Free speech battle brews between feminist and trans-activist groups

From Gezza:

A company has pulled posters commemorating women’s suffrage after pressure from LBTGI youth groups who say the feminist blogger behind the poster campaign holds transgender exclusionary beliefs.

Phantom Billsticker’s managing director Jamey Holloway says the company previously hung posters for Wellington writer and activist Renee Gerlich as part of women’s suffrage projects. This year marks 125 years since women gained the right to vote in New Zealand.  At issue this year were complaints triggered by the tagline “suffragists worked for the female sex – stop rewriting history” that appeared on Gerlich’s posters – a statement some see as denying transgender women’s right to identify as women.


One of Wellington activist Renee Gerlich’s posters commemorating women’s suffrage. The tagline has been criticised by some as promoting the rejection transgender women’s right to identify as women.

Tabby Besley, national co-ordinator for InsideOUT – a group that advocates for young people of minority genders and sexualities – says the tagline displayed a subtle transphobia.

Phantom asked InsideOUT for advice after receiving complaints about Gerlich’s posters. Her understanding was the posters were harmful to trans and gender diverse people. “It’s a platform for what we see as hate speech … her blog is full of incredibly harmful words,” Besley says.

WRITING BY RENEE: https://reneejg.net/
Trigger warning: feminism, women’s rights

Holloway says many posters had been ripped down around Wellington and a “large number of people” had asked the company not to poster Gerlich’s campaign – but there were also calls in support of Gerlich.  Holloway says while it was not his job to “police a fight between marginalised groups” quashing anyone’s right to free speech was something the company was loathe to do.

“It’s an easy decision with clear hate speech or denigration, this is a lot more difficult – and I don’t necessarily think I’m best placed to make the call, but someone has to,” Holloway says. Gerlich had said she would take the matter up with the Human Rights Commission – a move the company welcomes.

The core issue was not the posters themselves, but Gerlich’s blog, Holloway says. In it Gerlich criticises a lack of voices in media from gender critical feminists on gender identity, while saying the promotion of gender self-identification was constant.

Questioning trans-activism often resulted in a backlash especially the use of the label TERF – trans-exclusionary radical feminist. “This slur is today’s ‘witch’ and is often accompanied by other insults as well as threats of violence, ostracism and loss of livelihood,” Gerlich said.

More ….
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106356864/free-speech-battle-brews-between-feminist-and-transactivist-groups
… … … …

For heaven’s sake. The RadFems & The Intersexers collide. I guess Jordan Peterson would have some predictable views on all of this.

Now the latest Gender Fluid fad is starting to run smack bang into the Pro-Fem/Anti-Men fad AND Transgender Rights AND the Free Speech thing!

Gawd luv a duck ! Stop the world. I want to get off.

⚔ Sir Gerald 🛡

40 Comments

  1. Pickled Possum

     /  August 19, 2018

    “Gerlich criticises a lack of voices in media from gender critical feminists on gender identity while saying the promotion of gender self-identification was constant”

    Have to agree with that piece of information.

    • Gezza

       /  August 19, 2018

      I’ve given you an uptick to be on the safe side, sis – but fankly I’m still trying to nut out exactly what she means there. o_O

      Sir Gerald 💂🏻 is just as confused & wonders if she’s a Californian? 😕

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 19, 2018

        It’s a language we don’t understand Gezza …

        Contemporary Female.

  2. Missy

     /  August 19, 2018

    This is a big issue in the UK at the moment as well, especially as there are proposals to bring in laws where someone can self-identify as a woman (already allowed in the UK Labour Party – something which led to 300+ women resigning and writing an open letter to Jeremy Corbyn).

    My views are no doubt going to be seen as transphobic by some on here, (I can guess who and to be honest I don’t care, you are men and have no understanding of what it is to be a woman), but here they are anyway.

    I don’t agree with self-identification at all, and I find (in the UK anyway) many in the Trans Lobby group very much in favour of self-identification and push for it as part of trans rights. This, in my opinion, undermines women’s rights as it allows any man (regardless of how he lives or dresses) to say he identifies as a woman – even if it is only for one day – and be allowed to use women’s facilities, and this puts women at risk. There was a case of a male sexual predator who said that he now identifies as a woman and fought to get transferred to a women’s prison, after a short time he was charged with sexual assault on a number of female inmates. This highlights the problem I have with self-identification with no medical or psychological reports to back the person up, it becomes too easy for predatory men to access women’s only spaces to commit these types of offences.

    However, in saying that, I have no problem with genuine cases of transgender people, anyone who is transitioning should be able to use the facilities of the gender they are transitioning to, but there has to be a high bar to pass. An example is a transgender person I work with who is in the middle of transitioning from male to female, she is going through the hormone treatment, will have the operation, and is living life as a woman. I have no problem with her – and those like her – she is genuinely a person who was born the wrong gender.

    There has to be a way to be able to balance transgender rights with women’s rights, however, so far it hasn’t been found. At the moment many transgender activists are going to the extreme and demanding equal rights based on what someone says, many don’t believe there needs to be any medical – or psychological – certification, but as they do this it undermines women’s rights, and many women feel that yet again men are dictating to them and invading their spaces they fought hard for.

    Transgender and women’s rights shouldn’t be mutually exclusive, but the modern trans lobby groups are sadly making it that way, and for many women it is becoming a case of being third class citizens behind men and transgenders.

    I would like to see strict rules and processes in place before a transgender person can use facilities of the gender opposite to what they are biologically (despite what they feel). I for one would be extremely uncomfortable using a changing room with someone who is anatomically a man, regardless of what they identify as.

  3. Corky

     /  August 19, 2018

    It’s so delicious when political correctness meets political correctness.

    Tabby Besley. InsideOUT .TERF – trans-exclusionary radical feminist.Minority genders and sexualities .

    I suppose for these folk these are important issues to fight over. From my perspective I keep
    thinking of how lucky these people are they aren’t caught up in the Syrian civil war. That would really be something to fight over…and write about.

  4. artcroft

     /  August 19, 2018

    Ha! A student survey recently sent out at a local primary school asked eight years olds to tick either Male; Female; Other. Cue much consternation.

    • Corky

       /  August 19, 2018

      Arty, times are changing. Nowdays, having a ”bent barrel” is acceptable.

  5. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 19, 2018

    Oh dear. I look forward to the PM setting up a working group on this policy area.

    • Blazer

       /  August 19, 2018

      working groups ensure voices and opinions get heard and tested.Always a good thing.
      Tesla…
      ‘The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane. Nikola Tesla

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 19, 2018

        The Tesla quote could well apply to one or two of your mates here, B.

  6. chrism56

     /  August 19, 2018

    In Britain, people like Germaine Greer and Julie Birchill has been pilloried because the have differentiated between “real” women and trans women,.
    The revolution is devouring its own.

    • chrism56

       /  August 19, 2018

      I spelt Julie Burchill’s surname wrong, but this was the column that set all the hatred against her off:
      https://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/02/dont-you-dare-tell-me-to-check-my-privilege/
      and here is Germaine not pulling punches that was the basis of most of her attacks:
      https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-34625512/germaine-greer-transgender-women-are-not-women
      As could be expected, the attacks and deplatforming has caused Germaine to come out fighting and be more vocal than ever.
      Is it sexist to call it a cat fight?

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 19, 2018

        God, that Burchill column was funny! Made my morning. Thanks for posting it.

    • Pink David

       /  August 19, 2018

      “The revolution is devouring its own.”

      Indeed. It’s only a matter of time before the trans destroy women’s sport.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 19, 2018

        Germaine Greer said that rape is just bad sex.

        I take it that she has never been gang-raped as a friend was at the age of 14.

        • chrism56

           /  August 19, 2018

          I think if you go back and look at the actual words (not what the commentators reported them as) and the context they were said in, you will find it was va lot different and the qualifications are important.
          https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/germaine-greer-rape-punishment-hay-festival-crime-a8376876.html
          Think of the MeToo assassination of Aziz Ansari

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  August 19, 2018

            Even so….

            • chrism56

               /  August 19, 2018

              Do I take that as a backdown?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 19, 2018

              No.

            • chrism56

               /  August 19, 2018

              So we have established that she didn’t say what you said she said, and you piled it on about the misrepresentation, and you don’t think you need to change your written comments.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 19, 2018

              We have establised no such thing. She did say it and said that most rape is lazy, insensitive sex like a husband rolling onto an exhausted wife.

              Nor did I ‘pile it on’. One of my comments was two words, another was one, the longest was a short sentence about gang rape.

              Don’t be a troll. We don’t need any more trolls here.

              Most people would not regard the husband rolling onto his wife (who could roll away) as rape or think that most rape is like that. That trivialises it.

              Decreasing the sentences, as she suggests, is hardly a solution.

          • chrism56

             /  August 19, 2018

            Kitty you are piling it on. You left out a lot of the original qualifiers and nuances in your simplification.
            A simple example is from the original article ” She went on to suggest that the penalty for rape be lowered along with the burden of proof for securing a conviction. “Why not believe the woman and lower the penalty?” she said.”
            Which you turned into “Decreasing the sentences, as she suggests, is hardly a solution.”
            And organisations like Rape Crisis reckon only 9% of rapes get reported, http://rpe.co.nz/information/statistics/ with it implied that most are marital rape, the situation that Germaine was apparently referring to.
            If you want to get upset about people contesting your statements, it is an issue for you to sort out.

  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 19, 2018

    At the other end of the spectrum we have this chamber of horrors:
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/106172556/tongan-white-sheet-ceremony-full-of-contradictions

    The Human Rights Commission declines to comment.

    • Gezza

       /  August 19, 2018

      As you only posted a link, you’ve pretty much declined to comment yourself, Sir Alan? 💂🏻
      Sir Gerald

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 19, 2018

        Chamber of horrors is not a comment? I think it is a disgusting practice that should be condemned.

        • Gezza

           /  August 19, 2018

          Should I have a read?
          I’ll have a read. 😐

        • Gezza

           /  August 19, 2018

          “Chamber of Horrors” is at your now customary ludicrously hyperbolic end of the scale. Nevertheless, as you say, one might expect the HRC to express a view that the practice is immoral, outdated, ignores that there are many reasons why a bride’s hymen might not be intact, including the use of tampons, & probably causes considerable needless psychological distress & unjustifiable shame to many victims. Feminists & RadFems one hopes are strident & vocal in their opposition to the practice which is not part of our current culture.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 19, 2018

            Chamber = bedroom, horrors = emotional and physical revulsion. I think it appropriate.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 19, 2018

              Gloriavale makes the happy couple go off and do it during the wedding celebrations.

  8. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 19, 2018

    And here is a woman telling men what they need so she can get what she wants:
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/106386280/last-year-only-324-men-took-parental-leave-and-its-an-issue

  9. David

     /  August 19, 2018

    The UK has gone full on crazy with the trans thing and it will backfire spectacularly, May thinks it makes the conservatives look progressive the stupid woman.
    The numbers identifying as trans has exploded which is really odd and the huge increase has come almost solely from girls wanting to be boys which is odder. Dr Deborah Soh has some interesting insights, not popular ones with the trans rights people, like 70% of girls are on the autism spectrum and she thinks perhaps some girls at an awkward stage of life perhaps socially awkward announce a change and all of a sudden they are supported and popular and the centre of attention, rapid onset transgenderism.
    She did an interesting podcast with Dave Rubin, she is widely published in her native Canada and has a PHD in sexual neuroscience.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 19, 2018

      the huge increase has come almost solely from girls wanting to be boys which is odder
      Maybe not. Eating disorders also disproportionately afflict young women. I suspect a causal connection.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 19, 2018

        Not so much eating disorders perhaps as the hormones, antibiotics and addiction agents which ‘free markets’ demand be added to the food-like substances they eat …

    • Gezza

       /  August 19, 2018

      At the Green Party conference on Sunday, Shaw said it was “very on-brand” for Genter to cycle to hospital for the birth. “We’re just delighted that a second ministerial baby is on the way, very proud to be part of a party that supports that, and very proud to live in a country where two members of the country’s executive are able to have children as part of their job,” he said.

      Bloody hell ! Don’t tell me this is how JAG intends to get 50% women (not transgenders, note) into Public Service Chief Exec roles by the end of next year ? 😮

      Making “Give birth within 18 months of appointment” a job requirement ? 😐

      Where will it end ? o_O

      • unitedtribes2

         /  August 19, 2018

        Hope she didn’t leave it too late. Would be a tad uncomfortable having to have it on the back carrier

  1. Free speech battle brews between feminist and trans-activist groups — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition