“Collapse of our civilisations” unless “rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society”

The climate change debate is ramping up internationally, and there are attempts to get a revolution off the ground here in New Zealand.

Rapid and far reaching changes in all aspects of society? Most people resist even moderate levels of change. And rapid change means high risks of unintended consequences.

Are we facing “the collapse of our civilisations” if we don’t accept rapid change?

Recent world headlines:

Deutsche Welle –  Germany protests call for leadership on climate action

From Berlin to Cologne, protesters have gathered to demand more from the government in the fight against climate change. Greenpeace said Germany must lead, and that means phasing out coal by 2030.

Euronews – COP24: Tens of thousands of climate change protesters march in Brussel

Tens of thousands of climate change protesters marched through Brussels on Sunday as the UN’s COP24 conference began in Poland.

The protest’s organisers estimated a record breaking 75,000 people took part, making it the biggest climate change march to have taken place in Belgium.

“We demand more ambition from our Belgian decision makers on the European and international level,” Climate Coalition Nicolas Van Nuffel said. “But this ambition also needs to be realised at the Belgian level. Since 2012, we have been waiting for a national plan for the climate which implies a strategy, in the short and long term.”

RNZ:  David Attenborough tells UN climate talks ‘time is running out’

The naturalist Sir David Attenborough has said climate change is humanity’s greatest threat in thousands of years.

The broadcaster said it could lead to the collapse of civilisations and the extinction of “much of the natural world”.

He was speaking at the opening ceremony of United Nations-sponsored climate talks in Katowice, Poland.

Sir David said: “Right now, we are facing a man-made disaster of global scale. Our greatest threat in thousands of years. Climate change.

“If we don’t take action, the collapse of our civilisations and the extinction of much of the natural world is on the horizon.”

Once force behind this rise in activism: Extinction Rebellion

FIGHT FOR LIFE

We are facing an unprecedented global emergency. The government has failed to protect us. To survive, it’s going to take everything we’ve got.

Extinction Rebellion is a campaign by the  network. We aim to promote a fundamental change of our political and economic system to one which maximises well-being and minimises harm.

Here in New Zealand last year Jacinda Ardern said that climate change was our new ‘nuclear free moment’, and also talked our climate change stance up at the United nations, but has since been criticised for not matching her words with appropriate action.

(The Spinoff) – What’s behind the surge of new energy in the climate movement?

Tired of the procrastination and timidity of government-led change, climate rage is now ripe for rebellion. Cordelia Lockett explains why. 

All mouth and no trousers. That pretty much sums up New Zealand’s response to climate change. A lot of words but little demonstrable action.

Our new government is promising large but delivering light.

However, that may all be about to change. In the last month, there’s been a sudden surge of new energy in the climate movement. In the United States, several cities (sensibly circumventing any hope of leadership at a federal level) have declared a state of climate emergency. The dynamic new congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is championing a visionary Green New Deal: a mobilisation plan to rapidly reduce carbon while simultaneously addressing associated social problems.

Australian kids are skipping school to protest about the climate. And in Britain a new people’s movement has emerged – Extinction Rebellion – which is disrupting the streets and spreading like wildfire.

In early October this year, the IPCC released a special report highlighting the catastrophic consequences of allowing global temperature increase to exceed 1.5 degrees. The tone was stronger and scarier than previous reports, and the wording unequivocal.

To have any hope of getting climate change under control we need to halve emissions by about 2030 and then drive them steadily down to zero by 2050.

And to do so, it says, would require “rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society”. That sounds to me like systemic change: a social, political and economic transformation, no less.

Our Prime Minister regularly mentions the issue in her speeches, even saying climate change is her generation’s nuclear-free moment. I agree. But where’s the bold programme of policy initiatives to match the strong words and size of the problem? We need leaders who act, not just talk about acting. Let’s do this.

The government needs first to acknowledge the scale and urgency of the problem by declaring a climate emergency and develop a credible plan to decarbonise the economy as quickly and as justly as possible. To do this will require a decent-sized tax on carbon and methane. Cars and cows: a scary agenda for many Kiwis, admittedly.

A massive education and social marketing campaign would help communicate the need for widespread change. This should focus on the financial and other costs of inaction, as well as the multiple benefits of a comprehensive, transition to a fossil-free, climate-protecting society.

Extinction Rebellion (XR) is a mass movement emerging from the long-standing UK social justice network Rising Up. It’s a response to climate inaction and incrementalism by governments, and instead advocates non-violent direct action and civil disobedience. XR’s radical campaign is sweeping through Europe and beyond. Local groups have cropped up all over the UK, and the spark has already caught fire in Canada, Germany, Sweden, the United States, Australia, Denmark, Czech Republic, France, Netherlands, Finland, Ireland, Switzerland, Scotland, Spain, Norway, India, Italy, Solomon Islands.

And Aotearoa. Here, there are groups springing up in short order: Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Thames, Waihi, Hamilton, Palmerston North, Nelson and Tauranga.

But why now?  Was it that latest IPCC report? Or the WWF announcing that we’ve wiped out 60% of the world’s vertebrate animals? Or the wildfires in California killing 88 people – with 200 still missing – and demolishing a whole township? Or the record-smashing Northern Hemisphere summer temperatures? Or just an idea whose time has come?

The speed of the XR pile-on shows a thirst for something big, a grand project. And collective direct action is a great vessel in which to pour one’s climate-related anger, fear and despair. It’s collegial and energising. Tired of the procrastination and timidity of government-led change and frightened by what is being called a direct existential threat, climate rage finally has a home.

It’s something of a cliche, but New Zealand really could be world-leading in its climate response. We have a vibrant indigenous culture of kaitiakitanga, practical virtues of courage and hard work, moral values of equality and harmony with the environment, and a legacy of taking radical political initiatives which have global impact. We can do it again with the climate crisis. It’s not only necessary: it may just be possible.

Are we heading towards “rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society”, or, as Attenboriugh claims, we face “the collapse of our civilisations and the extinction of much of the natural world is on the horizon.”

 

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85 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  December 4, 2018

    If they are so concerned about the natural world why don’t they top themselves and let it get on with doing what it does?

    Or is it the opposite that they are so concerned for their own skins they want the rest of the world to sacrifice their health and welfare to save themselves?

    Reply
    • Ray

       /  December 4, 2018

      Definitely the latter, they all flew to Poland and it is never “them” who have to make changes, always “us”.

      Reply
  2. Gerrit

     /  December 4, 2018

    All civilisations collapsed, this one will be no different. Once gone another will rise.

    Reply
    • Grumpy

       /  December 4, 2018

      True, but what the activists want is the collapse of “Western Civilisation”. Once gone, what do you think the Left wants to replace it with?

      Reply
  3. Than

     /  December 4, 2018

    I am getting so sick all this call for generic “action”. We get it, climate change is real and a serious concern. But be specific about what actions could be taken. Talk about exact policies so that the consequences can be analysed.

    Because so far basically every emission reducing suggestion I’ve heard about is either A) would only result in slight carbon reductions far less than what we are told is needed, B) is a pipe-dream based on unrealistic hopes about Green technologies, or C) would result in massive reductions in human lifestyle and quite possibly be worse than the consequences of climate change.

    One notable exception to the above, but which isn’t being talked about nearly enough – nuclear power. It’s proven, zero emissions, and can be implemented right now. Yes disposal of waste and the possibility of accidents are concerns… but if climate change is truly this huge existential threat, surely these are the lesser evil?

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  December 4, 2018

      The goal is to make everyone in the west significantly poorer. This is the truth behind the ‘climate justice’ mob.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  December 4, 2018

        I was in Europe at the time of Chernobyl. Thanks, but no thanks to nuclear power.

        What about those poor blokes in Japan who were risking their lives to fix a nuclear power fault ?

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  December 4, 2018

          One hydro plant failure (Sayano–Shushenskaya) caused more deaths than all nuclear reactor accidents in history.

          Banqiao Dam killed a thousand times more.

          Energy has a cost, thousands die every year mining coal.

          Reply
    • Gezza

       /  December 4, 2018

      Might have a read of that later.

      Reply
      • The Consultant

         /  December 4, 2018

        Oooopsss…..

        It’s a 20 minute YouTube. I should have put that note in.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  December 4, 2018

          No worries. You’re a consultant. I always expect them to miss something relevant. 👍

          Reply
          • The Consultant

             /  December 4, 2018

            🙂

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              Might watch it now I think. Fed Sweety and Alex. God I wish I could get that pook kid on tranquilisers. Talk about highly-strung.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              That video’s very interesting. I don’t like the idea of building nuclear reactors in NZ because of its geological instability & susceptibility to both severe earthquakes AND volcanic eruption (including the potential for new ones to pop up somewhere).

              Monitoring and proper management are critical. Slackness, familiarity breeding contempt, staff cuts, & poor design in various combinations seem to have led to most significant nuclear accidents.

              And they could also be a risk as targets for military and terrorist attacks; non-nuclear very-high-impact and explosive attacks could possibly negate safeguards.

              Nuclear waste management is still an issue, as even he acknowledges, and are further risks for attack during transport.

              But overall he makes a sound case for the inadequacy of alternatives where wind and solar are pushed as being up to the job of providing sufficient energy for large hi-usuage communities, like most cities and industries. They’re not. There’s not much prospect they will ever be.

              Tidal energy seems to have stalled or been too difficult too – and I expect storm surges and other freak natural events make them unreliable.

              I am persuaded that nuclear energy (in the absence, still, of anything less hazardous) is likely the best way to go to plug the huge gaps caused by shutdowns of fossil-based energy generation complexes.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              (In geologically stable countries in areas not prone to regular or even occasional weather disasters, like hurricanes, severe floods, and tornados.)

            • Pink David

               /  December 4, 2018

              If people who make the claims about how serious a threat climate change is were genuine, nuclear would have been the primary tool for reducing CO2 emissions in the last 20 years, supplemented with fracking.

              The simple fact that people who most believe climate change is the single greatest threat to the planet are also the same people who are most opposed to nuclear and fracking tells you something is very seriously off in their intent.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              … and probably their tent.

  4. The Consultant

     /  December 4, 2018

    But before watching that YouTube piece, have a listen to Marty Feldman

    Of course Feldman was making fun of fire and brimstone preachers, but it’s amusing how well it applies to this.

    Reply
    • The Consultant

       /  December 4, 2018

      Three downticks for good old Marty?

      Humourless pricks. 🙂

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  December 4, 2018

        Yeah I liked Marty. If you’re worried about downticks would you like my florist’s url?

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 4, 2018

          Remember the bus trip with him running after the bus squeaking ‘Wait for me! Wait for me!’

          I didn’t see why it was called At Last the 1948 Show for ages, I was too young to get it. I remember the Lovely Aimee McPherson and her Make the Lovely Aimee McPherson a Very Rich Lady Fund.

          Reply
          • adamsmith1922

             /  December 4, 2018

            It was a great show

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  December 5, 2018

              in depth analysis in 4 words.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 5, 2018

              I’d like to see it again, as some of the humour went over my head. but I remember nearly crying at him running after the bus.

        • The Consultant

           /  December 4, 2018

          I’m more worried about the mental health of people who would downtick that.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  December 4, 2018

            Tell me more…

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              When you talk of worry, can you describe what feelings you are experiencing, exactly … ?

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              What thoughts are running through your mind, and do you find they tend to preoccupy you? Do they crowd out other thoughts? Are you experiencing anxiety? How are you sleeping? Do you lie awake at night, wondering if they might find out who you are? Do you constantly imagine the worst possible things could happen to them & impact your life in negative ways you cannot explain?

  5. PDB

     /  December 4, 2018

    Famous botanist David Bellamy said his TV/public career was quickly ended when he publicly came out against man being the main cause of climate change & said any Co2 increases could only be good in the greening of the planet.

    He also said his great friend David Attenborough held the very same views as him but quickly changed sides of the debate when he saw that holding such views would also end his career.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  December 4, 2018

      Well, yeah, but then David Bellamy might well have said that because while David Attenborough’s got to be a dear, sweet old thing now, he totally eclipsed David Bellamy, who never struck me as particularly bright anyway.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  December 4, 2018

        Attenborough has become an hysterical alarmist. I don’t consider that particularly bright.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  December 4, 2018

          certainly not…dull.

          Reply
        • Gezza

           /  December 4, 2018

          I don’t consider calling hysterical particularly bright either. Can you link me to something showing him being hysterical. As I understand it you don’t watch videos anyway.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  December 4, 2018

            *him

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  December 4, 2018

            Couldn’t care less what you consider, G. Don’t need to watch videos, just read his quotes above. “Extinction of much of the natural world.” – utter tosh.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              Nothing hysterical about that. I think many species may fail to adapt to warming and the impacts of an ecology they are uniquely fitted to.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              Couldn’t care less what you consider, G.
              A bit intemperate. Is it raining up there?

              the impacts ON an ecology they are uniquely fitted to.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 4, 2018

              The vast majority of species have survived far more drastic temperature changes over the past 12,000 years since the last ice age finished.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              I think not. I think human activity generally is causing many extinctions. But I might read PGs post soon.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 4, 2018

              As I’ve pointed out before, there have been no species extinctions in this country for the past century. All the extinctions were created by the spread of Europeans around the globe several centuries ago bringing more successful competitors and predators to previously isolated places. That has been the overwhelming mechanism of human-caused extinctions.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 4, 2018

              Gezza’s right about this. Alan’s view is just daft.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              Well, I have expressed that view based on something I recall reading a while back, but to be fair I haven’t bothered to back it up with anything as it’s Alan I’m posting to so he’d rubbish it on principle.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 4, 2018

              @Robert, name a species that has become extinct in NZ in the last 100 years. There are none. The odd remnant subspecies on offshore islsnds is all you’ll find. A lot more species have been introduced, mostly involuntarily.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  December 4, 2018

              Al, I’ll call your bluff. The Canterbury knobbled weevil was hanging on for dear life until 2 years ago until it finally succumbed to the ravages of climate change. Look it up if you disbelieve.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 4, 2018

              Alan; let me ask you; do you think there are any creatures here in NZ that are regarded as threatened, highly threatened or under serious threat of extinction at this present moment?
              Your “nothing has become extinct lately” claim is…shortsighted. Are you celebrating because there are some native frogs surviving on off-shore islands, delighted that some of our native bats are to be found in isolate places or that there are at leas some Maui dolphins occasionally seen??

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 4, 2018

              To call Maui dolphins a separate species from Hector’s dolphins is ridiculous. They are just a different iwi living in a different place.

              You seem to be the only person who thinks your weevil is extinct and that is due to climate change:
              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadramphus_tuberculatus

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 4, 2018

              Yes, there are threatened species – almost all because of predators, competitors or land use changes. Few if any because of climate change. Doesn’t seem to stop environmemtalists from lying though.

  6. Gezza

     /  December 4, 2018

    Here in New Zealand last year Jacinda Ardern said that climate change was our new ‘nuclear free moment’, and also talked our climate change stance up at the United nations, but has since been criticised for not matching her words with appropriate action.

    Ardern is fond of warm and fuzzy and catchy phrases & slogans that resonate with the dopier portion of the populati but don’t actually mean anything, or demonstrably aren’t lived up to anyway. She’s become, and maybe always was, really just a voluble, smooth-talking, English-mangling front-woman for the real brains and schemers in the Labour Party.

    “Most open and transparent government ever”, anyone?

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  December 4, 2018

      a meaningless political..platitude…

      ‘ In April, Key told Patrick Gower, “We’ve been way more transparent than any other Government that’s been around”. This followed on from Bill English responding to the Dirty Politics scandal by claiming “John Key runs the most transparent government that New Zealand’s ever seen”

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  December 4, 2018

        I’m not suggesting Key was any better. You may not have noticed but Ardern imitates Key a lot.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  December 4, 2018

          I had noticed that Key imitated Clark alot and being popular is a pre requisite in…politics.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  December 4, 2018

            I hadn’t noticed that. For a start her voice got progressively deeper than his ever became. She scowled & growled.

            But I am interested in where you see the comparisons? I thought he adopted quite a different style to hers.

            I saw a lot of Muldoon’s style in Helen’s approach to tv reporters.

            Key’s main trick was to appear matey and laid back, relaxed about everything. Nothing to see here folks.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  December 4, 2018

              how he copied her ,was attending anything and everything,smiled and waved…Big Gay Out,Footy,you name it…being accessible was how she operated.
              So saying..Key certainly lived up to his nic…the Smiling Assassin’.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              Possibly you haven’t noticed but attending anything & everything is something all PMs & even party leaders do. Have done for yonks & yonks. Even Helen, Goffy, Cunliffe, Wotsisname & Andy liked to show up & show a bit of ankle at anything where dozens of ordinary New Zealanders had told them what they wanted to hear – even if they were same ones, travelling on their bus. I don’t think you’ve made your case but I’m happy to leave it here, with you thinking you have & me thinking otherwise, for the sake of ending another not particularly important diversion from the main topic.

            • Blazer

               /  December 4, 2018

              ‘Turns up to everything. Puts on the everywoman, matey act. Nothing to worry about. Likes to go on talk shows overseas. ‘


              Possibly you haven’t noticed but attending anything & everything is something all PMs & even party leaders do. Have done for yonks & yonks’

              very …good.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2018

              Yes I had noticed. I think, from memory I even mentioned it to you earlier.

        • Blazer

           /  December 4, 2018

          ‘ You may not have noticed but Ardern imitates Key a lot.’
          How exactly?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  December 4, 2018

            Turns up to everything. Puts on the everywoman, matey act. Nothing to worry about. Likes to go on talk shows overseas. Smooth talker. Tells obvious blatant lies without blinking an eye. Acts the smart arse in Parliament (although gets a very foot-stamping, pouty look when in trouble or caught out that I find very little-girlish & amusingly endearing because I’ve looked after a lot of little girls & seen that look often when they’re put out or jealous about something). Uses a lot of sloganesque catch phrases that are the equivalent of things like “a brighter future”. There are more but I think that’s enuf for me to mention for now & I’ve lost interest already in continuing this conversation as I’ve said above what my opinion is and moved on.

            Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  December 4, 2018

        Killer response there, Blazer. That might shut down the repeated use of that old chestnut. But not here on YourNZ – ““Most open and transparent government ever”, anyone?” is the morning chorus for the coalition deniers that abound here.

        Reply
  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  December 4, 2018

    The fact is that the trends in climate change are so slow and tiny that they are imperceptible and that alarmism has to predict sudden future catastrophes of all the ice suddenly falling off Greenland and Antarctica into the sea to get any traction with the public.

    It is a rather sad fact that all the brain-washed youngsters studying environmental science have little hope of employment unless they can find a niche space on the climate change wagon being hauled along by the latest moral panic. Hence all the tenuous claims of links to that issue.

    And just for those who say there are no natural factors operative on the time scale of current changes:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/11/26/last-ice-age-protecting-half-britain-climate-change/

    Reply
  8. Pink David

     /  December 4, 2018

    “And to do so, it says, would require “rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society”. That sounds to me like systemic change: a social, political and economic transformation, no less.”

    If one was cynical you could be forgiven thinking this was the goal in the first place, and climate change is simply the latest vehicle to get there.

    If one was cynical.

    Reply
  9. Zedd

     /  December 4, 2018

    Its all just a grand conspiracy by the ‘loony left’.. just ask MrT & the OPEC folks :/

    oh yes AW & a few in here too… 😦

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  December 4, 2018

      If it’s not a conspiracy by the left, both loony and other, care to explain why the proposed solution is marxism?

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  December 4, 2018

        Nope. We’ll just let you stew in your own bitter juices. Humans have to work together to extract themselves from the mess we’ve made. That’s not “Marxism”, that’s fricken obvious !

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  December 4, 2018

          The mess we have made? The world is more prosperous and peaceful than at any other time in human history, It’s not really that much of a mess, unless you are one of the few who want to turn that upside down.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  December 4, 2018

            It’s not been entirely prosperous for quite a number of creatures, particularly with poachers and wealthy cretins from places like the US running around looking for trophy kills to impress other wealthy cretins.

            Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  December 4, 2018

            Pink David – do you know what conditions were like for pre-agricultural humans?
            If not, how can you possibly claim that these times are better than those? Or do you believe those humans who lived “pre-history” don’t count???

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  December 4, 2018

              “do you know what conditions were like for pre-agricultural humans?
              If not, how can you possibly claim that these times are better than those?”

              Yeah, good luck with a pre-agricultural lifestyle. Remind us,what is the life expectancy 30 years? Nirvana for you I’m sure.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 4, 2018

              You don’t know then? Just wild guesses? A is better than B, only you don’t know what B is? Impressive thinking.

        • Pink David

           /  December 4, 2018

          “That’s not “Marxism”, that’s fricken obvious ”

          As for this, care to share a policy you support that is not clearly capitalist in nature that is a fix to climate change?

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  December 4, 2018

            A “fix” for climate change?
            There’s no “fix”, Pink David. We’re in for a ride.

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  December 4, 2018

              If that is the case, all these demands to ‘change’ are futile and we are best off ignoring them.

  10. Kitty Catkin

     /  December 4, 2018

    This fear for the collapse of society is hardly new. And the seemingly indestructible Roman empire collapsed, as did the Greek.

    I won’t quote the old quotations from Socrates, Plato, Hesiod et al, because they are bogus.

    Reply
  11. MaureenW

     /  December 4, 2018

    Talk about alarmism. I feel sorry for the younger generation who haven’t lived through being lied to and deceived by those entrusted with power. The riots in France are about climate change also but this is not being accurately reported.

    http://www.climatedepot.com/2018/12/03/u-s-media-wont-report-one-key-detail-about-french-riots-theyre-about-climate-change-policies

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  December 4, 2018

      Well, I don’t think it is. From those who’re taking part in the protests and general mayhem interviewed and shown on 1ewes, it’s become about just about everything they’re sick of. Pay cuts, staff cuts, petrol prices, lying politicians in the pockets of business, you name it – they’re totally fed up with everything and when the French get like that they chuck up barriers, blow raspberries, smash and burn stuff, have the farmers come along and spray cowshit on government offices and just generally go to town on the town. Now might be a good time to invest in tumbril futures again.

      Reply
  1. “Collapse of our civilisations” unless “rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society” — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition

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