Open Forum – Sunday

21 October 2018

Forum

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

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48 Comments

  1. “9.1.2.1.1
    20 October 2018 at 10:07 pm
    The identity of the leaker into Bridges expenses was inconclusive. There now has to be a further process to either confirm it was JLR or someone else. Or to concede and drop the issue.

    Using an affair against someone is blackmail. Two things could be done about inappropriate behaviour, a police complaint or a a work dispute complaint. Had this initially occurred something constructive would have happened. Instead inappropriate behaviour went unchecked and there were no proper consequences.

    As for the 100k donation the police are currently investigating and will need to verify who and what was donated.”

    Reply
  2. robertguyton

     /  October 21, 2018

    ““There’s some rotten, awful things that have happened in the National Party over a long period of time. They should be exposed.” “I think I have a responsibility to keep doing that.””
    JLR

    Reply
  3. robertguyton

     /  October 21, 2018

    “The NZ National Party has been going through some ructions lately, not to put too fine a point on it. An MP “gone rogue”, secret tapes, threats of assault and other allegations of a more salacious nature, a Party that had purportedly facilitated a so-called “Gentlemens Agreement” to hide these (then a promotion for the person responsible), the Leader referring to colleagues on tape as “fucking useless”, working out which ethnicity was more valuable than another to act either as MP’s for the Party and / or for a range of attack advertisements against the Government… is this or should this simply be considered “business as usual” in politics… or just the National Party?”
    https://exhalantblog.wordpress.com/2018/10/19/bad-systems-and-corrupted-process-nationals-current-problems-simply-highlighted-other-bigger-issues-in-nz/

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 21, 2018

      working out which ethnicity was more valuable than another to act … as MP’s for the Party …is this or should this simply be considered “business as usual” in politics
      Absolutely. No question. Happens in all parties.

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 21, 2018

      Whoever writes that stuff has far too much time on their hands.

      Reply
  4. robertguyton

     /  October 21, 2018

    “So, based on what I’ve seen so far, I actually hope Bridges survives this onslaught and remains National’s leader. I hope that he and his party are soon able to return to arguing for their view of what New Zealand ought to be. I then hope they lose those arguments, because I disagree with them on many issues in a quite fundamental way.
    But I want them to lose on the arguments, not because of tactics designed to do no more than “wreck” someone.””
    ibid

    Reply
  5. robertguyton

     /  October 21, 2018

    ““The High Commissioner of India in New Zealand says he’s deeply hurt and disappointed by comments from Jami-Lee Ross and Simon Bridges that Chinese MPs are more valuable than Indian MPs.”
    …as did Gisborne Mayor Meng Foon in this article…
    Foon says members of the Chinese community aren’t pleased.
    “They’re not gutted, but they are disappointed. They are disappointed that that’s how the National Party leadership thinks.””

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  October 21, 2018

      For such intelligent cultures I’m surprised they are surprised National think that way, Indians and Chinese are useful idiots for both National and Labour. Labour also add Maori to that list.

      The problem here isn’t really cultural, it’s a universal naivety that our rulers have our best interests at heart. Everyone has to believe this falsehood to make the system work.

      Oh, and a message for Round Eyes. It would make your hair curl if you knew what they think of us in private. Put it this way…they think we and Lurchy’s dog, Red, have a lot in common.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  October 21, 2018

        There are 60,000,000 Chinese in the world, It’s impossible that they all think alike on anything. They wouldn’t marry white people if they considered them to be dogs; I know several marriages where one partner is Chinese and the other not. One of my bridesmaids was Maori and her husband Chinese; the other was Chinese (third generation Kiwi) and her husband Pakeha.

        I doubt very much if anyone in National would be proposing idiots for MPs. That would be counter-productive, There are Asian National MPs who are hardly idiots. The idea that National considers these people to be idiots is ridiculous.

        There may be some Chinese who use the insulting Round Eyes expression; after all, a few rednecks still talk about ‘Slit Eyes’. But it’s very unlikely that most or many Chinese are that ignorant, just as most Pakehas are not ignorant rednecks.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  October 21, 2018

          RED – handsome, clever, loyal, a great gymnast, obeys his mother and father at once….

          Reply
  6. robertguyton

     /  October 21, 2018

    “In the Meka Whaitiri case, they certainly didn’t do what National did in the case of Ross in particular, which was firstly to find a way to bury it quickly so it didn’t hit the public, strike a dubious hush deal with the victims involved, and secondly, actually promote the perpetrator of the aggression.
    In neither case did they simply sit on their hands and wait it out, hoping either one would simply never come to light as National had obviously done multiple times with Ross.”

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 21, 2018

      In the Meka Whaitiri case, they certainly didn’t do what National did in the case of Ross in particular, which was firstly to find a way to bury it quickly so it didn’t hit the public, strike a dubious hush deal with the victims involved, and secondly, actually promote the perpetrator of the aggression

      Um … it had already gone public. Within hours it was being reported there was famous previous form that Helen Clark had had to get involved with to put an end to when she worked for Parakura Horomia. and that there were rumours of frequent bullying behaviour and despite these she’d been promoted.

      Reply
  7. robertguyton

     /  October 21, 2018

    “An analysis of electoral finance declarations shows more than 80 per cent of donations to National Party candidates were channelled through party headquarters in a loophole described as akin to legal “laundering”.
    National’s heavy reliance on funding candidates with donations from the party – shown in a Herald study to account for more than $1m out of $1.2m raised by their candidates for the 2014 general election – was a “striking use of electoral law that appears to be laundering the money”, said Otago University political science lecturer Bryce Edwards.”

    Reply
  8. robertguyton

     /  October 21, 2018

    “It’s not the actions of a so-called “Labour plant”, it is also not the actions of a supposedly “lone wolf” rogue MP, it in fact has arisen out of a multiple of situations that have not only been tolerated at the highest level, but have been shuttered up and kept out of the knowledge of the public, indeed many of its own voters, for reasons of political expediency alone, that attempt to project the “stable” Party. Moreover, one that never ceases to tell voters how morally upright, law abiding and “fair” they are too.”
    (Pete – I’ve broken this article up into smaller “packets” – you know, the way National did with the Chinese $100 000 donation 🙂

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 21, 2018

      Moreover, one that never ceases to tell voters how morally upright, law abiding and “fair” they are too.

      They never made Jami-Lee co leader though. Like the Greens who do the same thing did. And Jami-Lee’s just another one that was stupid enuf to go public with unlawful behaviour like Metiria in an inconceivably narcissistic & stupid act of self-immolation intended to attack the government that instead trashed their party’s & family’s reputations and overnight turned a rapidly rising Party trajectory in the polls (at Labour’s expense) into a nosedive.

      Reply
  9. Ray

     /  October 21, 2018

    While I expect Robert and people of his ilk to try to change the leader of the opposition with a steady drip of statements claiming the Party unhappy with him, even though there is only one MP actually doing any undermining.
    This is of course just a policy of trying to take the voting public’s eye off the shambles of the Coalition trying to run the country, which as I said just part of the game.
    What I object to is the media pushing the same line with no evidence and as far as I can see just doing it as a way to make noise and sell papers
    If this continues we will go down the Australian path where just the call of a “spill” seems enough to cause one, will no one have a thought for those poorly paid Parliamentary cleaners, blood stains are so hard to get off marble.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 21, 2018

      guess what Ray…no one wants to change Nationals leadership….apart from National…supporters!(excl you)

      Reply
  10. robertguyton

     /  October 21, 2018

    I’m not trying to change the Leader of the Opposition, Ray. I’m trying to help with the broader understanding of what’s wrong with the behaviours in and around the National Party.

    Reply
    • Ray

       /  October 21, 2018

      That is very kind of you Robert but with your understanding and contacts in the Green Party wouldn’t a look at why the Greens can barely break the 5% vote and have a preponderance of one sex in leadership positions (despite their Constitutional demanding equality) be a better use of your time.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  October 21, 2018

        feeble Ray…you’ll have to do alot better.

        Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  October 21, 2018

        The Greens aren’t embroiled in scandals right now, Ray. National though, is, hence our shared interest:
        “When the National Party has become little more than a front for Chinese Business interests with an alleged spy inside their caucus and Jenny Shipley, Don Brash, Ruth Richardson and Chris Tremain Director’s of the China Construction Bank, Judith Collins interaction with Chinese Officials to help her husbands Chinese Company, Oravida, to gain more Chinese money and Maurice Williamson’s love affair with Donghua Liu seeing him become Liu’s personal handyman when doing up Liu’s batch and heavying the Police to drop domestic violence charges it is more than fair to start demanding far more scrutiny and public debate towards China’s power over our economy and political system, especially when the academic who is highlighting this influence is being intimated and having her house broken into by Chinese agents.”

        Read the whole article here.

        https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/10/21/why-the-media-and-politicians-are-so-silent-on-chinese-influence-in-nz-and-what-you-need-to-do/

        Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  October 21, 2018

          Go you good thing! Keep banging this drum

          I dont think there is anything you or martyn can do to stop the inevitable transfer of sovereignty robert because the chinese are all over the nats and greens have no real influence

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  October 21, 2018

            Therefore, National’s influence must be reduced and diminished …

            If enough people call for a Commission of Inquiry into electoral finance, interference and fraud, surely there is hope it can happen …?

            Reply
  11. Corky

     /  October 21, 2018

    Israel apparently carried out a nuclear test in South Africa forty years ago. Why there is angst over this I don’t know. Worry about Muslim countries, and that North Korean nut case, both who may have/have nuclear capabilities.

    The incident was called ”The Vela Incident.”

    https://thebulletin.org/2015/09/flash-from-the-past-why-an-apparent-israeli-nuclear-test-in-1979-matters-today/

    Reply
    • NOEL

       /  October 21, 2018

      Interesting opinion

      You can be pretty sure the 1979 Vela incident was a joint Israeli-South African nuclear test.

      What Israel actually wanted was the US software to simulate nuclear explosions of new weapon designs. They’d asked for the software but didn’t get it.

      So, together with South Africa for logistical support, they tested a small nuclear weapon in a place only US satellites could pick up. This was a clear message: give us the software or we’ll have to do more test. They got the software.

      The Israelis had assumed the Carter Administration would keep the test a secret, but they didn’t.”

      Reply
  12. PartisanZ

     /  October 21, 2018

    Speaking of Jenny Shipley … Here she is in Court, the highest profile defendant in the Mainzeal case …

    “The company’s liquidators hope to get up to $75 million for creditors from Dame Jenny and the other directors, who include former Brierleys boss Sir Paul Collins and Richard Yan, head of China-based Mainzeal parent company Richina.”

    Not to put too finer point on it … “Mainzeal parent company Richina” …

    “Yan is first defendant in the case; a director of Mainzeal as well as Richina. And Dame Jenny was on the board of Richina as well as chair of Mainzeal, so it’s fair to assume Yan and Burton Shipley spent a bit of time in each other’s company.”

    ‘The courtroom drama starring a former PM’ – Newsroom

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/16/278702/courtroom-drama-starring-former-pm

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 21, 2018

      Shipleys defence that they were confident Richina would finance Mainzeal when required is absolutely laughable.
      Former Auck Grammar whiz kid Yan has shorn a shrek sized …sheep…and made a bale of money…for Richard Yan.

      Reply
  13. sorethumb

     /  October 21, 2018

    Christchurch has a Maori themed library. When the first settlers arrived there were fewer than 500 Maori in the whole of Canterbury. In the 1971 census Christchurch population 206,200 of which 4300 were Maori. That’s 121 years of settlement.
    ………..
    ” As a moral background it sets out to propose, that of all the possible understandings of our history, the best is one which begins with the colonisation by the British of another people’s land. Further, the most morally valuable events since then have been those of Maori resistance to Crown sovereignty in the name of tino rangatiratanga, together with those recent events (both in practical politics and in people’s minds) which are able to be expressed as part of a history of continued de-colonisation, the tide of which continues to rise, and which the reader is urged both to recognise and to swim with. All other events and thoughts tend to be dismissed as self-seeking, obtuse and insensitive. Such a background is asserted rather than defended; and it is probable it cannot be defended in the authors’ own terms, which are perspectival and relativist, and ill-equipped to deal with truth claims.
    Against this background, the authors’ more precise prescription is that Aotearoa/New Zealand, should-recognising (and ’recalling’) the facts of past and present-remodel itself as both a bicultural and a multicultural society. It should also re-constitute itself as a bi-national polity in which Maori, as the indigenous nation of the land, become true partners with Pakeha ’at the level of official languages, national images and symbols, prevailing agendas, and institutional frameworks’.

    Recalling Aotearoa
    Paul Spoonley, Augie Fleras

    For Ever and Ever
    Amen.

    Reply
  14. Corky

     /  October 21, 2018

    Filthy socialists. You can bet this is just the beginning.

    ”They reckon it’s about being fair.’

    Lucky I will be able to get two $2000 products into the country before this band of merry socialists skim me big time.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/17/281980/govt-raises-gst-threshold-for-online-shopping

    Reply
  15. Corky

     /  October 21, 2018

    Free speech in Canada is not a given.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  October 21, 2018

      RiseCanada is a wellknown bigoted, racist, Islamophobic group.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  October 21, 2018

        The person attacked was hit by a white man with a tattoo, according to the police. It was one blow.

        This is hardly an indication that free speech is endangered in Canada. There have been many attacks on Muslims and mosques, and most shooters are white and not Muslim.

        Any story from RiseCanada is likely to be biassed and should be checked before anyone believes it.

        Reply
  16. Corky

     /  October 21, 2018

    Jamie Lee Ross has been taken into mental health care by police.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 21, 2018

      when did that become a Police task?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 21, 2018

        If you have ever been to a mental hospital, the Police are regular visitors. My guess is Jamie lost it and had to be restrained..or he became confused and someone rang the police.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  October 21, 2018

          start threatening to dish the dirt on the Key administration…must be barking…mad.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  October 21, 2018

            Power moves in mysterious ways, Blazer. Why do you think I have been so confident?

            Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 21, 2018

      ‘I have been staying out of the JLR saga but if reports are true that @nzpolice have detained a sitting MP under any circumstances they need to give an immediate explanation. Obviously these are unusual circumstances but police detaining a sitting MP is constitutionally serious.’

      Seymour ACT.

      Reply

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