Creeping Aotearoa (whakamokamoka Aotearoa?)

Our country is increasingly being referred to as Aotearoa, and particularly as ‘Aotearoa New Zealand’.

Political parties, unions, public organisations use the term.

‘Aotearoa New Zealand’ is also popular for company names. Searching the companies register shows 85 match ″aotearoa new zealand″.

It appears that our country is gradually being renamed. Some of this is happening by popular adoption, but there also appears to be deliberate intent to rename our country by stealth.

I like the name Aotearoa. It is the Maori preference, and has become uniquely ours.

I don’t have any empathy with ‘New Zealand’ as a name. The ‘new’ makes it sound like a colonial takeover. ‘There is little or no connection between here and ‘Zealand’, an island in Denmark.

If we had a choice I would likely vote for a name change to Aotearoa.

But I object to it being effectively adopted by stealth.

We should be having a proper open discussion about the name and identity of our country, we should have a binding referendum on whether the name should be changed officially.

I have concerns about how that process would go. The flag debate was corrupted by partisan political interests, and showed how immature we can be when debating important issues. It also showed how disruptive some people can get when they don’t get what they want.

So if we debate a country official name change there is a risk of it becoming an ugly shit fight.

But I think we should follow proper democratic processes and public discussion on this, rather than let a creeping name change happen by stealth.

It is likely that some will claim, as happened in the flag debate, that a name change couldn’t or shouldn’t happen without a comprehensive change to how our country is run, whether we become a republic, whether we adopt a constitution, and to what degree and how the Treaty of Waitangi becomes embedded as not just a founding document but also as am ongoing dictate of how we do things.

But doing all of this together would be to much to deal with at one time. And it looks a long way off, there is not drive to do all this, especially while a queen on the other side of the world remains on her throne.

I think we should be up front in discussing the name of our country, and this can easily be done as a separate decision. It should be done as a separate decision, avoiding complications of other issues. It shouldn’t have to be an ‘all or nothing’ thing with the flag and constitution and republic decisions.

I’m quite happy with ‘Aotearoa’, but I want an open and honest debate rather than creeping change by stealth.

Leave a comment

103 Comments

  1. Just as a linguistic exercise at this stage at least 🙂 – how does Your NZ translate into Māori?

    To Aotearoa?
    Taotearoa? TAotearoa?
    Tā koutou Aotearoa?

    Reply
  2. Gerrit

     /  September 10, 2018

    Zeeland is a province of Holland. Able Tasman named this country Nieuwe Zeeland. The was anglosise to New Zealand by Cook.

    Reply
    • I’m aware of that connection, but it has virtually no recognisable connection with us apart from being a name plucked out of the air centuries ago.

      Reply
      • Gerrit

         /  September 10, 2018

        I was wrong. Able Tasman named the new found land “Staten Landt” thinking it was part of South America.

        In 1645, Dutch cartographers renamed the land Nova Zeelandia after the Dutch province of Zeeland.

        There is absolutely no connection with the Danish province Zealand.

        Reply
  3. Blazer

     /  September 10, 2018

    hardly by stealth…just incremental adoption by people.Keep it simple.
    Winston won’t like it.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  September 10, 2018

      Nah, it’s by stealth. The New Zealand Geographic Board has renaming down to a fine art.

      Reply
  4. David

     /  September 10, 2018

    Not a fan of the word myself, love listening to Maori being spoken properly its quite a beautiful language and I support it being part of the curriculum up to high school but Aotearoa just doesnt sound nice or easily role off the tongue.

    Reply
  5. artcroft

     /  September 10, 2018

    The name will never change as its a huge brand now. The only time brand names like that get changed is if you got a scandal to hide… mind you with this govt …maybe…

    Reply
  6. Patzcuaro

     /  September 10, 2018

    Tika he mahi

    Reply
  7. Westie Bob

     /  September 10, 2018

    Aotearoa I could live with but not being called a Aotearoian.

    Reply
  8. Reply
    • Corky

       /  September 10, 2018

      He fought the good fight. Was an excellent mayor for Wanganui, and suggested to Maori they put more effort into their people rather than expending energy on getting the h back into Wanganui. Like all rednecks, he was shown he doesn’t belong in the new Aotearoa…land of the long brown crime wave.

      Reply
  9. NOEL

     /  September 10, 2018

    Instead of trying to explain overseas where NZ is with Aotearoa one can simply say “its a jewel in the Pacific”

    Reply
  10. NOEL

     /  September 10, 2018

    Westie when you say Kia Ora overseas you are instantly labeled a Kiwi.
    “Kia Ora I’m from Aotearoa”
    “Oh Kiwi.”

    Reply
  11. robertguyton

     /  September 10, 2018

    On Saturday, just as we were about to plant an orchard of apple trees on the grassy slope in front of the local museum, a representative of the Kaitangata community that came to help with the planting, asked me to do a blessing in te reo tuturu and fortunately, I was able to do so. It’s a useful skill.

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  September 10, 2018

      That is not a skill; that is just politics. If it is a skill what does it achieve?

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  September 10, 2018

        Speaking Maori is not a skill? Hmmmm…
        It is a skill (takes practice, has to be learned etc.) – what does it achieve? Well, employment, for a start; I was paid to be Head of Maori at Aparima College, teaching other how to korero me tuhituhi i the reo tuturu. What else? Being able to speak at least some Maori helped me into a second job with our local rununga (Oraka/Aparima – Kai Tahu iwi) managing a restoration programme on 1000 acres of ex-farmland. Having some ability to speak has also given credibility to various groups I headed whenever we needed to meet with iwi, on Mara and elsewhere; it fosters confidence and trust when we are able to show that we respect the language and custom of others. I suppose the same thing would be said of any culture; greeting a foreign business partner in their own language is a useful skill that helps seal deals, I imagine. There’s more, but I’m guessing your at full-fume now.

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  September 10, 2018

          Marae – mara is a garden and it’s useful there too 🙂

          Reply
        • PDB

           /  September 10, 2018

          “Being able to speak at least some Maori helped me into a second job with our local rununga (Oraka/Aparima – Kai Tahu iwi) managing a restoration programme on 1000 acres of ex-farmland. ”

          I thought a spade would have been more useful Robert.

          Reply
  12. sorethumb

     /  September 10, 2018

    I spotted this process right from the very beginning and look how RNZ sopped saying “Radio New Zealand”. The big weakness in our politics is that the National Party sees the progressives as useful fools. Our construction sector has grown enormously due to immigration so they wont support the national identity over personal wealth.

    Cracks me up how people get so riled up about immigrants. Especially them chinese.
    Dime loves em – i like their food, i like their reasonably priced blow jobs, i like that they only seem to commit crimes against each other, i like that they have made me a fortune in property, i like that they built me a kick ass house.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/05/editorials_on_immigration.html

    Reply
  13. PartisanZ

     /  September 10, 2018

    I doubt if we’ll drop “New Zealand” …

    I reckon it will officially become Aotearoa New Zealand.

    Place-names will have their indigenous titles restored too, like Tairawhiti Gisborne has, just in time for our “commemoration” next year of 250 years since Captain Cook’s arrival …

    http://tairawhitigisborne.co.nz/visit/culture-and-historic/tours-and-experiences/

    “It was at this juncture that the first of several unfortunate slayings took place …”

    http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-MacHist-t1-body-d3.html

    Turanganui-a-kiwa shall be restored as the original name for Poverty Bay …

    “The name may have been different if Captain Cook had spoken to iwi who were on the beach to greet him instead of shooting them.”

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/350042/overwhelming-response-to-poverty-bay-re-naming-proposal

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  September 10, 2018

      I think there are a couple of problems with renaming, not the least of which sometimes i
      will be confusion where several place have the same or similar Maori names, or where it relates to a rohe but not to particular towns or cities or villages built by Pakeha. Wellington city has begun to call itself Poneke for example. But Poneke wasn’t & isn’t Wellington City.

      There are lots of Maori place names preserved in Taranaki, where I came from, but New Plymouth is not Ngamotu, strictly speaking. That is the Port area, which is still Ngamotu. And the suburb I grew up in is not Rewarewa, although I spent much time in my youth at the mouth of my awa, Waiwakaiho, which is where Rewarewa pa was. A minor temporary settlement.

      I am happy to call my maunga Taranaki. It should never have been renamed Mt Egmont. It already had a name, but the generation who called it that is dying out now. Volcanologists the world over still insist on calling it Mt Taranaki, but The Egmont Volcano. I hope that will change too.

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  September 10, 2018

        “But Poneke wasn’t & isn’t Wellington City.”
        Not a lot of pre-European settlement cities on these moturau, Gezza.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  September 10, 2018

          Te Aka Maori Dictionary gives me no matches for moturau.
          Ngata Dictionary gives me 0 results.
          Google translate gives me ‘moved’.
          Google translate also gives me Motu – Island; Rau – hundred, leaf, enclose.

          What English word are you trying to elegantly convey in Maori here?
          What is the point of the rest of your sentence?

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  September 10, 2018

          Are you going to reply soon robert because your reply is nonsense as it stands. I can’t make any sense out of it. The person who fails to communicate what they mean to someone is the idiot – not the confused receiver.

          Reply
  14. Gezza

     /  September 10, 2018

    I don’t like either

    Aotearoa (which wasn’t used by all Maori iwi, will be forever mispronounced by non-Latin or non-Polynesian language speakers, is 4 syllables long when pronounced correctly and 6 syllables when pronounced incorrectly) or

    New Zealand – which is only 3 syllables, & is a mis-spelling of Zeeland, a Dutch province that has nothing to do with us.

    If it ever came down to a choice I’d vote against renaming New Zealand to Aotearoa, for the reasons stated above. I loathe this awkward business of using both names. It’s too much of a mouthful.

    Even if I’m in a minority of one, I hope when the time comes we’ll blend some Maori & some English & come up with a new name to reflect the Treaty created a new nation speaking English & Maori & the languages can blend too. Kiwiland works fine for me.

    Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  September 10, 2018

      Why do you favour “kiwi” as a word, a bird, an image or … anything really?

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  September 10, 2018

        https://yournz.org/2018/09/10/creeping-aotearoa-whakamokamoka-aotearoa/#comment-306880

        Plus, it’s a Maori word, and it’s a bird, and land is the English for land.

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  September 10, 2018

          It’s onomatopoeic, mimicking the screech of the dumpy flightless worm-eating bird with the over-sized beak and lousy eyesight. No gracefully soaring karearea for us; we’ve chosen a leaden-footed litter-snuffling lump of a bird that can’t get off the ground to save itself. It is a Maori word, as you note, but so is tūtae.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  September 10, 2018

            Nope. I’ve chosen the name by which New Zealanders have been known for decades wherever they are in the world, whether they’re Maori or Pakeha. The symbol of our defence forces as well. I’m an English speaking Pakeha. I’m not Maori. I was born in New Zealand. Not Aoteaora.

            We can’t use a Moa or the Haast Eagle, can we?

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              Kiwi will be extinct soon.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 10, 2018

              They would be if left to DoC management, Robert. However they are thriving where private property exists.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              “However they are thriving where private property exists.”
              99.999% of private property in NZ has…NO kiwi, Alan.

            • Gezza

               /  September 10, 2018

              Kiwi will be extinct soon.
              Don’t be a plonker robert. Even if they were they’d live on in the name for people from New Zealand. Unlike the Moa.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              ” Even if they were they’d live on in the name for people from New Zealand. Unlike the Moa.”
              Anika Moa, for example?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 10, 2018

              99.999% of private property in NZ has…NO kiwi

              Not up here, Robert. Kiwi are thriving on the populated east coast and dying out in the huge DoC forest reserves on the west coast.

            • Gezza

               /  September 10, 2018

              Oh. You think elsewhere in the world people from New Zealand are called Moas? News to me.

              Or are you saying Anika is an extinct lage flightless bird?

              Or are you just being a bloody tosser now?

  15. Zedd

     /  September 10, 2018

    I hear, the main reason sports teams adopt Aotearoa/NZ is to put us ahead of Australia in the alphabetic lists !? 😀

    btw; I believe that Australia was originally called ‘New Holland’ ? but it was not very popular.. sounds like, after 160+ years, more kiwis are finally thinking the same way

    3 things are fairly certain in life: Taxes, death & CHANGE

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  September 10, 2018

      I also understand that when Pakeha first arrived, this land did not have ‘a country name’ it was just identified as Iwi rohe (tribal areas). ‘Aotearoa’ was a made-up word, to fit the narrative ?? :/

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  September 10, 2018

        If it is true that ‘Aotearoa’ translates as ‘Land of the long white cloud’ then someone got it wrong; because ‘AO’ means ‘world’.. whenua means land ?! :/

        Reply
      • Griff.

         /  September 10, 2018

        Some claim that Aotearoa was used for the north island by some tribes.
        It is as antithetic as the word Maori .
        Pre about 1800 there was no such thing as Maori there was a large number of competing tribes .
        The nasty settlers made up and used both words that you claim as Maori.

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  September 10, 2018

          Well I never … the two cultures have interacted and influenced each other …

          Many of the nasty settlers have adopted Maori words like ‘Pakeha’ as well, including on official government documents … tau iwi or non-Maori can actually identify as Pakeha or New Zealand European …

          It’s dreadful the interaction that’s gone on … even intermingling …

          Regarding many things Maori it appears not to matter one iota to some Pakeha that words and cultural expressions are in common use today … only that they weren’t or might not have been in common usage around 1800 …

          Well, muskets weren’t in common use by Maori around 1800 either …

          The idea that Pakeha culture can change, adapt and modernize to its heart’s content while Maori culture cannot and must remain stuck at ‘first contact’ or pre-1840 is the most patently absurd aspect of the race relations conversation in Aotearoa New Zealand today …

          Reply
  16. Alan Wilkinson

     /  September 10, 2018

    Sounds like an exercise in virtue signalling and annoying people to me.

    Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  September 10, 2018

      Alan – do you reckon the use of the word “tui” for what the non-Maori settlers to NZ quite justifyably called the parson bird, is “virtue signalling and annoying”?

      Reply
      • Griff.

         /  September 10, 2018

        Virture
        Origin
        Middle English: from Old French vertu, from Latin virtus ‘valour, merit, moral perfection’, from vir ‘man’.

        signal
        Origin
        Late Middle English: from Old French, from medieval Latin signale, neuter of late Latin signalis, from Latin signum

        Anoy
        Origin
        Middle English (in the sense ‘be hateful to’): from Old French anoier (verb), anoi (noun), based on Latin in odio in the phrase mihi in odio est ‘it is hateful to me’.

        Tui
        origin
        Maori
        1. (verb) (-a) to sew, thread on a string, thread.
        English name for bird Prosthemadera novae-zealandiae (Latin) or Koko (Maori).

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  September 10, 2018

          You mean kōkō, Griff.
          1. (noun) tūī, parson bird, Prosthemadera novaeseelandiae – a songbird that imitates other birds’ calls and has glossy-black plumage and two white tufts at the throat.
          This link will help you pronounce the word as it is said by nga kaikorero tuturu. Not cocoa, as in the late-night get-to-sleep drink, but more caw-caw, like a crow 🙂

          http://maoridictionary.co.nz/search?&keywords=koko

          Reply
          • Griff.

             /  September 10, 2018

            Your link will be ignored Robert .
            I speak English not Maori and have no intention to succumbing to the fringe who want us all to blabber in an rather limited Polynesian dialect that less than 5% and declining of the population can speak fluently.
            Tui is part of English now.The entire English language is made up of co-opt words from other languages. I am quite happy for more Maori words to become part of New Zealand English .I dont think enforcing the Maori language is going to make any difference to its down wards trajectory towards obsolescence.
            What it will do is divert much money and effort way from educating our youth to be functioning members of society.

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              Good man, Griff, no blabbering for you! How on earth did “blabber” become one of our official languages??? I’m incensed!!! .
              Did you know that “hoa” means “friend, in blabber-speak, and that “riri” means “angry” and further, “hoariri” means “enemy” or …”angry friend”?
              Whaddayareckonaboutthat?

            • Griff.

               /  September 10, 2018

              blabber
              ˈblabə/
              informal
              verb
              verb: blabber; 3rd person present: blabbers; past tense: blabbered; past participle: blabbered; gerund or present participle: blabbering

              1.
              talk foolishly, indiscreetly, or excessively.
              “she blabbered on and on”

              noun
              noun: blabber; plural noun: blabbers

              1.
              a person who blabbers.
              “the blabber wastes his own time, and the listener’s time”

              QED….

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  September 10, 2018

        No, Robert. As I said elsewhere I am happy that Maori is useful when it adds meaning and richness to our vocabulary. Tui is one of very many words in that category.

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  September 10, 2018

          Matter of (your) opinion, Alan. Do you think “mara” adds meaning and richness to our vocabulary? I do and use it often. How about whakatau? Ahi – have your seen the new fire engine livery, Alan? Better learn what “ahi” means, quick smart! He wahi au ahi kore – can you read the signs that say, “No Smoking” (a smoke-free place”). It’s everywhere, Alan, like the rising tide; you better get smart about the reo Maori or you’ll end up sounding…redundant! There are a multitude of words Maori that add to the richness of thought, if you know what the mean. Ignorance of those words is…ignorance of those words.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  September 10, 2018

            “No Smoking” (a smoke-free place”)”

            That sign’s all around the entrance to Wellington hospital. Pretty sure it’s in Maori too. I was there getting an annual ultra-sound this morning. Massive full-length signs. On every perspex panel blocking the wind from the 3 bench seats. And facing the seats too.

            You can’t miss them. Not just from their sheer size, but because you can often hardly breathe for the clouds of smoke emanating from the area. And the smokers there are always Maori. ALL others go down the steps onto the street outside the hospital. Why the hell do these Maori do that?

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              Io knows.

            • Gezza

               /  September 10, 2018

              Well tell him to bloody go there & tell em kaua e pena!

              Would you like to hazard a guess why they do that? Or would that be too risky for your sensibilities?

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              You are asking me if I know why some people with Maori forebears smoke tobacco nearby to signs that say, “Auahi kore”?
              How would I know??

            • Gezza

               /  September 10, 2018

              Sorry. I’d got the impression you know everything.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              Certainly I like to convey that impression, Gezza, but surely you must realise there are things I’m not entirely sure of !

            • Gezza

               /  September 10, 2018

              I wasn’t entirely sure …

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              You and I are so alike…

            • Gezza

               /  September 10, 2018

              I don’t have a beard & at the moment I’ll wager my hair is longer than yours, & I’m possibly not quite as sanctimonious as you as I’m not an extreme Green Feminist Lefty, but other than that, yes, peas in a pod, undoubtedly.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  September 10, 2018

            Absolutely it is a matter of opinion, Robert. That is how language has evolved, by consensus on what is useful and what is not, not by compulsion.

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              Do you really believe that you are not under compulsion to speak/write in English here in lil’ ol’ NZ, Alan?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 10, 2018

              Absolutely, Robert. That is the beauty of capitalism. It allows you to do whatever works. That is why my friends are free to speak German or French to each other when they wish and English to me. And why I learned English without requiring any law to force me to do so.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              So…Alan, you could refuse to use English (or Maori) when signing contracts, applications for credit, drivers licences etc…and have no troubles at all?
              Wowsers!
              You are compelled to communicate in English in a significant number of instances throughout your life, Alan…or not? Like to hear your views.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              When you fill out your Census form, Alan, do you just…scribble?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 10, 2018

              I use English to talk to bureaucrats, Robert, just as I use HTML to talk to computers. As I said, whatever works.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              You are compelled to use English, Alan: yes?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 10, 2018

              Actually no. I didn’t fill out any census forms this year, my wife did our household. If I wanted to I could write contracts in any language. I can sign contracts in English without writing anything but my name and date. Whatever works.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              Do you date your signing in any form other than English? Swahili maybe? Reckon you’d get away with it? You are compelled to use English, Alan. Your efforts to avoid admitting such are…amusing/feeble.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              “I didn’t!!! (My wife did it for me) – oh dear!

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 10, 2018

              Are you claiming numeric dates are English, Robert? Compulsion is for socialists and bureaucrats. I attempt to avoid both.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 10, 2018

              I probably should have pointed out again that I regard the census as an unmitigated waste of time and money – yet another vanity project for bureaucrats and academics.

  17. Gezza

     /  September 10, 2018

    @robert

    I took the shuttle from Kenepuru Hospital to Welly Hospital this morning & I had time to kill before my ultrasound appointment, so I spent some time reading the muralled history of the Hospital since the very first small two-story brick one was established in Thorndon. It had to be moved when the 1840 Marlborough Earthquake that killed 3 people in Wellngton & flattened a lot of buildings damaged it & made it unsafe.

    A temporary single storey wooden replacement was erected until the first proper purpose-built Hospital complex was established in Newtown on land gifted by some wealthy benefactor, whose name I don’t recall, which has been the site ever since.

    If I recall correctly it cost &54k to build, not counting the work done by prisoners who were marched there every day from the Terrace Gaol & whose commendable efforts included making some of the bricks from clay at the site.

    There’s a massive lump of unworked, polished Pounamu, surrounded by a korowai that I inspected & admired for a few minutes, on display in the atrium area by reception & all the Welly Hospital signs including deapartments & rooms are bilingual English & Maori.

    I was fascinated by the history mural, all along the way to Radiology & took a pic of this one, because I thought it was quaint. However, knowing it is Maori language week, I’m now wondering if all the history there, only in English, should have accompanying Maori translations.

    As you’re so proficent, can you translate this into Maori for me? I’ve got some things to do. How long will you need?

    1225 hours

    Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  September 10, 2018

      More than happy to do that for you, Gezza, only…why?

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  September 10, 2018

        I’d like to see how it looks in Maori, & get an idea how much space would be needed on the wall to do it. Don’t worry about the testimonial from the probationer nurses thanking their supervising tutor for her wonderful work with them that you can only see half of on the left.

        But if you could translate all the readable bits including in the “Nursing as a profession” box, that’d be appreciated.

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  September 10, 2018

          No worries, I’m add it to my list of “must-dos” for today. The word tangatanga means “probationer” and I’m sure you’ll agree, it’s more elegant.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  September 10, 2018

            That’s coming up in Te Aka Maori Dictionary as to loosen, loosely, loose not tight, comfortable, easy. And in Google Translate as:
            1. Important, and
            2. Baggy.

            So no, I certainly don’t agree it’s more elegant. In fact it’s thoroughly confusing. There will be another Maori word or term that means probationer, in the sense it is used here for student nurse. Nehi, or nehi pia or Nahi pia seem more likely.

            Probation these days has a different meaning for many Maori. So much so they now have a transliteration for it: poropeihana.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  September 10, 2018

              I’m all for kids learning Maori robert. Have been for many years. Used to argue it should be compulsory for all students but I’ve moved away from that in recent years & I’m pondering that some more.

              I like the sound of some Polynesian languages, including Maori: but for elegance & precision, when it’s needed, nothing beats the richness of vocabulary of English. French comes close for elegance. Both these languages are still widely spoken around the world for the sheer practicality & pleasure of them.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 10, 2018

              It’s not a competition, Gezza; two languages (or more) can live side by side. Speaking French gives me less pleasure than speaking Maori, but that’s a personal thing.

            • Gezza

               /  September 10, 2018

              Exactly. So suggesting one language is more elegant than another was fucking stupid. Wasn’t it? Especially as I think the elegant word you used was wrong.

    • Gezza

       /  September 10, 2018

      Ah, found it. This was part of the history mural

      Banquet given at Wellington to native chiefs. [Pipitea Street, 1849, from a drawing by Mr J. H. Marriott, London 1850]

      The event took place on 17 April 1849 in the house of Dr Fitzgerald, next-door to the hospital according to an article in the Wellington Independent, 25 April 1849, p. 3. Dr Fitzgerald was in the chair, with Mr Henry St Hill as vice-chair. Octavius Hadfield was also present, along with Te Puni, Wi Tako and a large group of other Maori men, including Hemi, all listed in the article. Reference number: PUBL-0033-1850-084, Alexander Turnbull Library, Wellington, New Zealand.

      This banquet was given apparently to celebrate the opening of the first Thorndon Hospital:

      “The first Colonial Hospital
      In 1845, the colony’s governor, George Grey commissioned four hospitals, to be located in Wellington, Auckland, New Plymouth and Wanganui. A particular stipulation that he made was that each hospital should provide services to both the settlers and local Maori. Indeed, when plans were drawn up for the hospital in Wellington, it was referred to as the Native Hospital and that title continued through until the end of 1847 when it was replaced by the Colonial Hospital.

      The hospital opened in September 1847 and which was built on land donated by local Maori, bordered by Pipitea and Mulgrave streets – on the site where present-day Wellington Girls’ College is located. This was the first of the four colonial hospitals to open.

      It was a two storey brick and plaster structure. On the ground floor was a large surgery, opposite to which was another room used as a sick ward. Other rooms on the ground floor were offices. On the first floor was a large ward running the length of the building, capable of housing eight to ten patients. It was planned to add two extra wings in due course to accommodate more patients.

      There were steam and shower baths. Each patient was taken straight to the bath rooms on admission and if not too ill was subject to a steam bath by the hospital attendants.”

      Reply
  1. Creeping Aotearoa (whakamokamoka Aotearoa?) — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition

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