Radical, liberal and identitarian left “locked in an unproductive deadlock”

It’s common in political forums here to see accusations of (looney) ‘leftie’ or ‘rightie’ or RWNJ by people of different leanings. More often than not it is an exaggeration at best.

Here is an international view on left wing bickering.

Helen Pluckrose at Areo:  No, Liberal Lefties are Not Right-Wing

Left-wing liberals who are opposed to the identity politics developments on the left increasingly find ourselves accused of being right wing, referred to as “right wing” and scornfully urged to admit that we are right wing by identitarian lefties.

People in politics often seem to like applying labels to themselves, and also to people they disagree with. Calling someone the opposite (ish) of what they are is one of the ultimate political insults.


To understand this, it is probably necessary to have a quick look at divisions on the left right now. While all lefties support economic policies which seek to redistribute wealth, reduce inequalities and support the most socially disadvantaged in society, the largest and longest split is between the socialists who advocate social ownership of the means of production—thereby putting control in the hands of the workers—and the social democrats who seek to redistribute wealth within a regulated capitalist system within a liberal democracy.

These have loosely been understood as the “radical Left” and the “liberal Left” and this is also loosely connected to differing principles around social issues such as feminism (radical feminism vs liberal feminism).

More recently, we have seen a rise of the identitarian lefties who hold very different ideas about objective truth, evidence, reason and language and who view society as structured by discourse (ways of talking about things) which perpetuates systems of power and privilege.

As they often fit the definition of “radical” but have little in common with the older radical leftism and seldom address economics or class issues coherently, preferring to focus on identity groups like race, gender and sexuality, things have become much more messy, and communication and compromise much more difficult.


Liberalism is a broad concept which holds to certain values of freedom (both of markets and individuals), humanitarianism in the sense of assistance for those unable to support themselves and equal opportunity in relation to removing any barriers that prevent certain groups in society from accessing all the opportunities it offers. Liberals believe in social progress and that it can be achieved by refining all of the above.

The Identitarian Lefties

They are a product of an intellectual shift which occurred in the sixties when leftist intellectuals became disillusioned with Marxism and developed the concept of postmodernism. This mode of thought saw society as a system of hierarchical power structures and argued that knowledge was actually a construct of power perpetuated by speech (discourse) which served the interests of dominant groups in society. B

y the nineties, this had been incorporated into several fields of scholarship like feminism, postcolonialism, queer theory and critical race theory. It had also been made more explicitly political and actionable. Concepts like “intersectionality,” “toxic masculinity” and “white fragility” became a part of social justice activism.

Consequently, these left-wing academics and activists saw identity politics as politically empowering and were critical of liberal leftism which sought to make identity categories socially irrelevant.

They tended to see liberalism as part of an outdated and inadequate modernist system which was created by straight, white, rich, western men and therefore can be understood to support the interests of straight, white, rich, western men. They still do.

The New Conflict

We are now in a situation in which the three parts of the left—radical, liberal and identitarian—are locked in an unproductive deadlock.

The radicals oppose the identitarians whom they see as bourgeois elitists rooted in the academy who have completely abandoned the working class and the meaning of leftism. They remain at odds with the liberals for their lack of support for socialism.

The liberals oppose the identitarians whom they regard as profoundly illiberal and threatening to undo decades of progress towards individual freedom and equality of opportunity regardless of race, gender and sexuality. They find the radicals of little help in supporting liberalism.

The identitarians largely ignore the radicals except in the form of radical feminist rejection of trans identity which they condemn as transmisogynistic hatred but pay some confused lip-service to anti-capitalism (which does not mollify the radicals). They reserve most of their ire for the liberals who are addressing the same social and ethical issues that they are.

The Solution

The only way for the liberal left to fix this problem is to engage with it.

For too long, too many of us have minimized the problem due to a perceived need to maintain solidarity against the rise of the populist right, alt-right and far right.

Others have not addressed the problem, simply because they do not understand the counterintuitive ideological core of it and feel that anyone who seeks racial, gender and LGBT equality is an ally, even if some of them go too far in their zeal.

Others are afraid of being called racist, sexist or homophobic and associated with the right which is, in fact, what is happening. Some have become so alienated from the left due to being called racist, sexist or homophobic that they have genuinely gone right, feeling that there, at least, they will be welcome.

I find it funny how people seem to want to fit into one or other political box.

There is also that problem inherent to liberalism: an excess of tolerance, a willingness to compromise and a desire not to impose on other people. Because the liberal left is the least radical, least authoritarian branch of the left, it is vulnerable to being shouted over by more radical voices who come to define the left for waverers.

These louder voices undermine the left, however.

We need to get more visible, more unified and braver.

We need to accept that the problem exists, understand how it works and speak out against it calmly, civilly and reasonably at the risk of being called racist, sexist and homophobic—despite being the ones who reject the evaluation of individuals by their race, gender and sexuality.

We need to remember how to argue our case and not assume it is obvious.

The more of us who do this, the easier it will be for more to join. This is the way to win back the left, win back public confidence, win elections and bring about the policies we want to see made. We are not right wing. We are liberal lefties, we are the majority and we can fix this.

There is some interesting analysis in this article, but it finishes on an odd note – “we are the majority and we can fix this”.

Are they claiming that the left is the majority? Or the liberal left is the majority on the left?

I doubt that claiming to be a majority and claiming to be the ones to “fix an unproductive deadlock” is going to win a lot of favour from other political boxes that see themselves as the left.

Leave a comment


  1. NOEL

     /  26th August 2018

    Aw dunno. I like how users of labels give you an indication of their bias during the rest of the conversation.

  2. chrism56

     /  26th August 2018

    Others have noted the problem
    “It has been growing these past decades. It is a way of conducting politics, predicated on the belief that American life is not divided by moral difference or policy divergence — not really — but by the failure of half the country to know what’s good for them.”

  3. unitedtribes2

     /  26th August 2018

    Perhaps they should just admit it and split into 20 different parties

  4. Patzcuaro

     /  26th August 2018

    I had to Google “RWNJ”, it was not an acronym I was familiar with, it is the antonym to “SJW”.

    • sorethumb

       /  26th August 2018

        • sorethumb

           /  26th August 2018

          His latest book has sold over 2 million copies (which is about 51? miles of bookcase). On the other hand the left has it’s knickers in a twist.

        • david in aus

           /  26th August 2018

          Smears, the Left must be really afraid. People should search Jordan Peterson’s articulate views on Youtube and think for themselves. What a revelation this guy is!
          The great thing about the new media is that we can bypass these gatekeepers. “Fake news” has legs because there is an element of truth. MSM is filled with agenda driven drivel.
          Free speech allows the intelligent reader, the majority are not stupid, to separate the wheat from the chaff. Be wary of anyone trying to ‘regulate’ it or prescribing which ideas are acceptable.

      • sorethumb

         /  26th August 2018

        Some people here will be scratching their heads thinking “what’s sorethumb on about? She seems quite normal to me?”

        • Gezza

           /  26th August 2018

          I can’t think of anyone who posts here regularly who would think that.

  5. sorethumb

     /  26th August 2018

    If National /NZ First want to create a stir they should start poking around in the Universities and ask questions about the value and appropriateness of faculty “for the public good”. If one lots stabs the other in the back then the victors run the show because they create a language and discourse only they can follow and conservative leaning politicians shy off because it isn’t worth the effort..

  6. PartisanZ

     /  26th August 2018

    Choose your poison …

  7. david in aus

     /  26th August 2018

    Do you have to join a faction? How about thinking for yourself and standing up for the principles you believe in.

    What unites the left is the feeling that they are morally superior and are more virtuous, despite the contradictory evidence. This leads to the conformity of action, if not thinking. They are afraid if they speak out, in case they will be denounced and left out of the “virtuous” social circle.
    There is a hold of the mind, the self-censorship that paralysis independent thought.

    Why this attempt to differentiate from identity politics, now? I have noticed this recently, even with Martyn Bradbury, who decried the “woke left”- whatever that means.

    I wonder if the tide is turning on the left. We can see the bare derriere of these tinpot emperors and empresses. Their tyrannical tendencies are becoming harder and harder to hide: from the banning of free-speech to concerted attacks on those ideas they oppose. These neo-Brown Shirts are provoking a counter-reaction.

    Jordan Peterson’s ability to articulate all the shortcoming of the left-wing is perhaps making an impact.

    • High Flying Duck

       /  27th August 2018

      The problem is you end up with paradoxes that cannot be resolved.
      Martyn Bradbury was caught up in a major twitter spat because a lesbian was saying trans rights trample on women’s rights. There is no “woke” solution to this issue.
      It is similar thinking that leads to support by liberals of Muslims who live in a culture that would happily stone gays and oppress women.
      It is all becoming very Life of Brian.

  8. Alan Wilkinson

     /  27th August 2018

    And people complain when I call all this madness loony. How loony is that?

  9. seer

     /  27th August 2018

    Has this been posted at yournz before? It’s over 2 years old (but I only saw it a couple of days ago).

    • PartisanZ

       /  28th August 2018

      Great mockery there seer … Really awesome mockery … Thanks so much for posting the wunderfrien mockery … That straight dude must feel really good about dishing out that mockery … Well done him … eh?


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