‘Ping the Government for everything imaginable’ versus positive politics

In response to Robert’s comment:

“Robert, what state do you think our democracy would be in if less people tried to make a positive contribution, and more people tried to piss on the political parade?”

Dunno, Pete, but if fewer people “tried to make a positive contribution”, we’d be worser off 🙂 How many of your commenters here, Pete, make positive contributions, rather than negative ones, do you reckon, given that the game seems to be ‘ping the Government for everything imaginable’?

In particular “given that the game seems to be ‘ping the Government for everything imaginable”.

You seem to see everything as pinging the Government but I don’t think this characterises this forum at all.

Of course the Government will usually get more attention than the Opposition. That’s been pointed out to you by others. But that’s not all criticism, it is also support and praise when warranted. And there are a lot of other topics covered here too that have little or nothing to do with our Government, like Trump and the US, the Middle East, the UK, Europe and Muslims, and climate change generally, and the universe.

Actually your game seems to be to ping anyone you deem anti-Government for everything imaginable – with very few arguments in support of the Government, just petty dissing of anyone and anything you don’t like or agree with.

You say this blog is right wing, but most forums are likely to look right wing from your far left perspective. That doesn’t make them so.

You’re one of the most consistently negative people who contribute here. Why don’t you try to add more positive views and more constructive arguments?

One of the most negative things in political debate is the tendency to always oppose people with different views. Even Opposition MPs don’t always oppose the government, they work alongside the Government and are often working with them. That just doesn’t get much media coverage.

Your repeated attempts to disrupt and trash discussion here is not as extreme as the attempts by Slater, Spring and Nottingham to use (abuse) the legal system to shut us up and shut us down, but your intent seems to be similar.

Instead of trying to improve things you aim seems to be to make them worse. In a way this your divisive ‘us versus them’ approach is similar to Trump’s.

If everyone who disagreed with anyone attacked them rather than debated with them and learned from them we would have a very crappy country and a very crappy world.

I think that most commenters do more to make positive contributions to political discussion here than you do. I sometimes agree with them, I sometimes don’t. I see that as normal and as a positive for discussion.

I think that allowing and encouraging opposing and varying views is important for political and social discussion, because our society and our civilisation is full of varying views.

Every Prime Minister, every Minister, every party and every MP contribute to our country, mostly with positive intent and to the best of their abilities. But they deserve examination, they must be held to account, and they sometimes deserve criticism (as well as praise).

And every political forum can contribute to the functioning of our democracy. I think that Your NZ is playing a small but useful part in that, despite the attempts by a very small number of people to trash it.

Robert, you could contribute more positively here, and that would provide more positive support for your favoured Greens and for the current Government than what you are attempting now, which I think is quite negative for you and for the party, government and politics you represent by association.

Leave a comment

42 Comments

  1. artcroft

     /  November 22, 2018

    Well said.

    Reply
  2. Ray

     /  November 22, 2018

    Time for a banning PG.
    Robert has been getting increasingly shrill as his beloved Greens clutch the baubles of power and stuff up.
    He used a phrase the other day about rising the tension which seem to mean his constant negativity was just a merry jape to fill in his day.
    Time to go.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  November 22, 2018

      No disagreement with your 3rd sentence, but what are the Greens’ “stuff ups”?

      From my perspective they’ve managed to get some measures implemented that are not popular with some, even me, but that doesn’t make them “stuff ups”.

      Reply
  3. Ray

     /  November 22, 2018

    A stuff up is in the eye of the beholder Gezza.
    Putting off culling Tahr, cause it might orphan their babies.
    Allowing more water bottling
    Allowing land to be sold to Johnny foreigners
    Etc.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  November 22, 2018

      It certainly is, it seems. I don’t see any of those as “stuff ups”.
      I see them as listening to concerns and being prepared to make changes to accommodate them on reflection/examination. Or finding themselves obligated to comply with legislation because they haven’t been able to change the legislation. In other words, experiencing power and acquiring political maturity.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  November 22, 2018

        Just to illustrate my point a stuff up is a flag change referendum, turfing people out of houses on known rubbish meth tests, giving the winter energy payment to millionaires are stuff ups.

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  November 22, 2018

      ”Putting off culling Tahr, cause it might orphan their babies.”😄

      Reply
  4. The only reason why I am not here these days

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  November 22, 2018

      Since I’ve previously had my say about Robert’s contributions I’m resisting the opportunity to pile on here, but I’m really saddened by your comment, trav.

      Reply
    • I’m sorry to hear that.

      As you know, I go to some lengths to allow people to have a say here, and I can’t (won’t) block people because others don’t like what the comment, otherwise this would be a ghost blog. At it’s against principles of free speech that I strongly support.

      I just hope that Robert doesn’t see this negative effect as some sort of success. That would be sad for democratic processes and discussion, and for free speech, which is seriously threatened by many attempts to shut down different views.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  November 22, 2018

        I just hope that Robert doesn’t see this negative effect as some sort of success.

        Um … come on Pete. You can’t be that naive.

        Reply
        • I don’t know how aware he is of the actual implications of what he seems intent on doing. He seems to see it as a game. I wonder what he would personally say to traveller.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  November 22, 2018

            Pete for heaven’s sake. Look at his contributions. All he does is target people with inane questions and demand detailed responses while generally never giving anything worthwhile in response to requests for the same from him. He’s been trolling this blog and bugger all else.

            Reply
      • PDB

         /  November 22, 2018

        End game is Robert wants PG to ban him as PG has been banned on The Standard at times & complained about the injustice of it all.

        Reply
  5. David

     /  November 22, 2018

    Well said Pete and it had to be said. I find the vast bulk of Guytons comments make little sense or are totally irrelevant to the post and the comments section goes off in a weird direction.
    YourNZ is pretty balanced and a lot of the posts are topical but apolitical and he still has a crack at you just for covering them. I miss Blazer who at least you could engage with.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  November 22, 2018

      I’ve actually been missing those…ellipses!
      He did at least from time to time expand on his tweets and make some valid criticisms or good points – or post links that did.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  November 22, 2018

        Where is he?

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  November 22, 2018

          Sorry, Gezza, applying enough barrier cream to make removing the tar and feathers easier, took longer than I expected. Plus, I’ve been on-line, learning breath-holding techniques in readiness for the dunking-stool, so I’m just about ready to face my accusers. If you’ll just give me a little longer to make arrangements for the collection of my body parts, the drawing and quartering can commence.

          Reply
    • Corky

       /  November 22, 2018

      My cuzzie saw him doing a boogie in a Rarotongan night club. She said it was like the Maybot, except all movements were done in steps of three. She also said his high-vis vest made him a target for mosquitoes.

      Reply
  6. PDB

     /  November 22, 2018

    I’ll swim against the tide somewhat and say let Robert be. I must admit I’m disappointed in his childish approach on here, especially considering he does have something of a public profile. Unfortunately for the Greens he only confirms the stereotypical image many have of their supporters however that too serves a purpose on a blog such as this and banning people as some suggest is not the answer.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  November 22, 2018

      I agree. The best outcome is that he learns to debate and think properly and adds a sane and informative Lefty PoV.

      Reply
    • Ray

       /  November 22, 2018

      Well yes, that is a fair point, it is as if he does really want to be banned so as to make a point or so lacks self awareness that he doesn’t see how silly some of his antics are.
      I do note that he does have his own blog, though it has a rather small readership and not many posts, it is quite interesting if you like nice photos of insects and garden stuff.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  November 22, 2018

        And he doesn’t invent endless stories about himself and his family and acquaintances as Corky does, then fly into a tizzwozz when these are challenged and/or shown to be untrue because they can’t be true. I wonder how many people have been turned off YNZ by him.

        Reply
  7. The Consultant

     /  November 22, 2018

    I say let him be. He also got himself banned years ago on Kiwiblog as “Village Idiot” and “Greenfly”, under the previous points system.

    KB has a different system now, with the accumulation of “strikes”, which gain steadily longer bans, so he’d likely survive there longer now. Only one person has hit ten strikes and been permanently banned – the nutter known as “Kea”, but it’s an example of DPF’s free-speech attitude that that person has returned to comment under at least one different guise.

    So Guyton could probably survive for a long time now on KB.

    However, given what I see here, nothing about him has changed: super-partisan on the Greens, super-ideological in his hatred of “The Right”, absolutely uninterested in having any discussion, basically every comment he makes is explicitly or implicitly preening about his supposed moral and ethical superiority: trolling in other words.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  November 22, 2018

      It’s a question of how many posters stop posting because the blog gets so full of crap.

      Reply
  8. kiwi dave

     /  November 22, 2018

    Pete – banning Guyton would seem to be the last resort, only when he continues his nonsense. Besides, who would I invariably downtick if not Robert?

    Reply
  9. duperez

     /  November 22, 2018

    When you go to a public meeting and someone constantly yells and screams all sorts of inanities so that others can’t hear or concentrate or get a word in and a reasonable discussion can’t be held, what do you do?

    When a class of kids and their teacher are trying to do something and can’t develop any continuous lines of concentration and co-operation because one kid constantly interrupts and chucks stuff around, what do you do?

    At least in an online forum you can simply not engage and move on after employing the highest level on the ‘Ignore’ switch.

    Reply
    • artcroft

       /  November 22, 2018

      “When a class of kids and their teacher are trying to do something and can’t develop any continuous lines of concentration and co-operation because one kid constantly interrupts and chucks stuff around, what do you do?”

      These days all you an do is instruct the sane majority of the class to leave the room and let the bonkers child get on with destroying the classroom. True story

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  November 22, 2018

        No need to tell me, Arty. I have seen it first hand. In the olden days it was simple…the errant little prick would be corralled by teachers; dragged into the cloakroom and thrashed. Of course, such incidents were rare in times past..why? Because kids knew the consequences .

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  November 22, 2018

          You WOULD have seen it first hand….yeah, right.

          You may have seen children being thrashed. no school that I attended resorted to thrashing (probably illlegal as it would count as assault) although teachers did use the strap as a last resort. And it wasn’t done in the cloakroom. Teachers were not that stupid or reckless.

          Reply
        • Corky

           /  November 22, 2018

          Warning..know all on deck. Also clairvoyant.` Step up..have a life reading.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  November 22, 2018

            No, thank you. There are some real clairvoyants, but I doubt if you’re one.

            You might try reading your own life and sorting out truth from fiction before you offer the service to other people people. .Hint; don’t claim personal experience of quite so many things, like the head teacher who took 8 hours even with help from you to prepare for the next term. Most teachers would love to spend so little time on it.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  November 22, 2018

              And do see if there is such a thing as a circuit head.

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