Open Forum – Friday

24 August 2018

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72 Comments

  1. sorethumb

     /  August 24, 2018

    ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D8l1Emvpnk

  2. sorethumb

     /  August 24, 2018

    • sorethumb

       /  August 24, 2018

      This speaker talks about the dangers of (bad) stories and alcohol. The previous speaker said “colonisation is always with us”.

    • sorethumb

       /  August 24, 2018

      [see 29:00]

  3. Corky

     /  August 24, 2018

    Labours footing the bill for a cycle lane across the Auckland Harbour Bridge. National has to be careful here..Labour is taking care of little things that are adding up. Things National should have done when they had the chance.

    1- Cycle Lane.
    2- New cycle ways nationwide.
    3- Dealing to wheel clampers.
    4- New maintenance schedules for Auckland hospitals.
    5- Movement on teacher and nurses pay negotiations.
    6-Environmental virtue signalling.

    While all these things point to this government knowing they are one term wonders, it may just be enough to hold soft votes. Votes National are going to need at the next election.

    • High Flying Duck

       /  August 24, 2018

      National introduced a national cycleway that has been very successful.
      Labour are dealing with low hanging fruit and getting a short term sugar hit from it.
      Lots of little expenses can add up to an impression they are not being careful with taxpayer money.
      Elections are won on the big issues and on that the jury is still well and truly out.

      • Blazer

         /  August 24, 2018

        how are you measuring the cycle ways success?

        • High Flying Duck

           /  August 24, 2018

          News reports about increased tourism and usage of the cycleways.

    • PDB

       /  August 24, 2018

      Wait until the tax group reports back…won’t be pretty – money desperately needed to prop up this mob’s spending.

      • Corky

         /  August 24, 2018

        Very true. I was going to add that to my comments. But voters are emotional and venal..what’s in it for me. So it will come down to light pockets v heavier pockets. I think Labour realises this regardless of the bill.

        • Corky

           /  August 24, 2018

          Add $28 million the PM has just given to a school. Hands out folks, it’s mana from heaven. At least until the credit card statement arrives.

  4. Gezza

     /  August 24, 2018

    Rosehill College school brawl: Mongrel Mob and Black Power at centre of claims
    Rosehill College students are filing in to school for the last day of the week with one notable change at the entrance to the school, two security guards.

    The Herald has confirmed the security guards are not common place at the school.
    Police also plan to have a strong presence at Rosehill College this morning in response to fears from students and parents after violent brawls at the school yesterday.

    Around 150 people were allegedly involved in a fight at the South Auckland high school on Thursday afternoon with sickening footage of the violent brawl circulating on social media. The fight broke out about 2pm. There are claims it involved both students and parents.

    Video footage posted on Facebook shows a large group of students in uniform attacking each other with punches and kicks.

    Inspector Tony Wakelin told the Herald police were aware of safety concerns from students and parents and police would be present at the school as a precautionary measure. Police were making inquiries into Thursday’s incidents at the school and Wakelin said it was too early to comment on the circumstances. “We appreciate there are a number of different reports around what happened at the school and that is why we are looking further into the matter to establish any person’s potential involvement,” he said.

    A parent of a student at the college who is too scared to send his daughter back to class today told the Herald the fight was believed to be in retaliation to another fight between two male students on Wednesday. “There was a big fight yesterday and one kid in particular got bashed over, then his parents came down with weapons to the school today, basically as retribution I am guessing.”

    Two students from the school also reported that the parents were from rival gangs, believed to be the Mongrel Mob and Black Power.
    More …
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12112344
    ….

    Time to stop the gangs trying to colonise the country.

    Have the police caught the Castlecliff Mongrel Mob member murderer yet? Last night a short online news item said gang leaders were “helping police with their enquries”. Just tell them who’s hiding him & where he is.

    • Corky

       /  August 24, 2018

      The scourge of collectivism, Gezza. One for all. All for one.

      • Corky

         /  August 24, 2018

        I see one of the security guards is Indian. That’s a death sentence should violence erupt again. Bad planning on the part of the security firm. Or maybe no one else was prepared to take the job.

    • High Flying Duck

       /  August 24, 2018

      I wonder if the predominance of Maori in gangs is due to the morphing of the lost tribal culture. There are many similarities between Tribe & Gang, with the obvious exception being the respect for law and ethics.

      From the Guardian:

      “For me, gang is simply another word for tribe. In essence, gangs are good for society. In a healthy state, they are about the formation of groups that operate under ethical and moral codes of conduct upheld and enforced by the elders of the community. If these codes are based in a fundamental respect for society and the individual, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with gangs. If the elders in the gangs have been supported and steered into responsible adulthood and are able in turn to guide and contain the fiery energy of future, younger gang members, society will be a far richer, more connected and ultimately less fearful place.”

      https://www.theguardian.com/society/joepublic/2011/nov/10/gangs-good-society-youth-crime

      • Gezza

         /  August 24, 2018

        I guess so. If the lost tribes were violent criminals.

        Stop making excuses. Gangs are pan-tribal. Gang tikanga is not Maori tikanga. Gang kaupapa is not Maori kaupapa.

        • robertguyton

           /  August 24, 2018

          Good comment, Gezza.
          If gang kaupapa held aroha (and love) as the highest aspiration, they would could do whatever they chose and wear what ever they wished.

        • sorethumb

           /  August 24, 2018

          I doubt that. Today we are told that Maori are welcoming to outsiders:

          Māori Role in Aotearoa/New Zealand
          Defined by tikanga (our laws)
          derive from a world view that we inherited from our ancestors
          rooted as much in the spiritual aspects of this world as the physical.
          based on underlying values which include
          Mana – authority, power, control, ownership, status, influence, dignity, respect all derived from the gods
          Tapu – sacredness, spiritual power or protective force
          Whanaungatanga – kinship, relationships through genealogical bonds
          Kaitiakitanga – inherited responsibilities to take care of all our natural resources including our lands, waters, seas and other taonga
          Rangatiratanga – chieftainship including sovereignty, rights of self-determination, self government, authority and power to make decisions and own and control resources.

          6. Our tikanga determines that :
          We are tangata whenua – we are the hosts for all who visit this country (and hence need to determine immigration policy)
          We have a duty of manaaki manuhiri – we are obliged to look after our guests and ensure they are well-treated and respected.
          And if they decide to stay then they need a good understanding of our tikanga so that we can all live here in harmony.
          We also need a good understanding of our guest’s tikanga so that we know how to look after them properly.
          Pākehā settlement and introduced legal system has not and can not change these fundamental values and principles but it has made it very difficult for us to carry out our responsibilities.

          • Gezza

             /  August 24, 2018

            Be an idiot with someone else please thumbsta.

            • sorethumb

               /  August 24, 2018

              What I mean is that Maori culture is tribal and exclusive but the PR face is:

              We have a duty of manaaki manuhiri – we are obliged to look after our guests and ensure they are well-treated and respected.
              And if they decide to stay then they need a good understanding of our tikanga so that we can all live here in harmony.

              and

              Kaitiakitanga – inherited responsibilities to take care of all our natural resources including our lands, waters, seas and other taonga

              thereby justifying why a Maori is a mandatory feature of your local council etc.

              Rangatiratanga – chieftainship including sovereignty, rights of self-determination, self government, authority and power to make decisions and own and control resources.

              That is instability staring you in the face.

        • Griff.

           /  August 24, 2018

          It is what it is not what some claim based on looking at Maori though a haze of white guilt.
          Blackpower and mongrel mob are predominantly Maori .
          Their cultures are a reflection of Maori culture .
          No amount of bullshite can change this.

          • Gezza

             /  August 24, 2018

            You can join the Mongrel Mob. So can I. Their culture is nothing like Maori culture. It is gang culture.
            … … …
            My responses to robert, yesterday:

            Tell us your thoughts about gangs; their raison d’être
            It no longer matters what were their different reasons for their origins – it was decades ago. The people who started them are now grandparents, still in the bloody gangs. Now they are simply breeding their own as well as recruiting more members. One of the reasons they now exist is to control one area and war with gangs who control other areas. Don’t you follow the news?

            their future, as you see it
            Their membership as I understand it is growing. Until Maori utterly reject them I see little prospect of that changing. Gang tikanga is not Maori tikanga. Gang kaupapa is not Maori kaupapa.

            their value or otherwise
            Otherwise. They are our Cosa Nostra. They prey on society and cynically & ruthlessly exploit both whanaungatanga & anti-pakeha sentiment to recruit impressionable, undeducated, unemployable drug addicted young people, get breeding stock, & secure ongoing support & excuses from the very people they recruit from.

            and any solution to “the gang problem” that you might have.
            The solution to the gang problem is for Maori to reject them.
            … … …

            As an aspie & a white cultural supremacist the subtleties are lost on you.

            • Griff.

               /  August 24, 2018

              yess resorts to ad hominems.

              Meantime out here in the real world gang culture permeates Maori culture .The two are entwined to such a degree they are inseparable for many .

              Once were warriors was based on the reality of their culture for many Maori. .

              The Girl in her former role worked at a decile one school with about 15 % Maori.
              Maori made up 50% of her case load.
              Mostly due to the drugs and bash Maori culture .
              We can not solve this for them
              Hiding behind mythical bullshit ideas of a culture that does not actually exist will not either .

            • Gezza

               /  August 24, 2018

              yess resorts to ad hominems.
              ROFL.
              ROFL, ROFL, ROFL – (finally gets up of the floor with sore tummy) – says the ad hom king . 😎

            • Gezza

               /  August 24, 2018

              *off the floor.

              Be an idiot with someone else Griff. I’m going out for some half-moons. Back later.

            • High Flying Duck

               /  August 24, 2018

              I’m generally no fan of Griff, but he has a point Gezza. While you or I could technically join a gang, it is Maori who actually are – other minorities not so much.
              Just because it doesn’t reflect some Maori kaupapa, does not mean the gang culture is not a violent and criminal evolution of aspects of Maori kaupapa.

            • Gezza

               /  August 24, 2018

              Yes it does. It is a violent and criminal evolution of a gang of unemployed unemployables. Maori should repudiate them and don’t. Therefore they have to accept that people like you and Griff and sorethumb & a growing number of other pakeha now see that as Maori culture. It’s mafia culture.

            • Griff.

               /  August 24, 2018

              Stick your head in the sand all you want.
              Maori culture and blackpower mongrel mob culture are often the same .
              Your cry of wacist when the truth is pointed out exposes your inability to come to terms with the reality of violence and dysfunction within Maori is of their own culture not something imposed from outside.
              Do you think Alan Duff is also a white supremacist? he has written extensively about the same thing from within a Maori perspective.
              Māori: The Crisis and the Challenge
              https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1384564.Maori

              White supremacist is you projecting your own racism on others as reading my actual comments about many minority groups over the years would clearly demonstrate.

              As to you attacking me because I have admitted to being an Aspie.
              I should not have to point out that discrimination such as yours makes it very hard for all of us on the spectrum to function in society.
              Your own issues with prejudice are clearly showing in such comments. .

            • Gezza

               /  August 24, 2018

              As to you attacking me because I have admitted to being an Aspie
              I am not attacking you for admitting you are an aspie. You didn’t “admit” it – you constantly boast about it.

              I should not have to point out that discrimination such as yours makes it very hard for all of us on the spectrum to function in society.
              I should not have to point out to you that generalising about all Maori being violent & dysfunctional in the way you do makes it very hard for them in the spectrum to function in society. It is so ridiculously hypocritical, given what you just said about your tribe, you ought to be experiencing acute embarrassment.

              Why aren’t you? Can you explain that?

              Your own issues with prejudice are clearly showing in such comments.
              I don’t think I have any.

            • Griff.

               /  August 24, 2018

              I am not attacking you for admitting you are an aspie. You didn’t “admit” it – you constantly boast about it.

              Yess when corky called me a neanderthal as an insult I pointed out modern research on the matter .

              Aspie is often spoken of as a disability
              it can be in normal society.
              I had to learn body language, the ability to understand most of what peploe say on social occasions, from reading books . Something normies do without even being aware of took me years of active effort to learn imperfectly.
              http://www.nonverbalgroup.com/2011/08/how-much-of-communication-is-really-nonverbal
              I can not be in room full of peploe without feeling anxious it makes social occasions even family gatherings difficult. To much stimulation I cant separate out individuals from the overwhelming noise.
              I have to fake eye contact by your rules when interacting face to face . Because simulating eye contact is something I need to do consciously I often come across to normies as strange or weird in person. I can not recognize faces or link names to faces .

              None of these things matter on line. As an adult Apsie is a deficit in normal face to face social interaction more than anything.

              Aspies are wired differently than nomies, some of this gives us advantages some of it makes social interaction difficult or makes us seem strange .
              https://www.wired.com/2001/12/aspergers/
              Why should I not empathize this ? Why should I hide the advantages we have?

              I dropped out of school at 15 because I was totally misunderstood bullied and discriminated against even though I was top of the year by a large margin in stem subjects .In 1970’s NZ no one could understand why I was so different.

              I came out on line after much thought in an effort to make Asperger more public and allow some understanding that we are among you. I was fully aware that doing so would result in some wankers using it against me.

              Attitudes such as yours continue discrimination that holds many Aspies back from achieving their potential. You would not have much science or art without aspies. Your world would not be the same without us .

            • Gezza

               /  August 24, 2018

              Good. Thank you. I understand all that.

              Now imagine you are a Maori in a mostly pakeha school or workplace & go through the same process.

            • Griff.

               /  August 24, 2018

              Jaguar Electrifies E-Type By Announcing Plan To Build Classic As EV

              The classic roadster loses its inline-six engine in favor of an electric motor and battery pack.

              Jaguar will put its E-Type Zero concept into production with deliveries beginning in the summer of 2020. The company’s Classic division will build them to order, including converting interested owner’s cars to the EV drivetrain. To celebrate the big announcement, Jag will have its latest concept for the zero-emissions model on display during Monterey Car Week.

              “We’ve been overwhelmed by the positive reaction to the Jaguar E-type Zero concept. Future-proofing the enjoyment of classic car ownership is a major stepping stone for Jaguar Classic,” Tim Hannig, Jaguar Land Rover Classic Director, said about the EV.

              The British automaker won’t yet release final technical specs or pricing for the E-Type Zero. At least on the concept, the roadster uses a 40-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack that allows for a range over 170 miles (274 kilometers).
              https://www.motor1.com/news/263376/jaguar-e-type-zero-production/

            • Griff.

               /  August 24, 2018

              Do fuck off with your reverse racism .
              Maori are not discriminated against in this country.
              Nationals number one and two are both Maori .
              We just spent six weeks with a Maori PM .
              Fully 20% of our mp’s self identify as Maori. More than the population at large.
              Discrimination?
              These facts are not even a topic of conversation.

            • Gezza

               /  August 24, 2018

              You would not have much science or art without aspies.
              Yes we would. I’m a musician and artist. I’m not an aspie. There are countless musicians and other artists & scientists who are not Aspies.

              Your world would not be the same without us.
              The world wouldn’t be the same without anybody you care to mention.

              Do fuck off with your reverse racism.
              Do fuck off with your shithouse temper & puerile name-calling.

              Maori are not discriminated against in this country.
              Some are. By one Aspie who lumps all of Maori culture into a tiny negative basket. And others who do the same.

              Nationals number one and two are both Maori.
              So they say. How come all Maori aren’t MPs, If they’re all the same? Come to think of it why aren’t they at home bashing their kids if they’re all like you say?

              We just spent six weeks with a Maori PM
              Correct.

              Fully 20% of our mp’s self identify as Maori. More than the population at large.
              Wouldn’t surprise me. Why aren’t they all in gangs? Or maybe they are?

              Discrimination? These facts are not even a topic of conversation.
              I’m not talking about discrimination – you are. So are some Maori. Both of you are just as bad.

            • High Flying Duck

               /  August 24, 2018

              Not sure anyone was lumping “all Maori” into anything Gezza – just pointing out strong connections and links.
              There are too many success stories and positives in amongst the trouble to say otherwise.
              But the Gang links to Maori are real and are part of the culture of what it means to be Maori for many.
              As Corky posted – “the scourge of collectivism”.
              There is strength and power in tribal or gang affiliations, but also an element of abdication of personal responsibility.
              When the group goes bad, it leads all the members with it.

            • Griff.

               /  August 24, 2018

              Indeed duck
              Gangs and gang affliction is probably the must destructive force in Maori life.
              Mate enrolled his child in Maori pre school.
              Doug withdrew his child after a couple of weeks as the little shits from gang culture family’s acted like thugs at the age of four.
              We can not change that part of Maori culture Maori must do it for themselves.
              Blaming whitey and something that happened two century’s ago is not going to fix the social dysfunction.
              Being Maori is not a hindrance to success in this county acting like a primitive antisocial thug is.

            • Gezza

               /  August 24, 2018

              Doug withdrew his child after a couple of weeks as the little shits from gang culture family’s acted like thugs at the age of four.
              Gang culture. That’s what we have to get rid of

              We can not change that part of Maori culture Maori must do it for themselves.
              Maori have to stop tolerating gang culture. They have to repudiate it. Not make excuses for it because their whanau are connected to it.

              Blaming whitey and something that happened two century’s ago is not going to fix the social dysfunction.
              I absolutely agree and that is what I have been saying for the last two days.

              Being Maori is not a hindrance to success in this county acting like a primitive antisocial thug is.
              Exactly.

  5. PDB

     /  August 24, 2018

    Ed King of Lynyrd Skynyrd has died – one band that got bad press for being some sort of ‘pro-white’ group from the South but if you know anything about them they were actually the complete opposite. King co-wrote ‘Sweet Home Alabama’ another song that has been wrongly interpreted.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-country/lynyrd-skynyrd-guitarist-ed-king-dead-at-68-714847/

    • Corky

       /  August 24, 2018

      This is my favorite song highlighting his guitar work. Although I knew little of him.
      I just like Sweet Home Alabama and Saturday Night Special…especially the latter.

  6. lurcher1948

     /  August 24, 2018

    WHITE bludging…scum
    https://t.co/FSWClBW7Rc

    • Corky.

       /  August 24, 2018

      Er, I don’t think she is a Whitey, Lurchy. Look at that nose?

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 24, 2018

        Pale red hair, blue eyes, white skin….no, she’s not a Pakeha.

  7. High Flying Duck

     /  August 24, 2018

    Quote of the Day:

    “Hell Hath No Fury Like A Woman … who has been given some advice from an innocent man just trying to be helpful.”

  8. Corky

     /  August 24, 2018

    To all Your New Zealand critics of Patrick Gower. Patrick is on a whole level above you. You wont have realised that until you read this link. The goods news is once you read his dribble you will find your summation of him was right all along. A great insight into the mind of a New Zealand journalist.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/08/patrick-gower-was-not-destroyed-by-lauren-southern-and-stefan-molyneux.html

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 24, 2018

      All ego and bombast.

    • Gezza

       /  August 24, 2018

      Nobody gave them a proper interview. Patrick was a waste of time.

      • Gezza

         /  August 24, 2018

        Actually – I will qualify that. The female Sunday reporter gave them a proper interview, but they made her look like an ill-prepared novice & so Sunday showed barely any of it. One had to watch the full interview afterwards when THEY posted it on YouTube.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 24, 2018

          I dislike Patrick Gower intensely, but what I saw of that ‘interview’ showed an overbearing, rude Molyneux holding the floor with a boring monologue and intoning’ ‘Let me finish’ every time PG tried to get a word in; he just talked over him. It wasn’t an interview, it was a monologue by an illmannered boor,

          Nobody could have done any better, Molyneux was too keen on the sound of his own voice to want to let anyone else speak.

  9. High Flying Duck

     /  August 24, 2018

    Bill Gates on changes to Capitalism. Interesting reading.

    “A bedrock of capitalism is the so-called law of supply and demand. It’s economics 101. But Bill Gates says it’s dead. Silicon Valley has killed it.

    In a blog post last week, the 62-year-old billionaire argued that the concept is quickly growing irrelevant to today’s economy.

    Why? Because the way a lot of the top companies make money is no longer tied to tangible stuff, and as a result the modes of production can look very different.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12112955

    • Mefrostate

       /  August 24, 2018

      The most valuable forms of capital have just moved from the material and financial to the natural and human.

      • PartisanZ

         /  August 24, 2018

        There may be a sort of ‘supra-economics’ but I reckon it’s still relatively small – the tip of the iceberg basking in the sun – and ultimately still reliant upon the mass consumption of ‘hardware’ … the mass transportation of ‘product’ … the mass creation of ‘market demand’ … the mass ‘devouring’ of goods and services …

        Those global “supply chains” … and the masses of workers manacled to them …

        Another thing that’s changed is you no longer set up a ‘Watties’ Jam bottling factory to compete with the ‘Craigs’ Jam bottling factory down the road, right?

        You set up a giant bottling factory capable of doing Jams, Marmalades, Pickles, Preserves, Meal-Flavor-Bases, Pasta Sauce and goodness knows what else … with a facility that wacks on the ‘Watties’, ‘Craigs’, ‘Pams’ or ‘Select’ label appropriate to that production-run … Yeah?

        There’s something almost ‘socialist’ about it …

        Certainly easier to socialize …?

    • Gezza

       /  August 24, 2018

      Why not?

      • High Flying Duck

         /  August 24, 2018

        I bet it’s because he’s Catholic.

      • Corky

         /  August 24, 2018

        He’s had the same cant for over 30 years. Same excuses; same bullshit. Watch his attitude on this clip. If you agree with him, fine. If not, shut up. He needs to stop trying to be a Maori.
        He is the type of support structure I have stated needs to be removed to get complete control of our crime problem.

        • Gezza

           /  August 24, 2018

          I agree with you. My bet is most of those gang leaders won’t even know what the Maori phrases he’s saying there actually even mean.

          This guy has been the double-talking PR frontman for our curse of gangs of antisocial criminal thugs & murderers for far too long.

          Good on Garner for taking him on. He can stick his bluster. I’m also sick of O’Reilly’s bullshit. These gangs have got to go.

  10. lurcher1948

     /  August 24, 2018

  11. Alan Wilkinson

     /  August 24, 2018

    Clare Curran gone from Cabinet after another appointment screw up.

  12. Blazer

     /  August 24, 2018

    Corky syndrome..