A visiting Australian MP may say something I don’t like

This sort of attack in advance, based on guesses (at best) of what someone may say in the future, is becoming common:

Don’t fucking use “Free Speech” when you mean “racist bile”

At least be fucking accurate about what she is going to be doing.

I would be concerned if news media tried to be ‘accurate’ about what someone may say in the future.

Whether she speaks or not does not change the fact she is not speaking about free speech. She is a dog-whistling anti-Islam bigot. That is what she will be speaking about.

I presume Scott Milne is simply guessing, there is no way he can know in advance.

That’s just nonsense.

I have never liked Pauline Hanson as a politician, nor what she stands for.

But I have serious concerns about trying to shut down a visit to New Zealand of an Australian Member of Parliament, based on guesses of what she could say if she came here.

Unfortunately with the abiklity to speak freely on the Internet i think we will see more of these uninformed (they can’t see into the future) attacks on potential visitors to New Zealand.

Leave a comment

158 Comments

  1. David

     /  August 13, 2018

    Ardern needs to step up and nip this in the bud, make it clear for once that she supports free speech regardless of any offence taken. Bit of leadership from her would sort this escalating issue out once and for all, she flailed around last time she needs to be decisive and show some leadership for once….obviously only if she can fit it in between feeds.

    Reply
  2. NOEL

     /  August 13, 2018

    I wonder if Bishop will take her to task for interfering in a soverign countries politics?

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  August 13, 2018

      Who is the idiot who invited the mouthy, bigoted, racist Hanson ?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  August 13, 2018

        Someone who wants a soldier taking on snowflakes like you, head on.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 13, 2018

          Don’t be absurd and ignorant.

          The woman is a xenophobic, bigoted, has-been harridan. Those who feel that she is a soldier taking on snowflakes (what a cliche that is, used by those with a paucity of vocabulary and who are incapable of original thought) are, I hope, a small minority.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  August 13, 2018

            Does she have a point. Are some of her claims valid. Is there evidence to back up her claims?

            I would like you to answer those questions before diverting into a rant about vocabulary, cliches and original thought. It’s a little tiresome.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              No, she doesn’t have a point, there seems not to be evidence and the claims are not valid.

              Rant…do find another word, it’s very tiresome when someone uses the same old words all the time.

            • Gezza

               /  August 13, 2018

              Well, let her come & let her have her say. Not a lot of people think that much of her, but she’s not advocating violence or inciting hostility or contempt for people.

              Human Rights Act 1993

              61 Racial disharmony
              (1) It shall be unlawful for any person—
              (a) to publish or distribute written matter which is threatening, abusive, or insulting, or to broadcast by means of radio or television or other electronic communication words which are threatening, abusive, or insulting; or
              (b) to use in any public place as defined in section 2(1) of the Summary Offences Act 1981, or within the hearing of persons in any such public place, or at any meeting to which the public are invited or have access, words which are threatening, abusive, or insulting; or
              (c) to use in any place words which are threatening, abusive, or insulting if the person using the words knew or ought to have known that the words were reasonably likely to be published in a newspaper, magazine, or periodical or broadcast by means of radio or television,—
              being matter or words likely to excite hostility against or bring into contempt any group of persons in or who may be coming to New Zealand on the ground of the colour, race, or ethnic or national origins of that group of persons.

              Her views on some issues for Australia most likely won’t even be relevant for Kiwiland. While it’s not been perfect, we are streets ahead of the Ozzers in recognising the Treaty & trying to redress the damage done to Maori than they are with their tangata whenua.

            • Corky

               /  August 13, 2018

              It was during her maiden speech to Parliament in 1996 Hanson uttered her now infamous words: “I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians”.
              “They have their own culture and religion, form ghettos and do not assimilate,” Ms Hanson continued.

              https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?
              c_id=2&objectid=11906135

              ”Some 20 years ago a rookie independent politician from Queensland quickly shot to fame and power, forming her own political party as she insisted that Australia was in danger of being “swamped by Asians”. That was Pauline Hanson, who after a tumultuous career is in parliament again, but she has remained quiet on Australia’s demographic changes this time.

              New census results this week from Australia show that it is increasingly an Asian nation, with Asian migration outstripping European for the first time and Mandarin now the second-most spoken language after English.”

              https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/2100798/should-australia-fear-influx-chinese

              So we know Hanson’s claim was exaggerated. However, she and the Nation have every right to be worried if Chinese and Muslim immigration trends continue. The Chinese influence in Australian universities is testament to that. Muslim enclaves another. Ditto African gangs.

              And best you can do , Kitty:

              ”Rant…do find another word, it’s very tiresome when someone uses the same old words all the time.”

            • Corky

               /  August 13, 2018

              Copy and paste the first link.

      • Gezza

         /  August 13, 2018

        Who is the idiot who invited the mouthy, bigoted, racist Hanson ?

        “The Australian senator, whose One Nation party is best known for wanting tighter controls on immigration, is due to visit in November. She’s been invited by longtime admirer John Lehmann, president of the newly revived Government Accountability League, a group dormant for almost 20 years. “I spoke to her the other day and it looks pretty promising. I think we can safely say that it will be happening in Auckland,” the retired businessman said this week.

        Lehmann said Hanson would talk about the deterioration of the relationship between Australia and New Zealand. He blamed “backdooring” migrants who did a “penance” in New Zealand to qualify for life in Australia. Hanson’s office did not respond to queries about her visit.

        Lehmann’s group was first active in the second half of the 1990s. Membership peaked at about 13,000, he said. It shares many of Hanson’s views, including advocating for tougher rules on immigration. He put the group on ice to focus on being a father and parent but said he now has more time on his hands.

        Lehmann intended asking Auckland Council for a venue and said Goff had no right to withhold one that belonged to “the people” and to interfere with the democratic process of free speech. Goff said on Friday; “I don’t agree with much of what Pauline Hanson has to say, but she’s as free as anyone to apply to RFA (regional Facilities Auckland) for venue hire and they will consider it based on a range of grounds including security.”

        The office of the Human rights Commission said it was unlawful to deny people access to a place based on prohibited grounds of discrimination, which included nationality and citizenship.

        Hanson has been a polarising figure in Australian politics. She used her maiden speech in Parliament in 1996 to propose a big reduction in immigration, particularly from Asia, and criticised policies on indigenous affairs. Hanson is pushing for Australians to have a vote on migration at their next general election.”
        A bit more…
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12096650

        Reply
  3. FarmerPete

     /  August 13, 2018

    The problem with the left’s tendency to label every conservative as alt right is that the term loses meaning. Here is a genuine alt right person. I wouldn’t cross the street to hear her, but nor would I support her being banned. We have cranks of every stripe in this country who indulge their free speech rights every day and that’s the way it should be.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  August 13, 2018

      ‘The alt-right is working hard to cloak its desire to create chaos in the streets as free speech. They say they want to air their views, but it’s about provoking violent reactions. We all can easily see that this is not about free speech’. -W. Kamau Bell

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 13, 2018

        We have enough bigot of our own, surely.

        Reply
      • FarmerPete

         /  August 13, 2018

        The reactions are solely the responsibility of those who make them.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  August 13, 2018

          some people are easily ..led..

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 13, 2018

            Some people are easily led

            Indeed, especially via their religion. That is how ISIS succeeded.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  August 13, 2018

              you are one of them..Al…indoctrinated and in….denial.

              I guess at your age you can’t change because it would make you feel foolish for being duped …for so…long.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 13, 2018

              That’s fine, B. I’m happy and you are miserable.

            • Blazer

               /  August 13, 2018

              sorry to disappoint ..I’am not unhappy with life…as I said you are one of the les miserables,everyone who disagrees with your ultra conservatism is….loony,stupid,an idiot…etc.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 13, 2018

              Well, you come across as a bitter old Lefty misogynist with a grudge against bankers and businesses.

      • Trevors_elbow

         /  August 13, 2018

        That is a childs argument you quote. Can people not control their own responses?

        ..why does Bell drop the violence word in there? Is it because Bell wants violence to occur?

        Reply
  4. Seabird

     /  August 13, 2018

    She will find it difficult to find a venue to speak here as Goff will ban her from Auckland and she wont be able to speak at any Massey University venue either.

    Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  August 13, 2018

      Speak?
      Spew bile more.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 13, 2018

        That’s her idea of speech, Robert.

        She’s a has-been, fish and chip paper.

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 13, 2018

        Credibility check – which side is spewing bile here?

        Reply
        • MaureenW

           /  August 13, 2018

          Bizarre isn’t it? All the bile-spewers are those trying to shut down others, accusing them of spewing bile.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  August 13, 2018

            Yep, let them crack on. They will ultimately push fence sitters the RIGHT way.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              One can only hope that her extreme bigotry will show what this leads to and make people see that they don’t want to be like her.

              Wishful thinking, I know.

            • MaureenW

               /  August 13, 2018

              Hanson has been functioning in Australia for 20 years – she hasn’t turned the country into a nation of mini-me Hansons.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              Thank goodness for that.

            • MaureenW

               /  August 13, 2018

              @Kitty – Yes, thank goodness for that. Free speech doesn’t exclude fools and those you disagree with.

  5. Griff.

     /  August 13, 2018

    Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  August 13, 2018

      Looks a softy.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 13, 2018

        Looks a real charmer, too.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  August 13, 2018

          You probably don’t remember the Weather Underground. Look up some of their mughots on Google. Feral murdering Lefties. i don’t think Pauline is at that stage yet.
          And to think…this Weatherman was a teacher.

          https://nypost.com/2015/03/29/weatherman-underground-bomber-unmasked-as-city-schoolteacher/

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  August 13, 2018

            That was so long ago that I can’t see that it has any relevance to this discussion.

            It was 60s and 70s America, and we are now in the 21st century and live in NZ.

            One extremist is too small a sample to prove anything at all.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  August 13, 2018

              I think you misunderstand..it was a group.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              The teacher was an individual, one member of the group. You mentioned him, I didn’t. The link was to an article which was mainly about him and how he wasn’t caught..

              You said that ‘this Weatherman was a teacher’, which proves nothing at all.

            • Corky

               /  August 13, 2018

              At the beginning of the article:

              ”The “bomb guru” for the terrorist group the Weather Underground.”

              Such a nit picker.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 13, 2018

          You are indeed a nitpicker, nice of you to admit it.

          Now you are tying yourself in knots trying to wriggle out of your own muddled thinking,

          Even the name of the link showed that it was largely about that one man, I won’t ask what your point was because I am bored by this conversation going round in circles as you try to extricate yourself from a morass of verbiage.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  August 13, 2018

            Maybe if you stopped the personal abuse; concentrated on the topic, and not me as a poster…you may find you don’t have a problem.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              You cannot be serious.

              You can dish it out, but are much less keen on having it returned, like all wannabe bullies.

              Who was moderated and banned for personal abuse and lies ? Not me.

              You begin being abusive and then whine and bluster when I respond and give reasoned criticism, unlike your general, unspecific abuse

              Look at yourself in the mirror.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              If you can’t take it back, don’t dish it out !

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              You said ‘such a nitpicker’ then whine when it’s turned back on you; you were foolish enough not to say who the nitpicker was. It seems that it’s acceptable for you to say it, but not for someone else. Typical bullying behaviour.

            • Corky

               /  August 13, 2018

              So, can you give me a real example. What proceeded me calling you a nitpicker? Which, by the way is very tame in my opinion.

  6. Blazer

     /  August 13, 2018

    Pauline Hanson is a wonderful parody of an aussie politician,almost in the mould of ..Barry Humphries.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  August 13, 2018

      Oh, wouldn’t you love to see his version of her ?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 13, 2018

        She’s almost too awful to parody, how could anyone make her seem worse than she makes herself look ?

        Reply
  7. artcroft

     /  August 13, 2018

    Since Phil Goff kicked off his ban of M & S the left have really got on board with calling for speech bans. They sure didn’t need much convincing or encouraging. The Free Speech Coalition have their work cut out for them.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  August 13, 2018

      yes the right have always been strongly in favour of free speech…look at the KKK.they…hang..their hood on..it.

      Reply
    • MaureenW

       /  August 13, 2018

      The Phil Goff interference was instigated by the Islamic Association of NZ. With all and sundry climbing on the bandwagon, I’d suggest “follow the money”. This will be a well organised, well funded effort.

      Reply
      • Yes. The identity of those demanding the initial ban has been kept rather quiet, hasn’t it? And that organisation – representing a world-wide cult that violently crushes Free Speech wherever it goes – has now crept back into the woodwork, leaving all its witless Lefty stooges to take the well-justified flak. Will people never learn?

        There is only ever one reason for the cry to ban Free Speech, and that is to hide something certain people do not want the public to know; and those “certain people” in the current climate are invariably Muslims. What could it be that they don’t want us to know, I wonder?

        The best defence against this is for Free Speech to mean “exactly what it says on the tin”. Otherwise, as was well understood way back in Roman times, there arises the thorny question of “Who will guard the guards?” Are we to be ‘protected’ by the pals of those we need protecting from?

        Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  August 13, 2018

            Muslims are a handy hook for bigots to hang their bigotry on.

            I would say that if an Islamic Federation did instigate something like this, it would be refused..

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              They requested that the duo be refused visas, as did others, and this was refused. They have the right to make such requests, as everyone else does. This doesn’t mean that it will happen, and it didn’t. End of story.

            • MaureenW

               /  August 13, 2018

              @ Kitty – do you have some evidence that they gave up and forgot about it?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              No, that’s why I didn’t make the claim that this had happened. I don’t make claims that I can’t back up, unlike some people who don’t seem to bother to check their stories.

            • I think you are rather naive to believe that having failed in their attempt to shut the pair up by having them banned frrom the country, they then made no effort to influence Goff in banning them from the venue.

              I don’t imagine that could be proved either way, but experience on the front line in Europe and the UK shows quite plainly that Muslims do not give up that easily in their attempts to silence criticism of Islam. In fact they do not give up ever.

              As we speak, that old buffer BoJo in Britain is currently facing what amounts to virtually a rekindled, vindictive Star Chamber, whipped into a quasi-legal frenzy by a variety of well-placed Muslims, just for making a joke about letterboxes. Whatever you may think of the taste of the joke, that is not my idea of a Free Man’s civilisation.

              If you do not want NZ to be dragged to the brink of Civil War, where Britain currently teeters, you would be well advised to be more discerning in your analysis of Islam’s aims, and the methods employed by its Muslims.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 14, 2018

              I would advise you to learn the difference between the various branches of Islam.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 14, 2018

              I would advise you to learn the difference between the various branches of Islam.

              Also not to believe everything you see on Google. Much depends upon the reliability of the source.

              I approach these things with objectivity and ask myself if it seems remotely credible. If it doesn’t, it probably isn’t.

            • MaureenW

               /  August 13, 2018

              @sailor
              I suspect that is close to the truth. All this recent controversy that has erupted here over speakers who mention Muslims and migration was started by the complaints of the Islam Assn. I also suspect the effort to disrupt appearances of various speakers is well coordinated and funded. NZ is catching up with overseas trends. This won’t be coincidental.

        • Blazer

           /  August 14, 2018

          watch out Sailor..the muzzies are gunna git ya….all those years the commies tried to git..ya…soak it up.

          Reply
  8. Zedd

     /  August 13, 2018

    It could end up like the Canadian ‘Alt right pair’.. IF they make it a big deal, it will turn into one.. BUT if the media etc. just ignore her, then perhaps she might only get a ‘passing glance’ from most kiwis, who likely have other things to worry about. :/

    Pauline is really a ‘has-been’, just begging for attention & relevance !

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  August 13, 2018

      maybe she should move to USA & join MrTs ‘Alt-right resurgence’ alondside; KKK & neo-NAZIs !

      Reply
      • MaureenW

         /  August 13, 2018

        Again, your comments say more about you, than those you are trying to brand KKK and nazis. What are you?

        Reply
        • Zedd

           /  August 13, 2018

          ‘What are you?’ sez MW

          “I am the Zeddman.. I am the walrus.. coo coo kachooo !” 😀

          Reply
    • MaureenW

       /  August 13, 2018

      Who cares what she is? If you don’t like her, don’t go and see her. Branding her with names makes you the same as what you claim you are trying to shut down.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 13, 2018

        If someone wears Nazi insignia and carries a Nazi flag, it’s a fair bet that they are.

        Ditto the KKK. The dunce cap and robes are a bit of a hint.

        Reply
        • MaureenW

           /  August 13, 2018

          Haven’t seen Pauline Hansen in the white hood and robes, nor with nazi insignia. Guess if it’s good enough for Prince Harry …

          I know she wore a burka to Parliament, I guess that’s ok or is that offensive too?

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  August 14, 2018

            Straw men; who said that she had worn the white robe and Nazi insignia ? Not I.

            The burka thing was just childish attention seeking and scaremongering.

            Reply
  9. sorethumb

     /  August 13, 2018

    Pauline Hanson’s biographer, Anna Broinowski, summarises her nationalism as a deep nostalgia for the monocultural Anglo society of her childhood.7 The left and minority chauvinists disparage nostalgia for any European society. In reality it is noble to be nostalgic for the sense of belonging and community that Australia is losing. There is nothing wrong with such emotion as part of a social vision. But nostalgia can only serve that function if it is attached to analysis. That requires cultural expertise and vision. Politicians cannot be expected to cover all bases. They rely on intellectuals in the humanities and social sciences. The anti-national left’s domination of the universities helps explain why nationalist social analysis is weak.
    A clear factual narrative would explain how the cultural elite became alienated from the nation and how its affections can be reclaimed. There could also be a vision of how Australia can return to its traditional Western identity while maintaining its trade and diplomatic connections in the Asia-Pacific region. Educating the public would be a cultural investment with political benefits. The necessary resources – parliamentary and media platforms and funds for research – are being acquired through electoral victories. Political leaders could exploit cultural capital by the following:
    1. Talking about how cultural and racial diversity undermines social cohesion;
    2. Introducing the public to the meaning and benefits of nationhood and its reliance on a dominant and confident core ethnic identity;
    3. Explaining that multiculturalism is an ethnic hierarchy that subordinates Anglo Australians;
    4. Linking indigenous identity to Australia’s historic Anglo identity;
    5. Maintaining a rational rage against the corruption of the universities and proposing remedial policies;
    6. Working with responsible protest groups to defend the right to public assembly;
    7. Explaining how the ANZACs have been betrayed by abrogating the social contract between generations. They did not fight and die for open borders or multiculturalism or foreign ownership;
    8. Formulating and transmitting these messages would be made possible by working with nationalist think tanks to obtain analysis and personnel. The identitarian political front cannot advance far without drawing on advances in the culture war.

    https://sydneytrads.com/2017/12/24/symposium-ii-frank-salter-pt-i/

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  August 13, 2018

      I am angered by people who use the ANZACs as catspaws.

      This argument ignores the obvious fact that everyone in either country came here from somewhere else, anyway.

      Reply
      • sorethumb

         /  August 13, 2018

        It isn’t obvious at all that “everyone in either country came here from somewhere else, anyway”. They use the same argument on the British and New Zealanders. That is just an argument that blurs the line.

        The emphasis given to the immigrant origins of all New Zealanders and to the multicultural character of New Zealand distorts aspects of the country’s history. Maori were portrayed as simply one of many immigrant groups. The recasting of New Zealand as a multicultural society obscured the fact that British immigrants were strongly favoured throughout much of its history, with a variety of regulations restricting the settlement of non-British migrants. In the false presentation of history, New Zealanders of Anglo-Celtic heritage were rendered almost invisible because they did not fit the rhetoric about multiculturalism. To draw attention to such a large group would have weakened the case for New Zealand’s population being a varied one.[41]

        http://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/p109651/pdf/ch064.pdf
        That is from an article favouring refugees and multiculturalism

        Nor is it obvious that Australia needs a bigger population. As argued on the AM show this morning where an Australian noted that the solution to housing problems was multistory buildings where “you and your children go up in a lift” etc

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 13, 2018

          Why do people come to places and then try to prevent other people from doing the same ?

          Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  August 13, 2018

      These points might be rephrased to attempt to make sense of them –

      1. Talking about how cultural and racial diversity undermines projected and indoctrinated FAKE or ‘holographic’ dominant culture social cohesion;
      2. Introducing the public to the meaning and benefits of nationhood and its irrelevance to a dominant and confident core ethnic identity;
      3. Explaining that multiculturalism is an ethnic hierarchy that eqivilates Anglo Australians; while pretend monoculturalism subordinates all but the dominant culture.
      4. Wrongly and abhorrently linking indigenous identity to Australia’s historic Anglo identity;
      5. Maintaining a irrational rage against one of the specified roles of universities and proposing retrograde policies;
      6. Working with responsible protest groups to defend the right to public assembly. Responsible protest groups come from all ethnicities and political ilks. No problem.
      7. Explaining how the ANZACs were betrayed many times during and since their invention, especially by the general abrogation of our social contract commonly known as ‘neoliberalism’ by one particular generation. They knew not what they fought and died for then, and nor do we dare acknowledge it today; Blood for Butter. Blood for Britain’s Protein and Wool markets. If open borders and multiculturalism and foreign ownership were or are such a problem for ANZACs, why don’t we hear about it from the RSA and, for that matter, the Army?
      8. Formulating and transmitting these messages WILL NOT be made possible by working with nationalist ‘Think Tanks’ (or any other Thunk Tunks) because no ‘Nationalist’ ones really exist – Think Tanks being systems maintenance, status-quo preservation and consequent government policy formulation tools – and those vaguely Nationalist ones that do exist don’t really ‘think’ and therefore can’t really obtain analysis and … whatever is meant by “personnel” in this context … Political candidates perhaps?

      9. “The identitarian political front cannot advance far without drawing on advances in the culture war.” – This has surely got to be a separate statement in the category ‘Complete & Utter Nonsense’?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 13, 2018

        Which of the many races in NZ did not originally come from somewhere else ?

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  August 13, 2018

          It’s not whether they came here from elsewhere Miss Kitty, its their ethno-cultural ‘status’ or claim to indigeneity … hapu iwi Maori are tangata whenua … the ‘people of the land’ inhabiting these islands when Pakeha arrived …

          Do you likewise and therefore think that Hawaiian, Tongan, Samoan, Fijian and other Pacific Island peoples have no indigenous claim?

          What about the people of Spain, Italy or Old Mother England?

          Reply
  10. sorethumb

     /  August 13, 2018

    “The cultural front can also help the political front by providing able and loyal staffers. Incompetent or subversive staff are a frequent reason minor parties fail. Patriotic parties must be able to draw on a pool of speech writers, policy analysts and media people who not only support conservative and nationalist values but are able to defend them with social and economic arguments. Promising politicians are too often hobbled, diverted, or hijacked by opportunists.
    By constructing parallel institutions in education, media and welfare – all cultural projects – the movement would be better placed to retain its core values as it grows, resisting the temptation to compromise with “big tent” politics. The goal should be to roll back the subversive aspects of the cultural revolution that began in the 1960s while accepting change that is benign or harmless.
    Parallel cultural institution should be of sufficiently high quality to be worthy of large investments and philanthropic bequests. Projects should be positive, not reactive. Wealthy individuals will only support groups whose operations are scalable, i.e. whose output rises with investment. Thus they will look for talented individuals and organisations whose performances can be broadcast on radio, television or internet. In the early phase the key ingredient is quality, not quantity.
    https://sydneytrads.com/2017/12/24/symposium-ii-frank-salter-pt-i/

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  August 13, 2018

      Cool … a Right-Wing “Long March through Institutions” …

      The Very Lonely Long March through Institutions?

      Reply
  11. phantom snowflake

     /  August 13, 2018

    “Pauline Hanson has been invited by…” Look what’s crawled out of the woodwork: the ‘Government Accountability League’ aka John Lehmann. Best known for his “Dob A Wog” campaign, advertising meetings “for New Zealanders only” and this absolute gem he posted on Paula Bennett’s Facebook page: a “Bit of sexual violence never hurt anyone Paula.
    You should try a bit. Lol .”
    Quick, where’s the bug spray?!

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  August 13, 2018

      Fallacy of Composition
      Logical Form:

      A is part of B.

      A has property X.

      Therefore, B has property X.

      Reply
  12. phantom snowflake

     /  August 13, 2018

    John Lehmann gives his expert view on clothing/fashion:

    like a lot of people I’m tired of wandering around and seeing people dressed up as Dulux colour charts in all these crazy outfits and you wonder actually where you are at times.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12096650

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  August 13, 2018

      got a pic of Mr Lehmann .

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 13, 2018

        Who gives a damn what he thinks about the way people dress ? It’s none of his business.

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 13, 2018

        No, but he nominates Saint Jacinda as his favourite politician. Bit of a shocker for you, B?

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  August 13, 2018

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 13, 2018

            The chiefs soon discovered selling women and other people’s land was more lucrative than fighting, B.

            Reply
            • sorethumb

               /  August 13, 2018

              Dr Maynard of the French whaler Adele? was picked up by the chief to be taken to Port Levy. The jolly boat was rowed by 15 perfectly naked women. I’ll find the full quote later. Sounds like a good night all round?

            • sorethumb

               /  August 13, 2018

              Of course he may have had a pair of x ray glasses on?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              What ? those ones that were advertised in old comics that meant that you could look at people and see them naked under their clothes ? The pictures also show a hand with bones showing…they were of the seamonkeys era.

            • sorethumb

               /  August 13, 2018

              Yes those ones. The key word in those ads was “imagine”.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 13, 2018

              @Alan – “The chiefs soon discovered selling women and other people’s land was more lucrative than fighting, B.”

              Yet to this day no disapproval, blame, shame or guilt attaches to those who wanted to buy the women and children to ‘fulfill’ their nefarious, prurient, deviant and often sexually-transmitted-disease infected ‘desires’ …

              Somehow, miraculously, the ‘demand side’ remains free of criticism and judgement …

              Only those faced with the despicable foreign ‘culture’, its attractive, more advanced technology and the alien, non-human element ‘money’ are deemed ‘responsible’ …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 13, 2018

              @PZ, I make no judgements about these human transactions where no doubt love, lust, greed, curiosity, power, hope and despair played all their usual roles. I use them only to counter Blazer’s gross ideological simplification above.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 13, 2018

              There is enough “judgement” implied in your comment to make my assumption perfectly valid Alan …

              It’s like saying: They were really lucky to get Pilgrims. They might have got Conquistadors …

              That’ll be why ‘Thanksgiving’ is so universally liked, admired and celebrated among Native Americans …

              https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/thanksgiving-2017-native-americans-videos-what-do-they-think-racism-columbus-redskins-a8070611.html

            • Blazer

               /  August 13, 2018

              @Al…your new default position is to declare ,unpalatable truth…’over simplifying’.-translation=’ have no real counter that I can substantiate.’

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              There’s a leering man gazing at a girl and others looking at a hand whose bones show (the ads are on Google)

              The sea monkeys who LOOK like monkeys and wear crowns are on Google, too. They swim like people and live in a castle. How could people have been so gullible ?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 13, 2018

              @PZ, no, the judgement is solely in the eye of the reader – you. Mine is a simple statement of fact. Chief Pomare who is commemorated in the road-name near me ran a very successful brothel. No doubt others did too.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 13, 2018

              Seamonkeys?
              The reality, brine shrimps, are infinitely more wonderful than the stupid caricatures pictured: be-crowned sea-horse-people) so those children who sent their pocket-money in were well rewarded, if only they realised it, by the dried daphnia eggs they received. Aye.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 14, 2018

              @Alan – ” … ran a very successful brothel. No doubt others did too.”

              Momentarily satiating the pathological ‘demand side’ of Wetiko Disease you continue to avoid acknowledging …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 14, 2018

              Blame Darwin, PZ. Or the universe maker. After the dinosaurs got wiped out humans decided it was better to rule nature than be ruled by it.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 14, 2018

              No … Humans aren’t stupider than dinosaurs are they?

              If a giant meteor strikes Earth our attempts to rule nature are going to look pretty pathetic … and we’re gonna look pretty extinct …

              That’s got nothing to do with your implied defense of the ‘demand side’ of sick human nature while you vilify its ‘supply side’ …

              Why can’t you just admit it … The filthy, degenerate British, European and American ships’ vermin, settler scum and hypocrite missionaries who ‘wanted’ and purchased Maori women and children were as bad if not worse than the Maori who supplied them …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 14, 2018

              Well, I’m quite happy to admit they were equally bad or good since I have never thought or said either were bad or good. And I wouldn’t insult either the way you just did. I think both sides were probably pretty courageous and I respect that.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 14, 2018

              I know … You can’t admit it because it doesn’t fit the Right Brigade’s revisionist history …

              All English and Western development MUST automatically have been good for the savage Natives, eh what?

              It was only their fighting amongst themselves, their ‘Maori Genocide’ that depopulated them … Oh, along with “Daughter Slaughter” of course …

              It wasn’t anything WE did. We didn’t debase them personally, or their culture and language. We never murdered them. We didn’t infect them with our venal diseases. We didn’t supply the muskets. We didn’t supply the Monarchy model … The aspiration to be the one-and-only, hereditary, God-ordained Ruler …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 14, 2018

              You are confused. Differences in quality of cultures doesn’t mean people themselves are necessarily better or worse.

            • PartisanZ

               /  August 14, 2018

              Don’t get me wrong Alan … It’s “satire” … You know … Like Sir Bob Jones uses …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 14, 2018

              No, it’s just wrong as I’ve noted.

          • sorethumb

             /  August 13, 2018

            It’s absolutely disgusting what your ancestors did Blazer.

            Reply
      • Gezza

         /  August 13, 2018

        got a pic of Mr Lehmann

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  August 13, 2018

          Sorry – the link was to a facebook page for the Government Accountability League. It might no longer be active. But this is the pic in on the page if you search John Lehmann Government Accountability League .

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  August 13, 2018

          And from “Public Posts”

          John Lehmann‎ to Newstalk ZB
          7 August at 14:03 ·
          to phil.goff
          Dear Mr Mayor.

          The Government accountability League, is having a public meeting in Takapuna, at 7 pm November 24th.

          Guest speaker, among others, Is Australian senator Pauline Hanson.

          Wondered if you would like to attend as a guest speaker too.

          As you have firm views on freedom of speech, or what appears to be censorship based on your own thoughts.

          A great place to put the record right, or put your views why its your job to say who can speak at publicly owned facility’s.

          Also explain when freedom of thought and speech should be controlled by politics , PC culture, how you see yourself in your current roll.

          The will be a Q&A time, but only in note form, via the MC.

          We hope you take up our offer and explain your stance in freedom of speech, and what you stand for.

          Cheers
          John Lehmann
          President
          NZ Government accountability league


          Seems fair. If he is fair.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  August 13, 2018

            He looks a lot like an archetypal Boer. I wonder what his background is?

            Reply
  13. NOEL

     /  August 13, 2018

    Aren’t the Aussies great for using the ANZACs when it suits but you can never get them to discuss “abrorgating” the reciprocal relationship of the SCV.

    Reply
  14. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 13, 2018

    There is no problem with sub-cultures that are compatible with our national cultures and values. There are huge problems with sub-cultures that are hostile to them. There is nothing racist about that analysis and opinion.

    That is the essence of the issue.

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  August 13, 2018

      One problem with compatible sub cultures is ethnocentrism. We have Chinese allowed to live here as a virtual colony. A point argued in Noelle McCarthy’s programme on immigration was that it is wrong to fret about who is buying what: we should look at people as people only. The problem is that we may be importing a whole lot of nationalists with different allegiances to our own.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 13, 2018

        I don’t think that is a major problem from what I’ve seen in Remuera with its large Chinese population. There is a lot of integration and inter-racial friendships and the younger generations will see themselves as Kiwis. Religious differences seem to be a bigger permanent divider than ethnicity.

        Reply
        • sorethumb

           /  August 13, 2018

          China’s emergence as a world power is resulting in more Chinese New Zealanders feeling a greater sense of attachment to China than to New Zealand, a study has found.

          More than 94 per cent of Chinese permanent residents and more than half of those with NZ citizenship told University of Auckland researchers that they felt a greater sense of belonging and identified more with their country of origin than New Zealand.

          Between 2009 and last year, the researchers interviewed 90 migrants originally from China, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

          “An overwhelming 94.5 per cent stated they were Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Konger, while only 5.5 per cent said they somehow felt they belonged to both New Zealand and their country of origin,” the report said.

          The study also found that Chinese migrants aged 15 to 44 felt significantly more attached to their homeland identity than those aged 45 and over.

          Manying Ip, the professor of Asian studies who led the project, described this as “surprising” and said the finding contradicted earlier assumptions that older Chinese migrants were more conservative and therefore felt more attached to their homelands.

          The finding is surprising in that it contravenes accepted migration and acculturation theories,” she said.
          “It indicates that the younger cohort are more attached than their older counterparts to their native homeland and feel their identity is more Chinese than anything else.”

          Professor Ip said the finding carried “significant implications for future interpretation of migrants’ sense of allegiance and their acculturation process
          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/multiculturalism/news/article.cfm?c_id=58&objectid=10783815

          Reply
          • sorethumb

             /  August 13, 2018

            NZ residency -please take one [old type toilet paper in public toilet]
            This country is wallowing in blindness and self interest.

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  August 13, 2018

            So, extrapolating that out, it would be safe to assume we may have a problem with Chinese immigration, especially in times of international conflict. Maybe that’s why Chinese immigrants started the Chinese Party.

            It’s boils down to a numbers game. Once immigrants have the numbers, they start demanding and annexing their surround area.

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 13, 2018

            The study showed a huge difference once those immigrants gained citizenship and an even bigger shift towards NZ for those who had studied here. Neither did it show anything about those born here. It doesn’t support what you are trying to claim.

            Reply
            • sorethumb

               /  August 13, 2018

              Those who “gained citizenship” are those who chose citizenship. But even then most are more Chinese than NZr.

              “If there is ever a conflict … and I have to choose one country, I will still go for China as I am Chinese.”

              Even if they are “NZr” they are of a different ethnicity with different allegiances. As I said people are ethnocentric. As shown by the study (above).

              Nz is “Overtourismed” and is experiencing a downfall, but you can bet ti isn’t the Chinese market and that is serviced by Chinese.

            • Gezza

               /  August 13, 2018

              As I said people are ethnocentric.

              Bullshit. I’m not Irish. Or Norwegian. I’m a Pakeha Kiwi – a New Zealander of Irish & Viking Heritage. I don’t speak Irish and I don’t speak Norwegian & those tribal connections are not close anymore.

            • sorethumb

               /  August 13, 2018

              Nearly all major conflicts across the globe, both current and historical, are characterized by individuals defining themselves and others by group membership. This existence of group-biased behavior (in-group favoring and out-group hostile) has been well established empirically, and has been shown to be an inevitable outcome in many evolutionary studies. Thus it is puzzling that statistics show violence and out-group conflict declining dramatically over the past few centuries of human civilization. Using evolutionary game-theoretic models, we solve this puzzle by showing for the first time that out-group hostility is dramatically reduced by mobility. Technological and societal advances over the past centuries have greatly increased the degree to which humans change physical locations, and our results show that in highly mobile societies, one’s choice of action is more likely to depend on what individual one is interacting with, rather than the group to which the individual belongs. Our empirical analysis of archival data verifies that contexts with high residential mobility indeed have less out-group hostility than those with low mobility. This work suggests that, in fact, group-biased behavior that discriminates against out-groups is not inevitable after all.
              https://www.nature.com/articles/srep17963

              There is an admittal.

      • sorethumb

         /  August 13, 2018

        As a rule the bulk of studies point to ethnic diversity being negatively correlated to social cohesion, however we are all jolly when we are on holiday. The lower down the income level you go the more competition is a factor.
        Take tourism for instance, there has been a downturn lately but you can bet that does not apply to Chinese. The Chinese are buying up all over the country and Chinese are serving the Chinese market.

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  August 13, 2018

          @sorethumb – “As a rule the bulk of studies point to ethnic diversity being negatively correlated to social cohesion …”

          How the heck is “social cohesion” measured? And what is it measured against?

          The optimal social cohesion being what? Australia in 1954?

          Until convinced otherwise I’ll assume one of the major facets of the social cohesion you’re talking about is LACK of ethnic diversity, Right?

          That’s what’s commonly known as self-fulfilling prognostication.

          Reply
  15. sorethumb

     /  August 13, 2018

    We have Australia’s multicultural policy to blame for the decline of SCV.

    Is NZ’s ‘special bond’ with Australia a thing of the past?

    Kathryn Ryan
    What is driving this?
    Bernard Salt
    There has been a fundamental shift in the Australian demography particularly the last 10 years or so preliminary results from the 2016 census released one montht ago show something quite unique. The western half of the country (Western Australia, South Australia and the Northern Territories) had quite a strong Anglo base (we draw our migrants from Anglo countries). The eastern side of the nation (particularly Victoria and New South Wales) are more likely to be Indian and Chinese . So the ethnic base (the source from which we are drawing migrants) has shifted in the last decade or so. I will say also the flow of Kiwis has reversed (the eartquake and a renewed energy with New Zealand). So there seems to be an ethnic basis to t(not a parting of the ways) but a slowing of the bond which had been there literally since resettlement.

    KR
    What is driving the politics?

    BS
    Well I do think the demographics are important : our shift in focus towards Asia (with the Chinese and the Indians). I don’t think it is so much a rejection of NZ as a pivot towards Asia. There was a shift away from the UK when Britain joined the EU. In some ways you could argue the same is happening here a shift towards Asia: Asian migration, Asian students, Asian implantation [ ?] in fact. Our attention has been taken by South East Asia and as a consequence the politics may flow from that shift in thinking.

    KR
    The idea of New Zealanders being special is dissapearing apace (and was only based on a handshake between Whitlam and Kirk in the 1970s) and was always a matter of goodwill.

    BS
    “politics pushing in that direction”
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201844412/is-nz-s-special-bond-with-australia-a-thing-of-the-past

    Reply
  16. sorethumb

     /  August 13, 2018

    In the ethnic councils, television, university common room people are on their best behaviour. Real life at the bottom has a greater element of struggle and need to belong to a close society.

    Ethnocentrism is not a White disorder and evidence is emerging that immigrant communities harbour invidious attitude towards Anglo Australians, disparaging their culture and the legitimacy of their central place in national identity.[xxiii]
    https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2010/06/the-misguided-advocates-of-open-borders/

    Young women of Latin and Turkish origin living in Melbourne find it hard to see any Australian culture. Some see a vacuum; others see a bland milieu populated with ‘average-looking’ people. In contrast, they feel that their own migrant cultures are strong. They ‘get through more’. If there is any Australian culture it is, in their opinion, losing ground to migrant cultures.

    https://zuleykazevallos.com/2012/10/06/its-like-were-their-culture/

    Reply
  17. Duperez

     /  August 13, 2018

    Muldoon’s quip about New Zealanders crossing the Tasman to Australia raising the IQ of both countries comes to mind. The visit of Ms Hanson will do wonders for theirs but deflate ours.
    Disagree with the venue being a problem, there must be a sympathetic farmer with a paddock. The way things have gone lately though MPI could step in quoting some threat of Mad Cow Disease.
    For anyone who considers my comments nasty and beyond the pail, compare this minute contribution to that of Hansen.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  August 13, 2018

      ”For anyone who considers my comments nasty and beyond the pail, compare this minute contribution to that of Hansen.”

      Can you give us an example, Duperez?

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  August 13, 2018

        Hansen has made many contributions to public discussion which have been negative and destructive. My effort here is insignicant. Just milking the silly cow analogy but hoping to not kick the bucket.

        U

        Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 13, 2018

      You pail left me pale, Duperez. Are you kicking the bucket?

      Reply
    • MaureenW

       /  August 13, 2018

      There are home-grown lunatics on both sides of the Tasman.

      Reply

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