Justice summit and “unless we’re willing to decolonise”

Green MP continues to attract attention on Twitter. On Tuesday she said “We can’t fix our justice system unless we’re willing to decolonise. That begins with handing the mic over to tangata whenua.”

Someone else asked the obvious question: What does willingness to decolonise mean?

Ghahraman:

It means acknowledging this prison industrial syndrome existed before colonisation.

I have no idea what she means by that.

It means prioritising Māori tikanga at every level so tangata whenua have the outcomes they deserve in health, education, employment…Mostly, that they get to say what those systems looks like.

Certainly Māori should have a say in what health, education, employment systems should look like, but those systems have to cater for all New Zealanders – better for Māori for sure, but for everyone else too.

Ghahraman wasn’t the only person referring to colonisation.

Sio is an Labour MP (who migrated to New Zealand from Samoa when he was eight years old).

Sure, the effects of colonisation need to be considered amongst all other factors in which (some) Māori are adversely affected.

But decolonisation?

This was mentioned by two speakers at the justice summit. Newsroom: Systemic concerns outlined at justice summit

Former police officer and Te Puea Marae chairman Hurimoana Dennis…

…spoke about “the big brown elephant in the room” which had in the past been ignored but was now front and centre.

“I have to say I’m extremely encouraged by the language that you’re using, the audacious position that you’ve put yourselves in, and the direction – tena koutou.”

Dennis said one of his concerns was the lack of a consistent strategy by and for Māori across the entire justice system, setting “terms of engagement”.

“We’re talking about a 30-year system focused on punitive and colonial attitudes and now we’re saying we need to change that – this is not going to happen overnight, it will take time.”

Laura O’Connell Rapira, the co-director of ActionStation…

… said the campaign group had carried out a survey on Māori perspectives of the justice system, with 90 percent agreeing that structural racism, colonisation and intergenerational trauma were the reasons for their over-representation in the prison population.

“It speaks to the need for systemic change, really transformative change, and my hope is that is what comes out of this hui because it’s been called for pretty much my whole life from Māori communities.”

Associate Justice Minister Aupito William Sio agreed that colonisation was an issue that could not be ignored, but warned there was no quick fix.

“We’re talking about a 30-year system focused on punitive and colonial attitudes and now we’re saying we need to change that – this is not going to happen overnight, it will take time.”

Justice and prison systems largely based on British systems certainly have flaws and need to be improved, as do outcomes for Māori – not just involving crime, but their whole family and social systems, including education, employment and health.

But the current system can’t just be replaced. It somehow has to be improved, and Māori  need to play a significant role in how that is done.

Talking about the effects of colonisation is important, but  I don’t think that throwing potentially divisive terms like decolonisation into the discussion help. We all have to work together on this, an us and them attitude is unlikely to fix anything.

However as Māori   are a big part of the justice problems, they need to take prominent roles in looking for solutions.

Learning from the past is fine, just blaming the past is unlikely to lead to positive change,.

 

193 Comments

  1. sorethumb

     /  August 23, 2018

    Historical Trauma, Race based Trauma Resilience of Indigenous Peoples: A literature review

    Abadian (2006) made a similar argument as Denham (2008) in her presentation at the “Healing our Spirits Worldwide” conference. She argues that cultural renewal can be as dangerous as it can be rehabilitative. She refers to the Lakota people’s historical attempts to renew culture that ended tragically – as in the 1890 Massacre of Wounded Knee. Furthermore, other so-called cultural renewals, such as Hitler’s attempts to renew the “great Aryan nation” or Serbia’s attempt at cultural resurgence have all ended horribly and been toxic to survivors. Abadian argues that cultural renewal requires paying attention to the stories that one tells themselves in relationship to others and who is responsible for the way things currently are. She refers to these stories as meta-narratives – and asserts that toxic cultural renewal is an outcome of toxic cultural narratives. In turn, these cultural narratives are the outcome of past traumas. The first step in the regeneration of healthy and affirming cultures is the telling of life-affirming and healthy narratives. She draws on the example of a young child who was sexually abused by an extended family member. Because the child only has “pre-operational thinking” (Piaget, 1928) or believes that everything that happens is as a direct
    result of what they have done, they come to believe that any harm that occurs is their fault. This child thus goes through his life believing he is damaged, unloveable and unworthy of healthy relationships. These “post-traumatic” narratives tend to be habitual, frozen in the past, self-referential and selfreinforcing. In the same way, entire communities can pass on
    unhealthy narratives to future generations.

    https://fncaringsociety.com/sites/default/files/online-journal/vol5num1/Fast-Collin-Vezina_pp126.pdf

    • Pickled Possum

       /  August 23, 2018

      This post has been taken over by raycysts who got kicked off wail oil.
      People who think they have knowledge of Te Ao Maori when they are the kings of NOTHING

      • sorethumb

         /  August 23, 2018

        So you have a response to the above or are you just going to resort to ad hominem?

  2. Corky

     /  August 23, 2018

    ”It means acknowledging this prison industrial syndrome existed before colonisation.”

    Proof positive many of these Greenies are nutters. I don’t know what the above means but I know it’s nutty.

    However, it’s good these people are spouting such inanities. It shows the rest of us what we must fight against. It tells us these people have a paucity of ideas to move us forward. They prefer to dwell in the cellar of history looking for some magic bullet to make things better.

    But best of all it tells us this rotten government needs the heave-ho at the next election.

    • sorethumb

       /  August 23, 2018

      Golriz comes across as thoroughly spoilt with a dislike of white people.

      It is acknowledged that white children raised by native Americans preferred the Indian life (10/13). But that is because when you step from hunter gatherer ( and growing kumara) to industrial society we can no longer do what we want; we have to be at work at 6am to be at (B) by 8:30 etc,etc.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 23, 2018

        She’s a spoilt brat for sure, as I said earlier. Nobody has told her she talks crap and should learn to listen before she opens her mouth.

        • robertguyton

           /  August 23, 2018

          sore thumb and Alan: “Spot a spoiled brat from a mile off! Hurrumph!”

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 23, 2018

            Nah, got to get closer than that, Robert. At least close enough to read what she writes or hear what she says.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      “I don’t know what the above means but I know it’s nutty.”
      Perhaps…work it out, or ask for help.

      • Corky

         /  August 23, 2018

        I’m asking for help..away you go.

        • robertguyton

           /  August 23, 2018

          “”It means acknowledging this prison industrial syndrome existed before colonisation.”
          Is she referring to life in pre-Cook Britain; where there were industries and prisons?
          Pre-colonisation (by Europeans) New Zealand won’t have had such things. I think that’s what Gloria may have meant.

          • Corky

             /  August 23, 2018

            That’s what I surmised she meant. But it may mean anything once you start analysing this prattle.

            Does she mean Maori ( slaves) or European prison industrial syndrome ? If British, how can you compare the present with the past? Maybe she was talking of a press gang mentality. Haven’t seen many of those around lately.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 23, 2018

              I am amazed that James Shaw hasn’t told her to pull her head in. The claims that she made about being the first woman Minister of Defence when she wouldn’t be even if she WAS the Minister, which she’s not, make the Greens look absurd.

              She’s a total embarrassment, and, thanks to the internet, the whole world knows that she is an NZ MP.

  3. sorethumb

     /  August 23, 2018

    The government has had a laissez-faire approach to what is taught in our institutions (with our money). it is time to challenge it. I can’t see Labour being interested though, they are the problem.
    Guyon Espiner now feels he has a right to announce each region with it’s Maori name when he reads the weather; the public are now students and the media (at the politicians directive) are senior.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      The media have always, by necessity, pronounced words and used words in forms that upset someone. I remember bristling at the pronunciation ,by newsreaders, of the names of the days of the week; Mondee, Tuesdee etc. until I realised/decided that it was interesting to hear other ways and have the opportunity to expand my own vocabulary and range of pronunciation. I really enjoy hearing the use of the reo Maori wherever I hear it, especially place names.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 23, 2018

        Mondee is an old one; Solomon Grundy, born on Mondee etc.

    • sorethumb

       /  August 23, 2018

      Things haven’t improved since “kill a white”?

  4. Sort of. It’s complicated.

    Who are the victims of the gang shooting in Whanganui?

    • sorethumb

       /  August 23, 2018

      Which victims are also offenders.

    • Corky

       /  August 23, 2018

      ”The truth is victims and offenders are often the same people”

      Reminds me of another bullshit phrase:

      I love you..but I don’t like you.

      Once liberals realised that was bs even by their standards, it became:

      I love you..but I don’t like what you do.

  5. Trevors_elbow

     /  August 23, 2018

    So is a colonist from Samoa ffs!!!!

    This Marxist kant about colonialism ignores the fact that many Maori Rangitira SOUGHT Queen Victoria’s protect from Nga Puhi, Waikato because they were being slaughter by them…

    Frankly this PCSD bs is just total oversell…

  6. Rickmann

     /  August 23, 2018

    How long before a non-Maori (white, asian and islander) backlash is felt at the ballot box ? And, who elected Radio NZ journalists to engineer our everyday language t the point where a growing number of us can not understand what is being said or written because of the growing number of Maori words being used ?

    • sorethumb

       /  August 23, 2018

      and they have the gaul to tell us “a lot of positive comments …blah blah”. I pick if it intensely annoys some, it annoys many. Just like Don Brash’s orewa speech (80%) supported. People should keep texting 2101. F Off Guyon.

  7. Gerrit

     /  August 23, 2018

    Without a full explanation of what this magic “decolonisation” looks like, can it be assumed that “decolonisation” means Maori will go back to the pre colonised days where tribe fought tribe for territory and resources and where the vanquished were cooked and eaten or enslaved?

    Will Ngapuhi hordes come down from the north and decimate the six Auckland tribes? Will Tainui invade the Taupo region and displace Ngāti Tūwharetoa as owners of Lake Taupo (with attending yet to be apportioned water rights)?

    Now all this sounds silly and it is, but short of explaining what this “decolonisation” entails any conclusion is valid.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      Is there a definition of “decolonisation” anywhere? We should find it and consider it…so we know what we’re criticising.

      • Gerrit

         /  August 23, 2018

        Problem is it means different things to different people. To me it means the Treaty of Waitangi is gone. (see post below)

        Getting consensus on what this decolonisation consists off and how New Zealand society will look like is, I imagine, far harder to articulate.

        As the lyrics in the “Last Ride Of The Day” by Nightwish say

        “It’s hard to light a candle, easier to curse the dark instead”

        So who will light the candle and illuminate the dark?

      • sorethumb

         /  August 23, 2018

        postmodernist bananas.

      • Pink David

         /  August 23, 2018

        “Is there a definition of “decolonisation” anywhere?”

        Zimbabwe has been very successful at deolonisation.

        • robertguyton

           /  August 23, 2018

          That’s not a definition.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  August 23, 2018

            They can be said to have succeeded at decolonisation, but replaced it with something just as bad or even worse.

            I saw a black Zimbabwean woman on the news before one of their ‘elections’.

            She was bringing up several orphaned grandchildren, and was a widow, so no support in this. She had been threatened with death if she voted, so as she said, why would she vote ? It just wasn’t worth the penalty if she did.

            The vote is so precious that I can’t understand people here who throw theirs away and don’t bother.I wonder what that woman would think of this; she wanted to vote for change but couldn’t.

          • Blazer

             /  August 23, 2018

            you need to go to Golriz or Goria as you call her and ask her for a definition.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 23, 2018

              Good luck with being given one that makes any sense and isn’t full of cant and weasel words.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Surely someone here has it! They’ve been decrying her for using the term: are you saying they don’t know what they’re moaning about?
              Some one here must be able to furnish us with a definition!
              Sorethumb seems to think it means, “postmodernist banana!”, but I don’t rate him as far as comprehension goes. Blazer? Do you have any idea?

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Kitty; you’re a terribly clever woman; what does “decolonisation” mean?
              We’re busy decrying the term here but I’m not sure anyone knows what they’re talking about. I’m certain you will.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 23, 2018

              No, thank you; I am not such a fool as to accept that invitation.You just want me to say it so that you can make a lot of silly remarks.

  8. Gerrit

     /  August 23, 2018

    Does “decolonisation” mean the document that defines colonisation is now redundant?

    The Treaty of Waitangi gone?

    Maori finally starting to stand on their own two feet with alongside all other New Zealand immigrants?

    That is to be 100% encouraged. I could vote for this “decolonisation” and removal of the Treaty of Waitingi.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      It means different things to different people and to you Gerrit, it means scrapping a contract, dust-binning a treaty? Pretty extreme move and who ever would enter into any sort of agreement with you, knowing you’ve got form when it comes to not honouring what you’ve agreed to?

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 23, 2018

        Who would ever enter into a contract that had no termination conditions?

        • robertguyton

           /  August 23, 2018

          Are you suggesting, Alan, that Maori might enjoy the opportunity to terminate the treaty? You could hardly hand that opportunity to the colonisers alone, would you? Who’d sign something the dominant party could pull out of, without the consent of the minor party? Would you?

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  August 23, 2018

            Exactly. Which is another reason the Treaty is not a proper contract, simply a political manifesto.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              The Treaty is not a proper contract. Breathtakingly bold of you to say so, Alan. Are you a contract or treaty lawyer? I guess you’d have to know what you were talking about to make that claim. Perhaps you do. What evidence do you have to back your assertion?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              Ask any commercial lawyer. They’d laugh the thing out the door before they’d allow any client to sign it on either side.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              “Commercial lawyers”, Alan?
              Specialists in treaties signed between nations, are they?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              You mean vague political aspirations that wouldn’t even rank as a heads of agreement in any commercial undertaking?

              I’ve no problem with you calling it a Treaty but calling it a contract is just laughable.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              The people who wrote this legal dictionary weren’t writing humour, I’m pretty sure!

              “A treaty is in the nature of a contract between nations.” The Berne Convention is an example of a treaty. Treaties are just contractsbetween a select number of states by which the signatories to conduct themselves in a certain way or to do a certain thing, such as the North American Free-Trade Agreement (NAFTA).
              Treaty Definition – Duhaime.org
              http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/T/Treaty.aspx
              (my bold)

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              Treaties can be terminated at will by either party and are often not worth the paper they are written on. Some contract.

        • Gezza

           /  August 23, 2018

          Who would ever enter into a contract that had no termination conditions?
          Queen Victoria – through her representative(s)

      • Gerrit

         /  August 23, 2018

        The treaty is an colonising document. So by your definition some colonisation is OK?

        • robertguyton

           /  August 23, 2018

          That’s a non sequitur if ever I say one, Gerrit.
          “Some colonisation” is inevitable. When it comes with an agreed-upon contract, the chances of it being more fair to the colonised people, is far higher, Imo.

  9. Gezza

     /  August 23, 2018

    Reposted from yesterday:

    sorethumb / August 22, 2018
    Fewer people in prison, more rehabilitation, more Police on the beat. That’s all well and good. But will it happen and will it make any difference? Criminologist Greg Newbold thinks the Justice Summit is a waste of time.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/2018659262/will-justice-summit-achieve-anything
    … …
    Alan Wilkinson / August 22, 2018
    So he wasn’t invited according to Garrett.
    … …
    Gezza / August 22, 2018
    No – Newbold WAS invited. He says so in the audio clip.

    He didn’t go because he’s been to so many of these over the years and they all turned out to be talk fests by people who weren’t criminologists or involved in any meaningful way with prisoner rehabilitation & simply don’t know what they are talking about.

    None of these previous summits have ever made a blind bit of difference to the re-offending / recidivism rate & he wasn’t going to waste his time on any more of them.

    He’s an interesting listen.
    … … … … …

    Greg Newbold (paraphrased):

    * “I was a prisoner. I was in prison for fourteen years.”

    * “What are Maori voices? I was in prison with them. Their voices sound the same as mine”

    * “There are more Maori gang members now than ever before.”

    * How does helping them connect with whanau help? When all the whanau is IN the GANG. That’s not helping them.”

    * When you ask prisoners what do they want? What to they need that will make you not want to come back here, they all say ‘I’ll do anything I need to get out of here and stay out this time. I don’t want to come back here’? Then when they get out, and they go and do it again and they’re back in.”

    *What would I do? Build more prisons. But make them better ones. Resource them properly, Put in all the staff and services that are needed. Double bunking is terrible. Our prisons are horrible places full of testosterone. I’ve got a guy writing to me at the moment. He’s trying to study. But he can’t. All his cellmate wants to do is play guitar. It’s hopeless. Here’s someone who actually wants to use his time to better himself – and the conditions make it impossible for him to actually do it.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 23, 2018

      As I’ve said before the obvious solution is to privatise the prisons on contracts that incentivise the providers to rehabilitate. But the loony socialists will never do that so nothing will change

      • robertguyton

         /  August 23, 2018

        Again with the looney slurs, Alan. When SERCO is the private prison operator, do you really believe they’ll honour any contract, let alone one that requires finesse, such as rehabilitating criminals? Sounds a looney faith you have in private enterprise.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  August 23, 2018

          What utter twaddle, Robert. That exemplifies the way the Left earn their loony badge. The whole commercial world operates by honouring enforceable contracts and proper adjudication of these by the courts is what separates decent countries from the hellholes. Maori supported Serco because it treated them better. When Serco messed up they were penalised under their contract. When Corrections mess up it is covered up and nothing happens.

          • robertguyton

             /  August 23, 2018

            Did SERCO honour their contracts, Alan? I believe there was a great deal of discussion and action around the fact that they didn’t . It may be that no matter who was in charge, messes were covered up, but that doesn’t support your claim that private providers are the solution to rehabilitating prisoners. That’s merely your opinion and equally as looney as any other (unless you can prove otherwise).

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              Yes, Serco honoured their contract and paid out on the penalty clauses as required. Any more red herrings?

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Why did they pay a penalty? Was it because they failed to honour their contract? Any more looney comments?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              Don’t be terminally stupid, Robert.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              You can’t answer my three questions, Alan? Just the insult in place of an intelligent response? (That’s two more questions. They’re building up!)

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              Oh for heavens sake. A contract specifies standards to be met and penalties for failing to meet them. They are the kind of incentives I mentioned. Honouring a contract means abiding by its terms which is what Serco did. The Govt terminated the contract for political reasons only – as required by Labour’s union bosses and funders.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Serco failed to meet the standards agreed to?
              Why then, would you trust them with rehabilitating prisoners; because they can pay their way out???
              For heaven’s sake!

            • PDB

               /  August 23, 2018

              So you are arguing that having state-run prisons not meeting standards (as many currently do) and having no incentive to improve is better than a private-run prison that has penalties and thus an incentive to perform?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              Because like any commercial enterprise they will strive to avoid having to pay penalties and will innovate and correct accordingly. Also if they fail on any continuing basis they will face competition from companies which can do a better job. That is how the real world works and why you can live the lifestyle you do.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              @PDB, yep, that’s what the Left always believe. It’s a strong case for the loony label.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              PDB – “so you are arguing…” nope.
              Alan: Serco were not a success. You know why.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              @Robert, tell the Maori who supported them that. We know exactly why Labour terminated their contract and it had nothing whatever to do with performance. Don’t be a liar as well as loony.

            • PDB

               /  August 23, 2018

              Partnership schools were overall a success Robert but the govt axed them for purely ideological reasons.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Alan, don’t call me lair, you fool
              PDB; no, they weren’t, they were something else, something perhaps too subtle for you to grasp.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Or liar, neither!

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              You’ll probably get called what you deserve, Robert. Don’t pretend either charter schools or Serco were axed on merit rather than union pressure.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              No, Alan. I don’t deserved to be called a liar, because I’m not lying. Nor am I pretending; I’m doing as you do, presenting my genuinely-held views. Less of the unpleasant ad homs would be appreciated.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              If you are not a liar where is the evidence that either Serco or Charter schools had failed on performance. We know the unions hated them and bankroll the Labour Party.

        • Trevors_elbow

           /  August 23, 2018

          Cap fits you very well Robert. Looney is as looney does. and you is as u does…

          • robertguyton

             /  August 23, 2018

            Trevor – your contribution is gratuitous and of no value what so ever. Name calling…I remember back to my primary school days when that was de rigueur

      • sorethumb

         /  August 23, 2018

        There is an issue of left-wing indoctrination.

        • robertguyton

           /  August 23, 2018

          Indoctrination…from which, sore thumb, you and you alone are miraculously free!

    • PDB

       /  August 23, 2018

      More, smaller prisons would greatly help, spread the gang members/ Maori offenders as far and as thin as possible across the country. Currently large prisons are recruitment bases for gangs.

      I remember in the 1990s sometimes having to oversee PD gang works – they too were used by crims to expand their criminal dealings, associates & networks. Like a ‘linkedin’ for criminals.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      Ear plugs?

      • Gezza

         /  August 23, 2018

        Be an idiot with someone else please robert.

        • robertguyton

           /  August 23, 2018

          Why is the suggestion to wear earplugs in a noisy environment when you want to study, idiotic, Gezza?

          • Gezza

             /  August 23, 2018

            I play guitar all day – whenever I want to. Imagine me being a hulking great gang member in our tiny double bunked cell while you think you’re going to sit quietyl on your bunk, studying with ear plugs, robert. I played in a band for some years. We wore ear plugs sometimes. You can still hear each other speak.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Back in the day (your day) Gezza, earplugs were less effective than the ones available now. I’m guessing it’s an acoustic guitar; do you know if his cell mate is “hulking” and in any case, some big blokes move about quietly. That said, I don’t support double-bunking in prisons. Judith Collins gleefully endorsed them, psychopathically, and Labour has failed to remedy that situation…yet. I certainly hope they will, and quickly.

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Best thing might be for you do a week’s lag double bunked with a guitar player. Rob a few dairies with a sawn-off, robert. Make sure your face is visible or leave your card. Then let'[s talk again.

              Did you listen to Greg Newbold?

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              I need to experience prison before I can comment on it, Gezza?
              Does that apply to you also?
              Perhaps you’ve been inside, I don’t know. I did a series of visits to prison recently and have a friend, now out, whom I talk with about all sorts of issues; is that good enough?
              That said, I empathise with the guy who wants to study. I’m just trying to find the best possible practical solution; what’s your suggestion?

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Did you listen to Greg Newbold?

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              I haven’t listened to Newbold, only read transcripts, just as I haven’t listened to any of the other submitters, but isn’t that the purpose of a summit; listening to all views? Commenters here seem very exclusive and reactive. I’m more interested in hearing a range of suggestions. Do you think my ideas are idiotic? I thought your suggestion that I rob a dairy was.

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Listen to Greg Newbold.

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Your friend – the ex-con. Which gang is he – or was he in, robert?

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Well, Gezza, I respect his privacy, so won’t comment on his circumstances. Which gang do the white collar criminals presently behind bars belong to?

            • PDB

               /  August 23, 2018

              Its on the public record Robert.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Of course it is, PDB, as those details should be.

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              He had a mental health problem and he isn’t in a gang robert.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Thanks for filling me in on those details, Gezza; the things you learn here on yournz!

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              I don’t see any relevance here to Robert’s support for his friend.

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Not a problem. I’m surprised you picked up something you don’t already know.

          • Gezza

             /  August 23, 2018

            I need to experience prison before I can comment on it, Gezza? Does that apply to you also?
            Of course not. Where did I say that. We’re both commenting on it.

            Perhaps you’ve been inside, I don’t know.
            1. No. I was brought up not to do things that would put me there.
            2. Two rellies, married, both corrections officers at Spring Hill
            3. One friend, corrections officer at Rimutaka for 3 years, until he got trapped in an inmate’s cell, beaten up, resulting in a back injury that required him to give it up,

            I did a series of visits to prison recently and have a friend, now out, whom I talk with about all sorts of issues; is that good enough?
            1. He doesn’t appear to be Maori, and he doesn’t appear to be in a gang.
            2. That’s the topic. Not someone who has psychoses that require mental health treatment – for which I admire your support and I hope it all works out.

            That said, I empathise with the guy who wants to study. I’m just trying to find the best possible practical solution; what’s your suggestion?
            More prisons. Better ones. Single cells. Properly resourced & funded. Mental health services. Education services. Job training. Network of employers. Supervision on release. Do something to get rid of the gangs. Maori to reject the gangs.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Rejecting gangs is one thing (are all gangs the same?) but rejecting gang members might be a very different thing altogether, especially for their whanau and who knows how broad that term is. I reckon it’s complex and requiring of long-term, nuanced action across the “board”, hence my support for a Justice summit. Your other suggestions are good.

            • PDB

               /  August 23, 2018

              This isn’t one summit but the start of a series of summits where avoiding the real issues driving such things as the high rate of criminal offending by Maori will be ignored as they appear to have done here.

              You are correct in saying that it will take a long term solution (and the now axed ‘social investment’ scheme would have been a good step in the right direction) but there is no evidence that this is being looked at here. Davis suggested in his speech that Maori are being unfairly targeted by the ‘system’ (i.e. not their fault) and little mention has been had of sorting the gang problem that is on the increase. Andrew Little appears to want to artificially lower the prison rate by having more people on bail etc which won’t work and was the reason bail laws were tightened in the first instance.

              All the talk thus far has been in an effort to distance themselves from actually addressing a few difficult home truths. I don’t expect that to change and if it doesn’t the problem will remain, or even grow to affect more people.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              “This isn’t one summit but the start of a series of summits where avoiding the real issues driving such things as the high rate of criminal offending by Maori will be ignored as they appear to have done here.”
              In your opinion and that’s heavily weighted against the present Government so I’d hardly expect you to be supportive. I don’t think your view carries much weight. I believe they intend to improve the situation, as politicians generally (but not always) tend to do.

            • PDB

               /  August 23, 2018

              Time will tell Robert but I wouldn’t get your hopes up as this govt has a policy of all hui and no doey.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              “this govt has a policy of all hui and no doey”
              No, it doesn’t. Your political bias is whispering that in your ear, PDB, but it’s not true , nor does it make sense, common or otherwise.

            • PDB

               /  August 23, 2018

              Of course it makes sense Robert – unfit & unprepared to govern they needed to create themselves some breathing space through multiple summits, committees & working groups to fool simple souls & sycophants that something was ‘happening’.

              Fooled you.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Unfit etc…bullsh*t, PDB. Though I’ve appreciated your more measured debating habits of late (less ad hominem etc.) I can’t go past your spouting sectarian nonsense like that and really, it does you no credit to revert to echoing party lines like that. You’re clearly a thinking man; think your own thoughts and share those, rather than the stuff fed to the sycophants by the party PR people. ‘k?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 23, 2018

              As nobody would be any the wiser about the identity of the friend, I can’t see why you can’t say what kind of crime they committed.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Kitty, you’re trailing the chase a little bit these days: PDB posted a link to the story (above) from which you will learn all you desire to know.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 23, 2018

          There are no earplugs now and never have been any that cancel out all noise.

          Even noise-cancelling earphones aren’t 100% effective.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  August 23, 2018

            Well, good luck with a friend who does that sort of thing.

          • robertguyton

             /  August 23, 2018

            Doesn’t need to be 100% – it’s not a meditation retreat, it’s a prison cell!

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 23, 2018

              There doesn’t seem much point in using them, then.

              Try studying with someone playing a guitar a few feet away.

  10. Gezza

     /  August 23, 2018

    Ghahraman:
    It means acknowledging this prison industrial syndrome existed before colonisation.

    It means prioritising Māori tikanga at every level so tangata whenua have the outcomes they deserve in health, education, employment…Mostly, that they get to say what those systems looks like.

    Fk does she know? Full of bs this girl. See Greg Newbold above.

    Aupito W. Sio, MP
    What would a Justice system look & feel like if we honestly addressed the elephant in the room : colonization, discrimination, racism?

    How come it hasn’t affected you? The Germans colonised Samoa until New Zealand took over at the outbreak of WW1. Tthe New Zealand administration was blamed for mishandling the 1918 influenza pandemic, which killed a fifth of the local population, and what about the Black Saturday Mau massacre by NZ police in 1929? Why aren’t you in prison. You’re from a polynesian culture too.

    Haumoana Dennis
    Dennis said one of his concerns was the lack of a consistent strategy by and for Māori across the entire justice system, setting “terms of engagement”.

    “We’re talking about a 30-year system focused on punitive and colonial attitudes and now we’re saying we need to change that – this is not going to happen overnight, it will take time.”

    Laura O’Connell Rapira, the co-director of ActionStation…
    … said the campaign group had carried out a survey on Māori perspectives of the justice system, with 90 percent agreeing that structural racism, colonisation and intergenerational trauma were the reasons for their over-representation in the prison population.

    “It speaks to the need for systemic change, really transformative change, and my hope is that is what comes out of this hui because it’s been called for pretty much my whole life from Māori communities.”

    When I hear colonialism now I switch off. Because it’s bullshit. Colonialism is long gone. What have now is what we have now. Decades of ever-growing gangs – and members and associates of them in prison. That’s not caused by colonialism. Who’s talking about the gangs?

    Where are the Maori voices from the thousands of Maori people I see working on the roads, driving the diggers? Doing ok not brilliant at school. Up on my roof moss-proofing and having a coffee with me afterwards (because I was making one for myself. The ones who aren’t in prison and never have been. My sister’s father-in-law, the Placemakers manager. The young Maori nurse who took care of my wife in hospital? Never been in prison. Why not? No gang members in the whanau. That’s why.

    Have they caught the mongrel who’s just shot a Mongrel Mob member to death in front of his wife & kids in Castlecliff yet?

    When are Maori going to reject the gangs who commit crime, intimidate & prey on them and others in our society. And stop making excuses.

    THAT’S THE ELEPHANT IN THE BLOODY ROOM. Also see Greg Newbold above – re reconnecting gang members with their whanau.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      We gotta SLAM ’em and SLAM ’em HARD (eh Gezza). None of this namby-pamby searching for the root causes; the very idea that family is the key player in the behaviour of family members is just virtue-signalling, soppy-wet, bleeding heart loopy Lefty MADNESS. Eh!

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      “How come it hasn’t affected you? “, you ask of Aupito W. Sio, MP:
      a supportive and loving whanau, perhaps?

      • Gezza

         /  August 23, 2018

        Maybe. I don’t know. But if he does – how come he’s got one of those?

        • robertguyton

           /  August 23, 2018

          Good fortune. Many Maori have one also.

          • Gezza

             /  August 23, 2018

            I know they do. One of them looked after my wife with me for a year. A kuia.

            Which ones don’t? Statisically, and from the police gang unit profile – which ones don’t?

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Do you know the answer to your question?
              Will you share?

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Gang members and associates. Grandads mums kids and grandkids.

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              And associated whanau partners boyfriends cousins

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Mine was a question; have you any answers or suggestions, Gezza?

          • robertguyton

             /  August 23, 2018

            Are you saying gang members don’t have supportive and loving whanau, Gezza?
            Geddaway!

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Of course they do. They’re in the gang.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              By “whanau” I imagined you meant family-by-blood and while there may be such folk in the gang along with the “blokes” we’re discussing (gang members), I took you to mean those in the team that were clustered around the child initially; did you not? “Supportive and loving whanau”, like the one that looked after your wife with you for a year.

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              By “whanau” I imagined you meant family-by-blood and while there may be such folk in the gang along with the “blokes” we’re discussing (gang members)

              I did. And I am not kidding. They’re in or associated with or partnered to or not partnered but had kids to – the gangs. They infest Maori society.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              “They infest Maori society”
              Why?

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Exactly!

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Oops, misplaced my response (above)

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Stay on the ball please. Ask it again. And make it clearer what exactly you are asking this time.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              You said, “They infest Maori society”
              I’m asking, “Why do you think that is?”

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Okay, I’ll rephrase: not what makes you think that, but what do think is the reason for that (no links please).

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Because after three generations & heading into the fourth, the major Maori gangs all now have whanaunga networks so extensive they include members from virtually every hapu & whanau.

              I’m answering your question correctly.

              Is there actually a different question you want an answer to that you haven’t actually asked yet?

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Yes, thanks, Gezza. Do you think gangs are a natural result of Maori whanaungatanga, or the result of oppression/disadvantage as a result of colonialism?

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Yes, thanks, Gezza.
              You’re welcome.

              Do you think gangs are a natural result of Maori whanaungatanga?
              No.

              or the result of oppression/disadvantage as a result of colonialism
              No.

            • PDB

               /  August 23, 2018

              NZ gangs are simply ‘copy-cat’ or extended chapters of existing gangs from the USA and Australia. You see that with more recent gangs that have popped up in NZ.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Are you working to rule, Gezza?
              Tell us your thoughts about gangs; their raison d’être, their future, as you see it, their value or otherwise and any solution to “the gang problem” that you might have. Thanks.

            • Gezza

               /  August 23, 2018

              Are you working to rule, Gezza?
              No. I’m just not wasting my time on your tweets any more.

              Tell us your thoughts about gangs;
              their raison d’être

              It no longer matters what swere their different reasons for their origins – it was decades ago. The people who started them are now grandparents, still in the bloody gangs. Now they are simply breeding their own as well as recruiting more members. One of the reasons they now exist is to control one area and war with gangs who control other areas. Don’t you follow the news?

              their future, as you see it
              Their membership as I understand it is growing. Until Maori utterly reject them I see little prospect of that changing. Gang tikanga is not Maori tikanga. Gang kaupapa is not Maori kaupapa.

              their value or otherwise
              Otherwise. They are our Cosa Nostra. They prey on society and cynically & ruthlessly exploit both whanaungatanga & anti-pakeha sentiment to recruit impressionable, undeducated, unemployable drug addicted young people, get breeding stock, & secure ongoing support & excuses from the very people they recruit from.

              and any solution to “the gang problem” that you might have.
              The solution to the gang problem is for Maori to reject them.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 23, 2018

        So when whanau are utter crap what will you replace it with?

      • PDB

         /  August 23, 2018

        The pacific island prison rate is in line with their % of population in this country even though they are not white, and like Maori live in some of the worst areas with some of the least money & have a history of European colonisation.

        This suggests the problem is not one of race/colour/colonialism but with Maori themselves & in particular Maori gang culture that is normalised, tolerated, turned-a-blind-eye to, or in some cases glorified within certain Maori communities.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  August 23, 2018

          As immigrants they feel a need to earn their living rather than be given it. They respect family as well and expect fathers to be responsible for theirs.

          In short their culture is healthy rather than hopelessly diseased.

          • robertguyton

             /  August 23, 2018

            The culture of our treaty partners and indigenous peoples is “hopelessly diseased” – what should we do about that; they’re our partners after all!

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  August 23, 2018

              No, the culture of some Maori is hopelessly diseased. Too many for sure. Don’t know the answer. Nor do they. That’s why it is hopeless.

  11. sorethumb

     /  August 23, 2018

    I had a thought: could the “great migrations” of Maori from the country to the cities be linked to a census from the 1950’s (?) which showed we were 95% European? I listened to a historian who wrote a book about a history of our towns and he noted that (actually) Maori were visible around towns prior to “the great migrations”?

  12. sorethumb

     /  August 23, 2018

    Recalling Aotearoa. Indigenous Politics
    and Ethnic Relations in New Zealand.
    Reviewed by Simone Drichel.
    Recalling Aotearoa. Indigenous Politics and Ethnic Relations in New Zealand.
    Edited by Augie Fleras and Paul Spoonley.
    Auckland: Oxford University Press, 1999.

    The main point is that “indigeneity is more than moving over and making space: it is a direct challenge to prevailing patterns of power and privilege” (73). Maori sovereignty discourses contest the absoluteness of state sovereignty and call for a radical restructuring of the hegemonic relationship between the state and Maori, and unless these challenges are met, the old colonial power structures remain in place and Aotearoa/New Zealand will not be properly ‘post-colonial’.

    Chapter 4 gives a very useful overview over the development of the various policies that have structured the relationship between the two Treaty partners up until the 1990s. It concludes that most changes have been cosmetic in nature. In particular, the authors identify three recurrent flaws from which ‘Maori policy’ has suffered over the years: ideologies of universalism (denial of Maori cultural difference), an emphasis on needs rather than rights, and too great a reliance on claims-resolution – ‘righting a wrong’ – as sufficient strategy of coming to terms with colonial injustices. They point out that in the 1990s, “[p]olicy continues to be ‘needs-driven’ in seeking to improve Maori socio-economic status” (131) and argue that such policies are bound to fail because “a needs-driven policy can only go so far in responding to deeply rooted problems, tending to focus on quick-fix remedies rather than long-term solutions” (148). These” deeply rooted problems”, they see in the Crown’s refusal to become serious about the Treaty and engage in a true partnership that acknowledges tino rangatiratanga and its implications of shared sovereignty.
    ETC

    • sorethumb

       /  August 23, 2018

      People haven’t a clue what is going on here and most people in the media wouldn’t have a clue either while those who do are in on it? In other words the state is going along with a radical agenda.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 23, 2018

        Why “radical”?

        The agenda implied in the writings you’ve cited sounds imminently sensible to me …

        • sorethumb

           /  August 23, 2018

          It seems like a leftist inspired cock-up to me (“the wise man built his house upon the rock” and all that)

          • robertguyton

             /  August 23, 2018

            “Leftist-inspired cock-up”
            I thought that passage was…biblical.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 23, 2018

              It is Biblical, of course, we all know that, but that doesn’t negate Thumb’s point.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              What’s Thumb’s “point”?
              I can only see his can’t.
              noun
              1.
              hypocritical and sanctimonious talk, typically of a moral, religious, or political nature.
              (my bold)

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              cant
              (not sure whether spell-check did that or habit).

  13. PartisanZ

     /  August 23, 2018

    “‘Indigenous decolonization’ is a process that indigenous people whose communities were grossly affected by colonial expansion, genocide and cultural assimilation may go through by reframing with other indigenous frameworks of thought, in understanding the history of their colonization and rediscovering their ancestral traditions and cultural values while considering the future simultaneously (Tuhiwai Smith, 1999).”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_decolonization

    The general agreement Treaty Settlements are warranted gives veracity to the idea that colonization lingers long in the system’s institutions … Treaty settlements were initiated first in the late-1930s – precursive to our Centennial – and then reactivated in the late 1970s … 40+ years ago …

    ” … WHILE CONSIDERING THE FUTURE SIMULTANEOUSLY” gives the lie to any idea of a return to pre-colonial ways …

    The infantile ‘Stone Age Culture’ argument, is the Ethni-Treatyphobic simpleton’s ‘out’ of dealing with complex problems IMHO …

    However, this is not to say that more empowered local decision-making, at the whanau-hapu, marae and settlement or ‘community’ level, may not be a very, very good thing …?

  14. PDB

     /  August 23, 2018

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/106501968/homicide-investigation-launched-after-child-dies-in-north-auckland

    “Police have launched a homicide investigation after a child died at an address in Mangawhai, Northland overnight.
    Police were called to the address about 8.15pm on Wednesday after a 2-year-old child died.
    A 30-year-old male had been arrested and charged with assaults a child.
    He would appear in Auckland’s North Shore District Court on Thursday.”

    Very, very sad event – depending on the colour of the 30 year old male would it be fair to have the following responses;

    *Non-Maori male: “Bastard!, hope he rots in jail! Asshole!!”
    *Maori male: “The ‘system’ has let this guy down and colonialism likely to be a big part of him taking the actions he did”.

    Isn’t this unfortunately the attitude of some in this country?

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      No.

      • PDB

         /  August 23, 2018

        I think you’ll find it is exactly that Robert…

    • Pickled Possum

       /  August 23, 2018

      No its just you and your ilk thinks pants down brown

      • PDB

         /  August 23, 2018

        ‘my ilk’ PP? You mean those that don’t agree that colonisation has anything to do with very high Maori crime rates, in this case the very high rates in this country of Maori males killing children? Not that this recent case is one until we know who has committed this crime – that wasn’t my point – my point is that it is ridiculous to have separate views & reasoning on a particular crime depending on the race of the person committing it.

        How often have we heard a serious crime committed by a white person in this country with Irish ancestry was due to the Irish being treated badly in the distant past?

        What do you attribute the high rates of crime committed by Maori to then? Specifically serious crime?

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 23, 2018

      There are plenty of people who would think the system has let down the non-Maori male too PDB … because it would have let him down, ALONG WITH him behaving like a murderous bastard asshole or whatever you want to call him …

      But for “you and your ilk” it has to be ONE OR THE OTHER, doesn’t it?

      It has to be the politics of division, dichotomy, discord and dis-ease … That’s how you keep it safely functioning just the way it is now … Systems justification and maintenance …

      Sick …

      I wonder what part the legal, all-purpose disinhibitor drug alcohol played in this ghastly crime?

      • PDB

         /  August 23, 2018

        “you and your ilk” is simply code for “I’ve no argument so I’m going to call you a racist”. Apologists like yourself & Pickled Possum are part of the problem, not the solution.

        I’ve already suggested above that more, smaller prisons is the answer over the massive monstrosities we have now. I’ve also suggested that Maori need to face up to some serious disfunction within many of their communities and address that rather than excuse it. I’ve also suggested that gang culture shouldn’t be tolerated, normalised or glorified. I’ve also stated the now axed ‘social investment’ policy of the previous govt was a good start in dealing with this issue long-term.

        You contribute nothing.

        • PartisanZ

           /  August 23, 2018

          I’m not calling you a racist PDB … I’m calling you a ‘polarizer’ based on the single comment of yours which I commented on …

          I wasn’t commenting on your previous comments. I certainly wasn’t glorifying or normalizing anything.

          Coincident with the previous government’s “social investment” policy were the construction of several more “massive monstrosity” prisons …

          I too make useful practical suggestions from time to time, so I don’t contribute nothing.

          I believe you contribute mostly division and derision, as in “You contribute nothing” …

          • robertguyton

             /  August 23, 2018

            You make a strong point, PartizanZ. PDB’s opinions are genuinely held, I don’t doubt that, but polar, as you say; lacking in nuance, I’d say and somewhat closed for business; the business of real understanding. I think PDB and his ilk 🙂 fear complexity in discussion and settle quickly to a rough solution that, while blunt and perhaps rough, would do the trick, in their view. Why bother with the details, they think; the problem’s solved, whereas you might be thinking of a multitude of ramifications and outcomes that have to be considered, in your view, before action is taken. It’s a cognitive thing, I reckon and not to be changed easily. It’s probably up to the likes of you to plot a path through the difficulty, for the sake of the subjects of the debate, who themselves might be thinking along PDB’s lines. Tough job, someone has to do it.

            • PDB

               /  August 23, 2018

              No chance of finding a solution to the problem if you are looking in the totally wrong area. Going down the colonisation/racism path to solving the high Maori imprisonment rate is exactly that, especially when the majority of those people are being convicted of serious crime offenses.

            • Corky

               /  August 23, 2018

              ”It’s a cognitive thing, I reckon.”

              Don’t know why that rings a bell..phrase wise.😃

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 23, 2018

              I think that men generally, regardless of race, are roundly condemned for child abuse. Probably more than women are. They can’t offer the excuse that they were forced into it by their wives or girlfriends.

            • robertguyton

               /  August 23, 2018

              Dig deep, corky, and see if you can remember…then share with your mates!

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 23, 2018

              The things done in Ireland were hardly in the distant past.

  15. alloytoo

     /  August 23, 2018

    Casual observation:

    There appears to be a school of thought that suggests indigenous peoples lived like kings and that was curtailed by European colonialism.

    While a few might have lived as kings, the reality is that the vast majority didn’t live much better than European surfs.

    DE colonialism is some kind of pipe dream that suggests if the colonialists with drew along with their institutions, the natives would live in an idyllic paradise.

    Right up until the petrol pumps ran dry and the canned food ran out.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      “There appears to be a school of thought that suggests indigenous peoples lived like kings and that was curtailed by European colonialism.”
      Only in your head. No one else is saying that.

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      Lived like kings? Had crowns? Wore ermine? Sat at the head of tables groaning with dishes of roast pig and peacock-stuffed-with-quail? Wot?

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 23, 2018

        Have you never heard that expression before ? It simply means living in luxury, not literally like a reigning monarch.

        You also seem not to have heard of the ‘noble savage’ school of thought.

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 23, 2018

      The vast proportion of Maori who are probably more cognizant of new-tech, social media, networking and holistic thinking than you will be laughing their heads off alloytoo …

      OMG! Another one who automatically thinks Maori want to go back to pre-colonial times! It’s hilarious. Is this really your 21st Century default position? Really!? It exhibits a deplorable lack of intelligence.

      Well, actually, it exhibits the very systemic racism this whole topic is largely concerned with …

      I reckon most Maori don’t want the colonialists to withdraw along with their institutions …

      They want them to withdraw the colonialism from the institutions and allow Maori to have their say in how those institutions function …

      I believe most Maori have a genuine desire to share power for the betterment of everyone. Certainly that’s the feeling I got from Matike Mai Aotearoa Report … A rather remarkable attitude considering the litany of wrongs done to them over 250 years …

      • Griff.

         /  August 23, 2018

        “I believe most Maori have a genuine desire to share power ”
        Yes we know you think the 14% of Maori should have as much say as the other 86% of us
        That political system is called Apartheid.
        You are the one living in the past.
        Colonialists died out well over a century ago .
        Your consent pleas for special privilege based on race is racism at its most ugly

      • PDB

         /  August 23, 2018

        PZ: “I believe most Maori have a genuine desire to share power for the betterment of everyone.”

        The tribes don’t even want to share power with each other let alone the rest of the country…

        • PartisanZ

           /  August 23, 2018

          Typical over-reaction from Griff … Okay, ” …share power in a Treaty relationship” … which does not mean having equal say with non-Maori …

          In some cases it might warrant them having more say? They generally have a lot less than equal say …

          Typically simplistic reaction from PDB. The Iwi Leaders Group canvassed opinion from all over the country at 252 hui to compile Matike Mai Aotearoa – Report on Constitutional Transformation …

          The Key government’s Constitutional Advisory Panel managed 100 meetings …

          It would appear that iwi wanting iwi representation on Local Government actually do want to share power with the rest of the country …

    • PartisanZ

       /  August 23, 2018

      Interesting analogy about “European serfs” too alloytoo …

      The appalling reality seems to be that many (though not all) European serfs came to New Zealand and tried to live like Kings at the expense of Maori …

      Says a lot for their learning capabilities … “Let’s aspire to be like our unjust, immoral, vicious, vile, criminal Masters” …

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  August 23, 2018

        Really? It seems to me that most if not all came to work hard, build roads and houses and ports, clear land and grow crops and stock and raise children to carry on their work.

  16. Pink David

     /  August 23, 2018

    Hasn’t Golriz Ghahraman colonized our political system?

    • robertguyton

       /  August 23, 2018

      You attribute to much power to Golriz, but, okay…

    • PDB

       /  August 23, 2018

      Ghahraman says she has done a lot of things, most of which are untrue and/or exaggerated.

      • PDB

         /  August 23, 2018

        The most recent example….Australia ‘torturing’ refugee families? Sounds awful! when did this happen?

  17. Blazer

     /  August 23, 2018

    the main trouble with colonisation is they don’t know when to stop…’paving paradise to put in a parking lot’…

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 23, 2018

      No, the main trouble is that Wilson Parking bought it.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 23, 2018

      I note she doesn’t think to mention restitution as an alternative to prison.

      Supposing the proposition that current imprisonment and recidivism are the consequence of colonisation is regarded as a scientific claim, what test could be devised that would disprove it? In other words, does it mean anything useful at all?

  18. Gezza

     /  August 23, 2018

    Re-posted from Media Watch
    Police will be present at Rosehill College tomorrow after massive brawl with around 150 fighters
    Reports of fighting at an Auckland high school were enough for police to turn up twice this afternoon. / Newstalk ZB

    Police plan to have a strong presence at Rosehill College tomorrow morning following fears from students and parents after violent brawls at the school. Inspector Tony Wakelin told the Herald police are aware of safety concerns from students and parents and said police will be present at the school as a precautionary measure.

    Around 150 people were allegedly involved in a fight at the South Auckland high school this afternoon with sickening footage of the violent brawl circulating on social media. he fight broke out about 2pm. There are claims it involved both students and parents.

    Video footage posted on Facebook shows a large group of students in uniform attacking each other with punches and kicks.

    Wakelin said police are making inquiries into today’s incidents at the school and said it is too early to comment on the circumstances.

    “We appreciate there are a number of different reports around what happened at the school and that is why we are looking further into the matter to establish any person’s potential involvement,” he said.

    A parent of a student at the college who is too scared to send his daughter back to class tomorrow told the Herald the fight was believed to be in retaliation to another fight between two male students yesterday. “There was a big fight yesterday and one kid in particular got bashed over, then his parents came down with weapons to the school today, basically as retribution I am guessing.”

    Two students from the school also reported that the parents were from rival gangs, believed to be the Mongrel Mob and Black Power.
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