Open Forum – Wednesday

15 August 2018

Forum

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria.

Free speech is an important principle here but some people who might pose a risk to the site may be limited.

Next Post

109 Comments

  1. Despite being an indoor stadium Forsyth Barr Stadium placed 13th in trade magazine Pollstar’s list of the top-selling outdoor stadium/festival sites in the world with a total of 131,597 tickets sold in the first half of this year.

    It was one of only two New Zealand venues to make the list.

    Auckland’s Mt Smart Stadium was the other and placed eighth with 172,528 tickets sold.

    Both venues outsold some of the most famous stadiums in the world, including London’s Twickenham (which placed 40th) and Murrayfield in Edinburgh. (41st).

    The Dunedin stadium had a busy first half of the year which was dominated by three Ed Sheeran concerts.

    It also hosted Robbie Williams and Roger Waters.

    The second half of the year is also set to be a busy one, with Kendrick Lamar’s July gig set to be followed by Pink and Shania Twain.

    Being weatherproof helps enormously. I went to the Roger Waters concert, it was pretty good.

    • Griff.

       /  August 15, 2018

      What I take away from that Pete.
      We have few stadiums capable of holding events for the masses .
      That the Forsyth Barr Stadium scores so highly is a credit to its management and the city of Dunedin.
      The PTB are more inclined to squander money on exclusive venues like the Aotea Centre than cater for the dirty unwashed and their popular entertainment. .
      Unfortunately it is a given that any effort to rectify this will be a over built monstrosity at huge cost in an inappropriate place permanently sucking on ratepayers tit to maintain economic viability.

    • Blazer

       /  August 15, 2018

      heres me thinking it depended on the talent…appearing.

    • David

       /  August 15, 2018

      They have benefited from Christchurch being broken but good on them for brilliantly taking advantage of that and attracting some really good events. Bit of a controversial birth but what a great well run asset.
      Christchurch looks unlikely to have anything for at least a decade so enjoy.

  2. lurcher1948

     /  August 15, 2018

    Duncan Garner”You sound like a leader” to Judith”crusher”Collins who says she’s not Simon’s expenses leaker and as a aside,I have a bridge for sale in Auckland

    • Gezza

       /  August 15, 2018

      I might be interested. Where is it, have you got a pic, do you actually own it, and how much are you asking ? 😳

    • David

       /  August 15, 2018

      I guess that is the right wing march in Washington that 20 people turned up for.
      Antifa didnt disappoint with abusing cops, assaulting a tv crew, calling for Trump to be murdered and “no borders, no wall, no USA at all” chanting while hooded up.
      Crazy times

    • sorethumb

       /  August 15, 2018

      That cartoon implies Hillary won?

  3. PartisanZ

     /  August 15, 2018

    Mike Hosking opines about foreign buyers and the housing market … NZ Heraldo …

    “It is because this is what markets do, eventually reality and the market meet.”

    Yeah, yeah … That’s not the problem Mike. The problem is those lengthy periods of time when the market and reality are completely divorced from one another …

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12107170

    • David

       /  August 15, 2018

      They should have put a minimum purchase price of a million for foreigners if they had to put one in at all. Rich foreigners spend a lot of money in Queenstown as an example for their holiday pads and provide loads of jobs and local spending so seems ab it dumb to not have that money flowing in when they are hardly causing a housing shortage at their level.

      • Blazer

         /  August 15, 2018

        get lost…thanks to National an ex state house in Auckland costs over $1million.

        Why is everyone so concerned?
        Surely a mere 3% of transactions is of little ..consequence! 😉

        • David

           /  August 15, 2018

          Left wing council Blazer is your issue

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  August 15, 2018

          So a) Lefties don’t care if only 3% of buyers are affected, not having any concerns for individual human rights at all, and
          b) don’t realise that that 3% are actually the golden geese bringing investment and jobs into the country.

          In short, Lefties have no principles and no brains.

          • Blazer

             /  August 15, 2018

            have you ever had geese Al?
            They are always honking and make a hell….of a…mess.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 15, 2018

              No, but you will do as a substitute.

          • Blazer

             /  August 15, 2018

            what investments and jobs have the 3% of offshore buyers brought to NZ…lets see some substance…for a change.I call b/s.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 15, 2018

              Watch the NZ$, B. It calls out your b.s.

            • Blazer

               /  August 15, 2018

              NZ$ is affected by this exactly how?Stop bluffing.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 15, 2018

              Surely that is obvious even to you, B?

            • Blazer

               /  August 15, 2018

              no it is not…go…!

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 15, 2018

              Incoming investment raises the $ and outgoing lowers it. Supply and demand old chap.

            • Blazer

               /  August 15, 2018

              this was the Q…’what investments and jobs have the 3% of offshore buyers brought to NZ’

              fluctuations of the Kiwi are impacted by interest rates and international events.

              Another fail for you Al…quite the dunce.You are a few beakers short of a Science kit.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 15, 2018

              Supply and demand rules ok. Investment departs when your Govt screws up. Welcome to the real world, B.

            • Blazer

               /  August 15, 2018

              your trouble Al, is what you think you know,is what you don’t know….
              and what you do know…is not worth…knowing.

    • Gezza

       /  August 15, 2018

      If the Herald to you is the NZ Heraldo, PZ – is your local paper the Northern Avocado? o_O

      • Gezza

         /  August 15, 2018

        The problem is those lengthy periods of time when the market and reality are completely divorced from one another

        Yep.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  August 15, 2018

          That’s when politicians and bureaucrats are messing with them. Otherwise markets reflect supply/demand and future expectations.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  August 15, 2018

            The goose lays the golden eggs, she isn’t gold herseif. Hence the real saying about not killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

            People talk about not killing the golden goose….which is pointless.

    • sorethumb

       /  August 15, 2018

      Best solution.
      1. The state owns the land and people own the buildings
      2. Land tax.
      …..
      The market doesn’t work because the market works within the worlds ecosystem rather than the other way around. Therefore all the best locations become over subscribed.

  4. sorethumb

     /  August 15, 2018

    Grow a pair Jacinda

    So what were the contentious issues that the Canadians intended to raise, that were so “offensive” to a radical minority that they had to be closed down?

    Lauren Southern discussed one such issue in a TVNZ interview when she reminded us that in the clash of cultures, the utopian idea that cultures can peacefully co-exist, is simply not true. That’s why, she says, biculturalism can never work, because one culture will invariably fight to dominate the other, in order to gain an ever-greater share of power and resources.

    Lauren explained that anyone who tries to question biculturalism, will be called a racist in order to shut them down. But she urged New Zealanders not to back off, saying we should be asking, “Do we like what New Zealand culture has become?”, and – more importantly – “Do we want to go further down the track of biculturalism?”

    She’s right – these are very important questions. But what is also becoming increasingly clear, is that those driving the bicultural agenda are extremely well organised and will go to almost any lengths to prevent their ambitions from being exposed.

    That’s essentially one of the main reasons why the protesters at Auckland University’s Think Big Debate tried to stop equal rights advocate Don Brash from speaking; its why Jan Thomas banned him from the Massey University campus; and it’s also why the Canadians were silenced. Biculturalists do not want their agenda challenged at high profile events, in case the concerns take hold and spread. It really is as simple as that.

    Stephan Molyneux further argued that just as Western society accepts the separation of the State and the Church, so too they should accept the separation of the State and Culture.

    He’s right. Just as the separation of Church and State ensures that government officials cannot impose their religious beliefs onto others, so too the separation of the State and Culture would ensure that government officials – including teachers – could not impose their cultural beliefs onto society.

    In other words, the separation of State and Culture in New Zealand would prevent the government from forcing Maori culture onto us all – including schools. This is surely a concept worthy of serious consideration.

    Without a doubt, free speech is the cornerstone of democracy. Yet in this country, the right of individuals to freely participate in open debate and express their views frankly, without fear of recrimination, is increasingly under threat.

    So thank you to all those New Zealanders who understand the value of free speech – and are fearless in its defence.

    And shame on the loud-mouthed protesters who would rather bully others into silence than engage in reasoned debate. And shame on Auckland’s Mayor, Massey University’s Vice Chancellor, and the Prime Minister for failing to stand up for the right to free speech in New Zealand.

    https://www.nzcpr.com/grow-a-spine-or-resign/

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 15, 2018

      Fair enough … open debate …

      But you can see that the ‘Right Brigade’ viewpoint is based on certain assumptions [which I call transumptions or transferred assumptions] which are in no way provable ‘facts’ …

      For example: The transumption that society is engaged in a “clash of cultures” when it might just as equally be engaged in a relatively peaceful co-existence and intermingling of cultures … along with a righting of historical wrongs and former imbalance between cultures …?

      Again, “those driving the bicultural agenda are extremely well organised and will go to almost any lengths to prevent their ambitions from being exposed” is a massive transumption …

      Why bother asking “Do we want to go further down the track of biculturalism?” when the answer is evidently preordained? The Right Brigade are not engaged in “inquiry” at all.

      How they can expect to “express their views frankly, without fear of recrimination” is beyond me, when most of their views about Maori, biculturalism and multiculturalism ARE recrimination!

      And many of those views are expressed in the most despicable of ways too, like “Maori Genocide” and “Daughter Slaughter” … Hold your heads high and say that Doctor Brash and cronies …

      At least grow a brain Doc Newman … If you can’t grow a heart …

  5. PartisanZ

     /  August 15, 2018

    ‘Officials allow farm’s reserve land grab’ – Newsroom

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/08/14/190627/officials-allow-farms-reserve-land-grab?preview=1

    What isn’t up for sale to foreigners seems to be up for lease …

  6. Corky

     /  August 15, 2018

    Matthew having some fun with Rangi Kemara. Although I must say Hooten has a strange definition of free speech.

    Maybe Bridges needs to hire this chap to investigate his leak. My guess is either one of Bridges own with help from a third party in public services…or maybe Bridges himself if he has a devious side known only to a few?

  7. lurcher1948

     /  August 15, 2018

    What a nasty firm to work for but looking at the owners understandable, i hope they lose customers, and she takes them to the cleaners in the employment court, god i hate nasty employers like this,that’s why unions exist for
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/106213327/woman-fired-after-speaking-out-about-rough-sleeper-assault-at-work

  8. Corky

     /  August 15, 2018

    Understanding the 4th dimension with Corky.

    Why is this important? Because you do all your thinking in 4th dimensional reality then mechanically download your thoughts into three dimensional existence.

    But most importantly….if there is life after death, you will exist in the fourth dimension as a unit of consciousness. That will be a shock, not just for atheists, but also for people who can’t find their promised virgins.

    Damn, reality sucks. But which reality?

    • Blazer

       /  August 15, 2018

      when are you bringing out a cook book Corky?

      I enjoy the Big Bang theory but calculus,quantum physics and the like,make my brain..hurt.

      • Corky

         /  August 15, 2018

        Sorry, Blazer, I can’t cook…I just like eating…preferably organic,GM and Roundup free.

        • Blazer

           /  August 15, 2018

          if you only knew what was in a …raspberry..bun!

        • Gezza

           /  August 15, 2018

          But most importantly….if there is life after death, you will exist in the fourth dimension as a unit of consciousness. That will be a shock, not just for atheists, but also for people who can’t find their promsed virgins.

          I’m an agnostic. I’m only an atheist in respect of the Abrahamic & most other organised & ancient or human-form gods religions. I think it highly unlikely our conscious personalities survive death. I don’t think there’s any credible evidence that it does. But I don’t completely rule it out.

          Dunno about those expecting to see virgins, but if we do die & pop out the ‘other side’ still consciously intact, I reckon atheists like everybody will just likely be pleasantly surprised.

          Of course if that does occur, we have no clue what would happen after that event. Would Adolf Hitler, Stalin & Pol Pot be there? Will they possibly have been reincarnated to learn a lesson from a life where they were now victims of someone like them – ?

          In the past or the future? Would time even be relevant there?

          What form & purpose would this after or beyond life take? Would we then maybe just be part of some universal consciousness pool? Would it be an evolutionary process of some type? What would we be evolving towards or into?

          Or death could just be THE END, and the near death experience disembodiments & glmpses of the afterlife some people have reported could just be a brain function, a type of unconscious super-aware hallucination.

          There are alll kinds of possibilities. Religions play with them.

          Meantime, I reckon the best thing is to live this life to the full, doing as much of what makes you happy, & as little hurt or harm to others, as you can.

    • Blazer

       /  August 15, 2018

      can you unpick this for me..Corky…

      ‘I did challenge you. It was on the point of the way you didn’t realise that the hubbert curves and Gaussians were fundamentally different things. And that resource extraction should be thought of as a convex function with fixed integral value. Not as you put it, (abv) ‘changing the Gaussian function.’
      See. Some basic training in economics/econometrics would have avoided this faux-pa. You can’t possibly expect to convince people who are familiar with concepts if you cannot explain your position in a logical manner.

      I have no fear. If you can convince me with something reputable, I’ll change my opinion.
      A PhD tends to make you a stickler for that sort of thing, unfortunately.

      • Corky

         /  August 15, 2018

        Crikey..I wouldn’t have a clue what you are on about. Sorry, I can’t uptick that.

      • High Flying Duck

         /  August 15, 2018

        Is that something about the u-bend and the filter on the dishwasher?
        If so you need to be sure the angle of the hubbert curve is sufficient to avoid blowback while reducing the chance of blockage given average 3 ply consumption and standard stool size per use to 3 standard deviations.
        Gaussians should be rinsed every 5th wash to ensure hygienic cleaning of your dishes.

        • Corky

           /  August 15, 2018

          Damn fine summation, High Flyer. The trouble with educated knobs like Blazer, is when they encounter someone with a higher education. Then their comments can be challenged and critiqued. You obviously found Blazer had fail to mention the u-bend
          and filter. That leads me to conclude he never attended university…but maybe spent time in a good Polytech…maybe Massey.

    • “Damn, reality sucks. But which reality?”

      If there is a ‘religious connection’ to this fourth dimension, the reality that your consciousness has created here will be imperfect, and will therefore, by definition, suck. Particularly if within it are dreams of multitudinous virgins awaiting your return from the projection to what may be an even more mundane existence than the one you have projected. I think Elon Musk has something to say about this.

      • Corky

         /  August 15, 2018

        ”If there is a ‘religious connection’ to this fourth dimension.”

        Maybe from our 3D existence and projections we could impute some religious connection to the 4th dimension. However, in the 4th dimension it will ultimately account for nothing. Consciousness and space would be the currency of existence.

        ”The reality that your consciousness has created here will be imperfect, and will therefore, by definition, suck. Particularly if within it are dreams of multitudinous virgins awaiting your return from the projection to what may be an even more mundane existence than the one you have projected.

        The Egyptian Book Of The Dead and Tibetan Buddhism have rites that guide a recently departed soul as they get tangled in their projections created before and after their deaths.
        This entanglement may last for centuries. However, as time doesn’t exist in the 4th dimension, it’s of no concern.

        So going by that, unless you understand the 4th dimension like Yogis, saints, occultists and wise people, an agnostic approach to life and death would be the best course of action for most people. That way strong projections like God, or skeptical non-belief, don’t weigh a person down.

        Having an intellectual understanding of the 4th dimension as in the above clip expands you consciousness, but is of little practical use in the 4th dimension except as an anchor

  9. Zedd

     /  August 15, 2018

    the bus driver said to me yesterday.. ‘thats the earliest Ive seen the blossoms out on those trees/bushes’.. I hear MrT has just pushed for more oil/gas production

    no evidence of c-c ? :/

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 15, 2018

      That’s a bugger, Z. South Dunedin might be heading for a habitable climate.

      • Zedd

         /  August 15, 2018

        the bus was in North Dn AW

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 15, 2018

          It’s been out here for a while, and the magnolias are magnificent.

          • Gezza

             /  August 15, 2018

            Spring growth is starting on the stream banks down here too. Last year our sunny warm Spring days started in August & extended into our best sunny Summer for years. Cold Southerly blustering today though. Occasional light showers. Got the heater on low.

  10. lurcher1948

     /  August 15, 2018

    Not very nice supporting employers, i hope she takes them to the cleaners and gets BIG compensation,Work should be safe and be with support which was short here
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/106213327/woman-fired-after-speaking-out-about-rough-sleeper-assault-at-work

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 15, 2018

      If all is as reported I agree, Lurch. Seems disgraceful.

    • High Flying Duck

       /  August 15, 2018

      Yep – they are now being bitten by the Streisand effect. They will regret their actions, if they don’t already. I’m sure someone will offer the poor lady a job. Maybe WWF.

    • Gezza

       /  August 15, 2018

      Something odd about this one. Seems a massive overreaction by the employers. Like maybe they were looking for an excuse to fire her & bring in someone younger and cheaper or something. I hope she takes them to the cleaners too.

    • sorethumb

       /  August 15, 2018

      Japanese /Chinese owners.

  11. Blazer

     /  August 15, 2018

    before…and after…

  12. lurcher1948

     /  August 15, 2018

    Late stage dementia appearing ,tRump,chief groper and insulter of females,with supporters here
    Donald J. Trump PRESIDENT what ever that means
    ‏Verified account

    @realDonaldTrump
    11h11 hours ago
    More
    When you give a crazed, crying lowlife a break, and give her a job at the White House, I guess it just didn’t work out. Good work by General Kelly for quickly firing that dog!
    Black dog say it tRump,you know you want to

  13. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 15, 2018

    The brain-dead futility of the Left’s crackdown on “low skilled” immigration is now being felt in critical shortages of truckies, construction and agriculture workers.

    When the clueless try to control markets … come in Blazer.

    • Griff.

       /  August 15, 2018

      There is no shortage of workers Alan.
      There is a refusal to pay market rates that has continued because of many low skilled workers getting here though the backdoor immigration scams.
      If you advertised a truck driving job with rates similar to AU anywhere in the country you would have plenty of good applicants tomorrow.
      When you want to pay a few cents over the minimum wage no one is interested .

      • High Flying Duck

         /  August 15, 2018

        Job Title Salary / Wage $ Location
        HR Truck Driver $20 – $30 per hour Sydney, New South Wales
        MR Truck Driver / Warehouse Role $45,000 – $50,000 New South Wales
        HR Truck Driver $25 per hour Adelaide, South Australia
        Crane Truck & Quad Dog Driver $72,000 Brisbane, Queensland

        Vs NZ:

        Heavy truck drivers usually earn
        $16-$30 per hour
        Source: Road Transport Forum NZ, 2018.

        Average salary $21.73 per hour

        Range: $20 – $35 per hour

        Maybe a little lower, but not markedly so.

        • Blazer

           /  August 15, 2018

          nice try at plausible deniability…you conveniently forgot to assess the exchange rate.
          A factory worker in Sydney can easily command $AU30 an hr.

        • Griff.

           /  August 15, 2018

          Average salary NZ $21.73 per hour
          Average salary AU $28.32 per hour
          https://au.indeed.com/salaries/Truck-Driver-Salaries

          In AU you get overtime for more than 40 hours.
          Here its flat rate .

          30% more is not what I would consider close.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 15, 2018

            Aus GDP per capita is nearly 50% higher so on that basis they are doing ok relatively.

            • Blazer

               /  August 15, 2018

              stop making shit up Al…

              1 Luxembourg 120,061 10.24 – 144,088 1 3.54 72.46 72 Europe
              2 Switzerland 86,835 7.40 33225 102,508 3 1.07 741.7 20 Europe
              3 Iceland 84,675 7.22 2160 98,256 5 3.64 29.11 103 Europe
              4 Macao SAR 83,844 7.15 832 113,309 2 9.26 53.75 83 Asia
              5 Norway 82,711 7.05 1133 91,966 6 1.81 443.3 28 Europe
              6 Ireland 80,641 6.88 2070 100,682 4 7.81 385.1 32 Europe
              7 Qatar 66,202 5.65 14439 80,562 7 2.14 183.8 55 Asia
              8 Denmark 63,830 5.44 2372 77,408 8 2.11 369.8 35 Europe
              9 United States 62,152 5.30 1678 71,805 11 2.27 20,413 1 North America
              10 Singapore 61,767 5.27 385 74,105 9 3.62 349.7 38 Asia
              11 Australia 59,655 5.09 2111 72,091 10 2.27 1,500 14 Oceania
              12 Sweden 58,345 4.98 1310 68,889 12 2.40 600.8 24 Europe
              13 Netherlands 55,185 4.71 3160 67,206 13 3.11 945.3 17 Europe
              14 Austria 53,764 4.58 1421 64,918 14 2.90 477.7 27 Europe
              15 Finland 52,422 4.47 1342 63,564 16 2.99 289.6 42 Europe
              16 San Marino 52,033 4.44 389 57,499 20 1.50 1.809 171 Europe
              17 Germany 50,842 4.34 1192 63,728 15 2.51 4,212 4 Europe
              18 Belgium 49,272 4.20 1570 58,564 19 1.71 562.2 25 Europe
              19 Hong Kong SAR 48,829 4.16 443 63,388 17 3.82 364.8 37 Asia
              20 Canada 48,466 4.13 363 62,610 18 3.00 1,799 10 North America
              21 France 44,934 3.83 3532 53,839 22 1.85 2,925 6 Europe
              22 New Zealand 44,639 3.81 295 55,840 21 3.04 220.9 53 Oceania

              $44,639-$59,655

            • Griff.

               /  August 15, 2018

              Yess Alan
              National spent 9 years diluting our indervidual share of GDP by bringing in low wage workers from offshore as students who really come for the back door entry into a first world country not eduction. This scam resulted in overloading our infrastructure and pushing house prices to unfordable highs.
              Made the books look good and the bosses happy fuck the average NZer.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 15, 2018

              Ppp scale was approx $48k/$34k. As I said nearly 50% higher and certainly as much as the difference in truckie wages.

          • High Flying Duck

             /  August 15, 2018

            Found an updated salary report for this year: The average rate for a Truck Driver Heavy in Auckland is NZ$24.27 per hour.

            • Griff.

               /  August 15, 2018

              Your point being?
              The Au rate is average for all truck drivers not just heavy and not the most expensive labour market in the country.

    • Blazer

       /  August 15, 2018

      they need to try paying more Al…thats the key….we do have far too many scientists ..however.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 15, 2018

        Not going to happen, B. Your Govt is doing everything to make the country poorer and every time the NZ$ falls it takes another bite out of NZ wages.

        • robertguyton

           /  August 15, 2018

          “Your Govt”?
          Your own Govt is different from ours, Alan?

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 15, 2018

            Sure would be, Robert. Yours will be spending the rest of its term hacking up an ever smaller national cake. Enjoy.

    • sorethumb

       /  August 15, 2018

      Elephant in the room Our story of bus drivers reveals the existence of the proverbial elephant in the room. It shows that the living standards of the huge majority of people in rich countries critically depend on the existence of the most draconian control over their labour markets – immigration control. Despite this, immigration control is invisible to many and deliberately ignored by others, when they talk about the virtues of the free market. I have already argued (see Thing 1) that there really is no such thing as a free market, but the example of immigration control reveals the sheer extent of market regulation that we have in supposedly free-market economies but fail to see. While they complain about minimum wage legislation, regulations on working hours, and various ‘artificial’ entry barriers into the labour market imposed by trade unions, few economists even mention immigration control as one of those nasty regulations hampering the workings of the free labour market. Hardly any of them advocates the abolition of immigration control. But, if they are to be consistent, they should also advocate free immigration. The fact that few of them do once again proves my point in Thing 1 that the boundary of the market is politically determined and that free-market economists are as ‘political’ as those who want to regulate markets. Of course, in criticizing the inconsistency of free-market economists about immigration control, I am not arguing that immigration control should be abolished – I don’t need to do that because (as you may have noticed by now) I am not a free-market economist. Countries have the right to decide how many immigrants they accept and in which parts of the labour market. All societies have limited capabilities to absorb immigrants, who often have very different cultural backgrounds, and it would be wrong to demand that a country goes over that limit. Too rapid an inflow of immigrants will not only lead to a sudden increase in competition for jobs but also stretch the physical and social infrastructures, such as housing and healthcare, and create tensions with the resident population. As important, if not as easily quantifiable, is the issue of national identity. It is a myth – a necessary myth, but a myth nonetheless – that nations have immutable national identities that cannot be, and should not be, changed. However, if there are too many immigrants coming in at the same time, the receiving society will have problems creating a new national identity, without which it may find it difficult to maintain social cohesion. This means that the speed and the scale of immigration need to be controlled.
      https://marcell.memoryoftheworld.org/Ha-Joon%20Chang/23%20Things%20They%20Don't%20Tell%20You%20About%20Capitalism%20(1550)/23%20Things%20They%20Don't%20Tell%20You%20About%20Capita%20-%20Ha-Joon%20Chang.pdf

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 15, 2018

        I look at it this way sorethumb: We, collectively, wanted the $2Shop and all those cheap goods … and they came at a price … the $2Shop owners & their families … and outsourcing the manufacturing of all those cheap goods to sweatshop economies …

        A successful $2Shop economy must have low ‘service staff’ wages … or the price of all those cheap goods goes up …

      • Gezza

         /  August 15, 2018

        TLDR. Paragraphing might help.

  14. Griff.

     /  August 15, 2018

    I am having a small incident here.
    It involves a couple of trucks, one nutter, an attack with a pick handle and a resulting scrape.
    Two 50 year old guys rolling around trying to kill each other .
    I won that act.
    The police have been contacted but fuck me what a run around.
    No office wants to take responsibility.
    I reported an assault though the crime line.
    111 has been good they just rang be back to confime I am ok .
    The three cops I have spoken too at the two local branches just try to pass it on somewhere else.
    My guess is understaffed and over worked .

  15. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 15, 2018

    A potential consequence of immigration from inferior cultures – “honor” killings:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12107203

  16. Zedd

     /  August 15, 2018

    amy adams, judith, paula, louise, n willis: I want more, I expect more, Im coming for MORE & everyone needs to look out or get out of the way..

  17. sorethumb

     /  August 15, 2018

    Nazi Lady has career change

    • Corky

       /  August 15, 2018

      Wise women. There’s only so much mileage in being a shit stirrer, even if you are right.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 15, 2018

        White women. There’s only so much mileage in being ‘Right’, even if you’re a shit …

        • Corky

           /  August 15, 2018

          Your opinion will be surplus to requirements after the next election, Parti. Until then I will suck it up.

          • PartisanZ

             /  August 15, 2018

            Not going to engage in “open debate” Corky … exercise your right of Free Speech … other than to forecast the demise of my opinion …?

            My opinion will, I assure you, be as relevant as ever no matter who wins the next election in our “managed democracy” …

            My opinion is, for instance, that ‘managed democracy’ needs a good deal of reforming … regardless of who is managing it … (which corporate-political elites) … to prevent them from doing so …

    • Gezza

       /  August 15, 2018

      Intriguing. Will be interested to see how she tackles her promise of more balanced & nuanced documentary movies in her future new career.

  18. Zedd

     /  August 15, 2018

    listening to Q-time.. I think Natl are running out of ideas:

    1) do youz stand by your comments/actions ?

    2) why havent you fixed up the last 9 years of neglect ??

    3) do you agree that Nats rich cronies are not happy with your budget/ Govt. ???

    thats about it !

    • Gezza

       /  August 15, 2018

      1) do youz stand by your comments/actions ?

      The purpose of this type of question – especially to PMs, but also to any Minister – is that if the answer is: “Yes, in the context in which they were made or done” – which is the standard type of reply – the Minister can now be asked quite a broad range of questions not specific to one particular issue that they may not have been prepared for by their political or departmental advisers.

      The current government used this technique in Opposition too.

      2) why havent you fixed up the last 9 years of neglect ??

      This is actually the now standard reply from the PM & government Ministers to a whole heap of questions every day: “We are having to fix up 9 loooong years of neglect by the Opposition when they were in Government”.

      So are:

      “This problem was created by the National government & you did nothing to fix it. Why are you now criticising us for fixing it?”

      “The previous government said they would fix it – but they never actually allocated any money to do so”

      3) do you agree that Nats rich cronies are not happy with your budget/ Govt. ???

      Well, that’s not exactly how the Nats put it – they talk about “business” and “business confidence” and “small businesses”. Generally the PM, Deputy PM & the Finance Minister, & His Pompousness Hon Shane Geoffery Jones just bat these ones away with counter-statements from one or more other recent business or economist sources saying that the stats show the economy under Labour govts grows even when business confidence is always reported to be low, & that jobs are still being created, more people getting jobs, & everything is actually hunky dorey & trucking along nicely.

      The funniest problem the Nats have had is having to invent reasons for criticising the Labour coalition for implementing what were sometimes really National’s policies – & neither side wants to admit that.

      • Gezza

         /  August 15, 2018

        And of course, the government certainly has to thank John Key, whenever they are questioned on why they have ignored Treasury advice, for telling everyone in New Zealand that Treasury often gets things wrong & their economic forecasts are never right.

  19. lurcher1948

     /  August 15, 2018

    So Simon Bridges whining costs,HOW MUCH DOES A QC COST,heaps and who pays for it, the stupid rightwing national party and the workers of New Zealand the hardworking left

  20. lurcher1948

     /  August 15, 2018

    The Haumaha, witch hunt run by the right for scalps,i stole this from a nearby, Alright National party attack blog called Kiwiblog which is full of conspiracy stories run by a paid national party member called David Farrar its a good read
    It sounds like either a witch hunt, Maori bashing or there are there forces inside the Police Force who are manipulating this, just as they did when it was rumoured that Rickard would be the next Commisioner. Didn’t it strike anyone as odd that Louise Nicholas didn’t to reopen historical rape allegations herself (which are alleged to have happened 20 yrs or so earlier) which were not prosecuted because there was no corroborating evidence. Apparently The Dominion had a ‘tip off’and their man arrived at Nicolas’ door to question her on the historical allegations. What followed was 3 years of attacks and trial by media.. Someone else came out of the woodwork and in the climate of the Nicolas media circus Shipton and Shollum a were charged and convicted of a rape which i don’t believe would have happened without the 3 yrs of police bashing that had occurred in the media. Rickard wasn’t involved. They were found not guilty of Nicolas rape. She emerged as a ‘ ‘survivor’ and celebrity even though no one has ever been convicted of her numerous( I think 7 rape claims including one she later said she made up) and Rickards career was over. Sadly the only cop who was never charged with any sexual impropriety ,was jailed in the wake of mob feminist fury that Rickard and co had been found not guiltly!. I still believer that there are those in the police who acted maliciously and are still beavering away to get rid of Haumaha. I smell a bloody big rat!

    • Gezza

       /  August 15, 2018

      Whatever the background is, one thing that is abundantly clear, from every time I see Stuart Nash, the police Minister, on tv, is that with what has come out sbout him he is now NOT happy with Haumaha’s appointment & doesn’t like the man.

      This will make any working relationship between them very difficult when Haumaha is confirmed in his job.

      That, & Haumaha’s strong connections to NZF & presumably NZF Ministers, meaning there will be tension between the two parties, make this situation far too good not to be mercilessly exploited at every opportunity – & if the same situation arose for a senior appointee with strong ties to one of their coalition parties when National was in government, the Opposition under Little & his predecessors would have gone after them & him too – but probably not as effectively or in as well-coordinated a manner as the Nats.

      • Gezza

         /  August 15, 2018

        The other thing that will be making this delicious for the Nats is that the Givernment even announcing an enquiry into the appointment is almost certainly offensive to Maori who will no doubt see Pakeha racism present in all this.

    • Corky

       /  August 15, 2018

      Talking about Tories, Lurchy, did you see Wallace the Tory on the news? He’s alleged to have defrauded the Waitangi Committee of $ 1.2 million. He lived well, like all Tories should. His problem was he didn’t learn the Rightie way of looking after the books.

      I’m sure Ngapuhi bros will have a warm welcome for Wallace when he’s sentenced. That boy needs to harden up so he can take his lumps.