Open Forum – Thursday

1 November 2018

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106 Comments

  1. robertguyton

     /  November 1, 2018

    What’s all this about the Chinese would-be Nat MP facing “company probe” for supplying an incorrect address, for which he’s liable for a $10 000 fine?
    ” A businessman being groomed for a political future with the National Party appears to be in breach of the Companies Act…”

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  November 1, 2018

      Trivia that will be resolved by a “Please fix” as per usual from the Companies Office. All the addresses were owned by these two.

      Reply
    • phantom snowflake

       /  November 1, 2018

      I have a different take on this altogether. Why the hell should the (private!) residential addresses of company directors be available to anyone who can use Google? Many people are company directors, and they’re not just ‘Rich Pricks.’ (That’s for the one or two of you who may think ‘Rich Pricks’ don’t deserve privacy.) Because of this requirement of the Companies Act, a huge number of people, including probably most public figures, are never safe from harassment by reporters, stalker exes, and disgruntled shareholders for example. We don’t take privacy very seriously in this country.

      Reply
  2. robertguyton

     /  November 1, 2018

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/108180804/national-partys-political-prospect-colin-zheng-and-business-partner-yikun-zhang-in-breach-of-companies-act

    “Zheng and Zhang are leaders of the Chao Shan General Association of New Zealand, an organisation Zhang established in 2014 for Chinese-New Zealanders from Chaoshan, a region in the coastal city of Guangdong in China.

    Descendants from the region are called Teochew. There are more than 10,000 Teochew in New Zealand and 50 million worldwide.

    Next year 1000 high-powered Teochew will come to Auckland for the 20th Teochew International Conference, of which Zheng is executive chairman.

    On Friday it was revealed Goodfellow and two MPs had been made honorary chairmen of the 20th Teochew International Conference.

    Zheng, 33, became a New Zealand resident through the skilled employment category in 2007.

    More than 100 companies were removed from the Companies Office register in the 2018 financial year for failing to comply with a request to confirm or correct residential address information on the register.”

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  November 1, 2018

      Good to have these dodgy connections exposed to the light.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  November 1, 2018

        What exactly is dodgy about any of this?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  November 1, 2018

          I haven’t really bored into it in detail but I think all the business connections between Chinese-owned companies (very much all still at the command of the CCP) and National party functionaries and former luminaries need to be kept a very close eye on and that their regard for their own personal fortunes accruing for these might make them blind to some things like economic pressure that may place our country and some governments at risk of economic coercion or their being used as “useful idiots” for the CCP. My comment is therefore general rather than specific. I’ve got a shrieking pukeko female in my yard (and now patio) that wants attending to, back later.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  November 1, 2018

            Maybe there are dodgy connections but I haven’t seen any reported and certainly not in the article cited.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

              Ok. National’s biggest dodgy connection imo is, but I reckon Shipley and others are probably too much in China’s pocket and thrall too:

  3. PartisanZ

     /  November 1, 2018

    Even Peter Dunne, who I have very little time for, thinks Aotearoa NZ should just get on with creating a Constitution and becoming a Republic …

    ‘Time to grasp the constitutional nettle’

    “We should not wait for the Queen to pass away before we finally transition to a republic, we should just get on and do it, says Peter Dunne.”

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/31/300832/time-to-grasp-the-constitutional-nettle

    The Bitch … I’m gonna call him ‘The Bitch’ … can I do that?

    The Bitch makes no mention of all the work done by CAP, Constitution Aotearoa or Matike Mai Aotearoa … Hell, even Muriel Newman conducted an NZCPR ‘in-house’ so-called ‘Independent’ Constitutional Review Panel in 2013 – no doubt feeling ‘excluded’ from the CAP process which they, the Right Brigade, attempted to derail with their “cloned submissions” – and even more excluded from Matike Mai, a Maori process which they, being Pakeha, obsessively wanted to control – and 1173 of 1222 submitters were miraculously against a codified Constitution let alone the inclusion of Te Tiriti o Waitangi in it … (I always suspected Te Right Brigade had about 1100 paid-up, card carrying members) …

    Dunne [Done] also assumes we will have a Parliament with a PM ruling a Cabinet that rules a government … and all the trappings of so-called ‘democracy’ we have now … He believes the question can be considered quickly and resolved quickly by a referendum …

    So its debatable whether his even raising the issue is helpful in the slightest? Westnumbster as it is now is the last thing we should inflict on our mokopuna … Retain the best, forget the rest, rename it all … Marae Ture/Legislative Assembly …

    I agree we should get on with it before Kuini Irihapeti passes away … but I guarantee we won’t have finished the process before she does …

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  November 1, 2018

      I think it’s new word #180 … *Westnumbster* …

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  November 1, 2018

        I think that one’s particularly childish. Just saying.

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  November 1, 2018

          Imminently suitable for Dunne’s commentary then!

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  November 1, 2018

            No. But it is for yours.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

              And think maybe you meant “eminently suitable”.? Maybe check those two words out and let me know? Gotta go see how ma’s doing in hospital – play nicely, PZ. Ka kite ano. Hugs n hongis

            • PartisanZ

               /  November 1, 2018

              Oh Lord … a Gezza/Kitty hybrid …

            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

              I told you to play nicely, but I knew you wouldn’t. Did you look it up? Which word did you really mean? Imminently might be what you went in some quasi-philosophical conceptual sort of way.

            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

              *went = want. gotta go. Hugs n hongis.

            • PartisanZ

               /  November 1, 2018

              You served Gezza … I’m simply returning …

            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

              I’m not even on the court, PZ.

            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

              You still haven’t said what word you wanted. Was it eminent?

            • phantom snowflake

               /  November 1, 2018

              I’m gonna go with “Immanently“, meaning inherently or intrinsically.

            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

              i’m gonna go with he meant “eminently” but he’s too seething with rage to admit it.

            • PartisanZ

               /  November 1, 2018

              Your pedantry about this word is meaningless to me Gezza …

              You sure can spin out your attempts at points scoring though huh?

            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

              You are incredibly lacking in self-awareness aren’t you? You are the one who’s spinning this out. Still haven’t said what word you wanted, returning “serves”, and obviously still seething with rage. Me, I don’t care. I’m just seeing how long the rage lasts.

    • Griff.

       /  November 1, 2018

      As one of the 1173 of 1222 submitters I know your conspiracy is nonsense.
      I made a submission, that was totally independent of anyone else’s, that rejected a written Constitution with the treaty at its core .

      You want apartheid.
      Overriding power for maori written into our democratic system.
      That would not benefit us all it would benefit a very small number of unelected maori elite.
      It is not going to happen .

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  November 1, 2018

        NZCPRs little ‘in-house’ exercise was almost completely meaningless. The Union members voted to stay in the Union … or perhaps more correctly the Confederate members voted to cede from the Union?

        Muriel and Co’s was at best a childish attempt to create a White-Right-Wing biased version of what they saw as a Brown-Left-Wing biased CAP.

        No way was CAP ever talking about a Treaty-based Constitution …

        No way are Palmer & Butler talking about a Treaty-based Constitution …

        Both were or are only talking about the placement and authority of the Treaty amidst an essentially Westminster system, or “clarity and certainty” for Te Tiriti o Waitangi in any Constitution constructed here in Aotearoa New Zealand … because of our peculiar, unique South Sea Island circumstances …

        Oh … guess what arguably the single most unique circumstance of the founding of ‘Niu Tureni – New Zealand’ and our South Seas Island experience is? TE TIRITI O WAITANGI …

        Only Matike Mai Aotearoa are talking about a Te Tiriti and Tikanga based Constitution … One of their suggestions, to be reviewed in 2021, is a Tricameral representative ‘sphere’ system …

        Lo-and-behold they’re talking about it for the good of everyone … and, remarkably … they’re talking about it better than the others are at NOT talking about it …

        But no … unfounded terror still fills the hearts of the 1173 …

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  November 1, 2018

          Panel Profiles
          http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/ArcAggregator/arcView/frameView/IE28514444/http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/

          Emeritus Professor John Burrows QC (Co-chair)

          Sir Tipene O’Regan (Co-chair) (Ngāi Tahu)
          Perhaps best known for leading the negotiations for two of the largest Treaty settlements

          Peter Chin

          Deborah Coddington

          Hon Sir Michael Cullen
          Sir Michael is currently the chair of New Zealand Post and principal Treaty Claims negotiator for Ngāti Tūwharetoa

          Hon John Luxton
          Mr Luxton, a former Minister and electorate MP, is currently a farmer, company director and consultant. He has expertise in government, governance, Crown-Māori relations and community connections.

          Bernice Mene

          Dr Leonie Pihama (Te Ātiawa, Ngā Māhanga a Tairi, Ngāti Māhanga)
          Dr Leonie Pihama is a mother of six and a grandmother of two. Dr Pihama is currently an Associate Professor and the Director of Te Kotahi Research Institute at the University of Waikato. She has worked as a senior lecturer in Education at the University of Auckland, teaching in the fields of policy analysis, Māori women’s issues, and the politics of representation of indigenous peoples

          Hinurewa Poutu (Ngāti Rangi, Te Āti Haunui a Pāpārangi, Ngāti Maniapoto)
          Hinurewa Poutu is a doctoral student at Massey University and a teacher at Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Mana Tamariki. She is a graduate of kura kaupapa Māori, with an academic and work record in studying, researching and teaching te reo Māori.

          Professor Linda Tuhiwai Smith (Ngāti Awa, Ngāti Porou)
          Linda Tuhiwai Smith is Professor of Education and Māori Development and Pro-Vice Chancellor Māori at the University of Waikato

          Peter Tennent (Te Aupōuri)

          Dr Ranginui Walker (Te Whakatōhea)
          Dr Ranginui Walker was a member of the New Zealand Māori Council and the World Council of Indigenous People.

          I count more maori on the review panel than non Maori
          I also note that even among the non maori there is a heavy bias toward the treaty within its membership.

          The CAP was loaded with Maori voices and those with a maori perspective.
          It was a racist skewed panel that did not represent all NZ fairly.
          Despite its heavy bias towards maori in both the panel membership and the process the submissions from the rest of us were so strong as they were forced to reject the treaty.

          “NZCPRs little ‘in-house’ exercise was almost completely meaningless. ”
          Just as meaningless as the IWI working groups is.
          Neither represent NZ or its people .

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  November 1, 2018

            I grant you CAP was in large part a SOP to Te Maori Party and therefore a somewhat flawed process. It was racially skewed, not racist.

            It was much like every other John Key ‘Appointed Panel’ and one in particular comes to mind … The Flag Panel and Flag process … a political joke best forgotten … lest it be deemed an act of political depravity …

            The need for the Constitution-building process NOT to be politicized is exactly why the relative independence of Constitution Aotearoa is so important and one that the next few governments must definitely progress … So much quality groundwork has been done …

            Nonetheless CAP gave voice to sections and cohorts of the population, including your own … If it’s best recommendation was to continue the Constitutional conversation then it was probably worth it … although it did a lot else besides …

            The need for ‘independence’ of Matike Mai Aotearoa is without question. Maori needed and created their own place to korero about the subject and in doing so they did themselves proud. 252 hui compared to CAPs 100 public meetings! Matike Mai’s findings are nothing short of remarkable … Spectacular IMHO … and that is largely because WE have a Treaty to reference …

            So, okay, I retract my statement that NZCPR’s exercise was meaningless.

            It clearly meant something to its 1100+ members and a few others … just as Matike Mai means something to the 10,000 people who attended hui kanohi ki te kanohi and their 843 written submitters …

            I still think NZCPR’s effort was childish though, given they had CAP and Constitution Aotearoa to submit to. I think they did it in childish spite because at those those other forums they look like the relatively small Far-or-Alt-Right, narrow-minded – certainly at least partially racist – radical activist fringe group they actually are …

            There isn’t any one group that “represents New Zealand and it’s people” … It doesn’t exist … It never did!

            The Right Brigade’s insistence that it once did exist is a sure sign of racially motivated delusion … The very thing they accuse Maori of …

            Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  November 1, 2018

        Oh and Griff … so I was right about the numbers … 1100 co-dependent submitters … with 73 independent submitters opposed to Constitutionality … and 39 independents in favour …

        That is: Not a representative sample of the population in general but 39 independents who could be bothered contaminating themselves by visiting NZCPR’s website … … NZCPR is a fringe group like ACT is a fringe party …

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  November 1, 2018

          You must be wrong, Parti. If you were right you’d get some guy licking a glass window.. the link that is..Gezza would have to open it. 🕵️‍🕵️‍

          Reply
          • Griff.

             /  November 1, 2018

            actually corky
            I rate PartisanZ far higher than screen licker .
            He might be biased but he does try to make sensible well research comments and I enjoy the odd debate with him
            I dont call him names or give him much shite because underneath it all I actually respect his point of view as a valid part of the conversation.
            You on the other hand …….lick lick.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  November 1, 2018

              On the other that’s a load of bullshit. You came after me. I tried to reason with you; you weren’t interested. I even apologised for using your name in a wrong manner and have never repeated that mistake as promised.

              That fact is you hate someone who gives as good as he gets..that leaves you with your only option..being a puerile childish troll.

            • Griff.

               /  November 1, 2018

              ROFL
              You reply was not even wrong .

              Not even wrong refers to any statement, argument or explanation that can be neither correct nor incorrect, because it fails to meet the criteria by which correctness and incorrectness are determined. As a more formal fallacy, it refers to the fine art of generating an ostensibly “correct” conclusion, but from premises known to be wrong or inapplicable.

              The phrase implies that not only is someone not making a valid point in a discussion, but they don’t even understand the nature of the discussion itself, or the things that need to be understood in order to participate.

            • Corky

               /  November 1, 2018

              ”Not even wrong refers to any statement, argument or explanation that can be neither correct nor incorrect, because it fails to meet the criteria by which correctness and incorrectness are determined.”

              So you can’t use a childish gif because that would confirm my above comments..so let’s move to bullshit and bluster and confuse him with that while trying to score a point.

              But…if we wanted to..I don’t, we have physical evidence that could be dredged up to prove my point..it’s called ”past posts.”

              I don’t need to cut and paste.

              But whatever, you still have to explain why you insist on posting a dude licking a window.

              Away you go, and no cutting and pasting. Try to string some coherent sentences together..if you can.

            • Griff.

               /  November 1, 2018

              The window licker is someone retarded who makes no sense at all .
              Wanna see another one ?
              Find a mirror.
              Most of what you post is total nonsense .
              Like cloud busters , providing usable energy from zero point energy
              or claiming that our prime minister has absolute power and we dont have a Constitution.
              You can not debate with some one who makes no sense all the time,whose ideas have no connection to the real world we live in and whose words do not use the agreed to meanings we can all understand .
              it is pointless so I just post the window licker as in thats what you are doing.
              https://gg.govt.nz/office-governor-general/roles-and-functions-governor-general/constitutional-role/constitution?utm_source=newzealandnow.govt.nz
              https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cloudbusting
              https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

    • Richard

       /  November 1, 2018

      Aotearoa………no such place,made up name getting flogged to death.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  November 1, 2018

        That’s important input into the Constitutional discussion … thanks Richard.

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  November 1, 2018

        You do realise that Zealand is a bastardized spelling of Zeeland, and to mean anything sensible it should have been New Zeeland ? Yes ?

        So that means it is actually a made up name, no such place, been flogged to death.

        Kiwiland is the name this country should have. Fuck all the other suggestions. One Maori language word, four letters, that represents who we are widely known as, with affection, overseas, and one English word, four letters, that represents this I am tangata whenua from four generations back and my whanau has now taken it to 6 generations.

        So we native born Pakeha Kiwis ain’t going anywhere but where we originated, and whatever our ancestors did wrong four or five generations back to Maori Kiwis needs to be apologised for, redressed to the extent that is realistically fair and possible given we are not collectively responsible for the deeds or our antecedents, with good will and pono korero between the Crown and Nga Iwi concerned.

        And we all need to learn the honest, unexpurgated truth about our shared history, the rights and wrongs we did & do to each other and to others not of our own respective iwi – and to say sorry, and mean it, because this is done in diplomacy and we are speaking not to “Maori” but to individual Maori nations, and work out how we go forward together, in harmony and with mutual respect for the other, and recognising that we don’t own this land: it owns us.

        This is how I see it.

        Kiwiland. That’s the right name for this country – I now just need to get everyone who isn’t a wanker on board with it.

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  November 1, 2018

          “Everyone who isn’t a wanker” is a fabulous motivational strategy there Gezza …

          You might be able to sell that to a political party, spin doctor or think tank? Maybe try Muriel and Frank at NZCPR.

          I have trouble with ‘Kiwiland’ though, and for a number of reasons.

          1) I find it a bit like changing the name of The United States of America – which is about as meaningless as ‘South Island’ – to Tatankaland after the Bison, Bull Bison or “He who owns us” …

          Hmmm … actually Tatankaland would probably be better. Tatanka has ‘gravitas’.

          But ‘Kiwi’ has become very flippant … cuddly toy-like … also quite controversial – there’s considerable White-alignment with ‘Kiwi’ – and also product-alignment, marketspeak specifically for a fruit of Chinese origin …

          2) We might change our name to Kiwiland at about the same time the Kiwi becomes extinct and no-one can come here to see it.

          3) Fly ‘Air Kiwiland’? Kiwiland Cheese? The Kiwiland All Blacks?

          If the origins of Aotearoa are correct, it goes back to the original ‘discovery’ of Te Ika a Maui by Kupe …

          “As with many Māori place names, the context from which the name derives is important. Traditional accounts suggest that Hine-te-aparangi, wife of well known pacific navigator/explorer Kupe, after a long ocean going voyage, sighted a particular cloud aotea that usually indicates the presence of land. The term roa can also indicate a length of time. Thus, a more accurate translation could be ‘It has been a long time since seeing a cloud that indicates land’.

          Aotearoa is commonly given as the Māori name for New Zealand. Before the arrival of Europeans to the New Zealand, it probably only referred to the Te Ika a Maui (i.e., the North Island).”

          http://www.maorilanguage.info/mao_defns.html

          Kupe’s wife’s utterance upon sighting land will do me … Thanks …

          Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  November 1, 2018

          If you want to apologise to dead people for things your ancestors might have done to them you will be spouting b.s. into the wind for a very long time, Sir Gerald.

          As for the land owning us, it doesn’t. That is why we are free to come and go on it.

          You can call this country anything you like and everyone else can call it what they like. We own our own names.

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  November 1, 2018

            Yeah, yeah … I dig it Alan …

            “Where do you mean when you say ‘New Tyranny’?”

            “Orhh, yeah … you mean New Zeal LotLand”

            “Yeah, nah … I’m from New Tweeland … You?”

            “Nah … Eweland’s fallen out of favour … same with Kiwiland … I prefer Dairyland and more and more I’m liking New Pineland”

            “The Land of the Long White Shroud?”

            To much kawhe …

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  November 1, 2018

              You own your own names, PZ, or they own you.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  November 1, 2018

              If it’s going to be Zeeland, it should be Nieuw Zeeland, pron. as in ‘eh’ rather than zayland.

          • With the passing of time the NEW bit will no longer be relevant, and the Kiwis (birds) maybe gone… then what ? I have no problem with the maoris’ name. It will always be the land of the long white cloud.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

              it’s too much of a mouthful and too many people from overseas will be forever calling it ayoteearower. Awful. New Zealand’s no good either. Adding the two together like some prats do is just making the whole problem worse. And it ain’t one land – it’s really 3 islands, the long white cloud of legend was over te ika not pounamu or rakiura.

              Nope. We need to come up with something more punchy that embraces both Maori and English (stuff the other nationalities this about the treaty between two language-speakers. The other language-speakers are onlookers and always will be.

              And as I say above it’s not maori land or pakeha land its OUR land. Until people get that idea through their thick heads there’ll always be antagonists from Maori and Pakeha sides screaming abuse at each other.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  November 1, 2018

              I like NZ, it’s punchy, unique and easy to spot. So the long form can stay and it’s been on the maps since 1642 and as long as there have been maps of this part of the world.

              Sir Gerald can whistle in his wind.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  November 1, 2018

              PS: (Serves Sir G right for opting to stick with our silly old flag.)

            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

  4. lurcher1948

     /  November 1, 2018

    Corky an UNEMPLOYED racist Trump…supporter
    Video worth watching
    https://t.co/CQs18M8YXG

    Reply
  5. lurcher1948

     /  November 1, 2018

    JLR is coming back and will name the National MP he was bonking, should be interesting

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  November 1, 2018

      He already named her and the media didn’t report it. This sounds like simple malevolence that most people will find abhorrent and disgusting.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  November 1, 2018

        And, while he remains a National MP … they’ll also find it dripping BLUE slime …

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  November 1, 2018

          Except he’s not a National MP now, he’s officially an Independent.

          Reply
          • Zedd

             /  November 1, 2018

            True Alan.. BUT he sounds like he is crawling around, to avoid being ejected from parliament & has given ‘his proxy’ back to Natl

            ‘If it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck.. chances are it IS a duck !’ regardless of some missing feathers ?

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  November 1, 2018

              It’s a fucked duck, Z. Don’t think many will be interested in it.

            • PartisanZ

               /  November 1, 2018

              Doesn’t change the duck’s walking, swimming and quacking … or the fact the duck’s SITTING with National …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  November 1, 2018

              I doubt the duck’s doing any of those things, PZ. And considering the feelings National has towards it, the adjacent seat is probably an appropriate punishment. I doubt the duck will occupy it often.

  6. Blazer

     /  November 1, 2018

    making money’ out of thin air…good work if you can…get it!

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=12152050

    Reply
    • High Flying Duck

       /  November 1, 2018

      Don’t worry Blazer – John’s on to it!

      “ANZ chairman Sir John Key is pushing for stricter banking regulation regardless of the findings of a conduct and culture review due to be released next week.

      Speaking at an Infinz conference in Auckland, the day after ANZ reported a record $1.99 billion profit in New Zealand; the former prime minister said dramatic change was coming to the banking sector.

      That included new legislation recommended by the Hayne Royal Commission in Australia and Key said he had already suggested to Reserve Bank governor Adrian Orr to look at adopting the same outcomes here.”

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12152872

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  November 1, 2018

        Nice one, HFD. So B, which do you hate more, Sir John or the banks?

        Reply
      • Blazer

         /  November 1, 2018

        nothing new here.

        ‘yes we have been ripping you mugs off for years..but we are going to improve from here on in,we’re sorry but we do not need an inquiry like in Oz to expose the shameless lack of ethics or moral virtue that drives our rapacious appetite for profits..for our masters..the U.S bondholders and majority shareholders.Sheep need to be ..shorn.

        Reply
  7. Zedd

     /  November 1, 2018

    I watched the committee stage of the; Psychoactive Subst. (Increase penalties) Mbrs bill by S Brown (Natl). It is yet another knee-jerk reaction by Natl to be ‘Tough on DRUGS’ (Synthetics) even though the original law was passed under the previous Natl Govt, to legalise them !

    The bill will likely pass due to support from NZF ?

    BUT: I think the best comments came from Green MP Chloe Swarbrick: (paraphrased)
    The original bill was to set up a LEGAL framework, until there was a public hysteria/backlash, which saw the law put on hold. Now these substances have gone underground & this has resulted in 45+ deaths in the last year.
    Under the original law there was a testing/licensing regime to only allow a license to sell those products deemed ‘Low risk’ (but not Natural herb). This all went out the window when the law was effectively repealed & they went to the black-market.
    The new bill is effectively trying to make, at least two of these products, in the same category as Class B drugs under current MODA. Why not just move them from the Psychoactive Subst. act to the MODA ?
    IF prohibition is what is really driving this bill !

    Mr Little said that this is just more prohibitionist/ Tough on Drugs & crime Rhetoric & was likely to see the prisons overflowing, as a result. He (& Lab/Grns) are calling for it to be treated the same way, they are moving on cannabis (& all drug use) as a HEALTH ISSUE, not a criminal justice; arrest, prosecute & punishment/LOCK EM UP approach.. a 20th century FAILED policy 😦

    It was interesting to hear NZF speaker saying they support the bill, but also hear what Lab./Grns (their Govt.) are saying too; treat it as a health issue, NOT a criminal one.
    I wonder whether they are, actually sitting on the fence; with the ‘Tough on DRUGS’ talk ?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  November 1, 2018

      is it ok if I call you Zeddo affectionately sometimes, not often, just when I especially like something you’ve posted? Corky’s got all bitter and twisted that you didn’t mind me doing it but I said I had your permission, sort of, because I’m a nicer person and you know I meant it affectionately and not as a put down?

      (I’m off to visit ma in hospital so I’ll check back later. No probs if you would prefer I just call you Zedd to prevent confusing Corky into thinking he can too. Later, bro 🙂 )

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  November 1, 2018

        hey Gezza
        Call me what you like (but I thought PG was saying only actual names or initials ?)
        ‘Zeddo’ by another, often sounds condescending (IMHO) 😀

        I hope you Ma is OK

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  November 1, 2018

          Cheers Zedd. PG is a very wise elder who knows how to read people and exercise appropriate discretion – and where necessary to administer correction only where he considers the intent to have veered beyond the bounds of good manners, good humour, & polite discourse.

          Hope so anyway. I bank on it, tbh.

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  November 1, 2018

          Ma’s having a few post-op woes today, but when we talked to the medicos they are well within the bounds of normal, in fact they indicate that things are beginning to start working again, as they should. They’ll monitor to make sure there’s no problem but all the signs are good her surgery is successful. Ethan the resident said to her that she’s in there for two weeks and getting a close eye kept on her because at 91, she’s a high risk patient – but that’s because at that age she won’t heal as fast as a younger person. And they have every confidence in her. As I left to catch the shuttle she said to me: I actually feel a lot better now. Just knowing what’s happening seems to have made it less sore.

          Reply
    • just watched Q-time (#9) Simeon Brown quizzing Andrew Little; (paraphrased) ‘do you agree that increasing prison penalties.. will reduce supply & use’ (Outdated/prohibitionist B-S)

      great to see Chloe S (Grn) jump in & bring some rational context to this issue; Regulation & Health care is the better approach. the WAR on Drugs is a total failure & his Mbrs bill is just seeking to continue down this, nonsensical track to NOWHERE.. fast !

      Reply
      • High Flying Duck

         /  November 1, 2018

        Have you seen Simeon’s bill?
        It proposes treating drug use as a health issue for users, but retaining punitive action against manufacturers, importers and dealers – just like in Portugal, which is the model Chloe Schwarbrick is fond of.

        Here is his take on the issue, and is well worth a read:

        https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/30-10-2018/a-middle-ground-on-drug-laws-simeon-brown-responds-to-chloe-swarbrick/

        Reply
        • phantom snowflake

           /  November 1, 2018

          That’s a great piece of mindfuckery from Simeon Brown. Presenting a hardline Social Conservative/War On Drugs stance as being some kind of moderate middle ground. Give me a break! It was a big mistake selecting the likes of Brown and Simon O’Connor in such solidly National seats; they’re stuck with them now.

          Reply
  8. Corky

     /  November 1, 2018

    Take corporal punishment away and you get this. ..a classroom brawl. The kids only were suspended. Wow, I bet that hurt!

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12152584

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  November 1, 2018

      So … Okay … Let’s take a moment to actually THINK about this …?

      The fact we now have cellphone cameras whereby a brawl like this can be filmed, and an internet with social media whereby it can be broadcast to the world, must mean brawls like this never happened before those things existed, Right?

      Prior to the abolition of corporal punishment these kids would just have been caned … and that would have prevented such a thing EVER happening again, Right?

      In the absence of corporal punishment that will fix everything, the fighting kids shouldn’t just be suspended, they should be expelled, either ending their school careers or foisting their behaviour problems onto another school, both of which are bound inevitably to fix their behaviour problems, Right?

      What’s wrong with these statements?

      The RIGHT part …

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  November 1, 2018

        ”The fact we now have cellphone cameras whereby a brawl like this can be filmed, and an internet with social media whereby it can be broadcast to the world, must mean brawls like this never happened before those things existed, Right?”

        Yes, correct, as a general rule. I saw one, one on one fight in a classroom in all my years at school. Both received a solid six straps..started crying and moaning, and never repeated fighting in a classroom again.

        ”Prior to the abolition of corporal punishment these kids would just have been caned … and that would have prevented such a thing EVER happening again, Right?”

        Wrong. Depends on the teacher. The severity of the situation, and whether a warning had been given. Just because corporal punishment was available doesn’t mean it had to be used.
        Apart from the two strapped for fighting in a classroom, I never saw someone receive a whack who hadn’t been warned beforehand.

        I did note some Maori teachers would give Maori kids who couldn’t be controlled even with c/p, a Maori hiding. That was straight out assault and included booting, punching and head- slamming. Once a padded baton was used. Cruel, but very effective for toughnuts.
        These type of kids now have free reign. I hope your grandkids never meet one.

        ”In the absence of corporal punishment that will fix everything, the fighting kids shouldn’t just be suspended, they should be expelled, either ending their school careers or foisting their behaviour problems onto another school, both of which are bound inevitably to fix their behaviour problems, Right?”

        Well, YOU need to do some thinking here, Parti. Where did these kids come from? What else can a school Do apart from nothing? Where has discipline gone? We seem to be going around in circles. Never happened before..what has changed?

        You wanted Marxism, you have it. I find it hard to believe someone living up North is living in such a bubble.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  November 1, 2018

          Crikey, Parti, Kitty has a point…I looked up the word’ rhetorical’

          Meaning: I went with point 2.

          ”(of a question) asked in order to produce an effect or to make a statement rather than to elicit information.
          “the general intended his question to be purely rhetorical”

          Crikey, that would make for an interesting commentary.😃😃😃

          Pseudo intellectualism always catches itself out. Enuf said.

          Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  November 1, 2018

        Er, PZ, will you tell Corky ‘where these kids come from’ ? You’re a boy, so it’s better if you do it.

        I sincerely hope that the violent assaults by teachers, that would have landed them inside had they been charged with them, existed only in Corky’s fevered imagination.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  November 1, 2018

          And I wonder if there’s any point in telling him what a rhetorical question is, so that he doesn’t take them literally….probably not.

          Reply
  9. Corky

     /  November 1, 2018

    Muslims go berserk as Christian woman is set free by court. If they get her, or the judges, they are dead.

    Who is the boss of this country? Oh, Imran Khan, a dude we played cricket with. He is talking big but will he do anything?

    We let these type of people into our country.

    https://www.ncronline.org/news/world/pakistan-court-sets-aside-death-sentence-woman-convicted-blasphemy

    Reply
  10. lurcher1948

     /  November 1, 2018

    David Farrar and Kiwiblog gets his feral rightwing base going with a new nickname,at least its idiots posting to idiots with a few dangerous posters mixed in
    That’s a great analogy. Shrek.

    We should all refer to him as Minister Shrek in future. Let it be his new nickname for now and into the future.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  November 1, 2018

      I had no idea what/who you are talking about, Lurch, until I went and read Farrar’s post. To save others the trouble:

      Shrek because the Minister has had the wool pulled over his eyes – your favourite columnist: Mike Hosking.

      Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  November 1, 2018

      And for god sake,his pst Farrar was based on a post by Mike Hosking,the right stoop to LOW levels for material

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  November 1, 2018

        Sad to say it seems to be you stooping for this material, Lurch.

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  November 1, 2018

        Politics is so cruel, Lurchy. Just a few days ago you were in clover with the JlR affair. Hardly rates a mention at the moment.

        As for Shrek..he was shorn in parliament today by National.

        Reply
  11. Gezza

     /  November 1, 2018

    QUICK YNZ READER/POSTER SURVEY

    Steak and Mushroom pie: 4 minutes in microwave ? – uptick
    or
    NW cooked 1/4 chicken, steamed veges, roast potates: 20 minutes total in micro – downtick.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  November 1, 2018

      Sorry, I had to down tick you for using a microwave. Microwaves change the structure of food. That benign Steak and Mushroom pie could damage your DNA. The next thing you know you are posting like Lurchy.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  November 1, 2018

        I’m going to let you off for that downtick with a warning because it looks like you are under the influence of something that is making you irresponsible for your own actions.

        If you do it again for such a ridiculous reason, you can expect the full force of The Force, so just remember that, Laddie! 😡

        Please see a professional at your earliest convenience. They are the people best placed to guide you out of the strangeness.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  November 1, 2018

          PS: Thank you for your vote for the chicken.

          Reply
        • Griff.

           /  November 1, 2018

          Its the lint he gets from licking windows ‘.
          Turns his brain to fluff .

          Reply
        • Corky

           /  November 1, 2018

          Lol..unfortunately I wasn’t joking. But I promise next time to keep my mouth shut.
          But, yeah, the Chicken is the way to go.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  November 1, 2018

            Good man. Still have every hope you might eventually come right with the right kind of support and encouragement. Small steps, lad. Small steps. 👍

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  November 1, 2018

              If it did change DNA, there’d be no point in saving anyone’s DNA, given that almost everyone uses a microwave,

            • Gezza

               /  November 1, 2018

              Thanks all for completing the survey.

              Despite the result, I’ve gone for the pie because it only actually needed 1 m 30 sec in the micro – and because I’ve had a tiring day, doing chores, visiting ma, and worrying a little bit about her – like sons do – so something really quick and easy became the favoured choice of the two.

              However – she insists that I only go all the way in and visit her every second day, and that we just continue our twice daily phone calls to check the other one is still alive on the off day, because she will be getting other visitors, she needs her rest between walks which are tiring, and she only starts to worry about me doing too much – the way mothers do – when I said I was happy to come in every day .

              So, looking at the survey, it’s pretty clear the favoured option of the two is the chicken & veg, which is a lot healthier, a lot tastier, which I will now have tomorrow & which will taste even better for having been looked forward to with relish the whole day. I may even do it for lunch.

  12. Corky

     /  November 1, 2018

    Labour kicks renters in the guts..renters just don’t know it yet.

    https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/letting-fees-to-be-abolished-within-weeks-after-bill-passes/

    Reply

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