Open Forum – Monday

13 August 2018

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75 Comments

  1. PartisanZ

     /  August 13, 2018

    “I’d be both a fool and wrong if I thought I was right all the time”

    – Quote I attribute to myself

  2. PartisanZ

     /  August 13, 2018

    “You have two choices in life when it comes to truthful observations by others that anger you: You can be ashamed and cover it up by letting your pride take you in the extreme opposite direction, in order to make the point that they are wrong.

    Or, you can break down the walls of pride by accepting vulnerability as a strength, not a weakness. As you walk through your vulnerability, you will meet humility on the way to courage.

    From here, courage allows us to let go of shame and rise higher into the person we are meant to be, not the person that needs to be right. This is the road to confidence and self worth.”

    ― Shannon L. Alder

  3. Blazer

     /  August 13, 2018

    Country Calendar was interesting the other night.
    Showed the Bostock familys organic crop and chicken operation.

    A 100 mil plus business developed by the family and a realistic approach to sustainable,value added product.

    NZ organic green grocer to..the world.Theres a future.

    • Gezza

       /  August 13, 2018

      Might have a look at that later on TV1 On Demand. Price is usually the problem. Less well-off folks will buy what’s cheapest.

      • NOEL

         /  August 13, 2018

        About 5 dollars more than standard free range. $21 vs $16

      • Blazer

         /  August 13, 2018

        less well off are not their market.The wealthy international market can’t get enough.

  4. Griff.

     /  August 13, 2018

    Extreme weather finally brings home the reality of climate change

    EUROPE swelters. Greece, California and even the Arctic burn. Following record-breaking flooding, Japan is now being hit by a record-breaking heatwave.

    No one can say we weren’t warned. The reality of human-made climate change has been apparent for decades to anyone with even a tenuous grip of basic physics and chemistry.

    Climate science remains an imperfect science. Researchers have been unable to directly attribute specific weather events to a warming planet even as they build evidence of an overall trend, a reticence seized upon by climate denialists as evidence of uncertainty in the science.

    No longer. It seems likely that climate change made the current European heatwave twice as probable, and that disruption from similar extreme weather is a certainty we must now adapt to (see “Climate change made Europe’s heatwave twice as likely to happen” and “Our buildings make this heatwave worse – here’s how to cool them down”). Less certainly, rumblings of change deep in the north Atlantic Ocean suggest far worse is to come (see “The Atlantic conveyor belt has been slowly shutting down for over a century”).

    Human-made climate change risks becoming a human tragedy. Those who wilfully deny its reality, or play the fool for the crowd or in defence of vested interests, must be called out.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23931892-600-extreme-weather-finally-brings-home-the-reality-of-climate-change/

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  August 13, 2018

      Climate change has been happening since there has been a climate to change.

      People don’t deny that, they question the chances of human beings being able to do anything about it.

      • Griff.

         /  August 13, 2018

        Slowly
        Your opinion is at odds with the national scientific body’s of every county in the world .
        That makes your opinion as silly as that of a flat earth nut bar.

    • Richard

       /  August 13, 2018

      Bollocks

      • Gezza

         /  August 13, 2018

        Something a little lacking in that argument, I feel. Mainly the argument.

        • David

           /  August 13, 2018

          I thought he was quite on point, little more needed said and I am guessing it was aimed at the resident climate change disciple.

      • Griff.

         /  August 13, 2018

        Bollocks ?
        Thanks for the memorable contribution to debate.
        At just the level I have come to expect having seen such erudite comments thousands of times.

        Hello ostrich’s
        Climate change is only going to get worse.
        A lot worse.
        This is not a guess it is a well supported conclusion based on simple physics.
        I wish you a long life ….
        You can look forward to your children ,grandchildren,and great grandchildren thinking you are a bunch of selfish wankers for fucking the planet up for them.

    • chrism56

       /  August 13, 2018

      How are you getting on with your link about SOI predicting global temperatures, Griff? Found a schoolkid to do the maths for you? Or are you just going to pretend it never happened.
      You can quote all the papers you like, but the actiual data says it ain’t there

      • Griff.

         /  August 13, 2018

      • chrism56

         /  August 13, 2018

        Oh, its seven months from your cartoonists website is it now? Your great Trenbath paper said three months. So the science either isn’t settled or just wrong. And it isn’t GISTemp or anything recognizable, it is some made up derivative.

        • Griff.

           /  August 13, 2018

          ROFL

          GTTA global troposphere temperatures anomaly.
          LTT lower troposphere
          The temperatures are de trended troposphere satellite data .

          First derivative

          is the slope of the tangent line. to the function at the point x. To put this in non-graphical terms, the first derivative tells us how whether. a function is increasing or decreasing, and by how much it is increasing or decreasing.

          It is pointless trying to explain high school statistics to someone who has problems with basic math a nine year old can grasp .

          Satellite temperatures lag the surface temperatures as you can see from this

          All you need to know is the graph tells us troposphere temps lag SOI by 7 months.
          Which confirms the paper linked to prior that gave a three month lag for surface temps with SOI.

          Of course I dont expect you to admit you are wrong as usual .
          Instead I fully expect more pigeon chess ,denial of basic science,math and total inability to understand even basic facts.
          As a result
          You will get more laughter at your stupidity that will trigger you spurting even more dribbling .

          By the way .
          The web site’s proprietor is.
          Dr John Cook.
          Research assistant professor at the Center for Climate Change Communication at George Mason University.

          • chrism56

             /  August 13, 2018

            And if you are going to post graphs use current data, you know the ones showing the decline 2016 to 2018.

        • chrism56

           /  August 13, 2018

          I was hoping you would defend that paper you posted the graph from Griff. You do know who wrote it don’t you – three CLIMATE SCEPTICS.
          http://mclean.ch/climate/docs/McLean_deFreitas_Carter_JGR_2009.pdf
          So they do know what they are talking about, as they must be because you quoted them. And it shows you are a hypocrite for all your name calling.

          John Cook got his degree in psychology didn’t he? A real climate science subject.

          • Griff.

             /  August 13, 2018

            Do you have a point ?
            You said a moment a go the graph was bullshite .
            You are now saying the opposite.
            The conclusion of the paper by the two dead nutbars plus one was bullshite as they tried to claim an osculation* was driving temperatures up .

            Don’t change the fact that temperatures lag SOI as their representation of the data shows .

            Research assistant professor at the Center for Climate Change Communication at George Mason University.
            Another case of gibbering.

            Dr Cook’s expertise is studying climate change denying whacko’s and examining their delusions .
            He is an expert at debunking dribble from nutbars hence the doctorate in physiology.

            * Another big word go find an adult if you dont understand why an osculation can not drive a trend .

          • chrism56

             /  August 13, 2018

            No Griff, you used a paper by sceptics to claim that the derivatives of trailing averages had a seven months offset (it is a trailing offset in engineering terms because some of the data is smoothed from before the event) correlation that was different from your original claim that there was a three month lag between SOI and GTTA. I could paste the link to your comments but you would claim black is white.
            You also didn’t read in the paper.
            “The next step was to determine correlation coefficients for various time lags between a change in SOI and a corresponding change in GTTA. A 5-month lag produced the best match of key turning points but the overall correlation of 0.223 is quite weak. ” So there was a very weak correlation until they played with the maths.
            And the fact that you quote sceptics (which I never used to support the case) shows you must be one of the whackos the cartoonist writes about – at least in the papers he doesn’t have to retract.

            • Griff.

               /  August 13, 2018

              ROFLMAO.
              PIGEON CHESS .
              No I did not read the paper I have better things to do than read known nonsence from nutters .
              I merely used the graph to illustrate the lag between global temperatures and ENSO… that is well supported and can be found in many papers .
              http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/papers/2000JD000298.pdf
              http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa9c5b

              The original paper I linked to used gisstemp.
              That is surface temperatures that lag by about three months .
              GTTA global troposphere temperature anomaly is satellite temperatures that lag behind slightly more .

              The point was the July temperatures were effected by a La Nina so are expected to be colder than last year or the year before .
              This is a fact if its three months or six months lag.
              So the fact that July was only the forth warmest on record is not a surprise to anyone expect nut bars who get all confused about natural variability from a know cause and the global warming trend.

            • chrism56

               /  August 14, 2018

              Oh – the teenage girl is back with her tanties. And posting pictures from papers he won’t read. Worried it will over tax the brain cell?
              Anyway I will leave you to your misery. Got a lot of fossil fuels to burn to keep the electricity going because wind is so unreliable.

  5. Zedd

     /  August 13, 2018

    I just watched this video; Med-cannabis V Opiates/opioids for pain.. NZ still dragging our A

    • Corky

       /  August 13, 2018

      Watch Country Calendar next week, Zedd. They are doing Hemp Seed Oil. Not quite what you are after, but it still has many benefits of the Cannabinoid family.

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 13, 2018

      Great video clip Zedd … Thanks.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 13, 2018

        So we know … and they know … and we know they know …

        Only viable conclusion: Powerful corporate-capitalist-political elite vested interests?

        It can’t even be inertia any longer. No inertia could possibly last this long …

  6. lurcher1948

     /  August 13, 2018

    NAZIS are not that staunch or brave…just saying it must be all that free speech
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/protesters-outnumber-nazis-unite-the-right-ii-washington-dc_us_5b7042efe4b0bdd0620a179a

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  August 13, 2018

      I remember when there was some kind of festival in Christchurch with different groups. The National Front turned up with their banners. Everyone totally ignored them and walked past without giving them a look. The NF stood there looking very foolish indeed.

      • Corky

         /  August 13, 2018

        And that’s how it should be. Pity the Left hasn’t the brains to see that.

        • Gezza

           /  August 13, 2018

          Yes. They’ve never attracted anything but scorn and derision here.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 13, 2018

          That’s an absurd generalisation about the Left; all generalisitions are absurd.

          • Corky

             /  August 13, 2018

            Generalisation? That would be a moot point. The Left seem hellbent on being moral crusaders. And like the Crusaders they have little compunction using violence and general feralness.

            Why are we having the debate on free speech? Well, not because of Righties.

            • Gezza

               /  August 13, 2018

              There are a heck of a lot of people on the left & centre-left – & sod-all who actually turn up to demonstrate and create a ruckus. The msm creates the impression there are a lot more like that than there actually are.

              Ferals are ferals. They’re not lefties.

            • Corky

               /  August 13, 2018

              ”Ferals are ferals. They’re not lefties.”

              I was meaning as general way of behaving( feralness).

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 13, 2018

              Name 10 who are hellbent on being moral crusaders.

            • Corky

               /  August 13, 2018

              Antifa.

            • Gezza

               /  August 13, 2018

              I was meaning as general way of behaving (feralness).

              Nup. Don’t buy it, son. Ferals here is white trash – young lefties these days are often are the good old well-off yuppies’ kids who hate their separated parents. Think Millie.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 13, 2018

              The ferals you describe are the loony Left, G.

            • Gezza

               /  August 13, 2018

              The ferals I describe are the white trash p addicts bottom feeders thugs and violent types.

          • robertguyton

             /  August 13, 2018

            ” all generalisitions are absurd.”
            Love your work, Kitty; all of it.

            • Gezza

               /  August 13, 2018

              (Sometimes I’m a secret admirer too)

            • Gezza

               /  August 13, 2018

              (Quite like Corky sometimes too. It’s complicated – ok? 😕 )

    • Zedd

       /  August 13, 2018

      they can all thank MrT for this ‘reemergence’/promotion of the Fascist; Alt-right.. in USA but perhaps in other places too ? 😦

      when asked about a previous march, he said there were ‘good & bad’ on both sides.. inc. his mates at Breitbart/KKK/neoNazis !

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 13, 2018

        He’s one up on you then, Z, because you think there is only good on your side.

        • Zedd

           /  August 13, 2018

          ‘…because you think there is only good on your side.’ sez AW

          “ditto” sez I&Zd :/

  7. Blazer

     /  August 13, 2018

    hows biz confidence these days…

    • Gezza

       /  August 13, 2018

      • Blazer

         /  August 13, 2018

        thx Gezza…still can’t nail it.

        • Gezza

           /  August 13, 2018

          You can’t post from reddit for some reason. You need to save the image as a jpg and then upload to somewhere like imgflip.

  8. Griff.

     /  August 13, 2018

    Tesla is bringing Model 3 to Australia and New Zealand ahead of international launch

    As a Model 3 reservation holder, we are excited to invite you and one guest for an exclusive first look at Model 3 before we open to the public.

    During the event, you’ll have the opportunity to sit inside Model 3 and experience the expansive glass roof, premium interior and 15-inch touchscreen display. Tesla product specialists will be available to answer any questions you may have about the safety, range and performance of all Tesla vehicles.”

  9. chrism56

     /  August 13, 2018

    Michael Reddell looked at the plastic bag policy
    https://croakingcassandra.com/2018/08/13/plastic-bags/comment-page-1/#comment-26920
    Scathing would be the one word summary
    “Having now read the government’s consultative document on the planned ban on plastic shopping bag, I was pretty staggered by how bad it was. Since the document is actually released under the name of the Ministry for the Environment, has the New Zealand public service now sank to such a low level of “analysis” and evaluation? Or were they simply overruled by ministers with an agenda, and no analysis? Either way, there is little positive that can be said for it.”
    And that is some of the kinder words he had for it.

    • chrism56

       /  August 13, 2018

      And in answer to Robert, he will have to use his organic bag over 2000 times to use less energy than plastic bags according to the policy document Appendix Table 6 – virtue signaling while wasting more energy.

      • robertguyton

         /  August 13, 2018

        pffffffffft! You plant-destroyers will believe anything

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 13, 2018

      Re the MfE the answer to his first question is most certainly yes. Like DoC it seems to be staffed by the religious faithful and produces devotional tracts accordingly.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 13, 2018

      ” has the New Zealand public service now sank to such a low level”
      Respecting this guy for his mastery of grammar alone!

  10. Gezza

     /  August 13, 2018

    1ewes at 6 showed some cellcam video of Treaty Negotiations Minister Andrew Little having a loud and angry interchange at a hui up North to discuss the Treaty Settlement negotiations with some disgruntled Nga Puhi claimants unhappy about not feeling properly represented.

    He was being yelled at and yelling back. Yet, oddly enuf, at the end of the item one of those he’d been arguing with seemed to think it had been a worthwhile afternoon & appreciated the frankness & passion of his and others’ korero.

    I say good on ya Andy. You showed some spine & warrior spirit there and it was reciprocated in good measure – and it was appreciated.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 13, 2018

      That’s how ya do it!

      • Gezza

         /  August 13, 2018

        A few of them still walked out. But at least he’s going up into the lion’s den & not hiding away in Wellington. Still plenty of angry folk up there, but they’ll find a way through it. it’s too important not to.

        • robertguyton

           /  August 13, 2018

          He’s got…spine. That’s the key.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  August 13, 2018

          They hate each other until a pakeha shows up and then they hate him/her. Tragic.

          • Gezza

             /  August 13, 2018

            They don’t hate him. They’re angry with him and with the group he’s chosen to represent them. But they’re thrashing it out. I don’t give credit to Andy Little lightly, Al. You know that. As long as the korero is pono there’s probably no other way to do this.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 13, 2018

              They’ve been thrashing it out and in for years. What makes you think that will get anywhere this time?

            • Gezza

               /  August 13, 2018

              The settlement will proceed.