Open Forum – Monday

12 November 2018

Forum

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38 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  November 12, 2018

    Not only is Donald Trump a draft dodger, but he’s scared of rain as he cannot handle umbrellas and what about his…hair
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/twitter-pelts-trump-with-photos-of-barack-obama-in-the-rain_us_5be76113e4b0769d24cdebb7

    • lurcher1948

       /  November 12, 2018

      Morning brave downticker,

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  November 12, 2018

        s.

        I have seen video of Trump with an umbrella, walking off and leaving Mrs T to get wet. It was a big enough one for two.

        He may be afraid that his hair will dissolve. Whatever the reason, it was a feeble excuse.

      • unitedtribes2

         /  November 13, 2018

        Sorry lurcher. The number 9 downtick was me. I was just checking if one person could downtick more than once. To counter this I will also give you an uptick. I want be offended if you downtick this.

        • unitedtribes2

           /  November 13, 2018

          Bugger. When I gave you the uptick the number 9 downtick disappeared

  2. Corky

     /  November 12, 2018

    Great to see the NZDF read my suggestion regarding drones, an is acting upon my recommendations. Along with Australian drones our part of Oceania will have 24 hour surveillance capabilities.. big savings without sending ships and aircraft on patrol. Of course, the question is: ”will the drones be armed?”

    Well, let’s see what Air Marshal Kevin Short had to say in his interview.

    “Remotely-piloted air systems – I’d rather call it that than drones, Air Marshal Kevin Short said.”

    That’s a probable,no.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/defence-force-wants-unmanned-aircraft-mid-2020s

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  November 12, 2018

      I wish that I could believe that you don’t really believe that those people read your suggestions and acted on them.

  3. Corky

     /  November 12, 2018

    Er, what’s up at The Whalers? I went to get my daily dose of Righteousness and couldn’t find todays. Must be my browser.

  4. unitedtribes2

     /  November 12, 2018

    Is it just me or have I been banned from looking at Whale Oil as well. Nothing seems to be there since Sunday nightcap.

    • unitedtribes2

       /  November 12, 2018

      Seems it not just me. Their site is down. Any conspiracy theories

      • PartisanZ

         /  November 12, 2018

        The last passenger has abandoned ship …?

      • MaureenW

         /  November 12, 2018

        Well, they’ve gone away. Site down, nothing on Twitter. Really isn’t any loss, as I mentioned above, the site is a mess of games, ads for meat and other goods, subscription requests, videos and cut and paste material from other sites.

  5. robertguyton

     /  November 12, 2018

    “National think that being in opposition involves getting back power at all costs..

    Their MP’s are tasked as being snipers, taking endless shots at the coalition, in the hope of winging as many as possible.

    Representing New Zealanders in Parliament is obviously not part of their job description.”

    KJT https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-12-11-2018/#comment-1549060

    • High Flying Duck

       /  November 12, 2018

      I think you missed the clue Robert – they are the “Opposition”.
      Their job until such time as they get back into power is to oppose.
      Some may see that as negative, but devils advocacy is an important and useful way of ensuring plans, policies and opinions are properly formulated and thought through, with consequences and outcomes able to be fully justified.
      In other words they are there to find flaws and point out opportunity costs in the policies implemented by the Coalition. They do this to make sure the policies being implemented are justifiable to the public.
      Unfortunately this has devolved somewhat in recent years to personal attacks and gotcha politics, which is genuinely unhelpful.
      But this is how oppositions are meant to represent NZ’ers.

      It is also why Labour were so bereft for many years in opposition – they were simply unable to articulate alternatives and coherently critique the Nats. It meant an important check and balance was not functioning and arguably led to some bad policy making getting through.

      • robertguyton

         /  November 12, 2018

        Opposition, you say, HFD! Well, well! What a come-down for them. Are you suggesting National MPs aren’t sniping obsessively at the Government Ministers; that the 3000 questions to Shane Jones alone isn’t evidence of a “swamp them with questions” strategy that goes beyond what’s needed to simply “hold the Government to account”. You don’t believe National are running an active “trip ’em up over minutae and constrain their ability to do stuff” programme that runs counter to the needs of New Zealand and New Zealanders? We don’t agree on this issue. Bridges stupid behaviour around the election of the Speaker is the perfect example of the ‘spoiler’ behaviour National is indulging in. It’s o t admirable at all; sports teams who do that are eventually reviled.

      • robertguyton

         /  November 12, 2018

        “Unfortunately this has devolved somewhat in recent years to personal attacks and gotcha politics, which is genuinely unhelpful.
        But this is how oppositions are meant to represent NZ’ers.”
        Did you read what you wrote here?
        Personal attacks and gotcha politics is not “how oppositions are meant to represent NZ’ers” imo. Seems you’ve accepted a collapse of standards. Not me.

        • High Flying Duck

           /  November 12, 2018

          You conflated. I wrote exactly what the purpose of Opposition was. I thn pointed out it has devolved – on both sides – to personal attacks.
          Then I went back to the point that Opposition – in the manner of devils advocacy – is what they are paid to do. If you got lost along the way I’m sorry for your deliberate ignorance.

          • robertguyton

             /  November 12, 2018

            The point I was making at the beginning, HFD, is that National are doing what you have described as the “devolved” form of opposing. And that is what they are doing, not the ideal opposing you described.

  6. PartisanZ

     /  November 12, 2018

    It’s Good News Monday –

    ‘Draining the swamp kauri swamp’ – Newsroom

    “A long-awaited Supreme Court judgment says rough sawn slabs of indigenous timber and lightly carved logs are not “finished” items and their export is illegal.”

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/11/11/316843/draining-the-swamp-kauri-swamp

    • robertguyton

       /  November 12, 2018

      How do you think, Judith, the company that was circumventing the rules, will get around these new ones?

    • Corky

       /  November 12, 2018

      Why is its export illegal?

  7. robertguyton

     /  November 12, 2018

    To try to thwart the greedy.

  8. lurcher1948

     /  November 12, 2018

    Is everyone aware Larry Willians was an old school traffic officer, you remember the type “miss you are going 2 km over the speed limit” and he suffesr from hair loss and I’m a nasty rightwinger nasty cop,, but NZME saw a possibility in my rightwing NASTY, suck on it snowflakes, i bore you every day from 4pm

    • Corky

       /  November 12, 2018

      Lurchy, Whaleoil is only accessible to us Righties now. No more covert visits for you, son.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  November 12, 2018

        Lurch, I don’t know how old someone who calls you ‘son’ must be.

  9. MaureenW

     /  November 12, 2018

    About time too. A haven for pedophiles – they should lose their tax-exempt status and come with a warning like cigarette packets, except pictures of children being abused.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/108539993/government-expands-abuse-inquiry-to-churches-and-faithbased-insitutions

    • PartisanZ

       /  November 12, 2018

      The pictures might be going a bit far Maureen but I otherwise whole-heartedly agree with you …

      Charitable status and commensurate tax exemption should be thoroughly investigated across the board regarding the entire ‘Charitocracy’ IMHO.

      Perhaps set a relatively high percentage level at which funds raised must go directly to beneficiaries and/or to support volunteers which, if reneged upon – meaning funds are primarily paying directors fees, stipends, salaries, wages, cars and travel etc or accumulating assets and/or funds unnecessarily – results in a high rate of tax penalty?

      Maybe “relief of poverty” should mean the money goes to the poor?

      • MaureenW

         /  November 12, 2018

        Yep, I agree about the pictures – it was tongue-in-cheek

  10. PartisanZ

     /  November 12, 2018

    “Our simple social heuristics do not constitute a formally consistent system, like arithmetic (why would they?). Instead, they are a diverse bunch of often contradictory gut feelings and moral reactions each triggered by particular contextual cues.

    For example, we do have strong intuitions that people should not take a benefit without paying a commensurate cost, but these intuitions only get triggered when certain sets of features are present in the situation.

    These features include: the resource is scarce enough every additional unit of it is valuable to me; the resource was created by deliberate individual effort; the person taking the benefit is somehow dissimilar to me, so their interests are not closely tied in to mine; and it is feasible to monitor who is getting what at reasonable cost.

    The features do not always obtain: the resource might be more plentiful than anyone really needs; its acquisition might be mainly due to luck; the other people might be fundamentally similar to me, or their interests closely bound up with mine; or the cost of monitoring who got what might be prohibitive.”

    Another awesome article from Evonomics –

    ‘How Universal Basic Income Solves Widespread Insecurity and Radical Inequality’

    Answering the four big objections from critics of UBI.

    http://evonomics.com/nettle-daniel-defense-universal-basic-income/?utm_source=newsletter_campaign=organic

    More tomorrow …