Open Forum – Monday

8 October 2018

Forum

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few, first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria.

Free speech is an important principle here but some people who might pose a risk to the site may be limited.

Next Post
Leave a comment

71 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  October 8, 2018

    Simon Bridge’s
    HOPELESS on AM
    SHREDDED to pieces on TV1
    Jacinda Ardern says keep doing what you are doing Simon, you are doing well

    Reply
  2. Corky

     /  October 8, 2018

    After Pete enlightened me to the state of Stephen Kings politics yesterday, it was with sadness and a tear, that I bagged up my collection of King’s novels and dropped them off at the Lions Club for their annual book sale.

    I would like to think King was never the same after being involved in a hit and run accident.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 8, 2018

      new title coming out …’From John to ‘Sir’-Hit & Run’.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 8, 2018

        That doesn’t sound scary, Blazer. What about ”Barbarians in the Hive.”

        Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  October 8, 2018

      Stephen Kings the man,He wrote a book where the evil one in it was like tRump
      ana marie cox
      Verified account

      @anamariecox
      I look forward to the election of Senator Stephen King from the great state of Maine.
      8 replies 34 retweets 199 likes
      Reply 8 Retweet 34 Like 199 Direct message
      Show this thread

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 8, 2018

        One things for sure, Lurchy. If King’s creative juices dry up, he can come and stay with you for a week to find new inspiration.

        Maybe a horror novel called ” Red Chutney.” Its about a possessed dog who goes crazy during a dog event and holds the arena hostage. It’s up to a bespectacled dog whisperer to fight this evil devil dog and save Aotearoa.

        Reply
  3. Blazer

     /  October 8, 2018

    heard on RNZ that the previous National Govt had been actively soliciting companies in China to invest in bottling water and exporting it from NZ.

    Not bothered by public opinion….and of course no conflicts…

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/301943/'we're-giving-away-that-water-for-nothing

    Reply
    • Pickled Possum

       /  October 8, 2018

      Oravida pays about $500 a year to draw up to 400,000 litres of water a day from the Otakiri Aquifer in Bay of Plenty.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 8, 2018

      It was all over 1ewes at 6 last night. Nobody from the gummint wanted to front IIRC but they reported David Parker had said it happened under National.

      Reply
    • Pickled Possum

       /  October 8, 2018

      Earlier this year, Nongfu Spring was given approval to expand its Otakiri Springs water bottling plant near Whakatāne, with the aim of exporting more than one billion litres of water a year. The decision is currently being appealed through the Environment Court.

      Reply
      • Pickled Possum

         /  October 8, 2018

        The company’s application to the Overseas Investment Office, released under the Official Information Act, said NZTE officials “actively encouraged” it to buy a bottling facility.

        “NZTE indicated that investment in New Zealand water enterprises would be welcome,” the application said.

        Aoteaora Water Action spokesperson Niki Gladding told RNZ she was staggered by NZTE’s efforts behind closed doors given the clear public opposition.

        Reply
        • Pickled Possum

           /  October 8, 2018

          Ms Gladding said she wanted the new government to confirm it had put an end to any initiatives encouraging foreign bottlers to invest in New Zealand.

          New Zealand should not be welcoming bottling companies to it shores, Ms Gladding said.

          Reply
          • Pickled Possum

             /  October 8, 2018

            In its application, Nongfu Spring warned that turning its bid down would likely “adversely affect New Zealand’s image overseas” given the government sought out the investment in the first place.

            Ms Karetai said that was “bullying and bollocks” and New Zealand should not have given in to it.

            Reply
            • PartisanZ

               /  October 8, 2018

              Never mind … We’ll be Nongfuland before we know it …

  4. Pickled Possum

     /  October 8, 2018

    Environment Minister David Parker, along with Minister for Crown/Māori Relations Kelvin Davis and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor launched the Government’s freshwater working programme in Parliament this morning.

    “New rules will be in place by 2020 to stop the degradation of freshwater quality – a new National Policy Statement [NPS] for Freshwater Management and a new National Environmental Standard,” Parker said.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12138731

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  October 8, 2018

      Hey, Cuzzz. This doesn’t look good for hapu/iwi relations..not to mention relations with tauiwi.
      There will be too many chiefs and not enough slaves.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 8, 2018

        Chur..I forgot this:

        ”The work programme also sets out a new approach to the Māori/Crown relationship that will acknowledge Māori interests in fair access to water to develop their land.”

        Read…special privileges above what others get.

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  October 8, 2018

          “Rights” Corky … Rights … not privileges …

          Tino Rangatiratanga rights guaranteed under Article the Second of Te Tiriti o Waitangi.

          Rights that have been largely denied to Maori until recently, so that when they claim and are granted them it looks like ‘special privileges’ to a handful of very privileged people who appear to believe that “privilege” is a zero-sum game …

          Nothing much else apparently qualifies as a zero-sum game?

          Reply
        • Pickled Possum

           /  October 8, 2018

          @Parti I don’t think Corky understands
          Tino Rangatiratanga rights guaranteed under Article the Second of Te Tiriti o Waitangi.

          Too long in the ghetto of her/his mind, doubting ALL Maori
          Judging all Maori by his/her dubious upbringing and Standards
          Also …
          Being a LOUD Dishonest voice against anything Maori on his/her platform of ignorance arrogance and bigotry.
          That House of Cards will soon crumble…

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  October 8, 2018

            Please remind me guys which treaty we are talking about? However, this time around I’m giving you full marks for not mentioning the dishonest term ”partnership.”

            Now, Possum, I get the impression you are a ”born again Mardee.” I meet them all the time. My marae recently received their 1 million dollar payout. Man, you should have seen these deadbeat horis crawl out of the wood work..

            I never once saw them cleaning our Urupa. Never saw them help paint the wharekai. Or turn up for the rededication of the Wharenui.

            Ha, now they all want to serve on the Marae Committee. Fug, we even had two pricks come back from Australia.😃

            Do you think things will be any different over these water rights?

            But I digress. Tell me which flag you marched under as a youngster.

            1- The Treaty is a fraud.
            2- Honour the Treaty ( once the bros learnt of a pending cash cow.)

            The ignorance is all yours..cuz.

            Reply
            • phantom snowflake

               /  October 8, 2018

              Corky, this is hard to say, mainly because it’s so obvious; but in despising Maori generally you are actually despising yourself. You are not some superior breed of Maori. Those ‘cuzzies’ that you so frequently slag off; you’re no better than they are, you’re the same. They’re your reflection, ‘bro’.

            • Corky

               /  October 8, 2018

              Life can be a bitch, PS. I’ll take my lumps. Incidentally, people like me are called plastic tikis in Maoridom. You never criticise the collective if you want a long or happy life. Just ask Alan Duff and Donna Awatere. Although I see Donna has got with the programme and is now reaping the rewards.

      • Pickled Possum

         /  October 8, 2018

        Corky said,
        “This doesn’t look good for hapu/iwi relations..not to mention relations with tauiwi.
        There will be too many chiefs and not enough slaves.”

        Why doesn’t it look good for hapu iwi and tauiwi?

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  October 8, 2018

          Read my post above. Hapu infighting..Iwi boundry disputes. Riled pakeha farmers. Nepotism..bad blood.

          Why do I need to be explaining this to you? This should be par for the course. Are you a dispossessed urban Maori who is ignorant of their culture?

          I ask in all seriousness. I can understand Parti only understanding these issues from an intellectual point of view…but you have no excuse. You should have experienced the reality.

          Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  October 8, 2018

          Don’t ask, Possum, just don’t ask. He only wants an excuse to troll, insult and abuse you with totally unfounded assumptions about you.

          Don’t give him that opportunity.

          Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  October 8, 2018

      The ‘Feds’ view, “Surely, the people most affected by any policy should be the ones with the most input into [it]. Water is an important issue for dairy farmers.”

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/rural/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503348&objectid=11341691

      Wow, wouldn’t our so-called ‘democracy’ be great if we applied that axiom to all policy?

      Reply
      • Pickled Possum

         /  October 8, 2018

        It takes 1,000 litres of water to make 1 litre of milk.

        Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  October 8, 2018

        More success for the Green Party.

        “Cleaning up our rivers
        October 8, 2018 Marama Davidson Freshwater 0
        Our streams, rivers, and lakes are precious to all of us. Freshwater is the lifeblood of our communities. That’s why we’re pleased that the Government is continuing work to deliver on the Green Party’s commitment to clean up our rivers so they’re clean and healthy for our kids and grandkids.

        The Green Party have long championed cleaning up our waterways and protecting them from pollution.

        Russell Norman spent a summer kayaking several awa highlighting the growing pollution. When National slashed the freshwater standards Catherine Delahunty toured the country to restore them, and last year we made rivers a priority in the 2017 election campaign.

        Together, we’ve put cleaning up our rivers on the political agenda. And with the Greens at the heart of Government, we’re making tangible progress.

        As part of our agreement with Labour, we’ve secured prioritising healthy rivers, lakes, and aquifers.

        Because of that, the Government has announced:

        A comprehensive work programme to clean up our most at-risk catchments
        Strengthening the National Policy Statement on freshwater
        A new environmental standard to protect water
        Improvements to the RMA
        Beginning work on catchment-by-catchment allocations
        We’ve still got a long journey ahead to make our rivers healthy and safe to swim in. But, this announcement shows this government is flowing in the right direction. However, a key area we think could be strengthened is by properly recognising that Māori have rangatira and kaitiaki rights over water, as guaranteed by Te Tiriti o Waitangi. We’ll continue to push for this to be honoured.

        Protecting the environment and recognising Māori rights go hand-in-hand.

        Thanks for your ongoing support for the lifeblood of our communities.”

        Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  October 8, 2018

        The Feds say:
        “Despite popular misconceptions, good quality water is essential for dairy farming. Our cows need around 70 litres a day to drink and we’re allowed another 70 litres per cow per day to keep our cowsheds clean and to properly cool that milk.”
        You think that would be motivation enough for them to ensure their industry doesn’t degrade our waterways. But no. So long as they can get clean water in…

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  October 8, 2018

          More than a hundred drownings in NZ per year. Water will never be safe to swim in but it won’t be because of farmers.

          Nobody has ever died from cow pollution in NZ have they? Let’s have some honesty for once from the Greens.

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  October 8, 2018

            I don’t know about deaths Alan but there are a lot of cases of recreational water-borne disease –

            http://www.ehinz.ac.nz/indicators/recreational-water/water-borne-diseases-related-to-recreational-water/

            – and these are from places where people are still willing to swim. Many rivers and streams are unswimmable now … largely because of farming …

            Therefore farmers have a burden of responsibility to bear in this …

            Combined with contaminated drinking water the notification and hospitalisation rate soars, placing a significant burden on our health system …

            “Based on currently available data, two separate estimates of the burden of endemic drinking-waterborne gastro-intestinal disease are ca. 18,000 and 34,000 cases per annum. Preliminary results from work in progress suggest that these are under-estimates.”

            https://www.health.govt.nz/system/…/water-borne-disease-burden-prelim-report-feb07.doc

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 8, 2018

              So of 9500 cases 212 (2%) were found to have had recreational water contact. Sounds justification for a moral panic doesn’t it? Let’s focus on the 2% instead of the 98%>

          • robertguyton

             /  October 8, 2018

            You don’t have to be dead to be …sick…Alan. get real, buddy.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 8, 2018

              2% of the cases, Robert. And that’s speculation anyway – only the cases possibly due to recreational water. How many of those were pools rather than rivers or lakes?

            • PartisanZ

               /  October 8, 2018

              The smaller the river around here … the less likely anyone is to swim in it due almost entirely to farming, along with silting from forestry … although kids do dive off the town’s wharf and swim in the harbour during summer … I wouldn’t …

  5. Kitty Catkin

     /  October 8, 2018

    Witless generalisation on Neighbourly today: There is NO respect for our elderly now.

    That must mean that the writer has none, as I don’t think that she is elderly yet. There was a burglary of someone who was over 90, but one lot of toerags who have no respect for anyone is too small a sample to condemn the entire human race.

    Reply
    • Pickled Possum

       /  October 8, 2018

      Ditto for the Maori race.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  October 8, 2018

        ???

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 8, 2018

          Possum is just making the very valid point that *some people* take any reprehensible crime or act of violence, by a person who is Maori as their excuse to declare, in effect, that it’s because they’re Maori and its part of their culture. When the same principle you refer to above actually applies.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  October 8, 2018

            Yes, but this idiot was making a stupid statement about the entire human race. Except herself, I imagine.Assuming that one incident (and we don’t know that the burglars knew the victim’s age) means that there is no respect for old people at all, anywhere. is not only stupid, it is easily refuted.

            Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  October 8, 2018

            Yes, but one needs examples of people saying it. The YNZ resident bigot does, I know, but who else ? When and where ?

            I don’t see it as the same thing, really. That’s a tangent.

            The idiot who said that there is NO respect for the elderly is now blahing on about elder abuse and how a lot is not reported; totally irrelevant to a burglary which isn’t elder abuse, it’s toerags with no sense of decency.

            Reply
  6. Kitty Catkin

     /  October 8, 2018

    Edifying picture of Trump in the Herald, making a ferocious face (or was he smiling?) and the clenched fist, hand on elbow gesture.

    Perhaps he is unaware that this dates back to Ancient Rome when it meant what it does now. The resemblance between the forearm and the clenched fist and an erect phallus makes its meaning obvious. Who the person or people being told what Trump would like to do to them wasn’t specified.

    Reply
  7. Gezza

     /  October 8, 2018

    Consumers are being fleeced – PM Jacinda Ardern on petrol prices
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has launched a scathing attack on fuel companies, telling reporters she thinks “consumers are being fleeced” at the petrol pump. She has announced that Government will prioritise the passing of a commerce amendment bill, as she is concerned with the high price of petrol.

    “I am hugely disappointed in the level of price that consumers are currently paying at the pump for fuel,” she said at her weekly post-cabinet press conference today.

    Petrol prices are creeping up to $2.50 in some parts of the county.

    Ardern came out swinging, pointing the finger at fuel importers – such as Z Energy, BP, Mobil and Gull – and their margins. “Between 2008 and 2017, the margins importers were taking for themselves more than doubled from 7% to 16%.
    . . .
    National Leader Simon Bridges has been critical of the Government and its fuel taxes which he said is pushing the price of petrol up. “Unlike petrol, talk is cheap. And the Government is a big part of the reason why petrol prices are so high.” (Questioned on this, Jacinda said the government’s new levies were a minimal factor and not contributing that much to the increase – 3.5c I think I heard her say).
    More … (plus video clip)
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12138957

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  October 8, 2018

      The National Party coffers will overflow with petroleum money for fighting the next election.
      What about government taxes?

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  October 8, 2018

        What about government taxes?
        No thanks. Got plenty already.

        Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  October 8, 2018

        “The National Party coffers will overflow with petroleum money for fighting the next election.”

        Dead giveaway that …

        Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  October 8, 2018

        “The National Party coffers will overflow with petroleum money for fighting the next election.”
        Yay! We can all sleep easy in our beds (situation “normal”).

        Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 8, 2018

      Labour screws the exchange rate, adds taxes and then complains about petrol prices. Situation normal.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  October 8, 2018

        Well, let’s just wait and see what the Commerce Commission concludes.

        Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  October 8, 2018

        A dilemma for Righties if ever I saw one though eh?

        “We want and demand lower petrol prices … but wait … We cannot condone the government interfering to fix prices in a “free market”

        One of those cases of policy contradicting one’s own ideology mentioned elsewhere.

        Where does pragmatism fall? Lower prices for ME ME ME? Or a “free market” for ALL OF US.

        Reply
  8. Gezza

     /  October 8, 2018

    Jacinda’s full post Cabinet Press Conference, with Questions & Answers today:

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  October 8, 2018

      That”s a better body mass ratio between the speaker and the sign language person.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  October 8, 2018

        Is it? I was listening to what Jacinda and the reporters were saying. I didn’t really think that was important enuf to pay much attention to.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  October 8, 2018

          Sharpen you observation skills..What goes on off the ball is just as important. But 9.9 % of people never notice.

          Notice how the sign language lady is standing well away from the PM, unlike the big Maori fulla. She also has pigeon toes, or a hip problem.

          The second flag from the right may be different. A light above the PM has blown.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  October 8, 2018

            The key is to observe what you need to at the time. There seemed to be no threat from a blown light bulb or sign language lady. I thought her services were dispensed with rather rudely. Not even a wave or any acknowledgement. Just left to on her own to wander off when it was over. Part of the furniture. You didn’t mention that. Why not?

            Driving – that’s another matter. I watch everything, not just the road, what’s going on on both sides of the road, what’s behind cars, what’s under cars, what traffic’s behind me, in front of me, what are they doing, is there enuf space to pass, are they pulling in, should I – that sort of thing. In the bush it pays to be aware of everything. At a press conference, watching it on video, with a limited field of view? Rather listen to what’s being said – the questions, the answers, and watch the body language and interactions. If there’s an assassination attempt I’m not going to be able to do anything watching it on video.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  October 8, 2018

              PS: Realidy and abilidy got added to my list from listening carefully.

            • Gezza

               /  October 8, 2018

              PPS: https://yournz.org/2018/10/08/open-forum-monday-198/#comment-315597 – that is actually a real grist mill.

            • Corky

               /  October 8, 2018

              ”Just left to on her own to wander off when it was over. Part of the furniture. You didn’t mention that. Why not?”

              Didn’t watch the whole clip. My observations were cursory. Didn’t see that, may not have seen that.

            • Corky

               /  October 8, 2018

              Correction: The light above the PM isn’t working.

              Saying it was blown is an assumption, not an observation. On second thoughts a better assumption would be the light has purposely been left off because it is too bright over the podium.

            • Gezza

               /  October 8, 2018

              Ok. I still haven’t decided whether I should add communidy.

  9. Corky

     /  October 8, 2018

    Interpol chief hands his resignation in, probably under duress. China seems to be cleaning shop. And to think we deal with this repressive country.

    When I posted on this yesterday, Kitty called my post silly. The strange machinations that some peoples minds take

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/07/missing-interpol-chief-sent-wife-danger-message-detained-china/

    Reply
  10. NOEL

     /  October 8, 2018

    So shes going to send it to the Commerce Commision who will come back with the obvious.
    The major driver for the increased fuel cost is not the taxes, there is no evidence of excessive margins but the 11per cent drop in the NZ dollar and overseas prices for crude are obvious factors.

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  October 8, 2018

      Thanks NOEL … Politically speaking its a great move though eh? A ‘popular’ diversion?

      Collectively they’re still playing us for mugs … Which tragically means we are mugs … collectively …

      Reply
  11. PartisanZ

     /  October 8, 2018

    “We conducted an experiment over 12 months whereby we took a product, say ‘Onion Dip’, and progressively reduced the onion flavour from its original 22% down to absolutely nothing … zero onion … and we even changed the percentages in the microscopic nutritional information on the packaging …

    Sales remained steady … and we never received one complaint”

    hppt//:nahhijustmadeitup.con.nz

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s