Open Forum – Wednesday

19 September 2018

Forum

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94 Comments

  1. David

     /  September 19, 2018

    Who wants a wager that Ardern will announce the increase in the refugee quota either at the UN meeting she is off to or the day before.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  September 19, 2018

      Think you won that one, David.

      • David

         /  September 19, 2018

        Now as a companion bet watch the employment legislation being watered down at NZ Firsts behest. A sad day when the Labour Party sells out the workers and their union funders for foreign interests while Peters sells out the 50,000 homeless Kiwis he was working for way back last week.

  2. lurcher1948

     /  September 19, 2018

    Who wants a wager that some more racist white South Africans like HDPA with their old inbred racist habits enter NZ today to reside

    • This could be seen as a racist comment itself. There’s many immigrants here from South Africa, and they’re likely to have a wide range of views, so it’s unfair to tar them all with the same brush.

      • lurcher1948

         /  September 19, 2018

        Should i post a picture of the old South African flag that was hanging at the cake tin on Saturday night, old lifestyles die hard

    • Corky

       /  September 19, 2018

      Well, under apartheid blacks could expect to be whipped or battened for infringements as a general rule.

      Under the present black regime whites can expect to be hacked to death.

      • PartisanZ

         /  September 19, 2018

        No … Blacks were segregated, deprived of human rights, relocated, wrongfully imprisoned, tortured, murdered and massacred … ie Sharpeville 21 March 1960 … get your facts right …

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpeville_massacre

        • Corky

           /  September 19, 2018

          Yeah, I have the book. Yellow cover with a picture of blacks running in terror. I have my facts right. I said ” as a general rule.”

          The fact you need to become cognisant with is blacks are just as bad as whites, and are in some cases worse. They aren’t able to run a country. They are tribal, just like socialists. That’s always a recipe for stagnation and regression.

          Exhibit A: Our present government.

          • PartisanZ

             /  September 19, 2018

            The constant ‘Right Brigade’ resort to the word ‘tribal’ utterly bewilders me …

            As though yous AREN’T tribal … !!!

            As though the National Party or ACT or The Conservatives isn’t each a Tribe …!!!

            As though The NZ Initiative isn’t a ‘tribe’ that runs on a Western version nepotism and ‘legitimized corruption’ as any African political party does an African version … How many non-Right-Wingers employed by NZInitiative?

            Of course I know why you use “tribal” so liberally … It’s because of its associations with Black and Brown, indigenous and so-called “uncivilized” peoples … and the implications of that … which invokes the old inbred, ingrained, institutional and everyday racism.

            What you might not realize is you make fools of yourselves every time you use the ‘tribal’ label …

            Blacks are just as good as Whites too … and sometimes better …

            As I indicated in an earlier post, our present government is actually just too smart for you, so you can’t see beyond “stagnation and regression” … They’ve hoodwinked you …

            • Corky

               /  September 19, 2018

              ”As though yous AREN’T tribal … !!!”

              What you misunderstand is Western tribalism is different. It’s composed of individuals who’ve made a choice to belong to certain groups. Other people, especially third world indigenous folk, don’t have a sense of ”I.” They are part of a” we” group. Hence their inability to run a country. They bring no individual skills to the table.

              I have no trouble using the word ‘tribal’ as a negative connotation…and I mean it.

              ”As I indicated in an earlier post, our present government is actually just too smart for you.”

              If you believe that…..

        • Gezza

           /  September 19, 2018

          Five years ago 34 miners striking over poor pay and harsh working conditions were shot and killed by police in South Africa.
          More …
          https://www.aljazeera.com/video/news/2017/08/south-africa-fails-compensate-families-killed-striking-miners-170815191635484.html

          No one has been charged five years after the massacre, in which 34 miners were shot and killed by police.
          More …
          https://www.aljazeera.com/video/news/2017/08/south-africa-commemorates-marikana-miners-killed-police-170816194825044.html

          Six years on, still no justice or closure for Marikana victims
          As thousands of mining jobs are cut, families of striking workers slain in 2012 still await compensation and justice.
          More …
          https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/08/years-justice-closure-marikana-victims-180815211856312.html

          • Corky

             /  September 19, 2018

            How many of the police officers were black?

            Of course let’s keep things in perspective.

            https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/271997/heres-how-south-africas-crime-rate-compares-to-actual-warzones/

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              Aljaz had a lengthy documentary on it, with video footage taken over several days of the strikes – the miners weren’t just shot into as a group – some were even followed and shot individually. It was horrible.

              As far as I could see all the police officers were black.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 19, 2018

              Of course PZ will blame apartheid, Corky. While he advocates for his own version here.

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              I can’t locate the Aljaz one with google. It may have been this one, edited down to fit an hour segment. I think some of the miners were armed with sticks and machetes to protect themselves

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 19, 2018

              Of course blacks suffer the most from the present debacle, even the ANC politicians in the north killing each other in targeted hits.

            • Corky

               /  September 19, 2018

              True. Blacks need to fear other blacks as much as they do whites.

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              Yes Corky. That’s the issue for me. Blaming white people for their bad behaviour and assuming that black people or people of any other race or culture are better or worse is just not borne out by facts – abuse of power and corruption aren’t the particular preserve of any particular race or culture – and neither are virtue and compassion.

    • PartisanZ

       /  September 19, 2018

      Jeez Lurcher, someone had take the worst of the Apartheid bunch when their glorious system of government – which we’d both supported and sanctioned for years – finally fell to shit …

      After all, we’re their blood brothers on the rugby field …

      But make no mistake Lurchy … It’s not ‘tribal’ … Whites cannot be ‘tribal’ … got it!?

      The ‘Blacks’ who rule now are all being tarred with the same brush Pete … by most on here at least …

    • lurcher1948

       /  September 19, 2018

      Speak of the devil, that champion of the right” the blogger who never gets a $1 for his posts” tui ad,DAVID FARRAR and Kiwiblog suddenly posts a post on a NZME rightwing talkback host defending her RACIST COMMENTS,, this all done with the generosity of his heart…dirty deeds done dirt cheap another TUI ad but then im NOT a knuckle dragging right winger who howls at the moon
      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/09/how_many_times_can_stuff_repeat_a_false_slur.html
      I HEARD HDPA and her theme on this subject

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  September 19, 2018

        Rubbish, Lurch. The PI governments are as corrupt as hell and HDPA was spot on.

  3. lurcher1948

     /  September 19, 2018

    This post is a gem,it should be on Simon Bridges survival team
    Welcome to McGovernment. Can I take your order please?
    I’d like a Bill Burger.

    I’m sorry sir, we stopped selling these a year ago. You might like to try our new COL Burger?
    Oh. What’s in a COL Burger?

    Horse fillet, eco-wilted greens, shredded economy, socialist sauce, and all served on a stardust-encrusted bun
    Horse? Um, no thanks. Have any fish burgers?

    Yes sir, we do. We have a Big Groper which is very popular with our younger guests, and a McFlounder.
    I’ll have the McFlounder thanks.

    Would you like any lies with that?
    Yes please. Large lies.

    So that’s one McFlounder with large lies. That comes to .. everything that’s in your wallet

  4. Gezza

     /  September 19, 2018

    I’m going to interested to see what Questions get asked of Chris Hipkins today. At Q11 time yesterday he was asked whether ALL the documents & emails had now been located & for details of what they showed. Hipkins, clearly on the defensive, was obfuscating & going on about their now being with the Archivist & he hadn’t seen them & OIA requests were available etc – and Speaker Trev told him very firmly to get them & to be able to answer “properly worded” questions about them today.

  5. Corky

     /  September 19, 2018

    Something is not quite right here regarding how Martin Lawes was caught. A man of his intelligence, his reputation, would have surely researched the best options for online anonymity. I think authorities are holding back on how they tracked him down

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/national-video/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503075&gal_cid=1503075&gallery_id=198399

  6. Pickled Possum

     /  September 19, 2018

    Ardent conservationist Peter Grant was the man who blew the whistle on birds being killed by 1080 carrot bait in the poison’s early, experimental days.

    Now he is a advocate for 1080!!

    “We found that if it’s done properly the birds are far better off. If there’s some bird kill the population has bounced back to the same level in a year and increased in two years.”

    The Grants fear anti-1080 campaigners will stop the drops happening – as happened recently in the Hunua Ranges near Auckland.

    “Our biggest fear is that this hostility will leave all these birds and other animals stranded high and dry, because there’s nothing else at the moment that’s preventing them from going extinct,” Peter Grant said.

    WHAT-ABOUT; Trappers unemployed men and woman going into the bush
    to keep the possum population under CONTROL.
    Not hurting any other creature in the process.
    Toxins will/may have an effect that the scientist don’t know about yet.

    Why do we have to manufacture a toxin that was created in USA?
    (even they have banned it,)
    for 50+ looong years we have been poisoning papatuanuku.
    FFS!!

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12127220

    • robertguyton

       /  September 19, 2018

      “Sir Mark said he was proud to announce that the inaugural Maori Climate Commissioner would be Donna Awatere Huata, of Ngati Whakaue, Ngati Porou, Ngati Hine and Nga Puhi descent.”
      This is the bit that made me … stutter…

      • Corky

         /  September 19, 2018

        She covers many bases.

        • phantom snowflake

           /  September 19, 2018

          Hi Corky. Recently you seemed to be expressing some angst concerning Maori Language Week. It made me wonder: is there some way in which Te Reo Maori has caused you harm, and would you wish it to die out?

          • Corky

             /  September 19, 2018

            No harm to me. I was bought up in a household that spoke Maori. No, I would not wish the language to die out.

            So what’s my problem?

            1- Tokenism.
            2- A belief Maori language is relevant beyond our borders.
            3- Compulsion. Like store workers made to wear Santa hats leading up to Xmas
            and having no choice about looking like dicks, so to many people who are forced to kowtow to Maori language and culture…hospitals are a great example.
            4- Priorities. We have many Maori who are so ignorant they can barely function in an increasingly complex world that even educated people struggle with. Yet Maori are being sold the line: ” learn your culture and you will be kapai.”
            5- Not accepting the fact many people don’t give a flying fug about Maori and their culture.

            Now a question for you PS: Imagine a disease wipes out Maori and third world immigrants to this country. Apart from being stale and white…what would happen to our world rankings along the lines of social indicators, especially crime, health and education?

            • phantom snowflake

               /  September 19, 2018

              Thanks, I appreciate your considered answer. I don’t think much of your question, though. It’s no secret that (many) colonized people have dreadful statistics when it comes to health, education, poverty, addiction, crime rates. Obvious examples include Native Americans and Australian Aborigines. I’m sure you have some (rather contentious) ideas as to why that may be. That Maori are genetically or culturally inferior is not credible in my view.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  September 19, 2018

              [Unfortunately “Real World” considerations mean I am unable to continue this discussion. I hope someone else picks it up.]

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              I think there’s some relevance to the point Corky’s making although it’s typically so in your face it’s offensive. There’s an element with some, it seems, that “pakeha education” is not necessary for Maori and yet so much of it, really is vital. And it’s not “pakeha”. It’s just education. Stuff people really need to know to function properly in an educated modern society which assumes you will know it.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 19, 2018

              Very, very few people are “functioning properly” in society, Imo, Gezza. Those who are have, so far as I know, looked outside of “pakeha” education and learned more valuable … learnings.

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              That is such a narrow worldview robert that I don’t accept it as true in all cases. But could you explain what “functioning properly” in society means to you – because your definition may be different to mine.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 19, 2018

              Many people function sufficiently in society that they don’t come to any great harm during their lifetimes, granted but functioning properly as a human being is something very different, Imo and that’s a big discussion, one I’d love to have, though here won’t be a good place for that, I expect.
              Narrow view? I don’t know how you think that, I must have worded my comment poorly. Need to change a blunt crayon, I reckon.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 19, 2018

              You have some peculiar ideas if you think a subculture that produces failure is not inferior, snowflake. But obviously not all Maori suffer that subculture.

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              Those who are have, so far as I know, looked outside of “pakeha” education and learned more valuable … learnings.

              I do that, and I see that. I also see things that are not so valuable. One of my problems in life has been that for a hermit I really like people and talk easily to just about anyone. I listen and look and the next thing I now I’m seeing it and feeling it from their perspective. It’s been really difficult for me make some decisions quite often where one has to go one way or the other and I think both are right. I used to wonder wtf was wrong with me but now I’ve learned there’s nothing wrong with. It’s how I am and I just have to muddle on doing the best I can. I can see your worldview and I can see Al’s – and I understand both.

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              Sorry for couple of glitches in comment above. I want to get outside in the glorious weather for a little while so I rushed it. Hope it makes sense.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 19, 2018

              You certainly are…empathetic, Gezza. Have you settled on any shareable/describable “basic principles for living” or are you just bouncing from cloud to cloud? I mean this in a friendly way, in case you feel I’m being insincere.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 19, 2018

              Alan, I couldn’t understand you comment at all.

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              Have you settled on any shareable/describable “basic principles for living”

              Yes. Many. Learned the hard way. Growing up suffering from anxiety and depression and low self esteem and still having enuf viking genes to punch anyone who pissed me off (sometime without thinking it thru first and not always with the most desirable end-result) has a been long, slow, deeply observant and analytical process.

              or are you just bouncing from cloud to cloud?
              Nope. I now know sometimes I have to make decisions and sometimes I don’t. I try to stay internally consistent with my emotional values but to also be realistic and pragmatic.

    • Gezza

       /  September 19, 2018

      🤔

      One good thing about it I guess is that whenever our weather goes all to hell in future the usual suspects can now blame it on the Maori. o_O

      • robertguyton

         /  September 19, 2018

        That’s funny; dry wit, sarcasm or tongue-in-cheek? (in-training).

        • Gezza

           /  September 19, 2018

          If that uptick’s yours, and that’s all I get, it’s a failed attempt and I may have made an ass of myself. It’s not an exact science. One has to make judgement calls.

          • robertguyton

             /  September 19, 2018

            Sorry, Gezza, I don’t do ticks at all. I commented instead. Hang on! Just this once, mind!

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              Aw. Thanks for that robert. 🙂 I’m bloody sensitive as you know and when I’ve made an ass of myself I really feel it ! 😦

        • Gezza

           /  September 19, 2018

          Technically, however, I would put that in the category of tongue-in-cheek. And expect it to maybe only hit the spot with the really discerning viewer. It plays on the idea that the usual suspects (there’s no need for names here) lose no opportunity to blame EVERYTHING on Maori.

          Even I seriously wonder whether this is even needed. How on earth can there even be a Maori climate?

          • robertguyton

             /  September 19, 2018

            How can there not be a Maori climate? If there’s a climate at all, it’s because it’s perceived by someone. Why not Maori? Are they unaware of it?

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              It’s a good question robert because they’re not actually saying that when I went back and read it properly instead of just jumping into jokey frame. I guess the idea that Maori need to have someone advising them on how things Maori like projects and enterprises with climate impacts should be dealt with or need advice from someone who’s Maori – as though there’s a difference from what they might get from anywhere else – seems to be unnecessary – and as though Maori should really only communicate about such matters with Maori?

            • robertguyton

               /  September 19, 2018

              Here in Southland/Murihiku, Maos with manawhenua have undertaken a exhaustive series of studies on mahikakai; “resources” and the state of the Yakima using their cultures kappa as their model. Climate change will and is, affecting their resources. Should they rely on pakeha, science and culture-based research for their decision-making, or should they look to their own matauranga Maori research and researchers?

            • robertguyton

               /  September 19, 2018

              The grammar/spell-check on this site changes my spelling often and if I don’t check before posting…
              Maos/Maori Yakima/takiwa kappa/kaupapa

            • Gezza

               /  September 19, 2018

              Someone is going to go on about the Moa & whatever else early Maori wiped out probably, but not me. We’ve all done that. Then realised we have to do something to make sure we don’t do it again. Can you explain what pakeha culture based research is and how it would differ – give an example maybe?

              I’m liking your stuff here today, btw.

            • robertguyton

               /  September 19, 2018

              That’s gratifying. For me too. So far I’ve only collected a “snowflake” and a reference to riding a penny-farthing – not too bad, considering.

              “WHAT IS MATAURANGA MAORI?
              Mātauranga Māori can be defined as ‘the knowledge, comprehension, or understanding of everything visible and invisible existing in the universe’, and is often used synonymously with wisdom. In the contemporary world, the definition is usually extended to include present–day, historic, local, and traditional knowledge; systems of knowledge transfer and storage; and the goals, aspirations and issues from an indigenous perspective.”

              “science
              the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.”

              A practice that results in wisdom is a winner for me. Are scientists wise?

      • Corky

         /  September 19, 2018

        Correct. Derision and odium is the correct response for this scam within a scam. I wonder what the pay is like? Hundred grand plus surely. Just shows, time heals and too many people forget.

        • robertguyton

           /  September 19, 2018

          I most certainly support the inclusion of the Maori worldview in the discussions about climate change. I’d hope the global discussions also include the voices of indigenous peoples across the globe. If provision isn’t made for those voices to be heard, they would likely as not be unheard, to our shared disadvantage. I believe the scientific approach to living on this planet is not an exclusive one, not the only one needed to keep the place running. It seems to me we have, by employing the scientific view in preference to any other, we’ve degraded the place almost to the point of ruination. So, A dedicated Maori voice for this country’s discussion on climate change? YES.

  7. PartisanZ

     /  September 19, 2018

    In the ‘1080 Mythbuster’ leaflet the Grants are essentially admitting that ‘Predator Free 2050’ is impossible …

    Even using 1080 we can only control them …

    The MASSIVE ‘For and Against’ campaign in the media at present is an illuminating example of politics freely at play in the so-called ‘Fourth Estate’ …

    The irony is so many heavyweights of ‘conservation’ supporting the poisoning of the environment …

    The “anything but use people to trap” – supporting fur and petfood industries – is a testament to the ‘industrialization’ of conservation – which will ultimately benefit who’s pockets?

    Some even argue the ultimate beneficiaries are the Oilagarchy …

    Helicopters, trucks and bait factories might even tend to support this idea?

  8. Zedd

     /  September 19, 2018

    I see a news item: Sth Africa, is set to legalise cannabis 🙂

  9. lurcher1948

     /  September 19, 2018

    • robertguyton

       /  September 19, 2018

      Most attractive Prime Minister we’ve ever had! Great billboard – will it go onto Trademe later, doyathink?

      • Gezza

         /  September 19, 2018

        Most attractive Prime Minister we’ve ever had!

        Aw come on, get real, robert. 🙂

        Tracy Watkins interviewed him in a cafe once over coffee and couldn’t stop batting her eyelashes at him, even took her specs off so it was more obvious.

        • robertguyton

           /  September 19, 2018

          What does Key mouth during his Walk of Shame, Gezza?
          It’s not…ponytail, is it ?

          • Corky

             /  September 19, 2018

            The strong never need to fear looking like a fool. They can be magnanimous. The little man with a big ego fears any situation he finds himself in. He knows one pin prick to that fragile ego will completely destroy him.

        • lurcher1948

           /  September 19, 2018

          Lets play the whole mincing GAY walk

          • Gezza

             /  September 19, 2018

            That’s hilarious. Even Helen Clark and Phil Goff cop a serve. Political satire at its best.

  10. Pickled Possum

     /  September 19, 2018

    I made $1000.00 a week trapping winter furs AND I had to skin and tack out. Now days all you have to do is pluck 15-20 decent size coons to make $125 kilo. 1.5 million possums a year processed for the fur trade.
    I once saw a fur coat in Queen street for $15k made out of 20 possums. Why not make money out of them instead of pouring toxins on papatuanuku. Really are we that dumb.

    • lurcher1948

       /  September 19, 2018

      YES WE ARE PP. and shit kills dogs terribly

      • PartisanZ

         /  September 19, 2018

        We feed our dogs a dog roll called ‘Possyum’ … which appears to be ground up possum …

        It’s really dense and excellent chew material and the dogs love it …

        I hope 1080 poison drops don’t fuck up that burgeoning industry …

        • lurcher1948

           /  September 19, 2018

          I use that product to train my dogs its made by chunky,beef mutton and POSSUM with garlic,GREAT PRODUCT, my dogs love it

  11. PartisanZ

     /  September 19, 2018

    A couple of excellent, fairly recent docos … The Corbett Report …

    and …

    • Corky

       /  September 19, 2018

      A long time since the Corbett Report was mentioned, Parti. Your Uncle Dan introduced me to this fine Libertarian.

  12. lurcher1948

     /  September 19, 2018

    Im scared of heights(love undergrounds) and my wife loves high, so enjoy

  13. Corky

     /  September 19, 2018

    A warning to our Island cuzzies of what happens when you can’t pay your debts to China.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2123658/sri-lanka-hands-over-major-port-chinese-company

    • Blazer

       /  September 19, 2018

      U.S template as outlined by Perkins.

      • Corky

         /  September 19, 2018

        The difference is America is on our side, Blazer. Do you think us Roundies will be treated well if China becomes the dominate world power?

  14. lurcher1948

     /  September 19, 2018