Open Forum – Monday

27 August 2018

Forum

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38 Comments

  1. chrism56

     /  August 27, 2018

    Following on from the main post yesterday, people are realizing that namecalling your opponents is counterproductive as it alienates the undecided and doesn’t sway the target. Like the habit of the left calling everyone against them a fascist or racist. Nowhere was this more evident in the UK than Brexit, though the US with anti-Trump isn’t far behind.
    https://unherd.com/2018/03/britain-not-run-fascists-racists-bigots-many-enlightened-liberals-hate-debate/?=refinnar
    “That’s the script. But here’s the rub: unsurprisingly, people don’t like being branded as these things. And if you’re one of those doing the branding, you’re unlikely to win hearts and minds. On the contrary, this kind of abuse does nothing to foster unity or build a common good in communities which are already alienated and atomised – the kind of communities which voted Leave in such huge numbers because they were sick and tired of being held in contempt by a tin-eared establishment that did so little to gainsay the pernicious notion that their attitudes were in some way repugnant.
    The unintended coalition, spawned by Brexit, that now exists between these working-class communities, once the bedrock of Labour support, and the Tory shires will not easily be put asunder. And the deepening estrangement between these millions and the rest of the country – including the army of well-heeled, hectoring liberals and their allies among the political class – will not be overcome without an end to the deployment of extreme and hysterical language which has the sole purpose of suffocating debate and snuffing out unfashionable opinions.”

    • Blazer

       /  August 27, 2018

      ‘Like the habit of the right calling everyone against them a commie or a racist. ‘

      • High Flying Duck

         /  August 27, 2018

        The “racist” cant is a trope of the identity politics of the left. The right don’t tend to use it.

        • lurcher1948

           /  August 27, 2018

          LOL,”the right don’t tend to use it”

          • High Flying Duck

             /  August 27, 2018

            The racist call is made by leftists who want to stifle arguments.
            That’s why Southern, Moyneux, Brash, Hooten etc are all called “racists” ad nauseum.
            Feel free to correct me with the litany of poor dissaffected leftists who have been tarred with the racist brush by the right?

            • Blazer

               /  August 27, 2018

              heres a starter for you…the right’s faux outrage at …’chinese sounding surnames’ and their accusations of…racist.

  2. Corky

     /  August 27, 2018

    Oh, dear. I did warn President Trumpy yesterday. He should read this blog to receive my sage advice. Little things like this can ultimately have devastating consequences downstream. This is something his core supporters may take notice of.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12114063

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  August 27, 2018

      Corky will be tying himself in knots over this one; the man is obviously not a Muslim and is obviously a person who should not have a gun.

      • Corky

         /  August 27, 2018

        No, I won’t be tying myself in knots. But you are, trying to create something out of nothing.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  August 27, 2018

          Not at all. You have been singing the praises of gun owning and your Islamaphobia is no secret. I wondered how you would justify the right to own a gun in cases like this. The shooter is a woman-hating gun-owner, a killing spree looking for somewhere to happen. Had this man been Muslim. we would never have heard the end of it.

          • Corky

             /  August 27, 2018

            ”You have been singing the praises of gun owning and your Islamophobia is no secret. ”

            No, I have been supporting the right to bear arms for defence. There’s little to sing about regarding guns.

            I don’t suffer from Islamophobia. A phobia is an irrational fear. My problems with Islam are based on facts. I have posted enough for you to understand that. Muslims telling you in their own words how it is and will be. It’s people like you have the problem..not me.

            Had this man been Muslim. we would never have heard the end of it.

            Probably. Because no Muslims should be in any Western country given the incompatibility of their religion with Western values. The shooter in this case is Western. Born in the West. We have no choice. He’s ours.

            Now, for people who have a problem processing reality, this smug Muslim women spells it out for you. At 0.36.

            However, some people do ‘get it.” I don’t agree with ripping up the Koran though. That was unnecessary.

            • Corky

               /  August 27, 2018

              ps- Ripping up the Koran is also dangerous. It could cost you and your family their lives.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 27, 2018

              One person is far too small a sample to prove anything, so I won’t bother,.

              There is no such thing as Western Values; the West is a large place, full of individuals. The US leads the world, as far as I know, in

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  August 27, 2018

              mass murders, but I don’t think that it’s a Western ‘value’. Domestic violence, drugs, alcohol and child abuse are rife in the West; are these Western values ?

              You must know that ‘phobia’ (as in homophobia) has expanded its meaning to include irrational hatred of a group when it is attached to the name of the group.

              I fear that you are (to put it politely) not very discerning when it comes to what you call facts, as was shown in your claims about the pubs, claims easily disproved.

            • Corky

               /  August 27, 2018

              I gave you a good reply. You answer with the absurdity of one person proves nothing. When you know that isn’t true. Millions stand behind that one person..in thought and deed.

              Then you carry on with the patronising ” I wont bother.” So much for a decent reply.

              ”There is no such thing as Western Values”

              Yeah, there is. Democracy, the ideals ( repeat ideals) of equality of the sexes. The protection of minors ( until recently in Britain). The separation of Church and State.

              However, I was wrong about one thing. More people are getting it.

              https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/08/grandmother-in-a-wristlock/

    • Corky

       /  August 27, 2018

      You must remember, Lurchy…President Trumpy isn’t a patriot..isn’t a politician..he’s a
      wealthy businessman. That’s why he has no perception of the national importance of John McCains passing. That’s ultimately what makes him so good, and ultimately what will lead to his demise.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  August 27, 2018

        Trump has spent 25% of his time as president playing golf.

  3. sorethumb

     /  August 27, 2018
    • sorethumb

       /  August 27, 2018

      The distinctive feature of the New Zealand economy is that land is an important input into the productive process. This is obvious with the agricultural,fishing and forestry sectors but it also applies to international tourism. In a simple model of the New Zealand economy where the supply of land is fixed, and New Zealand’s isolation means it is not a ‘natural’ location for the production of a broad range of internationally traded goods and services, then an increase in the labour supply through large scale immigration will reduce the
      marginal product of labour. As a result:

      Real wages will fall

      Owners of land will benefit

      There will be an outflow of ‘native’ labour in search of higher wages in Australia

      The economy will be bigger, but average incomes will fall

      Resources will flow into low value service production.

      This conventional model of the impact of an increase in labour supply is obviously a simplification of a complex reality, but we think that the fixed factor effect is important enough to be considered in any discussion or analysis of the impact of immigration in New Zealand. The official analysis, however, almost entirely omits it. There is a tendency to follow the international literature, where omitting the impact of fixed factors of production is a simplification that doesn’t matter very much, without thinking at all about how New Zealand could be different.
      http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documents/TheSuperdiversityMyth.pdf

      • sorethumb

         /  August 27, 2018

        Obviosly wrong – all the evidence points in the other direction? [on Mars]

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  August 27, 2018

      That’s good because Labour decided to exempt big projects from its foreign owners ban, B.

  4. sorethumb

     /  August 27, 2018

    The National Party/NZ First need to hold academics to account for what they spout in the nation’s madrasas.

    eco maori 5
    26 August 2018 at 9:51 am
    Good morning The hui Mihi these people who denie racism in Aotearoa don’t want to face reality because they sit at the top of there ladders of life that this system has dished up for them as well as being national supporter’s .
    Locking OUR young men up in vast number’s has a few side effects like diluting the tangata whenua culture ie OUR wahine end up in relationship ships with non Maori
    also with the stigerma and the hype around anything bad about Maori is haled throught a microphone this putt’s our Maori wahine off maori men there are a lot of good maori men it’s just that we are carrying around the tar and feathers that this system has plastered on Maori Eco Maori see this every day Ka kite ano
    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-25-08-2018/

  5. phantom snowflake

     /  August 27, 2018

    This is a bit of fun: The Jordan Peterson Word Salad Generator
    – “Everything shapes existential presupposition”
    – “The mythological complements positive chaos”
    – “Perceptual reality experiences deep success, roughly speaking”
    http://www.wisdomofpeterson.com/

  6. lurcher1948

     /  August 27, 2018

    FREE SPEECH is like engines…interesting

  7. lurcher1948

     /  August 27, 2018

    YOUR heroes America, what a stressful hole to live in
    You go to school- you’re shot and killed
    You go to church- you’re shot and killed
    You go to a concert- you’re shot and killed
    You go to the movies- you’re shot and killed
    You go to a video game tournament- you’re shot and killed

    When is enough enough? i will tell you when
    When the right evolve
    love FREE SPEECH

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  August 27, 2018

      You forgot restaurants, synagogues, camp grounds, roads and universities.

    • Corky

       /  August 27, 2018

      And forests.

  8. lurcher1948

     /  August 27, 2018

    I’m listening to Andrew Dickins, and hes ranting FIX THE ROADS UP NORTH, LABOR well Andrew they would have been fixed if Sir Key got of his RICH ARSE and done something but NZME ZB is NATIONALS English/Sir Key/Bridges fan base and WHO is the tempory leader of the opposition Simon Bridges SHRILL
    if i was labor i would nudge NZME and check their business model TAX wise, they sound facist

  9. lurcher1948

     /  August 27, 2018

    I laugh,the new NZME shrill replacing larry williams tonight says be cautious labor over rental rules,as airbnb might take over,who will throw out tenants, well airbnb might go the same way the national party went,DOWN THE GURGLAR, the right are SO thick.

  10. lurcher1948

     /  August 27, 2018

    I wish labor would audit NZME, they are rabid feral ALT Rightwingers, even Farrar seems to be in their team as expected as an ALT RIGHT host…do a tax audit labor

  11. lurcher1948

     /  August 27, 2018

    MIKE YARDLEY the sharpest knife in the draw along with a lonely spoon, and does sound slightly THICK, labor check their tax standards…could be rorting TAX PAYERS

  12. Gezza

     /  August 27, 2018

    Lurch is in good form today.

    • Corky

       /  August 27, 2018

      Four in a row. Two more and he would have had a full magazine.