Open Forum – Tuesday

23 October 2018

Forum

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few, first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria.

Free speech is an important principle here but some people who might pose a risk to the site may be limited.

Next Post
Leave a comment

89 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  October 23, 2018

    Hasidic Jews are as fundamental as Muslims.. they don’t integrate, take a very dim view of anyone questioning their faith, and blank words like gymnasium out of their children’s books because physical culture will never be part of their life.

    Reminds me of the Exclusive Brethren lady I pass most day with a heavy back pack on pounding the pavement. I bet she would love to be a member of a gym. She must know she looks so out of place with her scarf and staid dress.( and no, she isn’t Open Brethren)

    But the good thing about these Jews and this Brethren lady is the fact they don’t want to kill me or demand I do this and that to suit their cultural needs.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 23, 2018

      But the good thing about these Jews and this Brethren lady is the fact they don’t want to kill me or demand I do this and that to suit their cultural needs.

      Perhaps. but if you were a Palestinian, some of them would. I can find and post some video clips of them doing this if you like.

      Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  October 23, 2018

      Interesting reference to the open brethren. Sounds like there may be some background there. The two are indeed very different in how they go about their daily lives

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  October 23, 2018

        Muslims don’t want to kill people here. How many Muslims commit murders in NZ? When was the last time that one leapt on a stranger and killed the stranger for not being Muslim:? Never?

        Nor do they make demands that we do things to suit their culture except in the neurotic imagination of paranoid Islamophobes who distort the facts to suit their own neurotic fantasies.

        Brethren wouldn’t let their children take part in anything like Religious Instruction in schools, and the Exclusive Brethren won’t have non-Brethren in their houses.

        Jehovah’s Witnesses will let their children (and themselves) die rather than have a blood transfusion.

        Reply
  2. lurcher1948

     /  October 23, 2018

    National came and removed JLR scary

    [There’s no evidence of that, and the Youtube link was inappropriate. PG]

    Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  October 23, 2018

      That song was on the radio in my youth,we have turned into PC wimpy snowflakes

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  October 23, 2018

        Speak for yourself. What song was it?

        Reply
        • lurcher1948

           /  October 23, 2018

          Not wishing to upset PG,but it was a song by the band Napoleon XIV, the song title is self explanatory

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  October 23, 2018

            Oh, yes, THAT one. Well, it’s PG’s blog so he gets to make the call. Letting that one through would make you look pretty insensitive but maybe you’ve never had anyone close to you commit or attempt suicide. But it might also create some downstream problems for the blogmeister he doesn’t need so probably a good call overall – not PC wimpish, in my view. Kiwiblog and Whaleoil-type contribution maybe.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  October 23, 2018

              Off to feed an eel now. He doesn’t even know who I am or how this wonderful thing happens to him, but he’s beautiful.

            • lurcher1948

               /  October 23, 2018

              PG is FAR more sensitive than me, i have been called a lot of things in my life and i have given abuse, its the fabric of life,im a old fart in the agility world, shit it comes with your sport, good natured abuse,give and take,F*CK what a waste of 4 days of dog agility in Felding might try to post something

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 23, 2018

              We had a record of that. As a child, I thought it hilarious. The revelation of who it was who’d driven the narrator mad seemed terribly funny. (represses laugh)

            • Conspiratoor

               /  October 23, 2018

              “in my view. Kiwiblog and Whaleoil-type contribution maybe”.

              How long do you think lurcher would last on whaleoil G?

            • Gezza

               /  October 23, 2018

              No idea. Guessing 30 seconds.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  October 23, 2018

              G, lurcher would die in the ditch before his insights ever saw the light of day. Just out of curiosity and please dont take this the wrong way but how long do you think you would last …if you were so inclined

            • Gezza

               /  October 23, 2018

              Probably one still there somewhere. I would be a shining beacon of their preparedness to consider other viewpoints.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  October 23, 2018

              I understand father time plays cruel tricks on the memory. But if you are able to retrieve your discus account and post the offending text here it would be interesting to run it past my blog threshold for common decency

            • Gezza

               /  October 23, 2018

              I only posted once and have never been back in case I catch something nasty.

            • Blazer

               /  October 23, 2018

              is he a slippery eel…may I suggest a..name..

            • Gezza

               /  October 23, 2018

              @blazer
              is he a slippery eel…may I suggest a..name

              That took a bit of scrolling up to see who you were replying to and what in god’s name you were talking about seeing the thread has veered off to a very strange place since c got involved.

              Yes he is a slippery eel. They are all slippery; they have a self-generated skin lubricant. But the one I fed earlier that I was referring to above already has a name. It’s Eli.

              However 0 another young, small eel I don’t recognise turned up tonight when I was feeding Big Ella, and she wasn’t in the mood for bothersome kids, so she chased him off upstream without needing to actually bite the poor little blighter.

              If he returns regularly he might need a name. What name did you have in mind?

    • Traveller

       /  October 23, 2018

      The National Party is NOT the Government.

      If you want to go all Zimbabwe on us lurch, let’s say that it’s far more likely that a sitting Govt, ( you know the one who controls all relevant ministries) would be the one to section/detain an Opposition member.

      Both scenarios are, of course, quite inane and the stuff that illustrates a serious lack of cognitive dissonance.

      Reply
  3. PartisanZ

     /  October 23, 2018

    “I hope that our economy recovers, but the time has come to declare its guiding metaphor dead. This is the metaphor of the invisible hand, which makes it seem as if the narrow pursuit of self-interest miraculously results in a well-functioning society.”

    http://evonomics.com/death-invisible-hand-narrow-pursuit-self-interest-always-fails/?utm_source=newsletter_campaign=organic

    “For the general public, unfettered competition has been turned into a moral virtue and “regulation” has become a sin.”

    ‘Regulation comes naturally for small human groups but must be constructed for large human groups.’ – David Sloan Wilson

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  October 23, 2018

      Now you know why I’m a Libertarian. Your views are toxic to freedom and free choice. Competition is what drives humans. Ever asked yourself what communes produce?
      No one has turned competition into a virtue..the simple fact is you compete or get out of the market place. However, I agree regulation is a sin if said regulation has nothing to do with protecting our individual rights from other individuals and the government.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  October 23, 2018

        ‘none of us is as smart as…all of us’.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 23, 2018

          That’s why despite millenia of finding more and more ways to kill each other in ever increasing numbers through collaborative endeavours we still manage to survive and reproduce and keep screwing up things for every life form on the planet.

          Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  October 23, 2018

        competition co-operation drives humans. Competition disadvantages most of them, advances a few. Co-operation supports all.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 23, 2018

          Why do you draw attention to your typographical errors by posting them instead just deleting them? Isn’t that rather stupid?

          Reply
        • Corky

           /  October 23, 2018

          You can have co-operation and competition at the same time. You are letting your ideology skewer reality.

          Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  October 23, 2018

          A truly idiotic comment worthy of you, Robert. Did you not stop for one nanosecond to consider how competition keeps your supermarket full of goods at cheap prices relative to the communist states which failed with empty shelves and unaffordable basic commodities?

          Competition most certainly benefits most people and only a true ideologue or half-wit could fail to see and acknowledge that.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  October 23, 2018

            I thought my comment about humans to Blazer was quite good, Sir Alan? I love this planet and the spectacular array of amazing life forms it just keeps on & on producing and reproducing. I was idly thinking this morning that, from a purely subjective objective viewpoint, when you look at the wanton damage our particular species of hairless ape continually does to all life forms including our own, maybe my ideal solution for the planet to continue doing what it does so well would be if, when I go, I could take everyone else with me? 😐

            Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  October 23, 2018

            What’s with the “idiotic” slurs, Alan? There’s no need for bile in a simple discussion, particularly when my comments aren’t at all, “idiotic”. I think you jumped the gun and shot your mouth off without considering an idea different from your own; an idea very briefly expressed and worth expanding upon. But why would I, if it attracts vitriol such as yours so easily?

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 23, 2018

              I said it was idiotic because it was, Robert. For heavens sake think about what you are saying before you write utter nonsense.

      • Conspiratoor

         /  October 23, 2018

        “Competition is what drives humans.” …and ultimately destroys us.
        Exhibit a …The Tragedy of the Commons

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  October 23, 2018

          The first television I ever owned (in the late 80s) cost $300. If I replaced the one I have now, it would be less than $200

          Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 23, 2018

      Good survey. Which options for medicinal and recreational are your preferred ones?

      Reply
      • most who read YNZ.. likely have seen my views.. but since you ask Gezza:

        Med-use; prescription by a GP to use either extracts or the raw herb, as they see fit

        Rec-use; anything besides; Status Quo/Prohibition would be a good start. Immediate moratorium on arresting adults (R18+) for possession & use. I do not put specific limit on quantities, as long as there is no clear evidence of dealing (esp. to youth)

        what say you ?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 23, 2018

          I want to think about my specific preferences but definitely on your side on this one buddy.

          Reply
          • cheers 🙂

            btw; beware the mixed messages, by some media commentators.. to create doubt/confusion in the public mind ?

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  October 23, 2018

            Ok …
            Medicinal – Dr’s prescription (and/or) profit driven with restrictions eg alcohol (might bring price down below prescription charges). This dual regime happens now with some pharmaceutical products.

            Recreational – home production (no selling) and profit driven market with tight restrictions (eg tobacco) – PLUS accurate testing and prosecution or fine for current impairment at time of prohibited activities while under the demonstrated distracting influence.

            Reply
            • all good 🙂

              there has been comments that med-use needs to be ‘Big Pharma only’. I tend to agree; if personal rec-use is also regulated.. inc. home grow, then sick folks who choose this option, can do it anyway.

              My crook knee responds better to it, rather than pills or booze ! 😀

      • one thing is clear from ALL recent polls.. the majority of respondents, do NOT support the current provisions in the MODA 75 & it is time NOW, to move beyond it.

        Pass the Med-use bill & bring on the ‘reeferendum’ ASAP (on or BEFORE the election 2020)

        Reply
    • NOEL

       /  October 23, 2018

      “The NZDTS survey is not a representative sample of the New Zealand population.”
      Says it all.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  October 23, 2018

        Fake news, NOEL.

        That doesn’t say it all. That’s from:
        Limitations
        The NZDTS survey is not a representative sample of the New Zealand population. Rather, the NZDTS engages with a large number of individuals with interest in and knowledge of drug use issues and policy from around the country. Our online sample broadly resembles the demographic profile and regional distribution of the wider New Zealand population, including those who traditionally have lower utilisation of the internet or are less likely to be interviewed in traditional surveys, such as the unemployed, men and those living in geographically isolated smaller communities.

        And even that doesn’t say it all. You need to read all of the notes.

        Reply
  4. Corky

     /  October 23, 2018

    ”Dance monkeys dance”. Rugby League officials to investigate racism claims. 😄

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  October 23, 2018

      Dance monkeys dance ? That doesn’t make sense.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  October 23, 2018

        Tru dat. Insufficient information and the laughing emoji makes it look a weeny bit maniacal.

        Reply
  5. Corky

     /  October 23, 2018

    Leighton chewing the cud over the mob of criminals heading to the US border. The question is what happens when all options fail..does the US shoot them. I say yes, but all options must be exhausted and an offer of food and supplies to return, given.

    I also believe President Trumpy must be present when these criminals are mowed down. It is he who must give the final warning. If he does that he will gain much respect.

    This is a horrendous scenario but given some of these criminals are being paid, and given the state of Europe, someone in the West must take a stand against barbarians.

    This time the Left must not provide the narrative.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 23, 2018

      Well, they’re not criminals, Aljaz tv has been tracking this with on the ground reporters for some days. Few of them have any convictions – yet. And they include many people who fear for their lives in their own country – together with their families. But that doesn’t give them the right to force their way all the way up into the USA.

      The rest of your rant is of course utter bollocks that one would ordinarily expect from a psychopathic nutbar General of the sort that often feature in black comedy and Rambo-type movies, as I am sure *someone* will point out later when *they* arrive.

      It is unlikely in my opinon that they will open up and start wantonly murdering these people without complaint from within the US or externally. The US forces are not the IDF, and their population and the rest of the West will not be looking away from that one.

      It will be hugely expensive to catch and deport these people or lock em up, feed em, and then deport them somewhere else – like the Ozzers do, but they can always bill their home country governments and/or cut aid, or up prices on pharmaceuticals, or reduce private or official arms sales to them etc.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 23, 2018

        One thing I like about you is you complicate what eventually boils down two a couple of hard
        simple choices ( given what we know of the present situation).

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 23, 2018

          Two things I like about you are (1) counting the downticks for your “hard line” simple evaluations often and rash solutions for complex situations, and (2) waiting for *someone* to turn up in the late afternoon, say something equally provocative in response to your provocative comments that then gets a lot of downticks too, & seeing whether *they* can get a bite.

          (There are one or two other things I like about you, but those two above will do for now.)

          Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  October 23, 2018

        So what is your solution to this problem G?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 23, 2018

          Build that fucken wall and stop pissing about making excuses. Get the bloody Saudis to pay for it.

          (Until then flood the border with truppen, and get them to bag, tag, and release. The fuckers probably need to get to know some foreigners anyway so they realise there are other people in the world not just Americans, and it’s better than their sitting on their arses posing for instagram or facebook or playing war games shooting off expensive munitions and just wasting the taxpayers’ dollars.)

          Drop the wall back 1 km from the actual border and stick in a 1 km-deep biggest, ugliest, most modern, most well-signposted (multilingual) most expensive, best possible deal on, minefield ever. Period. so that after that’s done they can sit back and say hey we didn’t kill them – they killed their bloody selves!

          That’s off the top of my head. I go for the humane approach. Might need some refining.

          Reply
          • Conspiratoor

             /  October 23, 2018

            A minefield would do it, but in a sense is no different to corky’s solution which you appeared to rudicule

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  October 23, 2018

              Pliz read zis very carefully –

              – she will say zis only once:

              Corky said: The question is what happens when all options fail..does the US shoot them. I say yes,

              Zis is not on. Full stop. Zere vould be movies of zis. A minefield does not require someone to actively target and execute someone. It is up to the individual whether they want to take the risk for themselves and their family.

              This works – minefields stopped millions of West Germans trying to barge their way in to the socialist utopia of East Germany – did it not?

            • Conspiratoor

               /  October 23, 2018

              Er, i think you might find a small army of unsmiling grenztruppen with orders to shoot on sight may have acted as a bit of a deterrent, say what. Whether the invader chooses to fall upon mines or guns it makes no difference. The end result is the same

            • Gezza

               /  October 23, 2018

              Yes but the choice of whether they wish to end their existence by mechanical means is theirs alone, and not one that needs to be made by some psychopath or snowflake in uniform sighting and then deliberately murdering them.

              That job is best done with less compunction by members of the IDF.

              What the US is going to do is have to prevent them from getting legal residence, which means catching them, penning them, feeding them and then telling the UN its up to them to decide what to do next.

              On 1ewes it was pointed out that Trumpy’s threats to cut aid to their source countries will only exacerbate the problem and probably cause even more people to chance their luck.

              This is the kind of situation the UN if properly operating should resolve. Many of these people are fleeing for their lives, they are refugees, every country they pass through is a country of refuge which is not providing refuge.

              The UN should really be intervening before they get to the US. No country can be expected to open their borders to people who simply demand entry. if the UN doesn’t have enuf money to feed house and provide for these people during their temporary incarceration in the US then the US could always up its aid contributions to the UN.

    • Corky

       /  October 23, 2018

      On one hand a lady said they weren’t criminals. On the other they kicked down the border fence between their country and Mexico. I guess they will behave when they get to the American border.

      God speed, Mr President. May you be guided for the sake of the greatest nation on earth.

      At 1.9.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  October 23, 2018

        I sincerely that the US will NOT commit genocide/mass murder. I don’t believe that they will.All hell would breal loose.

        The fact that they consider themselves to be the greatest nation doesn’t mean that they are; self-praise is no recommendation.

        Reply
  6. Gezza

     /  October 23, 2018

    So, as I said I would, I have now spoken to one of my local Indian dairy owners. He’s a nice enuf chap. Excellent English, no accent, been here for donkey’s years. Works long hours, open 7 days a week, rarely takes a day off. He has his telly on in the shop. It was near his lock up time of 8.30 pm and his shop was open as I was passing in the car, so I stopped and went in and bought some milk and jet planes, but mainly to chat to him about the recent political ructions.

    I specifically asked whether he was personally offended on seeing or hearing what Bridges had said about Asians in that surreptitiously-recorded phone conversation where Ross unsuccessfully tried to entrap him.

    He always calls me “Sir Gez”, with a smile, when I enter his shop. Has done so for some reason for years, well before I was privately awarded my officially unrecognised knighthood here. Anyway, I digress. He equivocated a bit on the offence question. “In some ways, yes and in some ways no”, he said.

    As our convo continued he was balancing out being objective about how two friends or colleagues might chat amongst themselves and say something about a person or group of people they wouldn’t want anyone else to hear, but that wouldn’t prevent them doing the socially-required, or politically correct, “right thing” in any personal or business dealings with that individual or group.

    He said as an illustration that there are nearly 40 different states in India, and he comes from one near the bottom. The way things are over there, he said, most of us regard anyone from another state as an immigrant or a foreigner, and privately a lot of us mutter much the same sort of things about them.

    He never says who he votes for, but he votes for whichever party is best for his business. He and his wife work all hours and their profit margins are low, it’s hard work he doesn’t want their kids to do (and they won’t be, they’re at university) and it’s risky. He’s the one who had a knife held to his neck a few years ago during a robbery. He won’t vote for any party with policies that makes his working life harder or reduces his profitability.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  October 23, 2018

      I was naively surprised when an Indian friend said that India is a lot of countries rather than a single entity. No wonder it’s a sod to govern, things tend to be put on one side as being too hard to even contemplate doing.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  October 23, 2018

      I always wondered why so many Indians talked to each other in English.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  October 23, 2018

        You might find this interesting, Corks.
        https://www.k-international.com/blog/countries-with-the-most-english-speakers/

        But I think most Indians who immigrate to New Zealand have a reasonable command of English because they need to speak it already if coming here as skilled migrants and of those who come under Family categories, those who work (which seems to be most, unless they’re stay-home child-minders) rapidly learn it simply because they need to for business and social purposes.

        I have a feeling we get most of our Indian immigrants from a few provinces and cities where English is taught and reasonably widely spoken.

        I’ve personally briefly met only one from the sticks who was a tenant farmer who spoke only Hindi. He married a stunningly beautiful NZ-born Indian lawyer I worked with for a while. She went back to India to attend an arranged wedding and meet the rellies and to everyone’s surprise she got caught up in it all and came back into the office 3 weeks later sporting a wedding ring.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  October 23, 2018

          Wow..India and Pakistan. Seems like there are more English speakers around the world than in the West,

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  October 23, 2018

            Could be. Listen to our PM, the Leader of the Opposition, Mark Mitchell, some tv journos. Not a lot of great English speakers there.

            Reply
  7. Gezza

     /  October 23, 2018

    Watching 1ewes at 6. National support dropped. Labour up. Greens up. NZF up too (I think).

    Poll taken after the Ross allegations disaster.

    Translated to seats Labour and Greens wouldn’t need NZF if this was an election result.

    Bridges down to 7% Ardern up to highest ever.

    Can’t remember the numbers. No doubt PG will put them up soon. I haven’t found them with google yet. National MPs all expressing full support for Bridges but we all know what’s on the cards.

    Reply
  8. robertguyton

     /  October 23, 2018

    ianmac 22
    23 October 2018 at 5:02 pm
    Lisa Owens is on now tonight for Checkpoint. She is the takeover from John Campbell. Says she has something from the MP who was in a relationship with JLR. Lisa is a sharp interviewer.

    Reply
    ianmac 22.1
    23 October 2018 at 5:35 pm
    Well. Lisa started telling about an email/text that was sent to JLR by the Nat MP who was having an affair with him. It ended with “I hope that you die.” The expected report stopped abruptly…. and switched to different topic.

    YReply
    Anne 22.1.1
    23 October 2018 at 5:57 pm
    Tthere was something fishy there. She came back to the original story 15 mins later sans the bit about the abusive email sent to JLR in August. My guess is there was a last minute call from someone linked to National threatening RNZ if they pursued the story.

    Could someone look at the edit function. It’s playing up again.

    Reply
    I feel love 22.1.1.1
    23 October 2018 at 6:03 pm
    WTF is going on? It’s like the worse cover up ever. I wish we had some decent media in this country, you know it’s bad if you have to check WO for information.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s