Ardern does not support NZ First’s ‘Kiwi Values’ bill

I guess NZ First got the publicity they wanted over promoting some sort of legal requirement for conformation with ‘Kiwi Values’ for immigrants – see NZ First want to make immigrants ‘respect’ stipulated values – but politically it should be a non starter.

Jacinda Ardern has said she doesn’t support the concept and thinks that Labour would not support it either.

So it looks unlikely to be a government bill – unless NZ First make it a bottom line that they use to negotiate power again in 2020.

Ardern said “Literally put it in a ballot”.

As a Members’ Bill it would go in the biscuit tin lottery. If drawn it would have to get the support of either National or Labour+Greens. I think both of those options would be very unlikely – especially if NZ First MPs want to define what compulsory ‘Kiwi values’ would be.

RNZ – NZ First’s Kiwi values plan: ‘How do you actually test people?’

New Zealand First’s proposal to ensure migrants respect Kiwi values has been labelled “dog-whistle politics” and has won little support within Parliament.

The plan – raised at the party’s conference over the weekend – would require new arrivals, including refugees, to sign up to beliefs such as gender equality and religious freedom.

Other values include respect for “all legal sexual preferences” and a commitment not to campaign against alcohol consumption.

The Green Party has also pushed back, although it won’t go as far as accusing its government partner of “dog-whistle politics”.

“It’s not for me to say [NZ First’s] motivations,” Green MP Golriz Ghahraman said.

Ms Ghahraman said new arrivals should be treated with trust rather than presumed to be problems.

Immigrants are already pre-vetted on a range of things. promising to vote for Winston should not be added as a requirement.

National leader Simon Bridges told TVNZ’s Breakfast the proposal was “headline-grabbing nonsense” to distract from problems with the Government.

“Of course we’ve got our unique set of values – whether it’s tolerance or a fair go and so on,” he said.

“But the immigrants I meet, they actually very quickly become passionate, patriotic New Zealanders and they don’t need to go through some course or sign a document.”

ACT party leader David Seymour said he supported the proposal, but feared it was an empty promise.

“[NZ First] claim to have had a version of this policy for 25 years, then they say it’s new, and yet they haven’t done anything about it.”

It’s a dumb idea as far as a bill goes. It is really just an attempt by NZ First to appeal to a minority voter demographic to try and prop up their support.

 

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63 Comments

  1. Reply
  2. robertguyton

     /  October 2, 2018

    “Ms Ghahraman said new arrivals should be treated with trust rather than presumed to be problems.”
    “ACT party leader David Seymour said he supported the proposal”
    This’ll sift the wheat from the chaff here on Young 🙂

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 2, 2018

      New Zealand First’s proposal to ensure migrants respect Kiwi values has been labelled “dog-whistle politics”

      “Dog’s breakfast” would be more accurate from what I’ve seen and heard so far from those asked what should be included.

      Reply
  3. Corky

     /  October 2, 2018

    ”Ms Ardern says she does not support the concept of NZ First’s ‘Kiwi Values’ bill. Her expectation is Labour would vote against it.”

    Of course she doesn’t support this bill. Three things.

    1- She is an idiot who refuses to learn from overseas experiences regarding migrant issues.

    2- She is a globalist. That means no borders; no sovereignty over our fate. She wants that socialist nirvana of ”It takes a village to raise a child bullshit.”

    3- Therefor it naturally follows she is a traitor to our culture. She needs to be gone in 2020.

    Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  October 2, 2018

      Here’s Corky!

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 2, 2018

        Great insight, Rob…a little like Marama’s facts and figures.

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  October 2, 2018

          She was dreadful. A fully-deserved caning from Garner. I bet she felt stink from start to finish. Naturally, I felt sorry for her, but won’t defend her in that instance.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  October 2, 2018

            Not like you to be critical of your own, Robert. Must be a beautiful day in your neck of the woods.

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  October 2, 2018

              When they muck up, Corky, I’m like a terrier with a rat.
              Fortunately, they rarely do 🙂

          • PDB

             /  October 2, 2018

            I think she has such a ticket on herself she probably thought she did a good job.

            To be fair this whole govt doesn’t take any notice of the cost to taxpayers so why should she be the first to break ranks?

            Reply
    • PDB

       /  October 2, 2018

      She doesn’t support it because it is obvious to most that it wouldn’t work.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 2, 2018

        Nonsense, it just needs to be worked through. The woman is fool.

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  October 2, 2018

          Do explain how doing a ‘test’ will achieve anything? What if people lie in the test and then once in the country do the complete opposite?

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  October 2, 2018

            I have to go. So I will start with one suggestion. You raise an excellent point.

            Given migrants will have an overview of what’s expected of them. The first thing I would implement is this:

            All Muslims sitting this test would be interviewed by a woman. Behind a two-way mirror would be a Muslim official who would alert officials to an cultural bluffs being used.

            Any Muslim showing unease at a women in charge is gone. They aren’t going to change their views. Next are Muslims who are trying their best to act in the right manner..but in the presence of a woman their acting is obvious. They are gone.

            Then the fun begins. The Muslim who passes this test.

            May I ask you, PDB, did such a method I have outlined ever cross your mind?

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  October 2, 2018

              Far too subjective.

            • Corky

               /  October 2, 2018

              What is subjective? I have outline an objective first barrier defence that could be implemented right now.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 2, 2018

              “Any Muslim showing unease at a women in charge is gone. ”
              Corky, you’re showing unease at a woman in charge; Jacinda Ardern. On yer bike, mate!

            • spanish_tudor

               /  October 2, 2018

              Wouldn’t work because of the Muslim concept of ‘taqqiya’ (sp.?) whereby Muslims are encouraged to lie and deceive to infiltrate an infidel culture.

              Your suggested ‘Muslim official’ would lie blatantly to get the Muslims sitting the test across the line.

            • Corky

               /  October 2, 2018

              ”Corky, you’re showing unease at a woman in charge; Jacinda Ardern. On yer bike, mate!”

              Nonsense. I was a great admirer of Aunty. Didn’t like her politics, but boy, could she run a government. I loved her ruthless streak..she was my kind of gal.

              Unfortunately, Jacinda is a girl in comparison. A star struck little princess
              unsuited for the stage production she is currently starring in. She would currently be a back bench nobody if it wasn’t for the Italian dude and promoter from up North.

            • It wouldn’t work because Muslims are individuals like everyone else and the ideas attributed to them by the YNZ resident bigots are fabrications and bear no resemblance to reality.

              It wouldn’t work because it’s hard to imagine anyone taking part in such an insulting procedure.

              It wouldn’t work because the idea of spying on people is unlikely to be accepted by anyone except nutcase bigots.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 2, 2018

              The medical practice that I attend is run by a gay GP. His partner does the computer work and helps at the front desk.

              Neither of the two Muslim GPs there seem to have a problem with this or with having a woman doctor as part of the team.

            • Corky

               /  October 2, 2018

              ”Wouldn’t work because of the Muslim concept of ‘taqqiya’ whereby Muslims are encouraged to lie and deceive to infiltrate an infidel culture.”

              True, but remember this method would cut that potential pool of liars down considerably. Ingrained cultural habits regarding women would only be overcome by a talented percentage of migrants.

              An example of what I mean.: I saw a war movie where three suspected German operatives were being interviewed by a team of English intelligence officers. These operatives were in fact Germans. However, they spoke perfect English and no cracks in their cover story could be found.

              The wily chief intelligence officer turned to his men and said something like: ”these suspects have past all our tests; they can go.” The chief shook their hand. As the men were walking away he called out and shouted ”Heil Hitler.” Two of the three men automatically raised their arm in the Nazi salute..

              ”Your suggested ‘Muslim official’ would lie blatantly to get the Muslims sitting the test across the line.”

              Another good point. At this junction I would apply a little blackmail. I would select a well educated Muslim and lay my cards on the table. Explain everything to him and why we wanted him.

              In return he would do three months training. He/she and the extended family would receive preferential treatment for resettlement He would relieve a salary; a contract for two years..then he can walk away. He is of course welcome to keep his job if he wants.

              He will sign the Official Secrets Act and will be jailed then deported along with his family should he be found to be working against the interests of NZ.

              Of course I would also have other security measures in place.

              Foolproof? No, put it’s the nearest we could get to certainty.

    • Mefrostate

       /  October 2, 2018

      1. To the contrary, she’s continuing a migration policy supported by the vast majority of NZers, and which has not yielded any of the cultural problems seen overseas.

      2. Globalism doesn’t mean no borders and doesn’t mean no sovereignty for nation-states.

      3. NZ culture is to be welcoming to migrants, therefore you are the traitor to NZ culture.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 2, 2018

        ”1. To the contrary, she’s continuing a migration policy supported by the vast majority of NZers, and which has not yielded any of the cultural problems seen overseas.”

        Majority, yes, but very ignorant New Zealanders. As to why we don’t have the problems you see overseas, that has been discussed ad nauseum on this blog. Someone else can fill you in on that.

        ”2. Globalism doesn’t mean no borders and doesn’t mean no sovereignty for nation-states.”

        Ultimately, yes it does. That is a United Nations aim. If you can’t see the beginnings of that in the European Union, you are blind.

        3 NZ culture is to be welcoming to migrants, therefore you are the traitor to NZ culture.

        Yes it is. Yes I am. In my defense I am only talking about Muslims. Oh, and we are only welcoming to immigrants as long as they aren’t in our neighborhood..and especially not in the leafy area our PM lives in.

        Reply
  4. PDB

     /  October 2, 2018

    Another wonky idea from the party of wonky ideas. It would have to be pretty basic like “you do know that chopping off someone’s head is not good manners?” & even then there is actually nothing stopping them going out and chopping someone’s head off.

    For a change Bridges is on the ball: “Simon Bridges told TVNZ’s Breakfast the proposal was “headline-grabbing nonsense” to distract from problems with the Government.”.

    Reply
  5. Zedd

     /  October 2, 2018

    maybe a ‘watered down’ version will get the coalition nod ?

    Golriz is Iranian.. but she doesnt wear a burque (as far as Ive seen) & most immigrant folks in NZ do seem to want to ‘fit in’ at some level.. not necessarily just ‘the traditional; Rugby, Racing & BEER’ mindset though :/

    Maybe NZF need a reminder it is 2018, not 1968 (where will we be in 50 years ?)

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  October 2, 2018

      How about Indian women wearing their gorgeous clothes, Africans and Pasifika people wearing their trad dress and so on ? Should this be made illegal ?

      Reply
  6. High Flying Duck

     /  October 2, 2018

    It is a stupid proposition from NZ First and will get short shrift. The ACT Party are about personal freedoms and should be ashamed to have similar policy in their portfolio.
    Who decides the values? NZ has a broad framework under which you are entitled to believe anything you want to as long as you stay within our laws and regulations.
    Someone tweeted there should be a prison term of up to 4 years for not blowing on the pie. That is about as seriously as this proposition deserves to be taken.
    You cannot argue freedom or expression and speech and then impose an arbitrary set of values on immigrants.
    The only value should be freedom to act as you see fit without causing harm to others or breaking the law.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  October 2, 2018

      I somehow think that if ACT does, it will be nothing like this.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  October 2, 2018

        For some inexplicable reason ACT are competing for the same minuscule cohort of voters …

        The legacy of the ‘Don’ I guess?

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  October 2, 2018

          ACT is pro-immigration.

          The values it states are freedom of expression, religion, conscience, assembly and property rights. Also equality and the rule of law.

          All of these are inherent to immigration to Australia, the UK and Canada. There is nothing unreasonable there and it doesn’t seek to control private morals.

          Reply
  7. Corky

     /  October 2, 2018

    This is interesting. On many levels. Shows you the problems we have with Muslim immigration. Many will applaud her talk. Others will point out where she is supposedly ignorant of her own religion. But is she? Does she pose a threat? Doesn’t look like it.

    She would breeze through my first line defense protocols.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 2, 2018

      The Universal Declaration of Human Rights – “the United Nations just copied us!”

      Feck. What other crap does she believe?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 2, 2018

        Yep.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 2, 2018

          She’ll have to go. >:D

          Who else have they got ? 😳

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  October 2, 2018

            My second security protocol called: ”how well do you know the Koran, would pick her up as ready for deportation.

            Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  October 2, 2018

            I am amzed that Corky would post this, as it goes against many of his ignorantly bigoted views on Islam. It shows that they have as much individuality as other people and that Muslim women are not all downtrodden victims,

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 2, 2018

              Never mind, he posted it in the expectation that it would confirm his views. Fancy spending all day hunting for things that one hopes will confirm one’s own bigotry.

              I hope that he doesn’t seriously think that anyone would take his insane immigration theories seriously, but would see what nonsense they are simply by personal observation…who would support such ideas in NZ except the bigoted tiny minority who are obsessed with Muslims and Islam and can’t or won’t see that there are many shades of thought among both ?

  8. Corky

     /  October 2, 2018

    Crikey. but Mefrostate said this ain’t true. What’s that? Oh, it was posted on Whaleoil, therefore it’s fake news..thank god for that, eh. Had me worried for a moment.

    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/10/the-death-of-europe-theyre-not-even-hiding-it-any-more/

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  October 2, 2018

      If it’s Whaleoil, it is bound to be suspect and biassed. I would treat it with the contempt it deserves and not waste time wondering if it’s true or not; the odds are against it being so.

      Reply
  9. Corky

     /  October 2, 2018

    One more to finish up.

    Much respect to the Muslim lady who tells it like it is.

    She would probably get a visa from me.

    Once again the ignorance of Europeans thinking they can change a Muslim mindset. YOU CAN’T..AND YOU SHOULDN’T.

    At 9.23.

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  October 2, 2018

      How many Muslim do you know well corky ?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 2, 2018

        How many do you know.?

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  October 2, 2018

          I see… you dont actually know any at all.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  October 2, 2018

            You see nothing. Have added nothing to this debate. You want to prattle and bait. Bye.

            ps -For the record I know two Muslims as acquaintances. I have had two run ins with Somali Muslims( I assume they were Muslims).

            Reply
            • Griff.

               /  October 2, 2018

              What I have done corks? is rightly deduced you are making judgements without any actual experience as to who Muslims are and what they think.
              As such your ranting about Muslims is of no value to anyone who prefers objective reality over the contents of someones over active imagination.
              I think most of us are already fully aware of the value of your contribution on most questions.
              I know a few Muslims some of them well enough to share bread with . They are people like every one else some good some not so good.

            • Gezza

               /  October 2, 2018

              The not so good ones are the ones to worry about. Al Qaea, ISIS, Al Shabab and Boko Haram are not so good. Also the ones who blow up, shoot, stab and drive trucks and cars into people.

            • Griff.

               /  October 2, 2018

              There are Christians the same.
              Rwanda”s Catholics for instance or the IRA .
              Being an extremist is not only a Muslim thing.

              The USA is partly to blame for the mess that is the middle east
              I always grimace when I see insurgent…. its new speak for local fucked off with an occupation.

              Education is the antidote for religious extremism not warmongering , prejudice and hate.
              Knowing more about the world reduces religions hold on individuals.

            • Blazer

               /  October 2, 2018

              ‘Also the ones who blow up, shoot, stab and drive trucks and cars into people.’..sounds like the Zionist terrorists Irgun..check out the King David Hotel attack..

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

            • Corky

               /  October 2, 2018

              Zionist terrorist? I will keep an eye out for those. Who knows what they may run down next.

            • Gezza

               /  October 2, 2018

              They use sniper rifles, automatic weapons, tanks, naval ships, fighters & missile-armed drones now, Corks.

            • Gezza

               /  October 2, 2018

              I always grimace when I see insurgent…. its new speak for local fucked off with an occupation.
              Yep. It’s occupier-talk for freedom fighter or member of the resistance.

              Education is the antidote for religious extremism not warmongering , prejudice and hate. Knowing more about the world reduces religions hold on individuals.

              Yep. Logic, reading comprehension (for nutty holy books) and rational thinking helps there. too.

            • Corky

               /  October 2, 2018

              ”They use sniper rifles, automatic weapons, tanks, naval ships, fighters & missile-armed drones now, Corks.”

              In the middle of Paris and New York and London?

    • Corky

       /  October 2, 2018

      Take two..sorry folks, wrong clip. Lets do this..this time.

      At 9.23.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 2, 2018

      Might be just as well you don’t need a visa Corks? 😳

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 2, 2018

        So, the Muslim lady in this clip is lying? Or do you think she doesn’t speak for most Muslims re attitude.?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 2, 2018

          You mean where she says the Middle Eastern arab men won’t change, despite their compulsory Norwegian cultural education lessons, they will always come up and tell her she shouldn’t dress like western women, and that (while they may say, as they do here, after attending these classes – they no longer think western women dress like whores) they won’t change; as soon as they get the permanent residence they will forget all about what they’ve learned to say here?

          No, I think she’s right. I think she understands the Middle Eastern men and their blend of Muslim Arab culture perfectly well. Muslims might outwardly assimilate well when their numbers are small, but if the numbers get large they won’t. You can already see in this video that their complaint is that, while they accept they don’t understand & need to learn about Norwegian culture, Norwegians don’t understand their culture.

          No, they do. And they don’t want it.

          Reply

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