Open Forum – Friday

5 October 2018

Forum

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

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92 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  October 5, 2018
    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 5, 2018

      John Spy introduced Stasi type ‘homeland’ security…blame National.

      Reply
    • NOEL

       /  October 5, 2018

      Aw gee Alan. Before Customs had to have reasonable suspicion to search but were confronted with passwords. When asked for the passwords the obvious answer from those who were hiding data was in the piss off range. Now the can say piss off but will cost them 5000 dollars.
      I have never been asked for my phone or computer and see no reason for that to continue.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  October 5, 2018

        so you are now expecting to be asked!What…changed?

        Reply
        • NOEL

           /  October 5, 2018

          Nah don’t expect to be asked like the majority of travelers.
          Police state…….paranoid.

          Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  October 5, 2018

        No appeal, no criteria for reason to suspect,.no limits to search = police state.

        Reply
        • NOEL

           /  October 5, 2018

          Get real Alan and stop been so paranoid
          “Helen Keyes, a spokeswoman for the New Zealand Customs Service, said that the number of devices searched is “very low.”

          “99.98 percent of travellers don’t have their eDevices examined,” she wrote. “14 million travellers were risk assessed and processed in 2017 and only 537 devices were examined. A search takes place after a traveller is questioned, and this usually takes a few minutes. The device is either return it to the passenger, or detained for further examination.”

          She also noted: “‘Reasonable cause to believe’ is a higher threshold than ‘reasonable suspicion.’ It means that in light of all the facts, and circumstances, the officer reasonably believes that the electronic device contains evidence.”

          SPONSOR CONTENT

          Reply
  2. Griff.

     /  October 5, 2018

    Dumb cop of the year.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 5, 2018

      Nice cop of the year actually.

      Reply
    • High Flying Duck

       /  October 5, 2018

      Bit harsh there Griff. Seemed like a very polite and reasonable cop who had not come across a Tesla before.

      Dumb cop of the year would be more the one who defended this (and the one who issued the ticket):

      “The sun was beating down onto the dashboard and traffic was at a standstill on August 30 when Huapai resident Ragini Gautam said she moved her phone from the dashboard to prevent it over heating.
      Next thing she knew, she was pulled over by a police officer and penalised for using a mobile phone while driving.
      “I didn’t do anything. I just moved my phone,” Gautam said.
      “Are you telling me if you move an object then bam, it’s a fine? It was literally standstill traffic because of an accident.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/107597821/Auckland-driver-gets-80-fine-for-moving-her-phone-in-traffic-jam

      Reply
  3. robertguyton

     /  October 5, 2018

    “91 per cent of respondents said they wanted a target of net zero emissions across
    all greenhouse gases by 2050 set in legislation now.
    96 per cent of respondents supported the establishment of a Climate Change Commission, with an advisory role to Government.
    92 per cent of respondents thought the Bill should include provisions to help New Zealand adapt to the effects of climate change.”
    Results of the Zero Carbon Bill public submissions.

    Reply
    • Ray

       /  October 5, 2018

      It appears that certain green organisations rorted the process to get the result they wanted.
      15000 submissions but only 3000 unique ones, the rest were templates from the usual suspects.

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  October 5, 2018

        “It appears…” to a jaundiced Ray, sure, but I attended one of the consultation meetings where there were as many dyed-in-the-wool farmers as any other group. 91% wanting “zero emissions” is astounding! I submitted for the 2nd option, with C02 separated and focussed upon. You, Ray?

        Reply
  4. Gezza

     /  October 5, 2018

    MIkey’s take on the construction industry:

    Mike Hosking: Construction industry an embarrassment – good on the Government for stepping in

    Phil Twyford asking where the doorway is – he can’t get out

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12137280

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 5, 2018


      “This should be an industry that is on fire. It should be expanding, employing, training, and paying more. It should be an exemplar of an industry showing the rest of business what’s possible when times are good.

      Instead it’s a mess. From Fletchers, the so-called blue chip operator, to Ebert in liquidation just this week, to the apartment complexes sitting idle while endless problems stall progress and shatter deadlines, to the subbies out of pocket. If you wanted a 101 on how to cock up an industry’s reputation, you’d be looking pretty hard to find a better example than what we have in front of us right now.

      This is an industry famous for what? Boom and bust. And worse this time, bust in the boom times. For a person like myself, who in general terms argues the merits of a free market, this is an embarrassment.

      Yes, governments sometimes can do things only governments can do. Incentives on training programmes is a win-win. It gets people into jobs, it fills gaps, it reduces negative social indicators.”

      Reply
  5. Gezza

     /  October 5, 2018

    Hoots provides some helpful advice to the Labour rump of the current Government
    … … … …
    Matthew Hooton: Housing Minister Phil Twyford has announced that 211 KiwiBuild houses will be built in the ski resort of Wanaka. The first 10, we’re told, will be ready in just a few months, with the lucky owners moving in before Christmas.

    It goes without saying this is completely insane.
    More, for the discerning reader …
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12136913

    Reply
  6. Gezza

     /  October 5, 2018

    RIP Penny Bright. I didn’t agree with your strategy but I found it hard to fault your focussing on making Auckland’s council more transparent in its business dealings.

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  October 5, 2018

      onya Gezza

      We should all pay our Rates.. BUT we should also question the amounts being demanded by councils.. as Penny did 🙂

      Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  October 5, 2018

      “China’s different in scale and it’s different also in that it can integrate the private sector, education, civil society — all arms, if you like — of the state and the community with the objectives of the Chinese Communist Party,” says Rory Medcalf, head of the National Security College at Australian National University. “We’re not really dealing with a normal country here. We’re dealing with an authoritarian party state, where in fact Chinese citizens owe a higher loyalty to the party than to the state itself. So what we’re dealing with here is the largest secret organization in human history.”
      ………..
      They are also an ethnic state: “We Chinese are one family” – a student tells her class (unlike New Zealanders who “celebrate diversity”)

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  October 5, 2018

        One person is too small a sample to prove anything

        There are many people here who say that we are one people.

        Reply
        • sorethumb

           /  October 5, 2018

          China today is extraordinarily homogenous. It sustains that by remaining almost entirely closed to new entrants except by birth. Unless someone is the child of a Chinese national, no matter how long they live there, how much money they make or tax they pay, it is virtually impossible to become a citizen. Someone who marries a Chinese person can theoretically gain citizenship; in practice few do. As a result, the most populous nation on Earth has only 1,448 naturalised Chinese in total, according to the 2010 census. Even Japan, better known for hostility to immigration, naturalises around 10,000 new citizens each year; in America the figure is some 700,000 (see chart).

          https://www.economist.com/briefing/2016/11/19/the-upper-han

          Reply
  7. robertguyton

     /  October 5, 2018

    Gezza – your eels will be interested to know this:
    “New information has been released this week by Land, Air, Water Aotearoa (LAWA) to show how well macroinvertebrate communities in New Zealand’s waterways have been doing over the past 10 years.

    Macroinvertebrates are small animals without backbones that live in freshwater and include iconic species such as mayflies and caddisflies.

    Scientists measure their communities in rivers and streams by counting the number and different types of macroinvertebrates as this gives a good insight into what is happening with the water quality there.

    The 10-year national trend summary shows that macroinvertebrates are likely or very likely improving at 26% of sites assessed, and likely or very likely degrading at 42% of sites assessed.”

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 5, 2018

      You’ll have seen the clarity of the wai & the thriving bird, eel and other animate life in & around my stream, robert. I count myself very lucky to live next door to a waterway which is relatively short in length and amply supplied with forest-filtered water from hills on 3 sides, little farm runoff, and little visible pollution – apart from the ubiquitous infernal plastic bags and bottles that I still see drifting past underwater every day if I watch for long enuf.

      A campaign with the council to find out who was occasionally dumping detergent into it seems to have been successful.

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  October 5, 2018

        Fortunate indeed, Gezza. Would that our other streams were as healthy. Long ago, I rested beside a high country stream whilst out walking and watched as tiny fishes caught tinier moths as they alighted on the surface of the crystal clear, babbling stream; once you’ve seen what such “places” are like, anything less pristine and lively seems degraded and sad. That’s my experience anyway.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 5, 2018

          I’ve been puzzled by the lack of fish other than eels in my stream, robert, but recently I’ve noticed some ducks suddenly start dabbling furiously just below the surface and the eels must be feeding on something nutritious to get as big as some are – so I think there are probably some small bullies and other natives in the stream. Many of the native fish are tiny and they prefer shaded areas, as well. Most of the stream where I am is open to the sun. They’d also be hard to pick up against the plentiful stones on the bottom and with all the ripples. I’ve only ever seen one eel briefly with a fish in its mouth.

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  October 5, 2018

            Might have to don a mask and snorkel and put your head under the water, Gezza. I reckon streams should be teaming; abundance is nature’s default position. We are all experiencing a “desertification’ of our world and here in NZ it’s pretty bad. Imagine the times when geckoes were the principle pollinator of our native flowers, or when seabirds nested on the slopes of the Southern Alps, or the now rarer than rare voiceless frogs were under rocks from top to bottom of this land…I do and it brings me little joy. Grayling, now there’s a fish and a story! How about flocks of kereru, hundreds and hundreds in number, flying across the water from Rakiura to the main island! Kanakana swimming in schools so dense you could all but walk across the rivers on their backs. Hmmm….

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              Well, maybe. This started happening every day just a few metres upstream last Spring. It infuriated my neighbour and me (we were both feeding the eels, him from up top, me from down in the stream). We both got onto the council. Nobody had a consent to discharge detergent, and it soon stopped. But maybe there’s more of that happening upstream out of view.

              One of the two main tributaries 10 km away is teeming with native fish, but they’re behind a flood control dam.

      • Griff.

         /  October 5, 2018

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  October 5, 2018

          !!!

          Reply
          • Griff.

             /  October 5, 2018

            Was looking for a tape of the dawn Chorus on Little barrier .
            The noise is incredible but could not find anything that really was like being there.
            Thought you mind find woof woof amusing… I did.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              I love it! 🙂

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              “Early Maori (reputedly/reportedly) shaved the bristled off their tame tui tongues so they could “speak” more clearly. I spent time on Putauhinu, one of the titi islands, where the birds have flourished, following rodent eradication and transfers of tieke etc. The bird-noise there was superb!

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              Mostly around here it’s been a song thrush that most noticeably cranks the rest of the choir up. But this last week my tui seems to have picked up the job.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 5, 2018

              I was told that there are some magpies in the Waikato, I forget where, that have been called ‘Fucking magpies !’ so often that they fly around saying it. The person who told me had heard them and thought it hilariously funny.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              You give up too easily. That’s not what you did with your friend who needed help in the Courts. If you’ve got a vision for a better society and an idea of how we get there, I’d be happy to hear it.

          • Gezza

             /  October 5, 2018
            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              Sweet! Have you noticed that individual birds singing, aren’t broadcasting willy-nilly out into the wider population of birds, but are “talking” to one other, who reflects the song, changed slightly, back to the singer? Roosters do this. They wait for a reply from another rooster, sometimes faint and far away, before crowing again. Smaller birds are conversing and their conversation rolls on, changing as it goes, as does that of the receiving bird. Studies have shown…that newly-met pairs are a bit crap at talking and mirroring each others song, but get better with practice, as do the young of the parent bird that’s training them to sing.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              No I hadn’t until this morning. I’ve got a tui outside my kitchen (see General Chat) singing his little heart out every morning – and this morning I noticed he was listening to another one with the same initial bell-like whistle pattern somewhere in the distance.

            • Griff.

               /  October 5, 2018

              At langs we are backed by a large bush covered valley .
              You can hear half a dozen moreporks calling to each other .
              If you go into the bush and call they will come and check you out . Nothing like a large silent predator flying right up to you in the dark. From my experience they are one of the lest wary birds we have .
              Have seen one fly up and take huhu beetles from right under the dogs nose . He did not know what the fuck had happened.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              Ruru are marvellous. One passes by our bedroom window hunting most nights. We hear it in the distance, coming, and into the distance once it has searched our forest.
              I wonder who starts the morning chorus? Same bird, every morning?
              Bellbirds sing to the sound of water falling. I wonder if that’s where they learned their chords/riffs and trills?

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              Oops – posted in wrong place above:
              Mostly around here it’s been a song thrush that most noticeably cranks the rest of the choir up. But this last week my tui seems to have picked up the job.

              From what I’ve read it’s mostly males doing the dawn chorus, they do sing louder at dawn than thru the day, and researchers are still divided on why they sing so loudly at dawn.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              My wife says it’s because they are so delighted to have made it through the night uneaten.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              That’s ok. Just so long as she’s not projecting.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              Gezza – you might enjoy this:
              “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-53tzx69fM”

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              If you just post that YouTube link without the quotes robert, it’ll display and play here.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              @ robert. Brian’s right. And I agree with him. If people can find a way to make their living out of what they enjoy doing, they will be happy & many will become very successful financially at it. But Brian is special. And he doesn’t really realise that not everyone is. If I could start my life over again I would be doing something in the musical & creative fields. It’s where my instinctive talents are. But wanting to do that and becoming successful at it are two different things and I might find that I could not make a good living at it because there are so many more musicians who are special, and I’m not. Does that make sense?

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              Ah! Thanks.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              Well, kind of…it depends on what you regard “a living” as being. If you live lightly, your financial needs are few and tailoring your passions to your needs can be easy-ish. I don’t think it’s a “if I had my time again” thing, it’s a here-and-now situation. Special only happens when someone “cuts loose” from expectations and goes creative; an option available to anyone at any time. Backing one’s self is the pinnacle, I reckon, for better or worse. It’s the engine in the creative machine. It all depends upon who you believe your audience to be: do you play for people, musicians passed, your guitar/piano/flute, the God of music (Pan?) … instinctive talents are the ones to foster and there’s no time like the present.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              Oh yes I’ve played in bands when I was younger and I gave a few solo concerts at dad’s rest home before he passed away. But I’m a songwriter and composer and prefer making my own music up – and I’d be doing original stuff if I started over.

              The thing is if everyone lived lightly and tailored their financial situation to that ideal we wouldn’t have advanced much beyond the village life. People are driven by different things and some are more lucrative and more widely beneficial than others.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              “The thing is if everyone lived lightly and tailored their financial situation to that ideal we wouldn’t have advanced much beyond the village life.”
              Now you’re talking!
              Imagine…

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              I know. I do imagine. And the odds are we wouldn’t be talking like this if that had been the case. At the very best we’d be writing letters and waiting for sailing ships and horses and carts to deliver them.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              Or, we’d know with absolute confidence, that this discussion would be being had in every village…this is how people used to talk. We can, again.
              “At the very best we’d be writing letters and waiting for sailing ships and horses and carts to deliver them” – you have been tricked by the developers.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              you have been tricked by the developers

              No I haven’t.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              I think you have 🙂

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              I know you do. I think you’re a bit out of touch with reality and history. Every day you make use of what has been provided for you by the way our Western societies have evolved and I think your idealism is so strong that you don’t really realise or acknowledge it. But that might be because you’ve explained your thinking so inadequately?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 5, 2018

              I treasure the memory of seeing a morepork in the garden and still regret not going out when one was sitting by my bedroom window.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              I’ve just learned to always have a cellcam camera handy Kitty. I’ve realised I see so many things in my ordinary daily life that are worth trying to capture an image or video of. This is from a longer video I took in the local NW carpark in October last year. I couldn’t believe this little bird let me get so close. I was only a couple of metres away – but it was so delightful watching this tui getting nectar from the flax.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              Well, my apologies for being a crap , out of touch communicator. Won’t stop me from trying though.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              There’s room for improvement and I think you should take the room.

              I have no idea what you mean in any practical sense. If you explained what you are getting at in some context we might be able to have an interesting conversation but you’re not giving me anything to work with but slogans.

              I don’t mean that as an insult.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              I had a go. probably won’t try again. Nevermind.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              Damn. I posted this in the wrong place above.

              You give up too easily. That’s not what you did with your friend who needed help in the Courts. If you’ve got a vision for a better society and an idea of how we get there, I’d be happy to hear it.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              I most certainly have, Gezza. I don’t think it will fly here. My friend and I are selling (his) nursery-grown trees tomorrow – I hope he sells a lot, it’ll give him such a boost! In any case, we’ll talk ten-to-the-dozen while we wait for customers. My other mate, a young fella with similar tendencies, has just won his first job (after years of trying)! It’s in the nursery industry also and we’re all celebrating his (final/eventual) success. If you knew his history, you’d be proud of what’s transpired – I’m delighted for both of them.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              I most certainly have, Gezza. I don’t think it will fly here.
              Who cares whether it’ll fly here? If it’s a sound and plausible idea there’s always the possiblity of doing a guest post & seeing how it goes. If you don’t think it or you can stand criticism, is it because you don’t really think it’s feasible?

              I was quite intrigued with a video PZ posted a little while back of a discussion about local government and how the provinces (cantons) get to decide how 40% of the tax take is spent n Switzerland – a very successful tri-cultural economy. That would be an interesting idea – Ron Mark was chairing it.

            • Gezza

               /  October 5, 2018

              I think you’re a happy man, robert, fortunate in many ways to be doing what you love to do, and in the frequent company of others with similar loves. I hope your friend sells all trees too & good on him. I can imagine you’ll have a nice day – and I’m also really pleased to hear the young fella has got the job he’s been trying for for so long.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 5, 2018

              Yeah, cheers, Gezza. I have a budget for the Community garden I manage so I know he’ll sell some trees 🙂 In any case, he’s an excellent nurseryman – I already have a number of his trees – he specialises in difficult-to-grow rare NZ natives, growing in my forest garden here. My younger mate just couldn’t get his driver’s license – he suffers dyslexia and intense nervousness when being tested so couldn’t do it, no matter how many (expensive) times he tried. He too, is magic with plants. I have my fingers crossed so tightly…

      • sorethumb

         /  October 6, 2018

        Are you Tangata Whenua or Oppressor Gezza? If so does your interest come under kaitiaki responsibilities?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 6, 2018

          I live next to a stream and I love it.
          Please see a professional at the earliest opportunity.

          Reply
  8. Corky

     /  October 5, 2018

    The fate awaiting many people who shift into those shiny new homes being built. If they are mixed with HNZ homes , your area will become a ghetto within ten years. HNZ tenants should have separate housing areas away from middleclass folk.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/107591426/housing-new-zealand-tenants-made-my-dream-first-home-a-living-nightmare

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 5, 2018

      get yourself into a gated community or compound away from the riff raff….so you don’t get mussolinnied when la revolucion happens.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  October 5, 2018

        By the time the revolution comes most of the revolutionaries will have killed themselves with drugs, alcohol and disease. Always walk around the neighbourhood before you buy a house

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  October 5, 2018

          Tautoko. Also come back on a Friday and Saturday night. Many ferals sleep all day.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  October 5, 2018

            You have told us many times about the goings-on in your street, police arriving in droves, bros doing this and that….

            Reply
            • sorethumb

               /  October 6, 2018

              No empathy Kitty Catkin?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 6, 2018

              I don’t like the overused word empathy, and as I am very dubious about these claims, it’s hard to have much sympathy.

          • PartisanZ

             /  October 5, 2018

            The world will eventually be divided into two types of gated community – renters’ communities with gates to keep the renters in, and owners’ communities with gates to keep the renters out …

            Woe-be-tide the homeless …

            If we’re not going to ask why we have “ferals” in the first place, but just accept they’re a fact of life, it indicates to me they can’t be a new thing? They’ve been here all along … yes?

            So is ‘ferality’ a growing phenomenon? Is there more of it today than in 1970, 1980 … 2015 …?

            If not, when did it peak?

            What might have caused the upsurge …?

            I want evidence-informed policy on this.

            Reply
            • sorethumb

               /  October 5, 2018

              You ought to try living next to noisy neighbours. We are talking about people who are bad neighbours = bad people.

            • Corky

               /  October 5, 2018

              Parti only does philosophy mixed with idealism and a path paved with good intentions..but ultimately leading to ruination.

      • sorethumb

         /  October 5, 2018

        Obviously you don’t live with the riff-raff Blazer.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  October 6, 2018

          I am the riff raff.

          Reply
          • sorethumb

             /  October 6, 2018

            This is the thing about those who scoff at people complaining about neighbours: we do not know your circumstances.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 6, 2018

              ST, I would have sympathy if I thought that it was really happening, but it is always opportune and whenever it happens in town, Corky happens to be there to see it. Either his town/suburb/neighbourhood are the wildest in NZ, or these stories are fantasies. It has happened too often !

              The apartment situation was sorted out, with some of the people being evicted. The majority had given no trouble at all.

  9. lurcher1948

     /  October 5, 2018

    SHUT UP Larry Williams, you sound like a rape apologist,NZME take note, 50% of your listeners are female,but then most NZME females listeners usually screech”SHE DESERVED IT” her dress was 1 mm above her knee and there was a hint of cleavage and damn i love donald…sad

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 5, 2018

      Anyone here from NZME? If so, please note above.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  October 5, 2018

        Hi Gezza,larry the righty angers me, during Tony Vietches downfall his female supporters were screeching,”she probably drove him to kick her in the back”,Females from the right worry me….and most thinking people

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 5, 2018

          i try to limit the amount of time I spend listening to ZB lurch. There are awful lot whiners who ring up. That gets on my nerves.

          Reply
  10. Corky

     /  October 5, 2018

    You mean like that miserable bristle-backed Leftie woman whining in the clip on https://yournz.org/2018/10/05/simon-bridges-tries-comedy/

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 5, 2018

      No. Worse than that.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 5, 2018

      What did you think of Mikey’s effort today?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 5, 2018

        Very good..although he wouldn’t make a Libertarian. A Libertarian resents government involvement in the free market and our private lives. Mikey in reality is an intelligent socialist. That korero on housing today proves that.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 5, 2018

          He’s not a total wally, Mikey. He gets it right sometimes.

          I dunno where today’s jacket came from – I don’t think his missus would be seen dead in that. Anyway, whatever, wherever it came from hopefully he’ll take it back.

          Reply

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