Concerns about a climate revolution, particularly post-revolution

I support reducing carbon emissions.

I support reducing use of plastics.

I support moving towards much less reliance on fossil fuels.

I support reducing pollution generally.

I support healthier diets.

I have concerns about the form and degree of consumerism that has become deeply embedded in modern culture.


I have major concerns about attempts to launch the world into a revolution, purportedly to reverse climate change, that would have huge and often irreversible effects on the planet and on the world population.

One of my biggest concerns is the seeming lack of a credible post revolution plan.

I am extremely concerned about what seems like a highly idealistic ‘revolt and hope’ mindset.

Perhaps someone can explain what a post-climate revolution world might look like.

Leave a comment

80 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  December 5, 2018

    If the revolution is driven by engineers it will be fine. If it is driven by politicians millions will die.

    Reply
    • It looks like being driven more by political activists, some of whom manage to get elected.

      Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  December 5, 2018

      The engineer-industrial revolution has been a huge…success.

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  December 5, 2018

        Were did it all go wrong Robert? Was it when we left the trees, or was getting out of the oceans the really big mistake?

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  December 5, 2018

          When giving was superseded by taking. That’s when.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  December 5, 2018

            Can you put a specific date & location on that incident please? 😳

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              Specific date and location? I’ll happily do that if you can do the same for the first humans.

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden. The earth was created, by His Magnificence, Jaweh The Only, shortly after nightfall on 22 October 4004 BC, and the Garden of Eden was created on the 3rd day, after, in southern Mesopotamia (now Iraq) where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers run into the sea.

              Adam was created on the 6th day following these spectacular and wondrous events, all which of went largely unreported when they occurred – and, unfortunately, un-videoed due to a lack of the right equipment at the time (since remedied) owing to Jaweh being a know-all but not having thought of everything.

              Probably got advice from a consultant beforehand.

              Eve was created for Adam at the end of the creation period sometime after the 7th day – because he absolutely had no idea how to dress for the right occasion and could never remember anniversaries.

              I await the fulfilment of your undertaking above .

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              That being the case, I can answer the question put to me in a similarly disrespectful way – cheers, Gezza!

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              Jesus Christ! Are you mocking Christianity now, robert? Have you no bloody sensitivity at all to others’ beliefs and divinely inspired thus reliable testamentary evidence?

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              That humour is at least a step up from your fart jokes, Gezza! Keep on with it, you’re sure to crack it eventually!

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              I’ve emailed His Magnificence a link, robert. Your remark hasn’t gone down well.

              If I were you I’d back away from that computer.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              If your “Magnificence” is sitting at his computer, answering emails, he’s no better than you or I, Gezza and therefore unlikely able to smote to any great effect. I’ll stay where I am, untroubled.

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              I’ll stay where I am, untroubled

              Best I not offer a amateur psychologist’s opinion on that one I think. I don’t want to cause any disharmonies.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              You’ve been criticised for your amateur psychology efforts already here today, Gezza. Don’t take it to heart, but do recognise the truth in what was said.

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              Oh? Possibly a misunderstanding has occurred. Can you link me to the remarks by the professional concerned?

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              Yes, I’ve noticed your memory is very poor. Perhaps some searching the archives by you will sharpen your facalties? See, when I adopt your acerbic style, I fit right in here at YourNZ.

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              I’m a busy man, robert. You’re taking up an extraordinary amount of my time and still not delivering on a promised undertaking above. Are you just here to distract and play games with me?

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              Nope. I’m sticking with this awkward business of trying to get you to calm your farm long enough to engage in a discussion that works to rules you are not very familiar with, yet would benefit you greatly to know. You make some very good comments on occasion, but have an Achilles heel that I could …heal for you 🙂 It’d be difficult, but we could sort your disfunction pretty effectively, if only you took a deep breath.
              *smiley face, kindly vibes

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              I think you might invest too much of yourself in yourself. Whereas I don’t. I am open to argument and prepared to change my views.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              What’s one you’ve changed?

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              I see that you changed your view (with caveats).
              Does that make you…flighty?
              (joke, friendly. Not expecting you to rotflyao or needing to stitch your split sides).

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              Did you watch the TED talk that persuaded me to change my view, robert?

              And if you disagree with filling the massive energy needs of modern societies (they won’t disappear; the denizens of the world are not all going to end up living in forest gardens – they don’t have the luxury to do it that you do and never will) and are opposed to nuclear power filling most of that need as it is clear existing technologies or even imaginary ones of renewable sources can’t even come remotely near it.

              If you did watch it, and you are opposed to nuclear power as the safest and most practical alternative:

              1. which points in the arguments for the inability of renewables to meet the modern world’s energy needs, do you disagree with, why, and what evidence do you have to support a contention that they will?

              2. which points in the evidence cited that nuclear accidents in total have in fact caused miniscule numbers of deaths & genetic damage in comparision to the deaths & disabilities caused by other existing energy sources, and that most of the commonly held beliefs of the lasting and widespread damaging effects of nuclear accidents are completely false – do you dispute – and what evidence do you have to prove that claims made there are false?

              3. if you have not watched the TED talk to consider the evidence and arguments advanced – why have you not?

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              I’ve not watched the TED talk, Gezza, as I’ve been busy attending to various responsibilities this evening; phone calls, emails, face to face discussions with guests and a little after-dinner runnr-bean-planting.
              I may find time tomorrow, though I’m on grandchild duty and have two to manage for the day. I was once asked to give a TED talk, but didn’t think much of the rigorous practice required by the TED people, so eventually declined the offer. There are plenty of other portals, Today, three Indian gentlemen visited. They were in NZ for 3 days, having flown from their Himalyan/Indian home, their purpose being to visit our garden and meet with me, but I was in the council chamber and missed their visit, so don’t feel bad that I haven’t had time to view your video.

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              No worries, I’ve bookmarked the page, robert. I suggest you do the same. I look forward to your replies to my questions when you post next, possibly tomorrow? I think it will be an interesting discussion & look forward to your counter arguments if you disagree with the arguments and data presented and have some alternative data to suggest this chap is wrong.

              It was about 20 minutes long from memory. I didn’t have time to watch it when TC first posted it either – but this issue is a critical one as fossil fuels are being wound down but energy needs are increasing worldwide – and that won’t change – so I need to understand the relevant facts and so do you, I’m sure you agree.

              There will be major problems if people who don’t understand the reality of what they want everyone else to do are able to persuade others who don’t understand the reality of the situation to shut things down in the vague hope a solution will magically present itself via osmosis or something but create a massive energy crisis & resultant reaction when enraged sufferers then come looking for the ignorant bastards who caused it.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              ‘K

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              👍

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  December 5, 2018

        Care to compare continents where it happened to those that didn’t?

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 5, 2018

          How on earth can someone give without the other person taking whatever it is they’re being given?

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  December 5, 2018

            They can receive , Kitty. It’s a subtle difference and one I’m not surprised you missed. Receiving is passive, taking, active.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 5, 2018

              The dictionary, an etymological one, disagrees, they give take as a meaning of receive and vice versa.

              He took the bad news passively, he had been expecting it.

              He gave her a diamond ring and she took it from him with delight.

              The letter was not well received.

              For a long time, divorced people were not received by the Queen.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              And yet, you know I’m right. You’d be fun to squabble with, Kitty, if you could avoid the snarkiness.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 5, 2018

              When he gave her a zircon ring, she received it with anger.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              He saved her from the charge of being a receiver of blood diamonds – what a kind fellow!

        • robertguyton

           /  December 5, 2018

          Compare continents? No. Why would I? That would have no relevance to my claim at all.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  December 5, 2018

            Nothing like a placebo comparison to ferret out your fibs, Robert

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              You’re claiming I lied, Alan. You’re manners are appalling! What was the “lie” – do tell.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              Your – apologies to the purists.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 5, 2018

              Your sarcasm implied your fib, Robert:
              The engineer-industrial revolution has been a huge…success.

              Compare say Europe and Africa to observe the magnitude of it.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              It has not been a success, Alan, in my opinion. Why do you need to claim my opinion is a lie? Your opinion may be different from mine – should I declare that you are lying?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 5, 2018

              I need to claim it is a fib because you are incapable of supporting it in any reasonable fashion and therefore just threw it out as a pointless troll as is your wont.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              You claim I’m incapable of supporting my claim that the industrial revolution has been a disaster, Alan? What evidence are you offering to support that?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 5, 2018

              Just the usual continuing failure to do so despite my challenge to compare where it happened with where it didn’t.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              You asked me to “compare continents”, not to “support my claim” – quite a prescriptive fellow, aren’t you – do you find that people often baulk at your directions to provide evidence you prescribe? Little wonder you’re frustrated by thinkers such as myself.

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              A more effective questioner would as, “what do you mean” if they wanted to know what the person making the claim…meant. Just helpful advice to someone who gets in tangles regularly, with people who think differently to him.

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              I will say in Alan’s defence, robert, that I do where I feel strongly provide evidence and/or reasoned (more or less) argument to defend & support my positions, and of course while he studiously ignores it in preference to his own blinked position, we remain free to consider the other utter bastards (& in fact he seems to consider it something of an honour) & remain on excellent terms nevertheless.

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              *blinkered

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              Yes, I see that, Gezza. Maybe I should take him fishing? Our southern blue cod beats anything from the north – snapper? You can keep it!

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 5, 2018

              At last something we agree on, Robert. I have fond memories of a few days on Stewart Island enjoying fresh blue cod. Also of course we used to enjoy both blue and red cod when we grew up in Chch.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 5, 2018

              do you find that people often baulk at your directions to provide evidence you prescribe?

              I find people often make nonsense statements that indicate they haven’t spent any effort considering whether they match reality

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              Blue for me and fresh – fried while still aboard is best – makes “melt in the mouth” sound inadequate. I first met blue cod when I fished off D’Urville Island, but really took them aboard when I came to Riverton and friends took me out off-shore of Stewart Island to fish…have you tasted out kina? Paua here is …tdf. There are sweet pipi in the sand along the [redacted] beach and toheroa at [redacted]. Crays here are fricken [redacted] and the titi superb! A shared interest in kai moana doesn’t mean I’m gonna be nice to you, Alan.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 5, 2018

              I never expected you to be nice, Robert. I’ll be content if I can get you to make sense reasonably often.

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              I’ve had to give myself an uptick up there Sir Alan for the explanation of our harmonious personal relations, since as usual you’re such a bastard you wouldn’t give me one. Bloody poor show, I might add.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 5, 2018

              That’s all the thanks I get for never downticking you, Sir Gerald. You could at least call me a bastard’s bastard.

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              Never fear, Sir Alan. Take it as a given. When it comes to bastards, in my opinion you are definitely at the top of the pile in this fair land of ours. 👍

              I know of few others who come anywhere near working as hard to get to the top & stay there as you. Commendable commitment always. I imagine it was mentioned at your dubbing?

      • Gezza

         /  December 5, 2018

        Jesus, Al. Think I’ve got occupational overuse syndrome in my right index finger after having scroll the mousewheel so much to scroll all the way up for so long to find out what the hell that’s replying to.

        Reply
  2. Trevors_elbow

     /  December 5, 2018

    It will look like the CCCP Pete George.

    The correlation between Marxists and Climate Change Activists seems quite high, when looking at the languages used. Dr R Norman being a pretty good example of that correlation… M Davidson being another good example…

    They have even embraced the rhetoric of “the Party is always right” even when they have shifted from the very humankind accusitive label of AGW to the very mild Climate Change. Climate has ALWSYS changed regardless of humankind activities…

    It’s not about climate and mans possible impact on it… it’s about destroying capitalism, even though unrestrained capitalism is a dying thing even outside the West (it is rightly being regulated to stop its excesses).

    The Struggle continues under a flag of convenience…

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  December 5, 2018

      ‘The Struggle continues under a flag of convenience…’

      When will your version of ‘Mein Kampf’ be ..available?

      Reply
      • Pink David

         /  December 5, 2018

        Blazer is playing Nazi! bingo.

        Reply
      • Trevors_elbow

         /  December 6, 2018

        Go back to “traveling in Asia” blazer. The blog was so much better when you were.
        The nasty smears from you are untrue as always. But I suppose it helps your meds go down to evacuate your bile on line

        Reply
    • Griff.

       /  December 5, 2018

      They have even embraced the rhetoric of “the Party is always right” even when they have shifted from the very humankind accusitive label of AGW to the very mild Climate Change. Climate has ALWSYS changed regardless of humankind activities…

      They.. as in the scientific community or some imaginary foe you made up ?
      There is a deliberate effort to re frame AGW to climate change as fuckwits think it is less threatening.
      Here is the source
      https://www.motherjones.com/files/LuntzResearch_environment.pdf
      The Republican party manipulate its core with targeted propaganda and the thickos swallow it wholesale .
      How surprising {sarc}

      The right wing is in Denial as to the consequences of our little atmospheric experiment
      As such you fail to have a valid voice at the table when it comes to solutions.
      Thus it is the rights fault not those on the left who take scientific evaluation of the threat seriously..
      AGW is the result of adding co2 to the atmosphere .
      As it results in more energy retained within the system it also will result in more energy for storm development water evaporation resulting in more rain fall ice melt and rising seas
      Climate change.
      If you think climate change is not a threat i suggest you read the fuckin news.
      Unprecedented.
      fire
      drought
      storms
      ice melt .
      Are reported daily.
      We are seeing the effects of AGW in a changing climate on a global scale
      These effects will only increase and multiply into the future
      Until the right gets a healthy dose of realty it will leave the debated solutions up to those on the left.
      Wake up ……

      Reply
      • PDB

         /  December 5, 2018

        Griff: “Wake up ……”

        You first.

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  December 5, 2018

        Where have we experienced anything abnormal, Griff?

        Reply
      • Trevors_elbow

         /  December 6, 2018

        Oh fuck off Griff you’re an aggressive and hysterical commentator. Take your abuse “fuckwits”… and shove it

        Climate is changing. Big deal. It always has. It always will.

        Cleaning up pollution… I’m all for it.

        Using climate change as a trojan horse to force authoritarian socialism on the world , no thanks.

        You statements always indicate world climate science is completely understood. It is not.

        Reply
  3. robertguyton

     /  December 5, 2018

    “Perhaps someone can explain what a post-climate revolution world might look like.”
    It’s going to look messy. We’re in for a hammering from the weather, for starters.
    “It looks like being driven more by political activists, some of whom manage to get elected.”
    Thank goodness for those people then! Otherwise, we’d all be sitting around, wide-eyed, like possums in the headlights!

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  December 5, 2018

      Otherwise, we’d all be sitting around, wide-eyed, like possums in the headlights!

      One should never assume one’s family & friends’ typical behaviourisms are representative of the wider population. In my opinion.

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  December 5, 2018

        You’re running a line of not-so-subtly demeaning my family, Gezza. You may think it’s funny, but I think it’s disgraceful. If needed, I can copy/paste other examples where you have done this. Otoh, you’ll not be able to find anything of that sort from me about you and yours.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  December 5, 2018

          I think you just misunderstand my jollity, sometimes, if I can borrow a phrase of yours. I didn’t malign your family. I made a general remark which applies to everybody.

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  December 5, 2018

            Nah, Gezza; you’re being slippery. I’ll find your similar quote from yesterday.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              Slippery? What do you mean?

              Happy to review what you find for me.

            • The Consultant

               /  December 5, 2018

              I don’t imply posters or their families are stupid, idiots, ignorant, whatever, the way many here do.

              Ooo! Ooooh – the Victim Card!

              The years during which you got the boot froom Kiwiblog under the “Greenfly” and “Village Idiot” lables, were entirely due to your abusive manner regarding the people your were “debating”. You constantly slimed people as stupid, idiots, ignorant, whatever and you did so with all the malice of badly behaved 7 year old, which is why you got the boot from that forum. You’re crap is tolerated at The Standard because they love nasty Lefties who abuse the Right.

              And now you Wormtongue your way around here, whining about “abuse” and “demeaning” with Gezza’s playful banter?

              Even though you’re decades older you are the perfect exemplar of the Millennial Snowflake,whining about how much your fist hurts after you threw the punch.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  December 5, 2018

            Alas, Gezza, Robert is one of those to whom it’s a joke when they dish it out and an insult when someone returns the compliment.

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              I don’t imply posters or their families are stupid, idiots, ignorant, whatever, the way many here do. Gezza says, ” I made a general remark which applies to everybody.”, meaning he’s insulting everybody.” Nice work, Gezza. There is a difference between jollity and nastiness. I reckon there are some here who cross the line often. Alan’s a cracker! Gezza’s an occasional crosser (and I’m not referring to you account of applying lippy, Gezza – see, that’s jollity, not nastiness – geddit?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 5, 2018

              Robert, you may well not intend to do so, but you can come across as aggressive, didactic and contradictory. If that is unintentional, it’s a pity. Perhaps we can all clear the air on this. It is easy for something that would obviously be humour in real life to seem rude when it’s written.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 5, 2018

              Thanks for the compliment, Robert. I do try to satisfy the deserving properly.

              However I detect a slight lack of gratitude for my dliligent efforts to improve the quality of your contributions despite continuing disappointments.

            • Gezza

               /  December 5, 2018

              It appears you believe humour is decided by you, robert.

              I am sorry to tell you that your humour repertoire is seriously underdeveloped, and so limited in scope it would be a shattering surprise to most comedians, who don’t see slapstick, raspberries and farting on online forums as the only acceptable expressions of a Green Party supporter’s ideal & required acceptable range of comedy.

              I hope you are not suggesting that millions of them must at some point when your lot seize power all be immediately regulated out of their jobs, prosecuted, & forced to work in forest gardens, if they refuse do ONLY slapstick, raspberries, and farts on online forums?

            • robertguyton

               /  December 5, 2018

              I like your comment, Kitty.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s