What is ‘virtue signalling’?

‘Virtue signalling’ has become a commonly used term.

Essentially in common usage this seems to mean praising or displaying your own virtues (as you see them or want them to be seen) without practising what you preach.

Oxford Dictionary:

“the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one’s good character or the moral correctness of one’s position on a particular issue.”

Urban Dictionary:

“To take a conspicuous but essentially useless action ostensibly to support a good cause but actually to show off how much more moral you are than everybody else.”

Urban Dictionary:

“Advocating a political or philosophical position, and/or taking up a public cause, from a position of vanity, for the primary purpose of demonstrating your conformity with fashionable pop culture values.”

Wikipedia:

Virtue signalling is the conspicuous expression of moral values. The term was first used in signalling theory, to describe any behavior that could be used to signal virtue—especially piety among the religious.

In recent years, the term has become more commonly used as a pejorative by commentators to criticize what they regard as empty or superficial support of certain political views, and also used within groups to criticize their own members for valuing appearance over action.

Recent examples in New Zealand:

The Spinoff:  All the things National MPs think are virtue signalling

In an interview with the Spinoff a little over a year ago, then prime minister and National Party leader Bill English was asked whether he considered himself a feminist. Though he believed in equal rights for women, came the reply, he would not want to “confuse people” by using the term. For a man to do so, he suggested, would amount to “virtue signalling”.

The term has been adopted by finger wavers across the spectrum but has been especially embraced by the right. It is deployed to denounce statements regarded as vacuous or disingenuous efforts to demonstrate goodness, without any real substance.

There’s no denying that it captures something real. The trouble is, much in the way its pejorative cousin, “politically correct”, can be substituted via a plugin with the words “being decent to people”, “virtue signalling” sometimes seems like it would be better swapped out for “doing/supporting a good thing”.

Some of the examples given:

  • Men calling themselves feminists is virtue signalling – Bill English
  • Calling for fewer old white men in boardrooms is virtue signalling. – Simon Bridges
  • The Child Poverty Reduction Bill is full of virtue signalling – Paula Bennett
  • The Labour Party’s rhetoric on parental leave is virtue signalling – Simon Bridges
  • Jacinda Ardern’s appeal to Australia on Manus Island is virtue signalling – Simon Bridges
  • Labour and the Greens’ environment pledges are virtue signalling – Scott Simpson
  • The thing that will ultimately bring down the government is virtue-signalling. – Chris Bishop
  • Receiving a petition from Greenpeace is virtue signalling. – Judith Collins
  • Jacinda Ardern’s trip to Europe is virtue signalling. – Judith Collins
  • The government is just generally useless and virtue signalling – Judith Collins
  • Judith Collins is not virtue signalling. – Judith Collins

Lucy Bennett (NZ Herald):  Lauren Southern’s ‘virtue-signalling’ dig at Jacinda Ardern

Controversial author and speaker Lauren Southern has dismissed comments by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on her views as “virtue-signalling nonsense”.

Ardern was asked yesterday for comment on the fact that Southern and speaking partner Stefan Molyneux’s speaking event in Auckland had to be cancelled after the venue pulled out at the last minute.

Ardern said “we are hostile to their views. They are here because there were no grounds to block them being here. That does not mean we welcome their views.

“I think you’ll find from the reaction they’ve had from New Zealanders that their views are not those that are shared by this country and I’m quite proud of that.”

Southern wrote: “A blatant display of the limits of “tolerance” and “diversity”.

“You say you support multiculturalism / different views / diversity – but you can’t even support different opinions being espoused peacefully for one night?

“It’s all virtue signalling nonsense.”

Kyle MacDonald: Is Jacinda Ardern guilty of ‘virtue signalling’?

Language never ceases to amaze me: words and how we use them are the tools of therapy. They most clearly express our thoughts, our ideas and who we are.

Which is why the whole inherent contradiction of modern day, double-think weasel words such as “virtue signalling” – much like its linguistic ancestor “politically correct” – annoy me so much.

In reality it gets hurled at people seen as politically “left” “liberal” or “progressive,” as an insult and to undermine what they are saying or doing.

Most recently our Prime Minister holding her daughter while giving a press interview (after just getting off a plane I might add by way of context) or Green MP Julie-Ann Genter choosing to ride a bicycle to the hospital have both been thrown about as examples of “virtue signalling”.

Of course these two examples also cut to the vacuous heart of the matter. Two women choosing to live their life in line with the values they have actually demonstrated – by way of being elected to parliament – to hold.

By definition that isn’t virtue signalling. Depending upon your point of view it may, or may not, be virtuous, but it’s certainly not signalling.

I’m not sure about that. Politicians use media to signal things all the time. Publicising what they think are their virtues for political purposes leaves them open to being labelled.

The New Zealand Initiative: ON VIRTUE SIGNALLING AND VIRTUE

It would take a humbug not to feel proud seeing our Prime Minister on the world stage last week. Coinciding with the 125th anniversary of New Zealand becoming the first country in the world to grant women the vote, her appearance was a profound affirmation of New Zealand’s openness, diversity and inclusiveness.

Her presence at the United Nations was a triumph, signalling many of our young nation’s greatest virtues.

But signalling virtue is not always the same thing as being virtuous.

The Ministry notes that the Government’s policy objective is to “to show global leadership by demonstrating that New Zealanders can be better off while taking action to reduce our impact on the climate.” It is this virtue signal that led to the offshore exploration ban.

Rather than reducing carbon emissions, as gas supplies decline, MBIE warns of the possible closure of Methanex’s New Zealand plant, resulting in increased global greenhouse gas emissions as methanol production is shifted to less efficient overseas plants.

And far from increasing the prosperity of New Zealanders, the Ministry advises that the policies will likely make New Zealand poorer.

In addition, the Ministry advises of likely broader, unquantified economic impacts on the Taranaki and national economies, along with risks to the security and affordability of the supply of gas and electricity.

Rarely has the discrepancy between virtuous objectives and delivered values been greater than in the offshore exploration ban.

The Prime Minister and the Government should take heed that they will be judged not by the virtues they signal, but by those they deliver.

Unless the Prime Minister and the Government make significant deliveries from the many reports and inquiries they have initiated they are at risk of being labelled as empty virtue signallers come the election campaign in 2020.

110 Comments

  1. Blazer

     /  October 9, 2018

    the right have a habit of ‘macho signalling’…you only need to look at Slater,Brash,Collins ,even Key with his ‘get some guts’…
    Its in their DNA…tough on crime,bene bashing,keeness to participate in conflicts,and the preservation of white male dominated influence.

    • Corky

       /  October 9, 2018

      It’s doing wonders for the American economy. Ours, too, when Key was at the Helm. How’s things looking now under this ”inclusive signalling mob,” Blazer?

      • Blazer

         /  October 9, 2018

        Economy under Key was large scale immigration to keep wages ‘competitive'(low=higher profits),coupled with rampant property speculation to create an aura of growth and prosperity.
        Key knew when to exit…his legacy will take decades to …rectify.

      • lurcher1948

         /  October 9, 2018

        Do nothing,spend nothing,run NZ down,import HEAPS of muslims and asians that worked for Sir Key

        • Corky

           /  October 9, 2018

          It’s not working for Labour. In fact nothing is.

          Petrol prices, Power charges. Increase use of food banks. Business confidence heading South. No money in the kitty for the first budget. That fiscal hole. Thugs and incompetents for MPs. The Maori caucus telling the PM how it will be.

          Damn, I forgot…increased fuel costs means price increases across the board.

          Huntley and Palmers crackers will need to be traded for Pams, Lurchy.

          ps- hold the butter, son.😄

          • Gezza

             /  October 9, 2018

            import HEAPS of Muslims
            Um … Lurchy – it’s Labour and the Greens who want to do that. National was doing its best to quietly keep that number as low as they could get away with.

    • Traveller

       /  October 9, 2018

      Absoloodely to coin Ardern phraseology and prununseeashun.

      In response to ON VIRTUE SIGNALLING AND VIRTUE and Mr Roger Partridge, can I say I must draw the conclusion that I am most definitely one of the “humbug(s) to whom he referred.

  2. robertguyton

     /  October 9, 2018

    “It would take a humbug not to feel proud seeing our Prime Minister on the world stage last week.”
    There was a fair bit of Bah, Humbug! ” around these parts at the time!

    • David

       /  October 9, 2018

      Ardern was great for our tourism industry Robert I think that is grossly unfair of you to intimate she was just virtue signalling.

  3. robertguyton

     /  October 9, 2018

    Simon Bridges, born-again climate change saviour.

  4. robertguyton

     /  October 9, 2018

    The 2018, softer, kinder, virtue-signalling Judith Collins.

    • lurcher1948

       /  October 9, 2018

      Shes thinking”MINE NEARLY MINE PRECIOUS” the crescendo in her head, as Simon stumbles from one crisis to the next, sorry Judith you are not PM material

      • Corky

         /  October 9, 2018

        Give us your pick, Lurchy. Pretend you live in a leafy suburb. The kids go to a decile 9 school. You drive a 100 thou plus SUV.. you also have a holiday crib at The Mount.

        You want to keep this beautiful lifestyle. Who would you entrust to lead the National Party so your aspirations are assured?

        • lurcher1948

           /  October 9, 2018

          You describe me to a T,Corky you must be physic,other than the kids and the $100k truck,

          • Corky

             /  October 9, 2018

            I’ll be at the Mount early November before I go overseas. Give me your address and I’ll come around for a chat. May even take you to Mayor Island to catch some of the best Kingfish in the country. Hell, if it’s an overcast day, we will sneak over to Motiti Island and help ourselves to the bros lavish kaimoana.

        • robertguyton

           /  October 9, 2018

          Jami-Lee Boag? Simon Bennett-Collins?

        • Gezza

           /  October 9, 2018

          Although I’ve said in the past I think they need a male leader, when I scan the National team it’s actually quite a hard job to pick who’d be the best choice and at the moment I think maybe Melissa Lee would be their best bet.
          https://www.national.org.nz/team

          • robertguyton

             /  October 9, 2018

            Agreed. She’s shown she’s a hard-working…hang on!!

          • Corky

             /  October 9, 2018

            Fine looking Asian babe who ticks a few boxes. However, like many Asians she isn’t too flash on this politically correct gig. Don’t know how she would go down with the blue rinse set.

  5. robertguyton

     /  October 9, 2018

    “Unless the Prime Minister and the Government make significant deliveries from the many reports and inquiries they have initiated they are at risk of being labelled as empty virtue signallers…”
    Only by people like you, Pete, determined to portray them that way, no matter what. Some of you took that view even before the coalition Government took their seats in the House.

    • No, I am determined to hold them to account fore all their promises and rhetoric. As I’m sure many voters will do.

      If they deliver on significant successful policies as you seem to be confident of, and don’t disappoint too many people too much, then they have nothing to worry about.

      You seem to have highly contrasting views about holding governments to account depending on whether you support them or not. I think that any government should be credited and criticised when deserved.

      • robertguyton

         /  October 9, 2018

        Well, really Pete, you can’t “hold them to account” at all, you can only publish your opinions about them. I certainly don’t think they will “worry about” your views.

        • Gezza

           /  October 9, 2018

          Well, it’s the voters’ views governments usually start to survey & worry about, and pander to, at election time and this mob won’t be any different from the last in that respect, I suspect. Labour dumped poor Andy when they saw how he was tanking them.

          • robertguyton

             /  October 9, 2018

            Voters is plural, voter, singular.

            • Gezza

               /  October 9, 2018

              Yes I know that. Have you just looked that up?

            • robertguyton

               /  October 9, 2018

              Took a chance, hazarded a guess.

            • david in aus

               /  October 9, 2018

              Gezza is correct. Voters’ is possessive of a plural and the apostrophe comes after the s.

  6. NOEL

     /  October 9, 2018

    Thanks Pete. Have always wondered the true meaning of this new political buzz term.
    Something that’s always been there for pollies. Just didn’t have a name.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  October 9, 2018

      Shakespeare said ‘Assume a virtue if you have it not.’

  7. Gezza

     /  October 9, 2018

    I don’t think this government virtue signals. I think sometimes they really mean what they or Jacinda say. This issue is going to be can they really deliver the outcomes they aspire to and say are affordable without producing unforeseen & unpopular negative consequences for a majority of voters.

    National using the term virtue signalling as often as they seem to has made it something of a meaningless mantra from them. I see them just falling into Opposition mode and opposing everything the government does like Labour did, on principle.

    • robertguyton

       /  October 9, 2018

      Well said.

    • NOEL

       /  October 9, 2018

      This Gummit has to have achieved something tangible by June 2019.
      Time for the talk fests to have been turned into reality.
      If they don’t I’m predicting they will be in opposition in 2020.

    • PDB

       /  October 9, 2018

      Gezza: “I see them just falling into Opposition mode and opposing everything the government does like Labour did, on principle.”

      To be fair this govt has made a balls up of most things thus far hence one could be forgiven to appear to be against everything they do. This is not like Labour in opposition who for instance joined marches against the TPPA when in fact they were in reality pro-TPPA and signed pretty much an identical trade agreement once in govt much to the displeasure of the anti-TPPA crowd.

      • Blazer

         /  October 9, 2018

        ‘pretty much’….just like ‘pretty legal’ eh!

        The opposition needs to come up with policy,actual solutions…something it couldn’t even manage in Govt.

        Example after denial for 9 years…Mr Bridges now accepts there is a housing CRISIS….what can National offer to solve it?

        • PDB

           /  October 9, 2018

          To solve it Labour have chucked a ‘kiwibuild’ banner on housing projects already started by the National govt or by buying houses from developers that were already going to be built – hardly good policy & hardly going to fix anything.

          • Blazer

             /  October 9, 2018

            you have avoided my question,but I fully understand why.

            • PDB

               /  October 9, 2018

              Affordable housing in big cities is a worldwide issue – to think the govt can 100% solve it is silly thinking to start with unless they go really bold and tank the whole economy in the process.

            • Blazer

               /  October 9, 2018

              Key said he had a 4 point plan to address it in 2007….didn’t notice debunking of his plan at anytime.
              He of course had exactly the opposite in…mind.

          • PDB

             /  October 9, 2018

            Just because he had a plan didn’t mean it would work. At least he can take some solace in the fact as a % houses rose higher under Helen Clark’s govt than his own one – even more so considering her % was actually reduced by the start of the GFC whilst he started off at an low point due to the GFC.

      • Gezza

         /  October 9, 2018

        Well one thing I’m reasonably happy with PDB is that the msm – both tv and online newspapers – aren’t giving Jacinda and co any easier a ride than Key or English. I watched her whole post-Cabinet press conference yesterday. Jacinda was out there front-footing fuel price increases that are going to bite them in the bum. Blaming the Fuelcos – but putting off until the future results of an investigation that might turn out to be less helpful to them than they thought.

        Diction issues aside – she’s a master communicator – she handles the press pack well. She’s as smooth as Key ever was in answering by being just “not able to answer that” when it suits her, and just giving a straightforward answer or opinion when it suits her as well.

        Jacindamania & Nevemania are both over for the media and the public though. Now they are perfectly willing to ask her tuff questions and to critically examine her responses and do reports pointing out obvious flaws or suspect statements.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  October 9, 2018

          Her ‘degree’ is in communications. As far as I know, it’s a polytech ‘degree’.

          She’s all talk and no do.

          • Gezza

             /  October 9, 2018

            She said Labour would up benefit payments and pay superannuitants and bennies a Winter Energy payment. She’s done that? Possibly a few other things. Have they axed Partnership Schools or brought them into their own Special Character model yet? They certainly banned the establishment of any new Charter Schools under the old National model. I’m sure there are other things she said they would do that they’ve done.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 9, 2018

              They haven’t upped benefits as far as I know, the energy payment was smaller and for less time than promised.

              They don’t seem to be taking much notice of the parents and pupils for whom charter schools were a great success. Nor are they taking any notice of people whose businesses are being ruined because the parks in the street are now cycle lanes and so on.

              The petrol taxes aren’t very popular ! And it seems that another one’s coming.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 9, 2018

              The maximum upping is 1% and this means that some have gone up by $2 a week and so on….one allowance is up by 64c. The supported living seems to have risen by 15c a week in some cases.

              It’s so little that it wouldn’t be noticeable.

          • phantom snowflake

             /  October 9, 2018

            Hi Kitty. Did you make up the bit about the polytech ‘degree’?? Tut tut! Just for the record: Jacinda Ardern graduated from the University of Waikato in 2001 with a Bachelor of Communication Studies majoring in Politics and Public Relations. Straight As apparently too! Fancy that, an academic heavyweight perhaps, much like yourself. [Meant lightheartedly.]
            https://apps.mngt.waikato.ac.nz/Newsroom/StudentProfile/3724

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 9, 2018

              I had heard & read that it was a polytech ‘degree’.

              I suppose that Waikato is bowing to the inevitable and lowering the standards of what is considered to be academic. ‘All must have prizes.’

            • phantom snowflake

               /  October 9, 2018

              You don’t consider ‘Politics’ and ‘Public Relations’ to be legitimate subjects, Kitty?

  8. phantom snowflake

     /  October 9, 2018

    Also from Urban Dictionary:
    A term that is far too often used to dismiss an opposing opinion that is based on morals, ethics, or ideals, when the introduction of such into a debate could critically undermine one’s stance.

    • PDB

       /  October 9, 2018

      It probably does get overused especially where a simple ‘they are lying’ would do.

  9. lurcher1948

     /  October 9, 2018

    I started this thread PG do you want my bank acct details to deposit the commision

  10. Patzcuaro

     /  October 9, 2018

    The Righties took great glee in accusing the Lefties of virtue signalling until it was pointed out that the Righties were virtue signalling themselves in the process. Since then we have heard a lot few accusations of virtue signalling.

  11. Dave K

     /  October 9, 2018

    Urban dictionary is such a sound reference…….check out their definintion of “Alaskan Firedragon”

  12. PartisanZ

     /  October 9, 2018

    “Virtue Signalling” is the biggest scam to appear on the socio-political landscape in the last several years …

    An intentional or unintended ‘diversionary’ consequence of eDemocracy?

  13. Rickmann

     /  October 9, 2018

    “Thanks Pete. Have always wondered the true meaning of this new political buzz term.
    Something that’s always been there for pollies. Just didn’t have a name.”

    Ah, have you ever heard of hypocrisy ? I know it’s not a hip, new, media buzz word/expression like “unpack” and “drill down” etc., but it seems to fit and has been in use accurately for a long time, biblical in fact.

  14. david in aus

     /  October 9, 2018

    The term Virtue Signalling is not suitable for politicians. That is their business to suggest that they will make the world a better place, despite knowing what that a lot of what they do is unlikely to make a difference. They have the power to affect change, but many of the social issues cannot be solved by their policies but they need to be seen to do something.

    Virtue Signalling should be used in the context of individual behaviour designed to increase one’s status in a group that values such behaviour: A Status Symbol.

    Left wingers are more prone to this due to their value system. Anything that garners sympathy such being a member of an oppressed group or being seen to advocate for it is prized. The results are not so important.

    • david in aus

       /  October 9, 2018

      Right wingers do it too. But in their social circle, the currency of Virtue Signalling is of low value and thus there is little incentive. Very few on the Right cares if you come from an oppressed group, there is a stronger emphasis on the individual and not on group affiliation.

      • Corky

         /  October 9, 2018

        Damn straight, David. I’m giving you my post of the day award. Given many Righties start life in less than favourable circumstances, and build their success from hard work, they have little time for those who trade on being so-called oppressed. Their whinging pisses Righties off.

        • Blazer

           /  October 9, 2018

          bit early…the day is far from over…name some of these ‘many righties’ you describe.

          • Corky

             /  October 9, 2018

            We went through this process before, Blazer. Start with Banks, Jones and Key.

            • Blazer

               /  October 9, 2018

              Banks ..foggy memory,irresponsible hypocrite who got to know the right person in the restaurant business,Jones- cottoned on to property inflation ponzi early in life and his RJI travesty was a defining moment,Key ,handpicked ex forex gambler who has no loyalty to NZ,proven by his affiliation with Krieger and emphasised by his wrecking of the Kiwi Dream and reintroducing knighthoods so he Billy,Talley and Myers could pick one up.

              All became wealthy…all sailed very close to the wind as to legitimacy of M.O and whether or not they are ‘successful’ is …subjective.
              They abandoned any moral virtue early in…life.Banks even refusing paternity of his son.
              Jones youngest kid is by his ex asian housekeeper.
              Key’s backstory is embellished and he sure pulled the ladder up behind him for latter generations.

            • Corky

               /  October 9, 2018

              What has all this got to do with hard work? Seems to me your are just trying to justify your envy syndrome.

            • Blazer

               /  October 9, 2018

              @Corky…exactly…where is the ‘hard work’…FFS!

            • Corky

               /  October 9, 2018

              Ok…if there is no hard work involved…why are socialists poor and struggling? Shouldn’t they all be like Key and Banks..except of course being more ethical.

            • Blazer

               /  October 9, 2018

              your idea of ‘success’ is more dependent on luck than hard work.

              As you know…you can’t have rich people without a whole lot of…poor people.

            • Corky

               /  October 9, 2018

              Lucky..lol. I give up.

          • david in aus

             /  October 9, 2018

            There are some Left-wingers that resent and hate the rich rather than care for the poor. They feel they are the ones that are supposed to be wealthy and the system is stacked against them. These are the malevolent types.

      • Blazer

         /  October 9, 2018

        there is a stronger emphasis on ‘I’m alright Jack…FU…everyman for himself’…in righties…no argument.

        • david in aus

           /  October 9, 2018

          No, treating individuals how they come. Just because you are of one race does not mean they are all the same.
          The Left Wing value of Affirmative Action illustrates this point.
          Affirmative Action assumes if you are Black you are assumed to have more disadvantages than someone who is White or Asian. Thus, Barack Obama’s kids have preference over some White or Asian kids who came from deprived backgrounds. Group affiliation overrides individual evaluation.

    • david in aus

       /  October 9, 2018

      There were elements of Virtue Signalling in the debate around Justice Kavanaugh. People claimed as sexual assault survivors their voice carried more weight. All survivors must be believed, presumably because they are more worthy. They screamed and cried shame at Senators and when told to grow up, responded with incandescent rage. Do these Senators not know they are talking to a sexual assault victim? How dare they.

  15. robertguyton

     /  October 9, 2018

    “All survivors must be believed, presumably because they are more worthy.”
    All survivors are accorded respect for…surviving. Oppressors/exploiters/attackers are quite rightly regarded with caution.

    • david in aus

       /  October 9, 2018

      Respected and Listened to- yes. But not all should be believed. This shouldn’t come under the umbrella of faith and religion.

      Swetnick’s claim is a case in point- no credibility. Once her claims came under the microscope it undercut the whole narrative and pointed out, yes, false claims do exist. People put themselves out there even if they are not victims, there are attention seekers and narcissists everywhere.

      • Gezza

         /  October 9, 2018

        there are attention seekers and narcissists everywhere
        Exactly. They even just recently elected one to President of the United States.

        • david in aus

           /  October 9, 2018

          True. Everybody agrees he is that. He is not very good at hiding it.
          Most politicians have a narcissistic streak- the idealistic ones anyway.

          Trump is an outlier. He is not a dictator or authoritarian wannabe as many of the Left claims. He is too disorganized and chaotic for that. He has the personality of a salesman and promoter: Prone to exaggeration and lies.

  16. Alan Wilkinson

     /  October 9, 2018

    Banning plastic bags is virtue signalling as is NZ pretending anything we do will impact climate change.

    • Blazer

       /  October 9, 2018

      your option of ‘do nothing’ is typical,but expected.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  October 9, 2018

        It isn’t do nothing at all. It is letting people manage their own lives – anathema to the loony Left.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  October 9, 2018

          Bag banning is virtue signalling, while the Greens are not calling for unrecylable plastic to be banned. I have some bookmarks that are coated in something (I assumed that they were plain cardboard) that probably means that they are not able to be recycled.

          There is so much coated paper that doesn’t need to be, like the pew sheets at funerals. I hear no calls to use plain paper for these.

        • Gezza

           /  October 9, 2018

          Don’t be silly Al. Most people are hardly in a position to make their own plastic shopping bags.

          • robertguyton

             /  October 9, 2018

            Gotta start somewhere, Kitty; first, shopping bags, then, the world!
            Why on earth would you want to recycle a perfectly good bookmark? As to coated paper, beeswax makes the best coating and in Europe, serves as food-grade packaging. Come on, NZ – catch up!

            • Gezza

               /  October 9, 2018

              That might depend on the bees? With this coalition they might soon be going on strike for shorter flowers and more honey.

            • I actively embrace many aspects of recycle, upcycle, rid one’s life of plastic. Mine is not a virtue signalling thing it’s more about waste. I hate that we create so damned much of it. My shower does not contain a single bottle. We have bar soap and bar shampoo and that’s it. I make my own soap the old fashioned way and have even used bar shampoo for nearly a decade. It was the bar shampoo, ( originally bought for a skin condition) that got me away from bottles and into soap making.

              Laundry – I use a homemade washing soda, borax plus grated Castile soap for laundry. Dishes wise, I have an old fashioned soap shaker and I use Sunlight Soap as it’s cheaper than making my own. If I have a really greasy pot I add Cloudy Ammonia.

              Nothing to do with virtue signalling as I say. I couldn’t care less what others do. Their choice. Can’t wait until I move up North and can really expand the whole sustainable, self sufficiency way of life.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 9, 2018

              In what container, traveller, does your Cloudy Ammonia arrive?
              Greenies like me are used to having such details pointed out to them whenever they try to show how they’ve made efforts to do the appropriate thing, environment-wise, and be called hypocrites whenever the inevitable “flaw” in their behaviour is discovered. Petty, isn’t it! Good on you, btw, for the efforts you have gone to in the bathroom and laundry. It’s about direction /trend, isn’t it.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 9, 2018

              “…shorter flowers and more honey.” = shorter hours and more money – that’s pretty good, Gezza – original?

            • @RobertGuyton. Cloudy Ammonia

              Plastic. I buy it from Bunnings these days as the supermarket doesn’t seem to carry it these days. Someone said it’s involved in the Meth process but I don’t know if it’s that or it’s such an old fashioned cleaning ingredient.

            • Gezza

               /  October 9, 2018

              “…shorter flowers and more honey.” = shorter hours and more money – that’s pretty good, Gezza – original?

              No robert, unfortunately. I read that one in a Reader’s Digest or wife’s Women’s Mag some years ago & it made me chuckle.

            • Corky

               /  October 9, 2018

              Cloudy Ammonia is really hard to get. I had to go to a out of the way chemical supply shop.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 9, 2018

              “Plastic. I buy it from Bunnings…”
              It’s all but impossible not to be a receiver of plastic containers, one way or another. Even “Bin Inners” who take their bulk beans and rice home in bags or boxes of their own choosing, cause the goods to arrive at the Inn wrapped in plastic.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  October 9, 2018

            Don’t be silly, G, most people are able to buy their plastic shopping bags and don’t have to make them.

        • PartisanZ

           /  October 9, 2018

          @Alan – “It isn’t do nothing at all. It is letting people manage their own lives – anathema to the loony Left.”

          At the minarchist level “letting people manage their own lives” trends very much in the direction of “doing nothing” …

          Unfortunately this opens the way for a societal life – for everyone – ruled by runaway individual wants, desires and material acquisitions – accumulating as inequality – expressed in conspicuous consumption without account for ultimate costs … such as social, cultural and environmental costs …

          In other words: Freedom without Responsibility …

          So maybe its the quest for a more balanced ‘Freedom with Responsibility’ that looks like virtue signalling to the irresponsible?

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  October 9, 2018

            You have a weird idea of freedom if you think banning constitutes responsibility, PZ.

            • Gezza

               /  October 9, 2018

              You’re oversimplifying Alan. PZ’s right. If there are no societally-derived legal contstraints placed on “individual responsibility’ some individuals exercising their freedom to manage their own affairs and bugger anyone else soon start negatively impacting the rights and freedoms of other individuals.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 9, 2018

              The test is whether an individual’s actions significantly harm anyone else. My use of plastic bags doesn’t.

            • Gezza

               /  October 9, 2018

              No the test is whether a collection of individuals actions significantly harm others or the things they consider precious and whether they support banning something that does this as the best way to prevent the harm. It’s all good though. You can vote for a party that proposes to reverse the ban. Or stockpile.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 9, 2018

              Tosh, G. You don’t know what freedom and responsibility are either. Hint: it isn’t being subject to mob rule.

            • Gezza

               /  October 9, 2018

              I’ve moved on Al because you have your blinkers on.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 9, 2018

              You don’t have the freedom to move anywhere, G. You are locked in a societal straitjacket.

            • Gezza

               /  October 9, 2018

            • PartisanZ

               /  October 9, 2018

              You can take the “significantly” out of “significantly harm anyone else” Alan … Harm is harm …

              “The maximum of freedom for each, combined with the maximum regard for the life and freedom of every other” (Warner)

              Thankfully nowadays “other” includes the environment [which I predict will eventually be granted a legal ‘personality’ like the Whanganui River has been].

              There’s actually quite a few things I’d be happy to have banned and not feel my freedom was encroached upon … dangerous & malicious attack dog breeds … Roundup … 1080 … War … various things that do not have maximum regard for the life and freedom of others …

            • PartisanZ

               /  October 9, 2018

              If the financial marketplace won’t sort it out – which we know it won’t – the political marketplace will …

            • Gezza

               /  October 9, 2018

              Fortunately, war is banned. Enforcing the ban is the problem.

            • PartisanZ

               /  October 9, 2018

              Realistically I guess war can’t be banned, or the ban can’t be enforced except by a mandated global security body’s threat of war …

              I’d vote for that.

            • Gezza

               /  October 9, 2018

              We already did. I wouldn’t bother again.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  October 9, 2018

      I’m not quite sure why the article is virtue signalling but you are virtue signalling by highlighting the article.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  October 9, 2018

        And I’m virtue signalling by highlighting your virtue signalling.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  October 9, 2018

        No, I’m signalling contempt for politicians who lied about what the law meant and how it would be applied.

    • PartisanZ

       /  October 9, 2018

      I doubt if there’s a better example of the law acting for the good of all parties involved Alan …

      I find it extraordinary you should think this is “virtue signalling” … Incredible …

      Clearly a complicated family situation where the woman talks about “their children” but the Judge “granted final name suppression, “not for your [the defendant’s] sake” but because the man shared a last name with the child.”

      Who are we to know that this woman hasn’t used the so-called (and hideously Rightie mis-named) ‘anti-smacking law’ to not only save the child’s life, but also improve the man’s parenting skills and anger management, and bond rather than dissolve the family unit?

      … Incredible … Astounding …