Open Forum – Saturday

1 December 2018

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24 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  December 1, 2018

    Finally environmentalists are realising mangroves are a curse not a blessing:
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/science/107867275/the-fight-to-slow-the-mud-invasion-as-erosion-strips-soils-and-clogs-estuaries

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  December 1, 2018

      … and the land is rising faster than the sea.

      Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  December 1, 2018

      “The unappealing, oozing mudflats and mangroves are the price paid for deforestation and agricultural development.
      There’s your problem, right there; not the mangroves, which are a solution.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  December 1, 2018

        Locally the mangroves are DoC reserves for heavens sake. The idiots think they are wonderful. Even more stupid is that landowners adjacent to them have to get DoC permission to light a fire as if they would ever burn.

        Their roots trap mud that would otherwise wash away. They colonise in the deeper water first and then spread back towards the shore as they trap the mud behind them. They are destructive pests and DoC and the religious environmentalists have been treating them as untouchable sancturies.

        Reply
      • Gerrit

         /  December 1, 2018

        No mangroves are not the solution;

        “Do mangroves protect estuaries and harbours from becoming filled with sediment off the land and sand from adjacent beaches? We do not believe so. Mangrove propagules establish in soft sediments away from waves and currents. Young plants accumulate mangrove mud (which is several times more resistant to erosion than unconsolidated sediment), but well-established plants trap very little. Instead, channelling occurs, whereby suspended sediment travels past and through a forest. The effect of the trees shifts to the reduction and alteration of water flow, which can result in increased flooding in upper-harbour areas and reduced flushing. Choking of a harbour with sediment can result. This in turn reduces the sediment supply to beaches, potentially accelerating coastal erosion.”

        Huge misconception that mangroves filter the runoff from farm land. They do but once established they are the northern equivalent of Wilder Pine Trees. Totally mot ecologically suitable.

        On the Manukau at least large tracks of mangroves are cut down, chipped and turned into compost to let the harbour “breath” again.

        Fish stocks are increasing (even catching snapper at Weymouth). Harbour is cleaner (admittedly having the sewerage treatrment works improved has helped as well) and not just for the local ecosystem but for us humans to enjoy as well.

        Worth a read

        https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/mangroves-allies-or-invaders/

        “New Zealand is the only country in the world where the mangrove is expanding its area of occupation. Is this expansion good for New Zealand’s marine environment? We don’t believe it is, because it appears to be occurring at the expense of other habitats, such as shellfish beds, sea-grass beds, flounder habitat and wading-bird habitat, as well as recreational areas such as sandy beaches and stretches of open water.”

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  December 1, 2018

          Exactly, Gerrit. Another environmentalist fantasy destructive balls-up.

          Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  December 1, 2018

          Nature’s solution. Or at least, natural response. If we caused the issue by our land mis-use, we can hardly hate on the mangroves for trying to cover the damage.

          Reply
          • Gerrit

             /  December 1, 2018

            Mangroves exacerbate the damage, they do not solve any problem. Like Wilder Pines, cutting down the excessive growth is the only solution to estuary well being. Just like you would weed a garden, so we weed the estuary.

            Pacific oysters are a problem in the Manukau but with the cleaner harbour due to mangrove eradication, fish stocks are larger and feeding on the rampantly growing oyster beds to let nature do its thing.

            Have seen some big sharks out at Clarks Beach so the breading ground is pretty healthy. The big hole at the end of western end of the airport runway is getting good for fishing again.

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  December 1, 2018

              Mangrove turn misplaced silt and mud into a thriving ecosystem. That’s solving a problem nature abhors -a vacuum of life.

            • Gerrit

               /  December 1, 2018

              Yep it does, problem is that ecosystem is at odds with the previous ecosystem. Which takes precedent? Old or the new?

              Why are these people wasting their time trying to eradicate Wilding Pine if nature is a solver of problems?

              http://www.wakatipuwilding.co.nz/

              In the Manukau we have the various mudlark groups eradicating mangroves. In your neck of the woods you have pine eradication groups.

              You saying both are wasting their time and we should let nature just run it’s course?

              Your fellow greenies agree with you?

            • robertguyton

               /  December 1, 2018

              My views about wilding pines are not universally shared by my peers, Ray, no. I think it’s important to bear long-term sustainability in mind when taking on huge eradication projects like wilding pines, mangroves and predators. There’s little point, in my opinion, of pouring millions of dollars and person-hours into a project that might not be able to be financially sustained or can’t be completed for other reasons. As well, when those projects require the application to the environment of millions of litres of extremely toxic herbicides, rodenticides, mammalicides, etc, I am doubly cautious about supporting them.

            • It’s ironic that some people want to exterminate wilding pines while Shane Jones et al want to encourage the planting of millions of pine trees – they have just announced subsidising it.

              Wilding pines are seen as a problem in Central Otago, but there have been far more invasive and pervasive changes there in my lifetime from briar. Hills that were virtually bare (of bushes and trees) in my childhood are now blanketed by the prickly mass of briar (although theree was some briar then, we used to go rose hip picking, an awful job).

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 1, 2018

              What about GORSE ?

              At least briars and blackberries produce lovely fruit.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 1, 2018

              Mangroves are not a thriving ecosystem but a decaying, fetid, monocultural abomination destined eventually to turn esturies into dry land. So much for sea level rise threats.

  2. Maggie Barry accused of bullying behaviour.

    “National MP Maggie Barry has been twice investigated over bullying claims this year – including accusations she expected staff to do political party work on taxpayer time, which would be unlawful.

    The Weekend Herald can reveal two employees in Barry’s four-person office have accused her of bullying since May – one in a personal grievance complaint, and the other during the investigation of that complaint.

    The Weekend Herald has obtained documents which show that during its investigations in August this year, Parliamentary Service heard allegations that Barry:

    • swore and yelled at staff;
    • called an employee “stupid”;
    • used derogatory terms about other elected officials, which made staff uncomfortable;
    • referred to people with mental health issues using offensive terms like “nutter”;
    • discussed her employees’ sexuality in the workplace;
    • expected staff would do work for the National Party during office hours, which they felt unable to refuse while knowing it was wrong, because they were scared.

    One staffer told investigators he believed there was a huge power imbalance and that Barry was “terrifying” and could “destroy my career”.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12169084
    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-01-12-2018/#comment-1556694

    Reply
    • Mother

       /  December 1, 2018

      I see answers. I just need a voice. In an exam, an individual gets worried over the painfully simple questions, because there ‘might be a trick I’m not noticing.’

      The answers to our irritating nitpicking and serious bullying are simple. There are no tricks. Many people have the answers.

      Reply
    • You’ve been quite selective in your quotes their Robert.

      Post: https://yournz.org/2018/12/01/maggie-barry-accused-of-bullying-staff/

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  December 1, 2018

        You regularly select quotes for your posts, Pete. Are you suggesting I copy whole threads from The Standard and paste them here, rather than a selection?

        Reply
        • I’m not suggesting that. I thought you would have read the Herald article and not just relied on a Standard cherry picking of it.

          Did you read the whole Herald article? They provided different views of staff, and a response of Barry to accusations.

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  December 1, 2018

            Yep. I read it. There are some people who say they didn’t see her bullying anyone. There was some evidence presented:
            “However, the Weekend Herald has heard recordings which appear to show Barry swearing in a work context, and others where she appears to call a local board member “barking”, one a “waste of space”, and another “a duplicitous piece of shite”.”

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 1, 2018

              Hardly obscenities like fuckwit or cunt. (If one means these words, one should say or write them properly).

              Who hasn’t said that someone’s barking ? (Barking is one or two stops short of, I think, Colney Hatch) Or a waste of space ? Or a variation of shit/e?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 1, 2018

              Well, that’s what I heard as its derivation.

              Nutter isn’t the most offensive term, surely.If she said it in the House it would be improper, of course.

  3. lurcher1948

     /  December 1, 2018

    “Its alright when the right do it,”right no pun intended Kitty

    Reply
  4. PDB

     /  December 1, 2018

    George H.W. Bush dies aged 94 years old. A lot of CIA /govt secrets he would have taken to his grave.

    Reply

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