, 2018

              because Te Tiriti o Waitangi did not cede sovereignty, only “right to govern”,

              Sovereignty,the authority of a state to govern itself or another state.
              Sovereignty is what you signed away in the treaty.
              The History of the Crown hence our Constitution does not start with the Treaty
              When you signed the treaty you recognized UK law as recognized by the Crown from the Magna Carta onward has sovereignty over Maori

              The second clause is a recognition of Maori right to full citizenship and to have the right to the possession of private property .
              Rangatira as used in 1840 translates as a person who was not a slave=citizen .

              One could debate that as a Maori you should subject your self to chiefly authority under the Treaty. Feel free to recognize your chief can dictate your life but dont project that onto rights over the rest of us. That authority of a chief is in no way projected into the right of goverment over the rest of us either as a equal or in some sort of partnership with the Crown.

              Under the principles of the treaty goverment has a duty to consult with Maori
              but.
              The goverment has the sole right to govern under the sovereignty of the reigning monarch presently QEII New Zealand .

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 9, 2018

              Well said, Griff. But the Treaty industry deals in manufactured fantasy rather the obvious facts.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 9, 2018

              “obvious facts” are precisely what does not exist in this issue …

              It’s about the relationship … The ongoing relationship …

              If you acknowledge “principles of the Treaty of Waitangi” then you automatically acknowledge that meanings such as “Rangatira” are not stuck or stranded back in 1840 … just as individual and collective behaviors aren’t …

              Hence it’s time to understand and define the significance of the Treaty in Aotearoa NZ’s constitutionality as we complete the second decade of the 21st Century and head towards our bicentennial …

              And its the same for Rangatiratanga … your ‘subjugation to Chiefly authority’ proposition is founded in the same ‘stranded in 1840’ or what I’ve called the Stone-Age Culture argument …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 9, 2018

              The principles are a modern invention by activist judges – precisely the manufactured fantasy I referenced.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 9, 2018

              O ye of little faith in the very system you defend …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 9, 2018

              Good hit, PZ, but hopefully our legal system will correct itself in the not too distant future as it collides with reality. Brash’s Orewa speech was already such a collision.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 9, 2018

              I guess I can’t complain about Brash’s Orewa speech … Our collective “one step back” … It has incited some awesome legal and scholastic work in the Progressive direction … and possibly isolated out and/or clearly corralled and quantified ‘The Right Brigade’ …

              Qualification isn’t an issue with them … yous … whose arguments don’t contain ‘qualities’ worth speaking of …

              Ani Mikaere’s Bruce Jesson Lecture about “Pakeha Indigeneity” and the Matike Mai Aotearoa Report … a superb investigation which, in itself, just in the way it was done, demonstrates how Maori Law and Maori Lore can ‘inform’ English or NZ English Law …

              Likewise Palmer & Butler’s revised Constitutional proposal …

              Reading ‘Towards Democratic Renewal’ fills me with hope.

            • Griff.

               /  August 9, 2018

              Number of Maori in NZ 668,728.(2013)
              Number enrolled on the Maori roll 247,082(2018)
              I believe it is reasonable to think that the number who agree with your view is less than those on the Maori roll .
              Such a small minority who think they have such a large right to power because of race .

              Hence it’s time to understand and define the significance of the Treaty in Aotearoa NZ’s constitutionality as we complete the second decade of the 21st Century .

              We did .
              We held a constitution review in 2013 at the direction of the NZ Maori party with a panel made up of a majority of Maori separatists who tried to inflict their belief in a revisionist meaning of te Treaty on the rest of us . https://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/
              The result was to put it crudely fuck off .
              As has been the result of efforts to inflict Maori wards on councils when they have been put to Democratic vote.

              Democracy is not less than 247,000 part Maori get to have as much say as 4,350,000 New Zealanders because of some of their ancient ancestors race and a made up meaning read into an outdated document .
              We all have the same rights in this country. One man one equal vote. Democracy should never be distorted along racial lines. That system of governance is called apartheid.

              I am usually a pacifist. I would take up arms to fight against Apartheid in NZ . Democracy is worth fighting for.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 10, 2018

              You clearly don’t understand “my view” … You appear to be on your own phobic mission …

              The form of so-called ‘democracy’ we have now is only worth supporting if it proves in future that it can be significantly improved … IMHO …

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 9, 2018

            How do we know, without doubt, that the person (or online entity) who said “bring a gun” is “some authoritarian nutbar Lefty”?

  7. sorethumb

     /  August 9, 2018

    There having this debate and we won

  8. sorethumb

     /  August 9, 2018

    RNZ read a text on their panel discussion suggesting Brashes position was in inconsistent. They see the intrusion of Te Reo on English speaking radio as “speech” when the issue is understanding speech (plus identity).
    Don talked *about* the issue with Kim Hill.

  9. Gezza

     /  August 9, 2018

    Still waiting for a live link on their facebook page – anybody found one elsewhere yet?

      • Gezza

         /  August 9, 2018

        Just starting: Raucuous protestors but they’ve shut up now.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  August 9, 2018

          From what I’ve seen there the debate has demonstrated that Auckland is the proper university that Massey is not. The idiots seem to have been given the contempt they deserve.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 9, 2018

      Going up here shortly they say: https://m.facebook.com/events/2223627431257181/

      • Gezza

         /  August 9, 2018

        I’ve given up on them : stupid students. the herald link’s working.
        7.43 pm

        • Gezza

           /  August 9, 2018

          Oops – 6.43 pm

          • Corky

             /  August 9, 2018

            NewsTalk ZB working for me.

          • Gezza

             /  August 9, 2018

            What a shambles. Herald live stream ended during Brash’s speech so I missed most of it booting up the laptop to cotinue listening on. Most of the hecklers seem to be young white females taking it upon themselves to speak for minorities
            https://www.facebook.com/UoADebsoc/

            • Corky

               /  August 9, 2018

              Security was non existent. Don didn’t have to do much. ZB coverage closed before the event finished. ( after Don’s speech).

            • Gezza

               /  August 9, 2018

              I’m pissed off I missed Brash’s speech because he was just starting to some really daft stuff and I wanted to hear where the hell he was going with it. I hope some Uni Tech student has the foresight and ability to chuck the damn video up on YouTube. These live streams on facebook are a pain in the butt but outside coverage usually stuffs up somewhere as well – cutting out where they did was moronic.
              The Herald’s stream started before the Debating Society’s live stream did and I had no idea if those people even knew how to set one up.

            • Corky

               /  August 9, 2018

              Don obliquely hit Muslims then finished on a quote by Salman Rushdie.
              But, honestly, after his anger subsided, and the crowd got behind him, he won the night ( from what I observed while coverage was going). Protesters did Don’s opponents no good. They had great speeches. But I doubt anyone will remember them…only Don and the protesters will be remembered.

            • Gezza

               /  August 9, 2018

              No – it was when he started doing his thing about Jews being a very “successful culture” – he went on then about Muslims – but in both cases he actually sounded really uniformed. I don’t think he actually knows much about either culture – he’s got very superficial knowledge of things outside of being a white, well-off pakeha and an economist. Quite ignorant on other matters,. But I wanted to what it ended with.
              A formal structured debate like this isn’t the best format for someone like Don. A full hour with someone exposing how little he knows outside his bubble is the best – but you won’t get that as long as these stupid screaming young white sheilas keep screaming about knowing what brown people don’t want to hear.

            • Gezza

               /  August 9, 2018

              *But I wanted to know what it ended with.

            • Gezza

               /  August 9, 2018

              But – as regards the topic of the debate – whether PC (or protestors) are trying to shut down free speech – absolutely he won that one. They pissed everybody off but themseves.

            • Gezza

               /  August 9, 2018

              Hullo? Some wanker’s downticked me already. What the heck? 😮

            • Gezza

               /  August 9, 2018

              Security was non existent.
              I was pretty surprised they got in there with a megaphone. Hate to think where she hid it. But at least when they’d done their hooting and hollering eventually old Donny got to say his bit. Whatever it was. Maybe I heard most of it. But the end would’ve been interesting.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 9, 2018

              There’s a video link on that FB event page that seems to finish with Brash ending his speech. You know I don’t watch videos but you might want to see if it covers what you missed.

            • Gezza

               /  August 9, 2018

              Cheers Al. I’ll go and have a look.

            • Gezza

               /  August 9, 2018

              Yep. Looks good. Watching it now. Thanks. They’ve added the full video to their page. Good lads, lasses and whatevers.

  10. Tipene

     /  August 9, 2018

    No security: WTF?

    One of the audience members was technically assaulted by not 1 but 2 of the neo-fascists, and no-one got out of their seat to help him or back him up.

    The protesters act boldly because they believe themselves to be untouchable – until one day, they aren’t.

    I suspect that day is rapidly approaching – one can but hope.

    • Gezza

       /  August 9, 2018

      Well, to be fair somebody hiffed something at the chick with the megaphone at about 0.37 in the video
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12104338

      • Tipene

         /  August 9, 2018

        Gezza, 7 scraggly screechers (mostly female) walked into a room of people that outnumbered them something like 50:1, and boldly disrupted a meeting without consequence, being so “intimidating” to the point that only one person (partially) resisted them.

        If that isn’t example of the centre-right having their arses (again) well and truly handed to them in the public square, then I don’t know what is.

        7 vs 250 (mostly, as it turns out) eunuch guys – let that sink in for a minute.

        “Those who lack the courage will always find a philosophy to justify it.”
        ― Albert Camus

        • Gezza

           /  August 9, 2018

          What would you do? Beat the silly little plonkers up? There were a lot more protesters there than just those 7 young know-nothing exhibitionists. Imagine the kerfuffle that would result from say the police or security ejecting that lttle lot of screamers. Better to just let them piss everyone off. I am surprised there wasn’t any security there but I think in the end the fact they were irritating the hell out of everyone & winning Don’s argument was the best thing that could have happened. Stand down, soldier. You aren’t in any danger yet.

          • Gezza

             /  August 9, 2018

            If that isn’t example of the centre-right having their arses (again) well and truly handed to them in the public square, then I don’t know what is.
            There was a fair mix of folk in that audience, male & female, young & old & my guess would be from across the political spectrum. I got the impression anyone who wasn’t holding a placard wished they would all just shut up so they could hear the debate & what Brash had to say. Like me. He was easily the least interesting speaker of the lot. (Ok Satyanand was a bit boring too.)

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