Open Forum – Sunday

28 October 2018

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106 Comments

  1. An Ineffectual Opposition Is Bad News

    “Politics is also a contest of ideas; NZ politics currently appears to be a contest of sleaze & dirt against kindness. The irony is that the best way to combat the message of Jacinda Ardern (bringing people together, kindness, hope, being positive, compassion) is to be an ineffectual opposition. I will try and build the argument.”

    https://thestandard.org.nz/an-ineffectual-opposition-is-bad-news/

    Reply
    • David

       /  October 28, 2018

      Labour were a disgusting muck raking opposition 12 months ago give me a break with somehow reinventing the party of Mallard as some new age church group, given half the chance they would still be in boots and all and they sup with the most worst perpetrator.
      The opposition, not counting a couple of weeks of jami Lee Ross, has been very effective, they support the climate change legislation they are sorting out the unit titles act as examples of the positive and they have rightly pointed out where this coalition has failed to think through the consequences of its decisions, think oil and gas, regional petrol tax. You could also point to the recent changes to taxing online shopping where Nash has copied and pasted Nationals policy after ditching his own.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  October 28, 2018

      Time will tell robert. The opposition is somewhat in disarray, more than ably assisted it seems by a former cuckoo infected with external malignancies. It was in power for a long time and we know in such circumstances rot sets in, as it did when Helen and Sir Michael abandoned the Labour Party, leaving it leaderless and rudderless to a fate of 9 long years in the political wilderness.

      The effectiveness of the National Party in Opposition has been severely hammered by the accusations and exposures of some dirty linen, and I think there will have to be a leader change or a massive change in performance and fortunes before they can seriously challenge the establishment of a repeat performance by the current coalition next term.

      But. There has not been anywhere enuf time to evaluate the effectiveness and overall record, or indeed the longevity of popularity of the Parties in the current Jacinda & Winston-led coalition. When I think about it, those two actually are co-leaders, with a bone thrown to the Green Party on some issues Labour might think, if later unpopular, The Greens will carry the can for: “That’s THEIR policy; not ours”.

      The kindness angle is a good one, easy to sell as it is warm and fluffy and people just like the sound of it, but there seem to be more homeless than ever now, so there might be a little more hype than reality in this one yet.

      I do however like the idea of extending the measures of our country’s current “state of the union” to include certain social wellbeing criteria, and not just GDP and the standard OECD economic indicators.

      But some things seem to signal potential unhappiness ahead for and with the coalition, and any belief in or hope for the much vaunted most open and transparent government ever that was also promised by Jacinda has already been consigned to the rubbish bin.

      It might be interesting to look later today at what some of the more intelligent non-Labourites have had to say in response to the post you have linked above.

      Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 28, 2018

      What arrogance thinks the voters want a message? They want to see sensible government, not tax money being used to sell $650k houses to doctors by politicians pouncing around pretending to have done something useful.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  October 28, 2018

        Harsh but fair, Sir Alan. That was certainly the angle taken by 1ewes at 6 last night, reporting on the celebrations at the moving in of the young couple into the first of the new four bedroom lottery-selected expensive-range affordable houses.

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  October 28, 2018

          They’re playing very slight variations of the same game …

          ‘The Orthodox Economy’, which is essentially FIIRE, is still in charge via corporate-political elites. This is possibly how it always has been – Tories & Whigs – but not necessarily how it always will be …

          Because political parties not only appear to change through strategy and spin, but actually DO CHANGE through leadership, personnel and ‘with the times’, a prolonged period of ‘kindness’ won’t do Labour any harm.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  October 28, 2018

            Ae, just as long as it doesn’t turn out for too many of us that they decide they have to be cruel to be kind. 😉

            Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  October 28, 2018

      Are you silly enough to be impressed by such black and white thinking Robert Guyton?
      The real reason for a lack of opposition is a starving of research for alternative points of view.

      Recently the American social psychologist Jonathan Haidt described how the social sciences reproduce their intolerant political agenda. Like Antony Jay and the BBC, Haidt knows his subject from the inside. Indeed, he presented his criticisms at the annual meeting of the Society for Personality and Social Psychology, in January 2011.[36] Haidt argued that the discipline of social psychology is a “tribal-moral society” that shuts out research and researchers likely to produce results that conflict with liberal (i.e. socialist) beliefs.
      https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2012/06/the-war-against-human-nature-in-the-social-sciences/

      Reply
    • PDB

       /  October 28, 2018

      “The irony is that the best way to combat the message of Jacinda Ardern (bringing people together, kindness, hope, being positive, compassion)”

      They forgot to mention lying to the public (the latest regarding the last minute decision to stop further regional fuel taxes – one of many being racked up now by Ardern), hopeless governance, covering up claims of sexual harassment, pandering to NZL First donors such as the racing industry, being the least open and transparent govt ever etc etc

      Reply
  2. lurcher1948

     /  October 28, 2018

    A trump supporter doing what the USA does so well,MAGA no country kills its own as efficiently as a rightwing killer in the USA
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tree-of-life-synagogue-shooter-pittsburgh_us_5bd475ffe4b055bc948c6ef2

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  October 28, 2018

      ”A trump supporter? ” Lets wait for the facts.

      ”No country kills its own as efficiently as a rightwing killer in the USA.”

      That’s crap. Liberals kill far more people..except liberals don’t use bullets..they use legislation and narrative.

      In fact, on scale, the Maori Wars were one of the largest acts of genocide perpetrate by mankind.

      Seems to me a conspiracy is building.

      1- A cabal of criminals heading for the US border.
      2- A Trump supporter mails pipe bombs.
      3- Jews get massacred.
      4- Mid term election soon.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  October 28, 2018

        Keep flying the MAGA flag Corky…what will a trump supporter do next????? kill a classroom full of children..2nd amendment right

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  October 28, 2018

          2nd amendment right?

          Sorry, you are away with the fairies again, Lurchy. Just because Red bombs at a dog event doesn’t mean you have to take it personally..unless of course the winner is laughing at you.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  October 28, 2018

            You have finally realised that dog eventing is not a dog show.

            RED doesn’t bomb out, he’s one of the best agility dogs in NZ.

            Don’t assume that everyone is as spiteful as you are.

            Reply
        • sorethumb

           /  October 28, 2018

          What is the connection between “Trump supporter” and crazed killer?

          Reply
          • lurcher1948

             /  October 28, 2018

            CORKY, well hes a supporter

            Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  October 28, 2018

            We know that he’s a supporter, and even if RED didn’t do well (and he can’t win every time, someone else might like to win occasionally) I see no connection between that and an American massacre.

            Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  October 28, 2018

        Corky this TRUMP righty killed 11 people but ALL the right TRUMP supporters IE YOU, Corky know its a false flag operation from crooked Klillery and it never happened as you cannot trust the fack news like every news service in the world because TRUMP SAYS SO

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  October 28, 2018

          Trump was shown on the news calling for more guns at churches now. Farkin crazy country. Just gonna get worse. I wouldn’t be surprised if there”ll eventually be more mad fuckers with open-carry AR15s, rifles, various calibre pistols, “pieces” strapped to their calves,in their handbags, or holstered under jackets, or stashed in the boot or cab of their trucks and SUV’s (and probably even Harleys) than there are in some countries that are war zones.

          They’ve already probably got more armed police and law enforcement agencies of one kind or another than many other shit-hole countries.

          It was telling all guns were banned from the NSA Conference Trump addressed. Why? If anything happens an NRA conference is the ideal bloody place to test their famous claim the only person who can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

          But how do you decide which is the bad guy? Eh? And how do make sure you hit the bad guy? Not the good guy? Eh?

          Madness.

          Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  October 28, 2018

        A bad hair day,Corkys hero…im sure there are families at the moment having worse”bad hair days” stupid is as stupid does,righties keep defending the idiot but what orange face spray does he use??????
        https://t.co/0xfw625VQ6

        Reply
        • lurcher1948

           /  October 28, 2018

          Corky the mayor of Pittsburgh on fox SAID RUN if a TRUMP supporter turns up, as under the orange man the USA is a shooting gallery with AR15,MAGA and the NRA your 2nd amendment right to KILL ANYONE,MAKING AMERICA GREAT, vote tRUMP

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  October 28, 2018

            Is that the same Pittsburgh that has one of the highest murder rates in the US, or some other Pittsburgh? It’s not Trump supporters, the NRA, or AR-15s killing people every week in that town.

            Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  October 28, 2018

          I cannot believe that Trump said that it was a bad hair day when he had just heard of a massacre…or that he is engaging in victim blaming by saying that the synagogue should have had an armed guard…who thinks of having armed guards in a place of worship?

          Reply
          • Pink David

             /  October 28, 2018

            ” synagogue should have had an armed guard…who thinks of having armed guards in a place of worship?”

            Most synagogues in Europe.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  October 28, 2018

              I don’t know how many actually do, although security is an issue.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 28, 2018

      No, Lurch, he is a neo-nazi anti-semite who says Trump isn’t a true nationalist:
      https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5bd4892be4b0a8f17ef84019

      Pretty sure he didn’t like Kushner and Trump’s support of Israel. That’s probably what riled the lunatic up – hating Trump, not supporting him.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  October 28, 2018

        GOD BLESS AMERICA, our thoughts and prays…MAGA and build the wall to keep the TRUMP SUPPORTERS from infesting the world

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  October 28, 2018

          Yes, it must be a great comfort to have his thoughts and prayers meaninglessly trotted out EVERY TIME THERE’S A MASS KILLING,

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  October 28, 2018

            This is the 293rd mass shooting this year, although not all have resulted in fatalities.

            Murderers’ rights to carry arms are more important than other people’s right to stay alive or uninjured.

            Reply
  3. lurcher1948

     /  October 28, 2018

    MAGA life in a country run by trump
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/mass-shootings-in-america/
    TRUMP hero of nutters with assault rifles

    Reply
  4. lurcher1948

     /  October 28, 2018

    MAGA a trump supporter
    https://t.co/WcE1QPuFSw
    you can hear his knuckles dragging

    Reply
  5. lurcher1948

     /  October 28, 2018

    Reply
  6. lurcher1948

     /  October 28, 2018

    Morning down ticker, had your first cup of coffee yet????

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 28, 2018

      A good read, st. Uncommon sense.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  October 28, 2018

        Common sense just means ordinary sense, not common as in frequent.

        This girl has it right. Being pawed is horrible, but if you let it dominate your life, you are giving the person power that they don’t deserve,

        I agree about the misuse of ‘survivor’.

        Reply
  7. sorethumb

     /  October 28, 2018

    Christchurch teemed with Ngai tahu pre contact. If so where is the archeological evidence?

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  October 28, 2018

      Share ratio and associated numbers are what’s needed to get mum and pop investors into the market to build a nice layer of cream ready to be skimmed at a later date.

      Reply
  8. Corky

     /  October 28, 2018

    There are more secret government and military bases in Australasia then many people may realise. Australia has all those shown in the link, and New Zealand has three major bases.

    That definitely makes Australasia a prime target during war given warfare is now about
    communications.

    Pine Gap is a major point of contention with critics. Critics claim Australia has no input into how the base is run. It’s basically sovereign American soil.

    So much for living in a benign part of the globe as Aunty would have us believe.

    https://www.news.com.au/travel/australian-holidays/australias-top-secret-sites-uncovered-by-google-earth/news-story/e4e8ebe7b987896c8c5ec668b93d7390

    Reply
  9. lurcher1948

     /  October 28, 2018

    Chuck Bird
    Are the Trump hating Democrats going to accept responsibility for this atrocity or somehow try to blame President Trump?

    All Jews must die’: Eight killed, six injured in US synagogue shooting

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12150093

    Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 LOG IN TO REPLY REPORTOCTOBER 28, 2018 8:28AM
    Come back Chuck, and some rightwinger killed the Jews just saying

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  October 28, 2018

      Chuck isn’t American, he’s Canadian.

      Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  October 28, 2018

      There is a proportion on the right which blames the Jews for multiculturalism. Made famous by Kevin McDonald. I have no idea how big that proportion is but naturally they attract attention.
      I think there is an element of truth in it in so far as Jews were predominant in the Frankfurt School, however Jews are also prominent in the undoing of the Frankfurt School: Steven Pinker, Gad Saad (others I can’t think of at the moment). I fail to see how any Jew would welcome the Islamisation of Europe?

      Three standard deviations advantage for the general population puts an individual at 99.9%. That’s .001 of the population, so .001 X 200,000,000 (using your figures) = 200,000 “white gentiles” with an IQ of 145 or more.

      Two standard deviations advantage for the Jewish population (with an estimated mean IQ of 115) means an IQ above 97.7% of the Jewish population. That’s .023 of the population, so .023 X 6.000,000 = 138,000

      138,000/(200,000+138,000) = 138,000/338,000 = 40.8% of the 145+ IQ population is Jewish. And you said “40% of millionaires and billionaires are Jewish.”

      Isn’t it something how those figures dovetail?

      https://jordanbpeterson.com/psychology/on-the-so-called-jewish-question/

      Reply
  10. Corky

     /  October 28, 2018

    Talking of nutters, we need reminding they live amongst us. Nutters usually lose a sense of proportion and become fixated. That endless loop can lead to murder, violence and mental illness. But what of the quiet nutters? The humourless anti-life busy bodies. Do they quietly influence those around them, especially their children? And what happens when they gain a job with a certain amount of power of people?

    The one thing that stands out about nutters for me is their lack of humour and self deprecation. Sad to say, but it’s true…many of these people infest blogs and social media.

    Take this advertisement. I love it, not because of the Road Commander, but because of the lady acting the part of a compliance officer. She nailed the fuzzy bureaucrat speak, the confused demeanour when dealing with societies underclass..while trying not to offend.

    Yet two PRATS laid complaints about mudguards to the BSA. Unbelievable.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12149847

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 28, 2018

      Had to give you an uptick, Corks, since two humourless pricks down-ticked you.

      Reply
  11. Gerrit

     /  October 28, 2018

    This must be up there as a WTF moment for Labour.

    Why for goodness sake WHY? Why nor deport the thug that gets here on a false passport, commits a heinous crime and gets a residency card?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/108155476/jailed-drugdealer-escapes-deportation-as-govt-grants-him-nz-residency-behind-bars

    Sroubek would have come up for parole again next year, and was to be deported after completing his sentence.

    But yesterday, Lees-Galloway confirmed he had granted Sroubek residence subject to “significant conditions,” and after careful consideration of all information available to Immigration NZ.

    He would not say why he had granted the drug smuggler residency, or reveal the conditions.

    More Ardern “kindness”?

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 28, 2018

      Pretty weird case. Can only presume there is a near certain risk of injustice if he is deported.

      Reply
      • Gerrit

         /  October 28, 2018

        Why are we (as New Zealand citizens) worried what will happen to him when he is returned to the EU. Was he worried what his drug importation would do to New Zealand citizens? No.

        So why is Labour worried what will happen to him? This stinks to high heaven.

        Reply
        • David

           /  October 28, 2018

          I would guess he has been cooperating with providing info to some law enforcement agency for this result.
          Much as I would have liked to have smacked Galloway a little because I think he is an awful Minister.

          Reply
  12. Gerrit

     /  October 28, 2018

    For some reason the blockquote does not close by using html protocol.

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  October 28, 2018

      There is a bug that loses the / to close blockquotes occasionally..
      its happened to me may times .

      Reply
  13. chrism56

     /  October 28, 2018

    See the Greenland ice cap has gained mass for the second year in a row
    http://sciencenordic.com/how-greenland-ice-sheet-fared-2018
    Guess the massive predicted sea level rise from the cap melting has been postponed again.

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  October 28, 2018

      Told you repeatedly that Greenland had very high snow fall on the east coast this year
      You kept denying it despite the evidence presented .

      You have yet again have proven you cant read or understand that stuff you link to.
      Your statement “the Greenland ice cap has gained mass for the second year in a row.” is more made up rubbish from you.
      From your source.,

      We must wait for data from the GRACE-Follow On (GRACE-FO) satellite mission before we know how the total mass budget has fared this year – which includes calving and melting at the base of the ice sheet.

      By the way the high snow fall is linked to global warming .
      Warmer = more moisture in the atmosphere= more precipitation.
      I do know its more complex than that.
      But when you are dealing with someone who suffers from the peak of DK it is best to keep it simple.

      Reply
    • chrism56

       /  October 28, 2018

      As usual Griff, you can’t keep on topic. The Greenland ice cap has gained significant mass over the last two years. The mass gain is a lot greater than the summer melt. Therefore the contribution of sea level rise from the Greenland ice melt has gone.
      With regard to the rest of your stuff, it is white noise

      Reply
      • Griff.

         /  October 28, 2018

        Hello.
        I just pointed out your own link says that they do not know the mass budget of Greenland.
        I have also repeatedly pointed out to you that the surface mass balance of Greenland is how much snow falls less how much snow melts .
        It does not include how much ice falls off the edge of Greenland into the sea or how much ice melts from the bottom of the ice cap so is not a measure of the ice mass budget for Greenland.
        I have also pointed out to you were the DMI blog says this more than once.
        Here yet again https://www.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/

        For an ice sheet that neither grows or shrinks, there is at all points averaged over the year a balance between

        the amount of snow that falls and is compressed to ice
        the amount of snow and ice that melts or evaporates (sublimates) and
        the amount of ice that flows away due to the ice motion

        The two first contributions make up the surface mass balance. For the ice sheet as a whole, there is a balance between the surface mass balance and the amount of ice that calves into the ocean as icebergs.

        If climate changes, the surface mass balance may change such that it no longer matches the calving and the ice sheet can start to gain or lose mass. This is important to keep track of, since such a mass loss will lead to global sea level rise. As mentioned, satellites measuring the ice sheet mass have observed a loss of around 200 Gt/year over the last decade.

        Yet still you continue to post a positive surface mass balance must mean Greenland is not losing ice .

        You are proven either very stupid because you can not learn simple facts or clinically insane because your mind refuses to except simple facts .
        Or both…..

        Reply
  14. chrism56

     /  October 28, 2018

    As usual Griff you are proving the Dunning Kruger which you accuse others of. What does the word accumulated mean? Why do you think their graph goes up in winter and down in summer?

    Reply
    • chrism56

       /  October 28, 2018

      To make it easier for the mathematically challenged like you Griff, note how the SMB anomaly is now above the line and more than for most of the 60s..

      Reply
      • Griff.

         /  October 28, 2018

        ROFLMAO.
        Thick as pig shite.

        Reply
        • chrism56

           /  October 28, 2018

          Yes you are Griff. But you insults are at a slightly higher level of ad homs than you usually do when you don’t have the evidence to back up your opinions

          Reply
          • Griff.

             /  October 28, 2018

            Slowly
            You got your bullshite from some nutter source that knows its audience are Smegwits and play on their credulity.

            I have linked to your own source pointing out you are wrong.
            I have linked to DMI the source of the surface mass budget explaining why you are wrong.
            I have explained multiple times why you are wrong.
            And you still can not get it .
            It is not a smeging argumentum ad hominem it is a smeging fact .
            You are too stupid to understand that Greenland is losing ice from it falling into the smeging sea which is not measured by the surface mass balance.

            https://tenor.com/view/window-licking-stupid-licker-gif

            Reply
            • chrism56

               /  October 28, 2018

              As usual Griff, you haven’t got enough intellectual horsepower to pull the skin off a rice pudding. I used those “nutter” sources like NISDC, NOAA and DMI. While you use such reputable sources as cartoonists blogs.
              And here is how they use satellite laser altimetry (where DMI get their information from) to measure the accumulation and it matched GRACE,
              http://www.pnas.org/content/111/52/18478 But that was when the ice was shrinking, so no doubt in your tiny mind, it is all different now.

            • Griff.

               /  October 28, 2018

              ROFL
              DK
              Again
              DMI

              For an ice sheet that neither grows or shrinks, there is at all points averaged over the year a balance between

              the amount of snow that falls and is compressed to ice
              the amount of snow and ice that melts or evaporates (sublimates) and
              the amount of ice that flows away due to the ice motion

              The two first contributions make up the surface mass balance. For the ice sheet as a whole, there is a balance between the surface mass balance and the amount of ice that calves into the ocean as icebergs

              What you just linked to is a confirmation that ice is flowing away
              into the ocean as well as though the surface mass budget. .
              From your linked abstract.

              We present a new record of ice thickness change, reconstructed at nearly 100,000 sites on the Greenland Ice Sheet (GrIS) from laser altimetry measurements spanning the period 1993–2012, partitioned into changes due to surface mass balance (SMB) and ice dynamics.

              Note that in the paper “SMB” surface mass budget is evaluated as separate from ice dynamics .
              Your original link was only to one part of the equation as i have repeatably pointed out .
              You wonder why i laugh at you when you just confirmed what i have been telling you .

            • chrism56

               /  October 28, 2018

              Griff. Look at the date of the paper, It was when the ice cap was melting. This is what the graph posted earlier showed as the decreasing SMB. (hin’t it is the blue bars on the graph. Then look at the same graph 2016 onwards. You have comprehension problems.
              And don’t quote abstracts if you haven’t read the paper
              “We estimated a mean annual GrIS loss of 243 ± 18 Gt⋅y−1 (277 ± 7 km3⋅y−1), equivalent to 0.68 ± 0.05 mm⋅y−1 SLR for 2003–2009 (Tables S4 and S5). This mass loss and its interannual variability are in good agreement with the reconciled GrIS mass loss estimate derived from a combined ensemble of laser altimetry, GRACE, and IOM data (3). However, we detected higher average mass loss and interannual variability than the laser altimetry results included in ref. 3, bringing the laser altimetry, GRACE, and IOM estimates closer to each other (ref. 3, SI Text, and Tables S5 and S6), thus reconciling the previously perceived inconsistencies among different methods.” rubbishes what you wrote.

              But anyway, I will have to leave. As usual wind is totally useless and we have to burn a lot more fossil fuels to keep the lights on.

            • Griff.

               /  October 28, 2018

              Here is your original link that you claimed showed that Greenland is not adding to sea level rise.

              The end of August traditionally marks the end of the melt season for the Greenland ice sheet as it shifts from mostly melting to mostly gaining snow.

              As usual, this is the time when the scientists at DMI and our partners in the Polar Portal assess the state of the ice sheet after a year of snowfall and ice melt. Using daily output from a weather forecasting model combined with a model that calculates melt of snow and ice, we calculate the “surface mass budget” (SMB) of the ice sheet.

              This budget takes into account the balance between snow that is added to the ice sheet and melting snow and glacier ice that runs off into the ocean. The ice sheet also loses ice by the breaking off, or “calving”, of icebergs from its edge, but that is not included in this type of budget. As a result, the SMB will always be positive – that is, the ice sheet gains more snow than the ice it loses.

              For fucks sake it even says what I have been telling you
              Yet you claimed it says Greenland is not adding to sea level rise when your link points out it does not and can not .
              .

              And here is how they use satellite laser altimetry (where DMI get their information from)

              You are now claiming DMI use altimeters to construct the SMB when they dont its modeled on weather forecasts of snow fall and surface melt .
              Shows you did not understand or even read what you linked to in the beginning instead got it from some fuckwits source and did not bother to read it .
              The height off DK on mount stupid.
              ROFL
              Gee this is fun.

          • chrism56

             /  October 29, 2018

            You can lead a Griff to data but you can’t make him think.
            Go back to the PNAS paper and read it. You may need a dictionary to help you with the big words. Look at what dynamic means. Go through their data. The loss to calving was about 120Gt/year.Then learn how to suck the csvs out of the sources to plot them Mannomatic manipulations are a lot more common than they let on. And quote only papers’ conclusions, not abstracts or even worse, your stupid blogs.
            With regards to the DMI process, read how they validate the data on their snowfall model.

            Reply
            • Griff.

               /  October 29, 2018

              Pigeon chess!
              Hello chrism56
              You did not read your fist link and have been caught out yet again making up shite .

              I know you are really thick is time another one of your issues?
              Why would I go back to your paper it is dated December 30, 2014 it says nothing about Greenland 2017/ 2018.

              Even more amusing The other days bullshite about sea level not accelerating is incompatible with your paper.

              I know it snowed a lot on Greenland this year we had another session of teach the DK when you claiming that it had not . You are getting all heated about the weather this year and ignoring climate change the long term trends.

              Greenland is only part of the equation for sea level acceleration the antarctic is far more significant.

              DK and pigeon chess .
              Repeatedly makes an arse of himself and is to thick too know it .

            • chrism56

               /  October 29, 2018

              As usual Griff, you are big on noise and short on facts- the hollow drum syndrome, All into talking points and abuse to cover up the fact that you are just innumerate.
              The IPCC said a significant proportion of sea level rise is from the melting of the Greenland icecap That paper was only up to 2009 data, showing you didn’t read it. But it did the reconciliation of the data sets, total mass balance and included the big 2007 melt. Which is why I referenced and described it as such. As the GRACE data shows the loss rate hasn’t changed, the data is still relevant.
              https://gracefo.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/33/greenland-ice-loss-2002-2016/ But that concept is beyond you, isn’t it.
              And you can’t even read the original article – it says “Snowfall over the 2017-18 winter was close to the long-term average ” so it didn’t snow a lot. Another wrongun. For a legend in his own mind, you are a total failure.

            • Griff.

               /  October 29, 2018

              Still has not let it get into his head despite linking to data that tells him more than once .
              The Surface mass balance MB of Greenland is snow fall minus snow melt .Greenlands ice sheet is also falling of into the sea.
              You can not claim Greenland is not contributing to sea level rise only looking at SMB . You also can not say anything about the last two years contribution to sea level until the data is in for the total mass budget of green lands ice sheet .
              Yet the DK suffering halfwit did and is still trying to defend it .
              No amount of slow and careful explaining is going to solve his issues with motivated reasoning.
              Its a psychiatric problem that would take a few years of counseling to resolve if ever.
              Best to just laugh at the loony.
              ROFLMAO

            • chrism56

               /  October 29, 2018

              As usual Griff, your bullshitting bluster shows you haven’t read what the IPCC actually wrote. They have got chapters on it. They specifically say the opposite to what you write (which isn’t unusual)
              “This recent trend towards increasingly less positive SMB is caused
              almost entirely by increased melting and subsequent runoff, with variability in accumulation being comparatively small”
              Looks like you are the denier of the science.

            • Griff.

               /  October 29, 2018

              ROFL

              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

              ― George Carlin

              Still going on about the SMB
              It is not the mass balance of Greenland but you are to thick to get that.

            • chrism56

               /  October 29, 2018

              You are now proving your own stupidity Griffy. Your quote, which Carlin didn’t originate, has backfired.
              The IPCC says “Observations indicate that the Greenland contribution to GMSL has very likely increased from 0.09 [–0.02 to 0.20] mm yr–1 for 1992–2001 to 0.59 [0.43 to 0.76] mm yr–1 for 2002–2011” and all the change was decreasing SMB as previously quoted. So the great acceleration was from the increased melt in Greenland. Read their report.
              Please tell us all exactly where the IPCC got it wrong. And of course you can supply quotes from relevant papers to support your case.

            • Griff.

               /  October 29, 2018

              320
              Chapter 4 Observations: Cryosphere4
              Ice Sheets
              The Greenland ice s
              heet has lost ice during the last two decades(
              very high confidence
              ). Combinations of satellite and airborne
              remote sensing together with field data indicate with
              high confidence that the ice loss has occurred in several sectors and
              that large rates of mass loss have spread to wider regions than
              reported in AR4.
              {4.4.2, 4.4.3, Figures 4.13, 4.15, 4.17}
              The rate of ice loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated
              since 1992. The average rate has very likely increased from 34 [–6 to 74] Gt yr–1
              over the period 1992–2001 (sea level equivalent, 0.09 [–0.02 to 0.20] mm yr–1), to 215 [157 to 274] Gt yr–1 over the period 2002
              –2011 (0.59 [0.43 to 0.76] mm yr–1).
              {4.4.3, Figures 4.15, 4.17}
              IIce loss from Greenland is partitioned in approximately similar
              amounts between surface melt and outlet glacier discharge

              (medium confidence)

              https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter04_FINAL.pdf
              Oh dear seems you lied again .
              AKA
              A fantasist who makes up shit .
              ROFL

              .

            • chrism56

               /  October 29, 2018

              I quoted same report chapter 13 so tough shit

            • chrism56

               /  October 29, 2018

              “Van den Broeke et al. (2009) concluded that the mass loss during 2000–2008 is equally split between SMB and dynamical change. Rignot et al. (2011) indicated that SMB change accounts for about 60% of the mass loss since 1992 and Sasgen et al. (2012) showed that SMB change, simulated byRACMO2 (Ettema et al., 2009, an earlier version of the model in Table 13.2), accounts for about 60% of the observed rate of mass loss during 2002–2010, with an observational estimate of the increase in ice outflow accounting for the remainder. This satisfactory consistency, within uncertainties, in estimates for the Greenland ice-sheet mass budget gives confidence in SMB simulations of the past, and hence also in the similar models used for projections of SMB changes (Section 13.4.3.1).”

              40% (the dynamic losses) of 281Gt/y is 112Gt/y, pretty close to the 120Gt/y I quoted upthread

            • Griff.

               /  October 29, 2018

              Nope you made it up if you can not give a link to the source.
              Fantasist
              rofl
              just makes up shite
              links to stuff he can not understand.
              Changes his argument all the time.
              ‘links to sources that contradict what he is saying.
              Denys what his own links say .
              Gets all confused and trys to use data that is not even in the period under discussion .
              Fails at math thinks a mean trend over the entire period means the data shows no acceleration.

              and thinks he is right and every major scientific body on the planet is wrong.

              so fuckin funny it hurts with laughing so much

            • Griff.

               /  October 29, 2018

              Quote “and all the change was decreasing SMB as previously quoted.”
              Now arguing that it was 60% and still using data that does not included the time period under discussion
              You could not make this shite up.

            • PDB

               /  October 29, 2018

              Best you quit while you’re well behind Griff – selective reading will only get you so far.

            • Griff.

               /  October 29, 2018

              claim number one .

              See the Greenland ice cap has gained mass for the second year in a row.

              He is quoting the SMB .
              It does not include the dynamic ice loss.
              his source says.
              http://sciencenordic.com/how-greenland-ice-sheet-fared-2018

              We must wait for data from the GRACE-Follow On (GRACE-FO) satellite mission before we know how the total mass budget has fared this year – which includes calving and melting at the base of the ice sheet. However, it is likely that the relatively high end of season SMB will mean a zero or close-to-zero total mass budget this year, as last year.

              He made up his first statement it was unsupportable if you read his source .
              Next three comment continue the lie looking at only SMB.

              Claim number two.

              And here is how they use satellite laser altimetry (where DMI get their information from) to measure the accumulation and it matched GRACE,

              DMI says/

              Here you can follow the daily surface mass balance on the Greenland Ice Sheet. The snow and ice model from one of DMI’s climate models is driven every six hours with snowfall, sunlight and other parameters from a research weather model for Greenland, Hirlam-Newsnow, and since 1 July 2017 the HARMONIE-AROME weather model. We can thereby calculate the melting energy, refreezing of melt water and sublimation (snow that evaporates without melting first). The result of this is a change in the snow and ice from one day to the next and this change is shown below. All numbers are in water equivalent, that is, the amount of water the snow and ice would correspond to if it was melted.

              https://www.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/

              next posts are gibbering about outdated data that do not prove what has happened 2016 to 2018.

              With regards to the DMI process, read how they validate the data on their snowfall model.

              They use grace .

              And you can’t even read the original article – it says “Snowfall over the 2017-18 winter was close to the long-term average ”

              what i said was” Told you repeatedly that Greenland had very high snow fall on the east coast this year” winter was not mentioned.
              Note east coast is not the average on the entire island you can see the unusually high east coast snow mass due to easterly weather patterns here

              More shit about SMB and quoting the IPCC from 2012 which is not 2017 2018 the period under discussion.

              Claim number three

              The IPCC says “Observations indicate that the Greenland contribution to GMSL has very likely increased from 0.09 [–0.02 to 0.20] mm yr–1 for 1992–2001 to 0.59 [0.43 to 0.76] mm yr–1 for 2002–2011” and all the change was decreasing SMB as previously quoted. So the great acceleration was from the increased melt in Greenland. Read their report.

              I quote the IPCC report that says something very different to his unsupported gibbering.

              Quotes some papers that give a ratio between SMB and dynamic ice loss .They are not of the time period under discussion and fail to prove his initial statement . What they do do is provide evidence that his focus only on SMB was wrong to start with and his quote from the IPCC was a lie.

              yess I am losing.
              On planet right wing nutter.
              Back here on earth chrism56/all on red made an arse of himself yet again.

            • chrism56

               /  October 30, 2018

              As usual Griify, you are trying to reframe the argument.
              The original article was a reprint from Carbon Brief but it was being reprinted. The comment about waiting for GRACE was because the authors can’t admit that the icecap is growing, especially when it would destroy their meme that the melting icecap was the significant cause of sea level rise. Chapter 13 of AR5 has a lot about it. That is why I quoted that, and the sources reference by that and earlier versions. But your Google searches showed you don’t actually read anything with big syllables.
              The rest of your shit is just that. You are living proof of that great Marx quote :”He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don’t let that fool you. He really is an idiot.”

            • Griff.

               /  October 30, 2018

              The comment about waiting for GRACE was because the authors can’t admit that the icecap is growing, especially when it would destroy their meme that the melting icecap /

              Gibbering loons bat man .
              A real live conspiracy nutter .
              ROFLMAO

              Its fuckin weather DK .
              It will go back to the normal cycle and loss from SMB as DMI point out in your first link.

              Oh and all on red we know you get your shit from crank blogs.
              If you got it from the actual source you would not make quite as much of an arse of your self all the time .

              xxx Griff.

  15. lurcher1948

     /  October 28, 2018

    SAYING THE TRUTH
    Corkys hero

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 28, 2018

      Trump opens mouth, Lurch faints.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  October 28, 2018

        Let’s start a ”give a little page” for Lurchy.

        One week later…only Kitties copy of ”Latin For Bloggers” has been pledged.😄😁😄

        Reply
  16. Gezza

     /  October 28, 2018

    Oh God. :/ Just heard John Campbell poncing on in a rugby item just as I was switching it off. It reminded me I’ve seen a few items with him sanctimoniously droning on lately since the idiots got him back on. It was great not to have to listen to his smug overdone slow-motion pontificating. Sorry.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  October 28, 2018

      Terrible what a radio studio has done to a man. Very pale and now wearing horn rimmed glasses. I saw him do an article on erosion in the South Island. He still hasn’t learnt to wear the correct foot wear for said occasion. Brown leather lace-ups just aren’t part of the West Coast scene.

      Reply
  17. “Paula Bennetts role in organising a media story base on complaints from women working ‘in national partys leaders office’ should be made public. A National party woman MP role in in getting back at her former lover using the leaders office/Bridges and Bennett should be made public.”

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  October 28, 2018

      Need to add links to the crap you quote Robert so we can avoid the nutters at all costs.

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  October 28, 2018

        Can’t have you accidentally reading something that wasn’t written by the National Party’s Comms team, PDB! Your brain would fizz and bubble something awful!

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  October 28, 2018

          Don’t be afraid of posting where you get your quotes from Robert, we already know you visit sites filled with crazy, bitter people so you can’t possibly be further shamed or embarrassed.

          Reply
  18. sorethumb

     /  October 28, 2018

    It is not a traditional Māori concept and the way it is used in the legislation is at odds with the development of the concept. The Waitangi Tribunal accordingly disapproves of the use of the term mana whenua generally, and particularly disapproves of its use as part of the definition of tangata whenua in the Resource Management Act:26 The term “Mana whenua” appears to have come from a nineteenth-century Māori endeavour to conceptualise Māori authority in terms of the English legal concepts of imperium and dominium. It links mana or authority with ownership of the whenua (soil). But the linking of mana with land does not fit comfortably with Māori concepts. Recent research tends to agree that the term “mana whenua” itself does not appear in the early records about customary rights to land. … These opinions confirm that the term “mana” was personal and was used in regard to the influence authority of chiefs. Other opinions compiled in the Appendix consider that mana whenua was a nineteenth-century invention.

    This criticism of the use of the term “mana whenua” as part of the definition of the term “tangata whenua” has also been adopted by the Environment Court. The Court concluded that it was not appropriate to use the term Manawhenua Iwi in a District Plan.27 The Court adopted the criticisms made by the Waitangi Tribunal of the term mana whenua and considered that the use of the term as a proper noun, Manawhenua, did not resolve the concern over the exclusivity implied. Justice Durie has commented extrajudicially that one way in which the term was used historically, not only implied exclusivity, but it also implied exclusivity in a negative way – that is, the term was used in order to assert control to the exclusion of others, often at the beginning of a war or other dispute over the resource in question. It was thus not a term to be used in a peaceful context such as in legislation.28

    https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/vuwlr/prev-issues/vol-42-2/Iorns.pdf

    MONOPOLY OR LEGITIMATE VOICE FOR THE REGION?

    Sacha McMeeking, the head of Canterbury University’s School of Māori and Indigenous Studies, says attaching the monopoly label to Matapopore’s rebuild role is misleading.

    As mana whenua, the iwi with authority over the land, Ngāi Tahu has a mandate similar to a local council, she says.

    https://matapopore.co.nz/a-matter-of-trust-iwi-voice-in-christchurch-rebuild/?

    Reply

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