Open Forum – Saturday

27 October 2018

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62 Comments

  1. sorethumb

     /  October 27, 2018
    Reply
  2. “The National Party worked hard to dismiss what was rotten in the party when Nicky Hager published first The Hollow Men and then Dirty Politics. Don Brash and then John Key deflected the deceit and machinations exposed as ‘just politics’ and Hager as a left-wing conspiracy theorist. They made it all sound confusing. Understandably, they went on the defensive and tried to accentuate the positive.

    But hacking into a competitor’s website, the gaming of the law in the form of the Official Information Act and the attempted character assassinations of opponents were all signs of a dysfunctional organisation and workplace. Ross’s revelations make it clear that dysfunction has never been properly confronted or repented. The strategies of Cameron Slater, Simon Lusk and others in and around the party have not been put beyond the pale. Threats, bullying and power plays continue.”
    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/dont-give-me-culture-change-it

    Reply
    • David

       /  October 27, 2018

      How would you propose the opposition party deal with a blogger who hates them, who is no longer a party member and spends everyday using the freedoms enjoyed in NZ to smack National and their leadership around.
      Have him shut down, his legs broken, censored ?

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  October 27, 2018

        @David – “How would you propose the opposition party deal with a blogger who hates them, who is no longer a party member and spends everyday …”

        Ouh, ouh, please sir … I’ll have a go!

        Try to prevent all the others from becoming bloggers as well …?

        You’re referring to the sacred freedoms our forebears fought two world wars to preserve, aren’t you? Things like God-given Private Property …?

        How about Crucifixion out in ‘No-Man’s Land’ like Archibald Baxter got?

        Reply
    • “The strategies of Cameron Slater, Simon Lusk and others in and around the party”

      That is disingenuous. The party and the National caucus have largely distanced themselves from Slater and Lusk, and Slater and Lusk have clearly been operating independently to and against the party.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  October 27, 2018

        yes National are quite ruthless in disposing and disowning their own when they pass their use by…date.
        Even former P.M’s are not spared.

        Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 27, 2018

      I don’t much like the National Party but I am not convinced that this is the case, robert. I think they are now just a typical mainstream well-funded political party with a party machine that is adept at securing & where necessary disguising funding, potentially amenable to being beholden to or influenced by donor groups and lobbyists just like Labour, NZF, The Greens and ACT (altho maybe they are more upfront as the kinds of policies they advocate are mostly libertarian and their funders don’t hide their greed – I await a smack for that later in the day from *someone* but have my mental helmet on).

      I certainly saw and see some evidence of bullying in the Greens at the last election, and altho not so publicly on display as that in Labour there certainly seemed to be some evidence of bad-taste glee from some MPs at the surrender of Andy Little, there is evidence of hiding of Labour donations thru art auctions, and there has been some fairly blatant untruthing from Labour and NZF and suspicions of favours for groups and individuals in policy decisions or project approvals with businesses cases that haven’t looked great or haven’t been done, as I recall.

      So, National play politics and look for any opportunity to damage the government or their political opponents, in the same way the other parties do. But they have had a cuckoo in their nest and some very nasty people connected to that cuckoo who have an obsessive & perfidious commitment to bring its leader down and damage the party for their own nefarious reasons.

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  October 27, 2018

        A cuckoo in their nest, Gezza?
        JLR’s no cuckoo, he’s a true-blue Nat, typical of his kind, not foreign, one of the team. The other Nat’s had years to study Jami-Lee and discover whether he was a cuckoo, but rather than alert everyone of such an alien in their midst, they slept with him and elevated him to the top shelf in their party. No cuckoo, him; he’s a Nat through and through.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 27, 2018

          In the same way that all Green MPs are really just frauds ripping off the taxpayer because they all knew their co-leader was and conning taxpayers out of money and into voting for their extremist views is all they are about, through and through?

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  October 27, 2018

            Nobody claimed Metiria was a cuckoo in the Green nest.
            You have a crazily intense interest in Metiria, Gezza – remind you of a girlfriend back in the day?

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  October 27, 2018

            Well, possibly a bit like Lynnie, my first girlfriend who I lived with for a year before she listed my deficiencies on leaving me for another guy who wasn’t so blindly selfish. She was part European part Fijian and attracted me because she wore her long black hair in plaits & looked like a beautiful young American Indian squaw. But she had a much slimmer figure and was studying programming, which was all very new then. She lives in Cincinnati now. I could never quite understand why my late lovely wife refused to even meet her and burned my favourite denim jacket that Lynnie gave me 1 week after we got married because she was such a sweet, pretty petite young wife.

            I would never have got such a lovely wife if Lynnie hadn’t showed me how wonderful most women are & that those ones are the ones who expect to be treated with respect and affection because they will return it in spades.

            I have seen you frequently making sweeping slurs on all members & MPs of the National party based on the reprehensible actions of one or more members. I am not a tribal political attack dog for any party, like you and so not a tribal extreme feminist green ecowarrior whose party supporters even PZ described as “savages” when encountering someone who did not agree with their extreme intolerance for other views but their own.

            And so what I like to do is remind you that your favourite party and its supporters are very far from the angels they and you like to present them as.
            That’s all.

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  October 27, 2018

              You heavily criticise a friend of mine when I heavily criticise politicians you yourself don’t support. Can you see the disparity?

            • Gezza

               /  October 27, 2018

              Yes. This is a political blog. If you wish to argue sanctity becoz friend; evil becoz not, you are in the wrong place. Can you see your hypocrisy? This is not far different from Slater.

            • Gezza

               /  October 27, 2018

              You do not seem able to grasp the essential fact that my analyses are not biased by tribality. They are as objective as I can subjectively make them and while it is a difficult thing to do on a political blog I try to be even handed in talking about the good and the bad.

              But I also have a sense of humour and I am not a pastor.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 27, 2018

              Gezza – you are missing an essential point – I don’t “argue sanctity becoz friend”, in fact I don’t argue sanctity of Metiria at all, you are imagining that I do, then using that imagining to justify your gratuitous attacks on her. I’m not offended when you do, nor do I feel the need to defend her, it’s just that I wonder if you are aware of what’s occurring.

            • Gezza

               /  October 27, 2018

              All that is occurring is that I am expressing my opinions in response to your opinions when I wish to express my opinions. And I have explained why and what my opinion is based on. If the answer is not comprehensible to you it is because our minds work differently and I cannot make you understand there is nothing wrong with that. I am aware of what’s occurring and right now what’s occurring is you appear to be perceiving something wrong with what I am doing that is not wrong to me.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 27, 2018

              I see.
              90 people came to my talk in Masterton today. We all had a wonderful time, so far as I could tell.

            • robertguyton

               /  October 27, 2018

              “And so what I like to do is remind you that your favourite party and its supporters are very far from the angels they and you like to present them as.”
              That’s very public-minded of you, Gezza. Without your selfless work, I’d probably run amok here on Your NZ. You keep me real.

              /sarc

            • Gezza

               /  October 27, 2018

              I’m sure you did have a wonderful time. People of like minds usually do and I imagine you are of like minds. Robert ma has just phoned me she has been unwell all day and is calling an ambulance I need to go down stick your sarcasm where the sun don’t shine & good night.

  3. lurcher1948

     /  October 27, 2018

    Petrols dropped for a second time,wait for the howls of rage saying it’s all Jacinda,our PMs fault on a nearby right wing blog…

    Reply
  4. Missy

     /  October 27, 2018

    For a bit of reflection as we enter the final month of WWI centenary.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  October 27, 2018

      I was lucky enough to be in a shop when someone was spending one of the centennial 50c pieces. She and the shopkeeper were looking at it and the shopkeeper let me swap an ordinary one for it. Needless to say that I won’t be spending it. The woman who was said that in Ngaruawahia there were quite a few ! Why there?

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 27, 2018

      another unnecessary loss of life…the Brits declaring war because??

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  October 27, 2018

        I wonder if, perhaps from year 101 onward, we’ll be able to talk more openly about the myriad real reasons for WW1 … some of the utterly despicable ones not all German in origin … and perhaps get a more healthy perspective on what the word “sacrifice” really means?

        Reply
      • Missy

         /  October 27, 2018

        The Brits declared war because of a complex set of Balance of Power agreements that came into play after a Serbian killed the Archduke of Austria-Hungary, and Austria-Hungary issued an ultimatum effectively revoking Serbia’s sovereignty and using disagreements as an excuse to invade. After several movements, and both A-H and Germany declaring war, Britain entered when Germany invaded Belgium, whose protection was guaranteed by Britain.

        There you go Blazer, a very quick explanation for you of a complex process. I hope you have now learnt something.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  October 27, 2018

          so sticking up for Begium in WW1 and Poland in WW2 cost millions of ..lives…why would they?

          Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  October 27, 2018

          “Every 25 April thousands of young New Zealanders travel to the memorials erected along the Gallipoli Peninsula to recall the blood sacrifice of the dreadful, and ultimately futile, Dardanelles campaign …

          They do not know, because they have not been told, that Britain’s decision to go to war with Germany was not taken in defense of “poor little Belgium”, but in the hope that, between them, France and Russia would destroy the British Empire’s principal economic rival …

          They do not know, because they have not been told, that Bill Massey’s government did not dispatch 19.4% of its male population to the killing fields of Gallipoli and Flanders to ‘make the world safe for democracy’, but to keep safe, and if possible expand, New Zealand’s ‘protein industry’ …

          Belich … “The objective … was to create a moral debt in British minds to New Zealand in particular by exceeding the unquestioning loyalty and eager sacrifice even of the other dominions.”

          Thus did New Zealand’s political and economic elites elect to repay Britannia’s imperial mortgage: in the butter and cheese of its dairy factories; and the blood of its sons.”

          – Chris Trotter ‘No Left Turn’ – excerpts pgs 105 – 106

          Reply
    • PDB

       /  October 27, 2018

      Thanks Missy – not sure why all the downticks?

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  October 27, 2018

        You are welcome PDB, and as for the downticks, well I guess some people don’t like history, but that is only a guess as they are too cowardly to say why they are down ticking.

        Of course it could be some of our resident lefties who haven’t actually watched the video and just seen Lord Ashcroft’s name and downticked based on some silly incorrect perception about him.

        Reply
  5. Corky

     /  October 27, 2018

    Got a bad feeling about tonights All Black test…hope it’s just nerves.

    Reply
  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  October 27, 2018

    Yet another dumbed down two lane instead of four lane highway from our Ltnz snd Govt incompetents:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12148346

    When will they be forced to raise their game to international standards?

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 27, 2018

      ‘ but with room for widening to four lanes in the future.’

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  October 27, 2018

        Yes, when it will certainly cost vastly more than it would now, even without the cost of the massive disruption to traffic it will then incur.

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  October 27, 2018

          To be really cynical about it … There would absolutely need to be an ‘alternative’ or fees-free route anyhow, since the f**king four laner was going to be 9 sections of 20km Toll Road, making an Auckland-to-Whangarei trip cost around $20 in tolls alone …

          This way the alternative route will be in place when the time comes … When it finally makes socio-economic sense to four lane Puhoi-to-Whangarei … which I predict will not be in your lifetime Alan … and probably not in mine either …

          It was an election bribe.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  October 27, 2018

            If you read my link you would see it refers to a Wgtn provincial highway.

            Reply
            • PartisanZ

               /  October 27, 2018

              Okay, but given the article I read in the Advocate [I think], which describes exactly the same thing happening Whangarei to Port Marsden … I’ll happily forgive myself …

            • PartisanZ

               /  October 27, 2018

              It was accompanied by an excellent photo of the cheap plastic median poles happily doing their job of keeping traffic apart along the Oakleigh section …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 27, 2018

              That would be the route so clogged up with trucks I had the slowest ever trip to Auckland recently. I guess the median poles were doing their job but certainly not aiding mine.

            • Griff.

               /  October 27, 2018

              So you haven’t got domed yet Alan?
              Dome valley has a accident and they make you detour to highway 16.
              Ive been domed in the past and had an extra three hours added to the Ak to langs trip plus the dog got car sick and power shat itself all over the upholstery.. not a good day….
              We encountered the accident delay in whangas last week after the head on Was not to bad only an extra hour detour .

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 27, 2018

              Yes, have been Domed, but only on the way north so far, Griff. Crawled along in a queue for ages and just managed to get to the front when my wife said she had to make a loo stop.

            • PartisanZ

               /  October 27, 2018

              Pretty sure Labour-led’s Long Term Transport Plan has Dome Valley and the Brynderwyns writ large for bypass and/or significant improvement …?

              They’re not abandoning SH1 guys … just doing sensible cost effective things with it …

              By the time four lanes would have become a reality the car fleet would be a somewhat reduced electric one … and the truck & bus fleet would have largely become … trains …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 27, 2018

              When do you expect the railway line to reach Kohukohu, PZ?

              Or goods to succeed in teleporting themselves from manufacturers, farms anf forests to the railway and from the railway to retailers and customers?

              In the meantime there will be roads and trucks and buses. Lots of them.

            • PartisanZ

               /  October 27, 2018

              There are so many factors Alan …

              First, I kind of expect Lithium to run out before the car fleet becomes electric … and we already know the truck fleet never will be …

              So a lot depends on oil …

              If oil becomes too expensive, rail will become more cost effective, and possibly coastal shipping as well …

              Logs and many goods and passenges could be barged and launched around Hokianga harbour …

              Of course there’ll be roads and trucks and cars and buses …

              But really its not about that. It’s about whether two lanes plus passing lanes plus safety – plus alternative two lanes in places – and provincial roads much as they are now – will be good enough until we know for sure what volumes of trucks, buses and cars will survive the enforced paradigm shift …

              I think its the only sensible thing to do … Four lanes to Whangarei is speculative roading … unless government intervention also shifts Auckland’s port to Marsden or something …

            • Gezza

               /  October 28, 2018

              just managed to get to the front when my wife said she had to make a loo stop

              Been there. Had that. More than once. The creator came up with the most entrancing and amazing invention with these lovely creatures, but on these occasions, I did sometimes find myself idly thinking, as I resignedly and good-humouredly stood guard & waited outside, that did seem to be one tiny little design fault.

        • Blazer

           /  October 27, 2018

          you gazing at a crystal ball instead of your navel…these days…

          Futurama …Al jnr driving along his 4 lane highway,as everyone else whizzes by in their jetson type airborne transporters.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  October 27, 2018

            Your addiction to fake news could possibly be cured by surgery, B.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  October 27, 2018

              your addiction and adoration of Donald makes you an incurable …Trumpanzee…

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 27, 2018

              Currently the best choice, B. That’s all.

          • PartisanZ

             /  October 27, 2018

            Alan … the option ‘Adequate’ does not include ‘Inadequate’ …

            Reply
  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  October 27, 2018

    Labour celebrates building an affordable house for $649,000 and selling it to a graduating doctor with a marketing partner thus solving the Auckland housing crisis for poor young New Zealand families..

    The media report this with a straight face:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12149888

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  October 27, 2018

      National celebrate by former P.M with a 4 point plan to ensure housing affordability for hardworking Kiwis ,flipping yet another property…and another windfall profit..

      all done in the……

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  October 27, 2018

        Many of your comments are merely willfully biased Alan, but I’ve gotta call “pathetic” on this one …

        First – I have one relative and one friend who have recently graduated as doctors. They qualify encumbered with between $100K and $200K of student debt … and then earn not great money for several years …

        Second – For whatever reasons even I find inexplicable, Labour &/or Heraldo chose to focus on this one couple out of 18 families who, judging by the video pics, are a pretty diverse bunch ethnically and almost certainly financially as well …

        The principle of ‘peppering’ state &/or PPP housing areas with all types has proved successful overseas. Someone posted something on here about it a few days ago I recall?

        I’d dearly love to know how Derryn and Fletcher got chosen as the ‘frontpeople’ for this media release though, wouldn’t you? Something about Labour not wanting to alienate White Anglo-Saxon Middle-Class folks maybe?

        And why only focus on one ‘family’ out of the 18? I can’t make sense of this … I guess in the universe of possibility, some spin is less-than-optimal spin?

        Third – What we do know is how they got chosen to have one of these houses. A ballot is a ballot is a ballot … Right?

        Finally, you begrudge them their first home &/or rung on the ‘property ladder’ – indistinguishable because of lack of CGT – because they got it from a Labour-led government? Seriously? Tell you what, it beats the living *shit* out of Key’s Tamaki evictions and Meth-Con …

        I don’t care who they are or how much they earn … within reason … I wish them good luck and all the best.

        PDB – Dave Dobbyn is there because he’s a healer. That’s what musicians do. And I think perhaps he recognizes this as a healing moment in Aotearoa NZ’s history – with echoes of Micky Savage & 1937 – somehow beginning to lay to rest some ghosts from the last 30+ years of rampant property speculation and its corollaries and aftermaths … Leaky homes … Fifth Labour’s property bubble … The GFC … and Fifth National’s new property bubble …

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  October 27, 2018

          Also … I’ve gotta say … given the ‘mood’ of the last couple of JLR-Bridges weeks, I couldn’t really think of a more inappropriate symbol right now than “a mandarin tree … Chinese symbol of abundance and happiness” as a gift for the new homeys … or is this also very ‘strategic’?

          I wonder how many of them are actually Chinese recent immigrants?

          Personally, I’d have gone for good old Kiwi grapefruit …

          Only problem is, so many stressed-out Kiwis now take Statin drugs – I mean ‘medications’ – where grapefruit is specifically contraindicated that the fruit would just lie about rotting on the ground … as it does all over New Zeal Land nowadays …

          Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  October 27, 2018

          Realestate nz website currently lists 142 houses in urban Auckland for sale at listed prices up to $600k. No doubt there will be more going to auction or negotiated.

          There is nothing unique about Labour’s houses except politicians trying to take credit for what the market already does better.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  October 27, 2018

            the so called ‘market’ is a fantasy you looney fool.

            Reply
          • Blazer

             /  October 27, 2018

            show me how efficient your market is..go right ahead..any example will do.

            Reply
            • PartisanZ

               /  October 27, 2018

              After watching Gore Vidal’s movie “United States of Amnesia” I’m trying to come up with pithy quotes to bolster my own ego … [Corky damages it so frequently you see] … so here’s one …

              Today’s property market is the modern equivalent of the slave market of old. It deals in stolen goods …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 27, 2018

              I just did. It offers an order of magnitude more houses at more affordable prices than your politicians.

            • Blazer

               /  October 27, 2018

              are you talking about ‘public/private ..partnerships=guaranteed profits for ..cronies?

  8. PDB

     /  October 27, 2018

    The same 18 ‘Kiwibuild’ homes that Twyford bought off the plans?

    $649,000 for a home in Papakura isn’t something to be too proud of, bringing Dave Dobbyn out to celebrate it even less so.

    Reply
  9. Gezza

     /  October 27, 2018

    Her voice is still a bit shrieky for me but I have to say whatever Melissa Stokes stylist is doing with her hair, they know their job, it’s a very simple change but she looks particularly good.

    I like this new set they have on 1ewes. It’s a fantastic design when they want to stand the presenter against the huge wrap around screen or put the in the middle of a huge 3D-style animation, like when they showed the Pike River mine tunnels and levels.

    The women presenters always look stunning, and they have to now because of the full body shots they appear in so frequently. Their clothing designers also score highly on knowing what they’re doing. They must have a crazy big budget for women’s wear because they always seem to be wearing designer outfits and they never wear the same one again.

    I notice there is a standard ladies hi-heel shoe colour and style they all wear. Don’t know what colour you’d call it – like a cross between an oatmeal and a very light pink. It seems to go with most of the ladies’ outfits and it’s rare to see another colour shoe unless it’s an outfit match (e.g black dress, black shoes).

    Just saying,

    Reply

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