Green differences over 1080

Groups and individuals have staunchly opposed the use of 1080 to control pests like possums and rats, but the Department of Conservation and conservation groups see it as an essential tool in protecting native species.

Some take extreme measures. RNZ: Loose nuts threaten DOC staff safety

There are fears for the safety of conservation workers and contractors after recent attacks on their vehicles.

In three instances wheel nuts on the vehicles were loosened in acts believed to be connected to protests over the Conservation Department’s use of 1080 poison for pest management.

In the most serious case a contractor avoided injury when a wheel came off while he was driving, after its nuts had been loosened.

DOC director-general Lou Sanson said toxic bait had been put in a staff letterbox and he had also seen other threatening posts on Facebook recently.

“Threats to put wires across gullies to bring down helicopters and a number of brochures put on DoC vehicles depicting targets of helicopters.”

He said it was extremely disappointing as DoC staff were working hard to try and preserve New Zealand’s native birds.

“Rats, stoats and possums have been winning. We know we can turn it around and we have.”

“Keas have made a great recovery in nearly 20 percent of the Southern Alps and there has also been an amazing recovery in kākā and mohua in South Westland.”

Mr Sanson said people had a right to protest but it had gone too far.

There seems to be a difference within the Green Party on this.

Newshub: National MP accuses Marama Davidson of undermining Conservation Minister

National MP Sarah Dowie says Marama Davidson has undermined fellow Green Party MP and Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage with comments over 1080.

Ms Davidson said on Wednesday protesters who threw dead birds and fake pellets on the steps of parliament had “valid concerns”.

“We need to listen, and we need to have community-led conversations about this,” she told Stuff.

“They are trying to be heard, and we will need to keep listening.”

“There are some concerns about 1080 but it is the major tool we’ve got in the tool box to assist particularly in the more remote and mountainous areas,” Ms Sage told Stuff in June.

Ms Dowie said it was not a good look for the Greens to have two MPs apparently disagreeing about the poison.

“Ms Sage will be highly embarrassed by Marama Davidson’s comments to the anti-1080 lobby,” she said.

“She’s basically undermined Ms Sage’s efforts with respect to the protection of our biodiversity.”

Ms Dowie said the division may go even further, considering another governing party’s stance on the poison.

“New Zealand First actually campaigned on banning the use of 1080,” she said.

Both National and Labour say 1080 is the most effective pest control tool New Zealand has. They have the support of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, the Department of Conservation, the Environmental Protection Authority, and lobby groups including Forest and Bird, Federated Farmers, WWF and Ospri.

A tweet from ex-Green MP Kevin Hague yesterday:

 

There seems to be a clash between the environmental Greens and the activist Greens.

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24 Comments

  1. Gerrit

     /  September 13, 2018

    The Greens are, to paraphrase Winston Churchill;

    “I cannot forecast to you the action of the Greens. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma”

    Reply
  2. Griff.

     /  September 13, 2018

    There seems to be a clash between the environmental Greens and the activist fringe whacko Greens.
    Fixed for you Pete.
    I have been listening to talk back debate over 1080.
    The anti are a bunch of conspiracy pushing loons.
    With a few hunter types more worried about 1080 killing their pigs and deer than the environment.

    There is 30km of continues bush from my backyard here in kaiwaka to the batch at Langs .
    Here in Kiawaka the dawn chorus is almost nonexistent at Langs it is healthy
    The difference is the ridge just behind Langs was 1080ed about five years ago eliminating possums from the local area.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  September 13, 2018

      I can’t now remember who the environmentalist/conservationist was who had been anti-1080 but was now for it. He was interviewed in an area where it had been used and whither the birds had flocked back in vast numbers and were now singing their hearts out in the new pest-free green bush.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  September 13, 2018

      ”The anti are a bunch of conspiracy pushing loons.
      With a few hunter types more worried about 1080 killing their pigs and deer than the environment.”

      The only nut around here is you. The fact is both sides of the argument have shown valid evidence for their stance on 1080.

      Conservationists have shown areas of forest that’d been silent with little bird life become alive again with a dawn chorus after 1080 had been used.

      Hunters have shown tracts of forest littered with indiscriminate dead animals- some native- on the forest floor and in streams after a 1080 drop.

      Griff, if you want to call me out for not understanding the scientific method, it’s best you be practicing that yourself before calling others loons.

      Reply
      • Griff.

         /  September 13, 2018

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  September 13, 2018

          HERE, GRIFF. COME, BOY. UNCLE CORKY HAS SENT SOME TASTY GREEN PELLETS FOR YOU TO TRY.😁

          Reply
        • Griff.

           /  September 13, 2018

          No need to shout boy.
          I trap my block for rats, stoats and possums with goodnature self setting traps.
          Even shot a bunny with the slug gun between posts just now.
          I do my share.
          I have been keen on native plants for years. I have grown and planted thousands of plants as a hobby.
          Possums if not trapped stop many native plants successfully reproducing as they eat all the seeds.
          As well they selectively browse species until they die. This is as well as eating the eggs and young of birds.
          if we dont do something we lose the bush and the birds.
          1080 is the best way to attack the pest in large areas of NZ.
          There is often no other way to reduce the numbers to the same extent.
          Multiple studies have been done on this . 1080 is relatively safe cheap and effective for the elimination of mammalian pests in NZ The views of a few ignorant nutters not based on reality should not be allowed to take over the conversation.

          Reply
      • chrism56

         /  September 13, 2018

        Corky, Griff is a lot more rational (and correct) in this than you. Stop talking in anecdotes
        You wrote “shown tracts of forest littered with indiscriminate dead animals- some native- ” What native animals are there?
        Some years back I took part in a big search exercise at Clements Mill Road looking for dead animals after a poison drop in the middle of winter. It was a close search of an area of about 100 hectares of native forest. We found dead ferrets and possums and one dead bird (introduced species). There was no dead native birds found. However, we did hear and see quite a number of native birds in the area, including morepork. Both EPRO and WRC documented the search. That was proof to me of the effectiveness of 1080.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  September 13, 2018

          ”Corky, Griff is a lot more rational (and correct) in this than you. Stop talking in anecdotes.”

          Read my post again. And did you watch the documentary on 1080 a few years back? Some may remember it.

          My problem with Griff isn’t his opinion – whether fact or fiction. It’s his disingenuous claiming of the scientific method when its obvious he has no clue what he’s talking about.

          As to my opinion on 1080. From what I have experienced I would say 1080 ultimately works but it’s an indiscriminate killer.

          I do not think it’s a puppy licking a screen. Watch the news tonight. That will make you
          very happy.

          Reply
          • Griff.

             /  September 13, 2018

            Umm the screen licking is to signify something else Corky.

            Hunters have shown tracts of forest littered with indiscriminate dead animals-

            Some hunters dont give a fuck about the health of the bush all they are interested in is hunting pigs or deer.

            Pigs are indiscriminate scavengers they will eat anything they especially like rotten meat. Around here you dont need to dispose of dead cows you just leave them for the pigs to clean up . Pigs eat the dead possums and die as a result.
            They are a pest species so DOC and genuine conservationist dont care if they are reduced as a by product of targeting possums. Pigs spread TB also kauri dieback as well as destroy the undergrowth and compete with native birds for food.

            We have a problem here with the local pig hunters breeding pigs to release into the bush..It is actually illegal to release pests like pigs into the wild. A few weeks ago I counted eight pigs up to 100kg rooting up my back paddock.

            I have also run into problems with a fuckwit local who “farms” goats. You need full deer fencing to keep goats contained not a rickety old seven wire fence.Some of his goats have escaped and we now have them running feral in the bush . I set the dog on some feeding in the back paddock a few weeks ago and had another one of the locals get upset and ring the dog ranger on me .

            Reply
            • chrism56

               /  September 13, 2018

              Actually Griff, the pigs are very hard to kill by poison. even cyanide. They vomit up their food if its off. That is why they are so hard to eradicate. Usually needs guns and dogs.
              Try reading this
              https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03014223.2012.740488

            • Griff.

               /  September 13, 2018

              A risk of 1080-poisoned carcasses to scavenging pigs (Sus scrofa) may also exist, as well as a risk to humans from consuming animals that have received sub-lethal doses of 1080. However, no published data addressing these risks exist for pigs or humans. 2012
              From a read of references young pigs are more at risk than adults but little work has been done to quantify kill rates.

              Pigs eat rotten carcasses.
              I dont clean up the kill from my traps .
              When I was not here full time I had about half a dozen dead possums at one stage sitting under the trap,
              They all disappeared in a few days when the pigs found them as they started to smell.
              I found interesting references to stomach content poisoning dogs.
              My dog eats all of a possum except the stomach .

              They recommend the use of 1080 on pigs in AU.
              https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/pest-mammals/feral-pig-control-1080-baiting

          • chrism56

             /  September 13, 2018

            That program by Mr Graf was not a documentary. It was just above the level of tinfoil hatwearing. And I read your posts. Both sides cannot show valid evidence. The anti-brigade typically show a lack of any chemistry knowledge.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  September 13, 2018

              If it didn’t show the chap from bird and game(?) showing a forest teeming with bird life because of 1080 pest eradication according to him, then that wasn’t the doco I watched.

              No. I don’t think you read my post. I quote:

              ”Griff, if you want to call me out for not understanding the scientific method, it’s best you be practicing that yourself before calling others loons.”

              Now read Griffs original post. Then his puerile posting of a puppy dog aimed at me. Some scientific method.

              And you are talking of tinfoil hats?

            • chrism56

               /  September 13, 2018

              I actually agree with most of Griff’s original post (there are no post times, so I assume it is the one under Gerrit’s you are referring to). Yes Griff does abuse anyone who disagrees with him, which kills a lot of his argument’s value, and he isn’t as well read in the literature as he likes to make out. Having said that though, the anti-1080 group are dominated by loons. They are the tinfoil hat wearers. And what they produce isn’t evidence, like the “poisoned” birds at parliament having blunt force trauma.
              And what non-target species does it indiscriminately kill, other than dogs which shouldn’t be there?

  3. Patzcuaro

     /  September 13, 2018

    I think there are two arms to the anti 1080 movement, one being anti poison and the other being hunters. The anti poison side would probably be green whereas the hunters are more likely to be conservative wanting to protect their hunting “rights”.

    The deer and pigs etc that the hunters are trying to protect are also detrimental to the native forests.

    Reply
  4. artcroft

     /  September 13, 2018

    Just 1080 the countryside from one end to the other. And let’s kill the cats. I want the birds brought back and I have rights you know.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  September 13, 2018

      Arty, if you had to lead Cactus Jack in your local saloon, would you riddle the barman and chorus girls with hot lead, or would you wait until Cactus Jack was upstairs in his Long Johns
      waiting to be pleasured by a lady of the night?

      Reply
  5. bjoneskiwi

     /  September 13, 2018

    Anyone interfering with vehicles or trying to bring down helicopters should be charged with attempted murder and locked up for an extended period, don’t care what excuse or cause they think justifies their actions, completely unacceptable!

    Reply
    • I would guess that the wires are bluff, but the wheel nuts are obviously not. I wouldn’t think that attempted murder would stick, but there must be some charge that would.

      Nobody LIKES mass poison drops, but until someone comes up with a better solution, we haven’t much option. Yes, trapping possums is the ideal, but there are just too many of them. It that would work, it would be done and a fortune made from the fur.

      Reply
  6. Sunny

     /  September 13, 2018

    I’m not a greeny. And have no opinion on 1080. But what annoys me about Hagues response is that instead of addressing the concerns, (obviously dropping poison on the forest has risks and benefits) he just writes them off as a bunch of conspiracy theorists not worth listening to. It’s the same tactic as calling people racist to shut down discussion. He should take the opportunity to explain why 1080 is the right choice.

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  September 13, 2018

      It is a tweet.
      Pretty hard to actually explain such a complex subject in 140 characters.
      Any one listening to the anti crowd will soon pick up the conspiracy nonsense .

      Reply
  7. High Flying Duck

     /  September 13, 2018

    Not sure the anti-1080 nutters have done themselves any favours. Trevor Mallard has laid a complaint with police because the birds dumped at parliament by protesters yesterday were bashed to death rather than poisoned.

    Reply
    • Maggy Wassilieff

       /  September 13, 2018

      Yep Wonder how Marama Davidson justifies dealing with folks who have deliberately captured and killed native birds.
      Hypocritical Greens.

      Reply

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