Open Forum – Tuesday

21 August 2018

Forum

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria.

Free speech is an important principle here but some people who might pose a risk to the site may be limited.

Next Post

28 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  August 21, 2018

    Language can mean way more than communication. What if the language you spoke caused you to perceive time differently? Crikey !!

    Excerpts:

    ”Some recent research papers published in economics journals – notably a 2013 paper by Keith Chen of Yale and a 2018 paper by three Australian economists – have proposed that languages that grammatically distinguish future from present cause their speakers to plan less, save less, even care less for the environment.”

    ”Bejamin Lee Whorf was an inspector for a fire insurance company, and he saw that language could cause safety problems. People were careless around empty gasoline drums because they were “empty” – except that, in fact, they were filled with gasoline vapour, which can explode. This spurred him to study and write about language.

    Whorf spent time with the Hopi people of northeastern Arizona. He observed that they had no grammatical distinctions for future and past and no way to count periods of time. He looked at their cultural practices and concluded that the Hopi see time quite differently from us, and that concepts that seem obvious to us – such as “tomorrow is another day” – had no meaning for them.”

    The Hopi measured time in epochs or cycles.

    In metaphysics this is called ” Akashic ” time ( 4th dimensional anchoring) The nearest we have to this concept is called ”living in the present moment.” According to this doctrine continually projecting our consciousness between the past and future( we all do this too often) causes psychological problems and creates a mental sleep people are unaware of.

    I think blogs lend credence to this concept 😄

    http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20180806-can-language-slow-down-time

    • Gezza

       /  August 21, 2018

      Are any of the astronauts who walked on the moon Hopis, do you know?

    • phantom snowflake

       /  August 21, 2018

      Any culture which lives close to nature will automatically experience time more as “simultaneous time” rather than the Western construct of “linear time”. This is certainly true of traditional Maori. One example being that ancestors, even those who passed in ancient times, were experienced as being close at hand. I think this difference in perception of time partly explains why injury, hurt, mamae from the past (e.g. loss of land, language and sovereignty, systematic rape by early settlers and missionaries) are experienced as immediate and present. Of course I am aware that to many, this would be a nonsense.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 21, 2018

        Or they don’t have the sense, empathy, imagination and/or will to acknowledge let alone attempt to comprehend it?

        It might have policy implications …

      • Griff.

         /  August 21, 2018

        Number killed in land wars 2,000 on both sides.
        Number Maori killed by Maori in musket wars prior to 1840
        20,000 to 50,000 One quarter to one half the total Maori population alive in 1800.
        I was at the beach in the weekend catching up on spring chores.
        Lots of evidence of pre contact Maori stone working in the soil as I gardened. I came home to my plot with its fenced off archeological sites.
        What happened to the former owners of both sites?.
        Both tribes were totally wiped out on 26 February 1826 in a genocidal attack by raiding Ngāpuhi.

      • Corky

         /  August 21, 2018

        Not too far off the mark, PS. When people talk of ”Maori time” they aren’t joking. Even Maori joke about Maori time.

  2. PartisanZ

     /  August 21, 2018

    YES!!!

    ‘Tōtara project sets sights on sustainable timber’ – Newsroom

    “In Northland, $1 million dollars, partly funded by the Provincial Growth Fund, is being spent to investigate the feasibility of a tōtara timber industry.”

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/08/20/199880/the-revival-of-the-ttara-industry

    • Gezza

       /  August 21, 2018

      Good to hear – hope it’s a viable proposition.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 21, 2018

        Spikey damn things – grow like weeds up here. Also got a few neighbours spoiling the view.

        • Corky

           /  August 21, 2018

          Those spikey leaves can destroy galvanized steel roofing quicker then anything I know of. Great timber for making Waka.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 21, 2018

      Tōtara timber is pink and resists staining and other treatments, so using it requires pre-treatments (if it’s to be painted. It’s long-lasting; my recycled veranda posts were 80 years old by the time I found them and goodness knows how long they’d been in the tree. Plantation forestry using native trees is potentially a good thing, but care has to be taken not to fall into the traps other experiments of this sort have suffered: think, disease and monocultures; pest insect explosions, fungal blooms…

      • Griff.

         /  August 21, 2018

        Toatare does not need treating .
        Heartwood is the equivalent of h4 ground contact treatment naturally.
        For framing and use not in direct contact with the ground even sap wood from young trees is more resistant to decay or insect attack than h3 treated pine the specified grade under the building code.
        Puriri (Vitex lucens) is another native that is potentially quick growing and has property’s were it does not need treatment for most usage.

  3. Maggy Wassilieff

     /  August 21, 2018

    At the end of the day, NZ does not have a decent Forestry Management Policy.

    With the 1 Billion trees and new enthusiams for natives, we will be heading into many smaller woodlot plantings. The economics and safety issues of such are unknown for most of the country.

    Work on indigenous managed forest (beech, totara, kauri, puriri, rimu, rewarewa, tawa, titoki, etc) was developing well in the 1980s, but came to a dead end with the Demise of NZFS.

    A few farm foresters have shown that we can harvest totara on a 30-50 year cycle… but we are decades behind in knowing what are the best genetic stocks, what silvicultural treatments are cost effective and whether the timber grades can get industry accreditation.

  4. lurcher1948

     /  August 21, 2018

    Andrew Dickens is going full on rightwing hatred today over a relieving teacher taking her baby to work out in the boonies teaching young rug rats,but the 12am to 5am NAZI Bruce Russell was full on muslim immigrants should be barred with rightwing knuckle draggers wanting the army to be called in,and vigilantes squads shooting muslims, i respected bruce once but to many veges has mushed his brains and to much FOX news has turned him and hes an altright NAZI and he finished his hate feast with someone suing Mc Donald in march for $1.5 million(i Checked) “and his last words were and yes he was an african American”but who knows i saw no pictures on google but ALL RIGHTWINGERS ARE RACISTS..prove me wrong, hate maoris any muslims the elderly,workers,nasty rightwing, the rightwing hatred on NZME newstalkZB is sickening,NAZI fake news

    • Corky

       /  August 21, 2018

      Er, Lurchy. These posts are telling us more about you then Righties. Is it true your favourite fruit are Lemons?

  5. Corky

     /  August 21, 2018

    Poor old Zac Wallace. He has finally woken up to the fact Labour couldn’t give a rats arse about Maori.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12111005

    • Gezza

       /  August 21, 2018

      From the article:

      “Wallace’s outburst came a few hours before Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis, of Ngāpuhi, was scheduled to give a speech calling on changes to reduce the number of Māori in prison.

      Davis sought out Wallace during a break to explain his hopes for changing the number of Māori in prison.

      Wallace said he believed Davis would make a good contribution.

      “To have a Māori in that position is a big change from having a Pakeha in that position.”

      • Corky

         /  August 21, 2018

        What’s your point given Davis is a House Maori ( in my opinion)?

        • Gezza

           /  August 21, 2018

          My point is I think you’re talking shit.

          • Corky

             /  August 21, 2018

            Temper, Temper.

            Wallace:

            ”I can’t see Māori representation, yet the opening address is about Māori in jail. If we are 52 per cent of the prison population, why aren’t we 52 per cent of the people speaking?”

            Now that is shit.

            Davis failed with Charter Schools. He will fail with this. That’s also shit.

            • Gezza

               /  August 21, 2018

              It is nothing to do with temper, it is my simple assessment of the quality of your opinion.

              Bear with me – I shall explain further why i consider that your initial comment, imo, has the quality of sewage.

              Poor old Zac Wallace. He has finally woken up to the fact Labour couldn’t give a rats arse about Maori.

              There is considerable evidence that Labour and even NZF do give a rat’s arse about Maori. For example, although PM Jacinda has made it clear that this government does not (loudly) go along with National/Maori Party initiatives such as Whanau Ora, their approaching in providing the Winter Energy payments, raising the minimum wage and other moves intended to assist the low paid and beneficiaries have the effect of improving the lot of many Maori.

              The PM chose a Maori name for her tamariki numero uno.

              The Labour Deputy Leader is not up to the job of being deputy leader in the House, but he clearly knows his onions when it comes to speaking on marae and interacting with Maori at local level. Shane Jones has also been provided by Labour with a PGF treasure chest which is already being heavily used to promote Maori or Maori partnership ventures.

              Andrew Little & Kelvin Davis have both been pushing out statements, for some time that too many Maori are in prison and they want to reduce the amount of intial offending and reoffending by Maori. Everyone knows that will require developing and funding a range of initiatives that will necessarily have to be aimed specifically at assisting Maori – even if some are packaged as generic measures.

              Andrew Little has at least had the balls to go up North and argue things out with Ngapuhi malcontents. In my opinion this will garner him some respect with many Ngapuhi if not all.

              That is not to say that the road ahead will not be rocky for Labour – but I do not believe this administration intends to shit on them having got their votes in the same way the Clark administration chose to do.

            • Corky

               /  August 21, 2018

              Well, that’s an impressive reply. However, I don’t go by facts like those. I go by past results , experience and intuition. So I guess I can understand how you perceive my very simple comments and opinions as sewage.

              However, I stand by my comments. Time will be the judge

            • Gezza

               /  August 21, 2018

              PS: that said, I am curious that there was apparently so little representation of Maori organisations at this Criminal Justice Summit, but I have heard next to nothing about it at this stage so I don’t propose to go off half-cocked on the basis of one sensationalised account of one reporter.