Problems for National as J-LR fallout continues

National have a number of problems in the Jami-Lee Ross aftermath (or ongoing attack), so I’ll put some in one thread.

A move by Judith Collins?

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84 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  October 19, 2018

    I reckon the problem that sits behind Simon Bridges’ infuriating habit of frequently obfuscating & never seeming to be able to give a straightforward answer to so many questions in interviews or at press appearances is that he is internally hard-wired to be honest. There is a constant alarm going on inside his head that makes it so difficult for him reconcile being untruthful with his inate honesty he is internally forced to dissemble rather than lie.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 19, 2018

      could be right..although lying by omission and obsfucation comes easily to lawyers.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  October 19, 2018

        That’s true but less likely to happen as a matter of routine with crown prosecutors. Which may be why he chose that particular branch of law. It’s certainly not the most lucrative field of law.

        Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  October 19, 2018

      An honest lawyer?

      Reply
      • Patzcuaro

         /  October 19, 2018

        I don’t think Bridges voice comes across well over radio or TV, compared to Key or Ardern. You have to have a media friendly voice as a leader, Bridges always sounds stilted. I’m not a fan of Ross but his voice comes across better.

        Reply
    • High Flying Duck

       /  October 19, 2018

      Once he knew what he was dealing with he answered the questions fully. He was in a bind in the first interview with tapes still to be released and a number of vague allegations floating. I don’t think he could have answered the donation questions at that time.
      He could have just said he would answer questions once the details were known and left it at that, but stonewalled instead.
      Personally I think he’s been at his best to date (a low bar admittedly) since the tape was released.
      He’ll need to do some very fast talking to calm the storm around his Pugh comments and his rather banal comments about diversity on the list that has the Indian community in a lather. That will be the making or breaking of him.

      Reply
  2. Corky

     /  October 19, 2018

    No guessing why I wanted Bridges gone long ago while others said he should be given a chance. This bs now paves the way for an ethnic party who will take this issue and the way Labour treat Maori as a reason to unite.

    Simple reality. Such a party in my opinion could quite easily grow to hold the balance of power… as long as they can BRIDGE the cultural divide.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 19, 2018

      who will lead this Party…Dr O’Sullivan or…Don Brash?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  October 19, 2018

        Corky, always wise after the event and claiming that HE knew, HE said so…

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 19, 2018

        ”Who will lead this Party…Dr O’Sullivan or…Don Brash?”

        Since when did a part Maori gadfly and a stale white male qualify as ethnic in the politically correct sense?

        My guess will be real Indians and real Chinese. ”Stuff the roundeyes…their country is too good for them to ruin, will be the catch cry.”

        Reply
  3. artcroft

     /  October 19, 2018

    JLR is meant to resign from parliament today. I wonder whether he have a sudden change of heart and decide “for principle’s sake” to stick it out at parliament rather than contest an unwinnable seat.

    Reply
  4. Zedd

     /  October 19, 2018

    Has everyone forgotten that the REAL story here; covering up $100k donation to Natl ?
    The rest is just bluff & bluster.. to move the focus away

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 19, 2018

      I don’t think there’s any real problem with a $100k donation to National. It goes on all the time. The problem is that it seems clear that the law should require all donations to be publicly disclosed, set an upper limit maybe, and that’s it. There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with making donations to political parties but it’s ridiculous to set set rules that encourage them to be hidden by subterfuges. And if people don’t want their donations to be publicly known there’s good reason for the public to need to know.

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  October 19, 2018

        OK to be clear; the report that Bridges instructed it be split up, to avoid the ‘disclosure rules’.. this is actually ILLEGAL & he should be answering this !

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 19, 2018

          But did he? Remember Jami-Lee also said he respects women. I’m no fan of either Bridges or National, but I wouldn’t believe a word of anything he says without full unequivocal corroboration, personally. And splitting it up wouldn’t be a problem if it’s an aggregate donation anyway. I’ll bet National isn’t the only organisation to do this.

          Reply
        • Gerrit

           /  October 19, 2018

          Crap. The recording is quite clear Bridges did not say anything of the sort. He reminded Ross to liaison with management re the donations. It would seem that he at that time did not know (as in not being told by Ross) that the $100K was a single lump sum or a combination of donations.

          The text from Hamilton (in Nationals management) are quite clear that unless the names and addresses of the donators were provided, Ross could send the money back where he solicited them from.

          Reply
      • “I don’t think there’s any real problem with a $100k donation to National. It goes on all the time.”

        Classic.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 19, 2018

          With all parties.

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  October 19, 2018

            All parties. You have some evidence for that claim, of course?

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  October 19, 2018

              Gezza said:
              “And splitting it up wouldn’t be a problem if it’s an aggregate donation anyway. I’ll bet National isn’t the only organisation to do this.”

            • Gezza

               /  October 19, 2018

              No. But I am sure donations from organisations to whom the party and candidate limits are explained are aware that they are able to be legitimately split between members and between friends or family members. I haven’t seen any returns from parties of donations made outside of election campaigns.

      • robertguyton

         /  October 19, 2018

        Gerrit said:
        “The Green Party: $283,835 from the estate of Elizabeth Riddoch, August 2016”
        There ya go, Gezza; a chance to show how the Greens split it up, claiming it was an aggregate. “…it’s ridiculous to set set rules that encourage them to be hidden by subterfuges.” Really? Ridiculous to have rules around donations?”Encourages them”???

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 19, 2018

          I said “it’s ridiculous to set rules that encourage them to be hidden by subterfuges”. I accept that you have comprehension problems caused by your biases but don’t come the raw kumara and take things I say on their own completely out of context like that with me robert.

          At least so far only one Party has had a benefit fraudster as a leader.

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  October 19, 2018

            You believe the rules encourage the hiding of donations by subterfuge? Blaming the rules for the underhand behaviour of some political parties around donations???
            I’m amazed concerned to read that. Blaming the rules.
            Your swipe at Metiria (again) is mystifying. Do you believe it necessary to try to score a hit on The Greens every time I say something about National?
            Why?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  October 19, 2018

              1. Yes.
              2. Yes, where known loopholes exist they are exploited.
              3. No. It depends. It might only happen when you say something snarky that irritates me.
              4. If I think you are accusing people in other parties of dishonesty, & by implication that your favourite party has only honest people – then I like to remind you that dishonesty exists in other parties and in some cases it’s proven.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 19, 2018

              National’s (deservedly) having the thumbscrews tightened here, Gezza. “Balancing” that criticism by taking unnecessary potshots at the Greens is…feeble. In any case, what was the “snarky” thing I said about National? Please paste in the quote to support your claim.

            • Gezza

               /  October 19, 2018

              I am not spending further time on this particular discussion robert. You selectively quoted me out of context. Don’t. I have now moved on and am doing other stuff.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 19, 2018

              Hat-tip HFD
              “From a Stuff article a while ago:

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95952896/show-us-the-money-donors-bankrolling-greens-lead-way-in-fronting-up-to-public

              “The Greens supported a greater transparency in political donations.

              Green Party leader James Shaw said the $15,000 threshold for disclosure was too high and the public should be consulted on a new, lower threshold.

              The party has previously put that number at $1000.

              “We’d like to see more transparency around political donations. That needs to happen for all political parties at the same time, so none are disadvantaged.”

              “I can’t see any good reason why disclosure of big donations can’t happen faster too, like week-to-week.”

              The Greens publicly disclose where most of their money comes from, but the big parties keep it under wraps. 83 per cent ($8.7 million over six years) of the money donated to National is from anonymous donors, and 80 per cent ($2.8m) of that donated to Labour.

              In the past the Green party turned down donations from the oil and gas industry as they didn’t fit with the party’s values, Shaw said. “

            • PDB

               /  October 19, 2018

    • Gerrit

       /  October 19, 2018

      Why is the $100K such a problem?

      Every political party takes donations

      The Green Party: $283,835 from the estate of Elizabeth Riddoch, August 2016

      • National: $150,000 from Inner Mongolia Rider Horse Industry, May 2017

      • The Opportunities Party: $150,000 from Gareth Morgan, April 2017

      • Act: $100,000 from Alan Gibbs, May 2017

      • Labour: $100,000 from Robert Smellie QC, May 2017

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11877620

      E Tu (previously the EPMU and the Service and Food Workers unions) has announced it will donate $120,000 to Labour and $30,000 to the Greens, roughly the same amounts given ahead of the 2014 election.

      Reply
  5. Sunny

     /  October 19, 2018

    Undoubtedly crass phone conversation, as almost everyone has when they think it’s private with someone they trust. I think it’s a problem that someone can record and exploit what they believed to be a private conversation like this. But to be fair Sudvhir Singh’s twitter describes him as tackling policy with Gen. Zero (aka young greens). So obviously the opposition are taking the opportunity to put the boot in while the goings good.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  October 19, 2018

      I overheard a conversation about why a candidate had been chosen (I was quite close to the people and they would have seen me) Like this, it was one that was private (I have been around the party so long that they may have taken it for granted that I wouldn’t repeat anything I heard) This was the people who did the selection. It would have sounded quite different if it had been repeated and replayed, as many conversations that we all have would.

      Reply
  6. artcroft

     /  October 19, 2018

    National’s polling numbers will remain unchanged. There no other place for the intelligent voter to go.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 19, 2018

      I thought National was a ‘broad church’.

      Btw how intelligent do you have to be to not vote for…National?

      Reply
      • High Flying Duck

         /  October 19, 2018

        Put it this way – you’re a long long way from being a National voter.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  October 19, 2018

          must be more intelligent than I…thought!

          Poor Simon 7 months in a leaky boat.
          The Nats are all rowing in …different directions…its a proper….cox …up.

          Reply
  7. Patzcuaro

     /  October 19, 2018
    Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  October 19, 2018

      Our neighbours having ruled the roost regarding political chicanery are fighting back to regain the centre of attention.

      Reply
  8. Gezza

     /  October 19, 2018


    Goodfellow is hardly being forthcoming about his role, saying only that “any issues that we were aware of that were raised, were dealt with at the time” – a statement that hardly seems adequate.

    The Ross affair isn’t the first time questions have been raised about the judgment of [Peter] Goodfellow and the party hierarchy, or their tendencies towards secrecy.

    In the case of former National MP Todd Barclay, who resigned following a Newsroom investigation into allegations he illegally recorded a staff member, Goodfellow and National’s board allowed his re-selection for Clutha-Southland despite being aware of a litany of complaints about his conduct.

    In the case of National MP Dr Jian Yang’s ties to Chinese military intelligence – another Newsroom investigation – it was revealed that Goodfellow had handpicked the MP for its list in 2011.

    After Newsroom’s investigation was published, the party president said Yang’s background had been vetted by public relations firm Saunders Unsworth – a claim later refuted by the company.

    While concerns were expressed in each of those cases, it is Goodfellow’s role in the Ross saga which seems particularly concerning: not only did he look the other way, helping with the non-disclosure agreement meant the MP could continue to operate from a position of power.
    More…
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107963986/national-officials-must-answer-for-jamilee-ross-coverup

    He’ll have to go ! 😡

    Who else have they got? 😳

    Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  October 19, 2018

      Cam?

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 19, 2018

      ‘ the party president said Yang’s background had been vetted by public relations firm Saunders Unsworth – a claim later refuted by the company.’

      a rotten fish from the head…down.

      Reply
      • High Flying Duck

         /  October 19, 2018

        That is quite unbelievable really and shows the lack of follow up in so many things in NZ – The company refutes the statement of the party president and so…nothing.

        Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  October 19, 2018

      Is Goodfellows “Tory” look real or satirical (was it super-hero costume day or something?)

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 19, 2018

      Is this the case where the victim said Goodfellow did all he could and she had no beef with the party or Goodfellow?

      Reply
  9. duperez

     /  October 19, 2018

    Hooton rubbishes the Greens as they’re “essentially an arm of the multinational Greenpeace.” That means whatever you want it to mean to whatever extent. It’s an easy throw away line to create sinister implications.

    Hooton, who essentially is an arm of universal non-thinking, biased groups.

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  October 19, 2018

      You left out (funny that…) that Hooton also mentions in the same tweet that the Greens also voted for the ‘undemocratic’ waka jumping bill so hard for them to now say they are the ‘preservers of democracy’ regarding donations. Especially when also considering that taxpayer funded general election campaigns would be of great personal benefit to the party and their MP’s who are currently forced by their party to give a % of their salaries to the Green party election fund.

      Reply
      • Griff.

         /  October 19, 2018

        ROFL
        Green =concerned about the ecology.
        The Green party is Green.
        Green piece is Green.
        “The Green party is essentially an arm of the multinational Greenpeace”
        non sequitur
        It does not follow.
        The Green party is not a arm of Green Piece just because they share a philosophy.
        Just as National is right wing and so is the GOP does not mean national is a branch of the GOP.

        Logic mate something you lack.

        Reply
        • High Flying Duck

           /  October 19, 2018

          It’s the Greens (& Greenpeace) who lack the logic…mate.

          https://www.theguardian.com/science/political-science/2013/jul/30/green-movement-science

          Reply
          • Griff.

             /  October 19, 2018

            More dribbling from the right wing
            hello duck
            The gop is full of god whaked nutcases who think trump is a gift from god .
            The last national party leader claims to eat the flesh and blood of a man zombie dead for 2000 years magically transmogrifyed from wafers and wine.
            Now that is what I called anti science.
            As you are a Right wing national supporter by your fucked up logic you also believe a chant converts wine and wafers in flesh and blood that rotted away 2000 years ago…..and then eats it .

            Reply
            • High Flying Duck

               /  October 19, 2018

              The Guardian is a left wing bastion there Griff. Pull your head out of your ad-hom arse and breathe in a big whiff of reality for a change.
              Where you get any religious implication from is beyond me (I’m atheist if you must know) – does it replace your inability to dispute the Luddite tendencies of the lunatic greens?

            • Griff.

               /  October 19, 2018

              But duck you must be a god whacked loony because some National supporters are god whacked loons.

              Cant connect the dots can you son.
              Here is a hint not all in the green party are anti science nut jobs.
              In fact far more right wing commentators reject science because of their ideology and Luddite leanings .

              never mind …..go eat some zombie bits and it will all be revealed .

        • PDB

           /  October 19, 2018

          Griff: “Green piece is Green”

          Is that like your extra small ‘codpiece’?

          Shot your load early there Griff – where do I say anything about Greenpeace/The Greens being one and the same? Or was that Hooton saying that in his tweet whereby I was interested in his waka-jumping statement which I talk exclusively about in the post that you replied to me?

          Is it ‘logical’ for you to attack someone for something they didn’t say whilst ignoring what they actually said? Of course you are not interested in what anybody else has to say as you already ‘know it all’.

          Back to looking at yourself in the mirror I think….and pouting.

          Reply
          • Griff.

             /  October 19, 2018

            You left out (funny that…) that Hooton also mentions in the same tweet that the Greens also voted for the ‘undemocratic’ waka jumping bill so hard for them to now say they are the ‘preservers of democracy’ regarding donations.

            Waka jumping is not the same as donations for gain not even close.
            non sequitur
            One is about enforcing the party system we have the other is about funding for favor and buying places on the party list .

            Again
            logic aint your strong point……

            As to the rest.
            Dribbling again sonny.
            You posted a twits tweet above and now reject parts of it .
            Should have rejected the link between Greenpeace and the Greens first else you are changing your line after the fact when the fuckwittery implicate in your c&p is pointed out by two others

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  October 19, 2018

              You’re such a sad case Griff – you directly answered my post that spoke 100% about the waka jumping hypocrisy of the Greens that reckon they’re here to “preserve our democracy” by attacking me about Greens/Greenpeace being one and the same – a subject I haven’t given an opinion upon as it had zero to do with the point I was making.

              Being a man of such astounding abilities I would’ve thought mind-reading was one of them – obviously not.

            • PDB

               /  October 19, 2018

              Griff: “Waka jumping is not the same as donations for gain not even close.
              non sequitur
              One is about enforcing the party system we have the other is about funding for favor and buying places on the party list .”

              Ah I see…so you’re saying the Greens have various degrees of how they ‘preserve our democracy’? Sometimes they go the whole hog and defend it to the death whilst at other times where it’s not quite as damaging they just let it ‘slide on by’. So unimportant was the waka jumping bill in fact Sue Bradford stated the Green party was betraying its members by voting for it & a group of 18 legal academics and political scientists sent a submission calling it an “undesirable and harmful” law which could damage New Zealand’s democracy.

            • Griff.

               /  October 19, 2018

              Did I just hear right ?
              Seems Ross is staying on
              What was that about waka jumping ?
              Just think what he can do to National under house privilege .
              Never mind .
              You still have the logic ability of a retarded four year old .

            • PDB

               /  October 19, 2018

              Pretty much sums you up Griff – when your non-argument runs out you always have your abuse remaining….and in this particular case a squirrel named JLR.

            • Griff.

               /  October 19, 2018

              ROFL
              yesss
              Squirrel!
              Your projection is showing yet again my poor funny little friend.
              National has been caught selling list seats for money to dodgy Chinese
              including a communist party operative and hiding the source of the money.
              You want to go on about the greens and waka jumping a dead topic from long ago .
              Wanna bet you will be upset Ross is still there in a few months?

            • PDB

               /  October 19, 2018

              Griff: “National has been caught selling list seats for money to dodgy Chinese including a communist party operative and hiding the source of the money.”

              Your proof that this is 100% true? Of course you have none as at this stage there isn’t any. So much for your posts always being based in fact. Much like your high opinions of yourself that is all make-believe.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 19, 2018

              PDB – good man, keep it up, there’s precious little else you can do as you watch your team erupt in flames from a fire lit at their heart (if it could be said they ever had one) – your flailing out at the Greens is … understandable and we’ll absorb your anger and frustration at the evisceration of your team and smile benignly as you desperately try to sheet blame … anywhere, somewhere…

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 19, 2018

              @Robert, I think you are kidding yourself. A minority of one evicerated himself and will be replaced by someone better shortly.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 19, 2018

              That’s good Alan – hold onto that thought…

              “There is serious rot in NZ politics, and the way the National Party undertakes it’s activity. There is a greater responsibility to continue exposing the National Party’s activity and the way the leadership conducts itself.

              I have not submitted a resignation letter to the Speaker. I intended to do that today. I will instead stay on as an MP to continue speaking out about the internal operations of the National Party. I will no doubt continue being called a liar by Simon Bridges and the National Party. That’s a very good reason to keep telling the truth that I have witnessed first hand since 2011.”

              Since 2011.
              Wow.
              This is getting thermonuclear.

              https://mobile.twitter.com/jamileeross

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 19, 2018

              Since he doesn’t seem to have managed any truth to date, Robert, I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.

      • duperez

         /  October 19, 2018

        Sorry for not mentioning that bit. I’ll start again:

        Hooton who rubbishes the Greens, as they’re “essentially an arm of the multinational Greenpeace,” is a very intelligent, clever, nice man. His wisdom is such that everything he says is sage, everything he says is Right.

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  October 19, 2018

          But is he ‘half-right’ in that tweet as you keep avoiding addressing the ‘waka-jumping’ portion of his tweet that you criticise?

          Reply
  10. Loki

     /  October 19, 2018

    A few of us have spoken this week and all agree life is so much better without these human wrecking balls in our lives.
    Slater is still furiously trying to convince his last few readers that he still has some juice threatening to expose people if they don’t back off JLR.
    This week has been about the leaker trying to avoid his wife believing he is a monster and install the vote repellant Judith Collins into the leadership.
    It has caused damage but Bridges is safe.
    On the other hand the member for Botany has rendered himself unemployable.
    Assuming he isn’t just another weasel liar and doesn’t resign today.
    Anybody who has ever communicated via text, email or by phone with any of these scumbags can probably believe everything is held for use when it rains.
    I can think of a labour minister and a National mp that are probably regretting ever working with the Lusk Slater axis of shite.

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  October 19, 2018

      “It has caused damage but Bridges is safe.”

      He was going to be toast prior to the next election and I think this will hurt him regardless of where the fault lies and actually speed up that process. Bridges is essentially a dead man walking. No doubt JLR has other taped conversations including various National MP’s and what they really think of Bridges as leader.

      Reply
      • Loki

         /  October 19, 2018

        You could be right, but who do they install?
        Anybody with a link to Slater is too risky.
        That eliminates Mark Mitchell, which is a shame as he seems a decent sort.
        And would exclude Collins as well as the fact that most of the country hates her.
        This is all because a monster didn’t get the chief whips salary and his personal behaviour caught up with him.
        And it is now 4.30 pm Friday in NZ and still no resignation from the member for Botany.

        Reply
      • High Flying Duck

         /  October 19, 2018

        Bridges, after a shaky start, actually started acting more forcefully, speaking with more clarity and finally becoming more leader-like this week (although Hooten calling it “Prime ministerial” was a bit too much. The party will get an injunction against any more tapes I presume, so hopefully that is stemmed.
        As I said in an above post, this disaster is the crucible that will either make or break Simon Bridges as a true leader as he is going to have to stamp his authority and show some steel to get through it.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  October 19, 2018

          Bridges has got big…future.

          Reply
        • PDB

           /  October 19, 2018

          Bridges isn’t cut out to be a leader regardless of how he comes through this. Being good mates with JLR before JLR knifed him won’t help the public perception that he is guilty of something by association even if he isn’t. Inside the party Bridges might be seen as the one who let the Trojan horse through the front gate.

          @Loki: To be fair the other National party leadership candidates have performed better & looked more convincing on the public stage than Bridges since he was made leader. Any change may be better.

          Reply
  11. robertguyton

     /  October 19, 2018

    TS
    “There is serious rot in NZ politics, and the way the National Party undertakes it’s activity. There is a greater responsibility to continue exposing the National Party’s activity and the way the leadership conducts itself.

    I have not submitted a resignation letter to the Speaker. I intended to do that today. I will instead stay on as an MP to continue speaking out about the internal operations of the National Party. I will no doubt continue being called a liar by Simon Bridges and the National Party. That’s a very good reason to keep telling the truth that I have witnessed first hand since 2011.”

    Since 2011.
    Wow.
    This is getting thermonuclear.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jamileeross

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 19, 2018

      Given his disfunctional relationship with the truth it is only a matter of time before he winds up on the sharp end of a defamation suit. Twitter is not privileged. And if he slanders people from Parliament he will likely be ordered out of the House and hauled up before the Privileges Committee.

      Reply

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