‘Preliminary discussions’ on Blue-Green party

National’s lack of partner parties is a real problem for them under MMP. They either have to take a punt that they can become a single party government, something that has never been allowed by voters under MMP. Or they can hope that a new party starts up that can either be anchored by an electorate MP, or can get 5% (also something never achieved by a new party under MMP).

There has been talk of a more business friendly environmental party for years. The Green Party has often been criticised for it’s fairly extreme social stances, and this limits it’s support from b=voters who want a strong environmental voice in Parliament. Co-leaders like Metiria Turei and Marama Davidson are well supported on the left, but deter more moderately minded environmentalist leaning voters.

Lucy Bennett reports that Blue-Greens movement could be National’s answer to toppling Ardern

Talk of a new centrist green political party which could potentially partner with National in a future government coalition is starting to become more than just speculation.

It is understood preliminary discussions among interested parties have already been held on creating a party that combines economic and environmental credentials, filling a demand not already taken up by existing political parties.

It is also understood former Green Party leadership contender and one-time National candidate hopeful Vernon Tava is the front-runner to lead the party.

James Shaw probably wouldn’t be out of place in a Blue-Green party but I doubt that he would jump the Green ship – unless a Blue-Green startup looked like cannibalising Green party support to the extent that they were at risk of missing the 5% cut?

Tava told the Herald on Sunday a party that had the environment at its heart was missing from the political landscape and it was a great idea. He would consider leading such a party.

“It’s certainly something I would take seriously,” he said.

“I’ve always said it’s a great idea and what we need.”

Despite his Green Party origins, Tava has close links to National Party figures and was campaign chair for National MP Erica Stanford, who holds Murray McCully’s old seat of East Coast Bays.

There has been talk for some time about the possibility of other small parties to bolster National, but National will want to ensure any such party does not carve into its own vote.

National leader Simon Bridges said it was no secret National wanted to see new parties emerge this year.

“What would be most pleasing to see is parties that are additional to National’s support base. Not just for the National Party, but for the public, a genuine green party and an indigenous Māori movement are two reasonably likely scenarios this year,” he said.

Of course National would love to see partner party options for them. But would a Blue-Green party help National take over power from Labour?

I’d certainly be interested in some sort of Blue-Green party. I have voted Greens in the past but have concerns over their strong social/socialist stances. I have concerns about how far left a Labour-Green coalition might go.

But I would be most likely to support a Blue-Green party that was independent and would be willing to partner either National or Labour (or Labour-Greens).

If a Blue-Green party looked to be largely a National puppet party I would be disappointed and I think many other potential supporters would be too. I doubt that it would succeed. If National jacked up an electorate for a Blue-Green party I suspect that wouldn’t go down well with many voters.

I could easily get enthusiastic about genuine independent Blue-Green party as long as it would sit in the middle-ish and drive the best deal it could get out of any other parties who were voted into Parliament.

 

 

84 Comments

  1. Griff.

     /  January 27, 2019

    I am presently a political junkie without a party to support .
    I would vote blue greens but they would have to be demonstrably distant from the present national party and the conservative factions within that talk of climate change yet sabotage any clear action in that direction.
    National has demonstrated the same cynical manipulation on drug law reform
    Talk loudly of a need for reform than sabotage any action towards change.

    • PartisanZ

       /  January 27, 2019

      So you’d vote for them and then they’d form a coalition as National’s junior partner – probably having to waive most of their policies in the process – to get National back in power?

      • PartisanZ

         /  January 27, 2019

        What will they call themselves? The Broadspectrum Party? Round-up Ready?

        They might be competing for senior coalition junior party with New Conservatives?

        Blue-Green is the colour of the dyed Roundup the Police have sprayed on hundreds if not thousands of people’s cannabis crops …

    • Duker

       /  January 27, 2019

      “I am presently a political junkie without a party to support .”

      Wasnt that cat hater dudes party the one for you, isnt it still around or did Climate Disruption wipe it out

      • PartisanZ

         /  January 27, 2019

        Here’s TOP’s ‘Cannabis Law Reform’ policy, just as a reminder to you both during intermission, before Round 2 of today’s Duker Vs Griff ‘Title Match’ continues – (I can’t wait its televised!) …

        The Opportunities Party will:
        – License suppliers and manufacturers to encourage small scale regional supply, and regulate the potency of supply.
        – Use a tax (based on THC potency) and minimum price to ensure the price doesn’t fall as it did in Colorado.
        – Allow retail sales only through Cannabis Licensing Trusts (local charities) or a Government online store. It will not be sold in the same outlets as alcohol.
        – Ensure the placement of retail outlets (if any) will be subject to local authority regulation.
        – Use revenue generated by the tax and profits of the Trusts (estimated at $150m) for education, after school projects for youth, treatment of addiction for all drugs and regulation to control demand.
        – Allow home growing of up to 2 plants. [should be at least 6]
        – Set the legal age of purchase & use at 20 and ensure education campaigns discourage use until 25. [arguably the most controvesial] …

        But hey, focus on the ex-Leader’s controversial statements about cats if you must …

    • Corky

       /  January 27, 2019

      Best you vote for the Greens. The New Green Party ( which I previously predicted) wouldn’t have what you want.. especially after having to compromise for gaining Nationals favour.

      Of course National will have to compromise, too…maybe drop all objections to cannabis law reform?

      • Griff.

         /  January 27, 2019

        Umm corky
        In case you did not notice I am more right than left.
        I was a paid up ACT party member for years..
        I would never vote for the NZ Green party as they are full of far left socialists.
        Politics is the art of compromises.

        • Corky

           /  January 27, 2019

          I thought the anti-Maori thing was a put on. Mine is genuine. ACT Party you say. Glad you finally saw through their pseudo-Libertarianism. Only one thing to do..join me in not voting. However,tell no one. It gets people animated.

          • PartisanZ

             /  January 27, 2019

            “Join me in not voting” … The strategic answer …

            If you’re Righter than ACT, and you’re anti-Maori thing is genuine, your choices are exceedingly limited … now NZFirst have ruled themselves out …

            New Conservatives?

            Hence the Blue/Green desperation on National’s part no doubt …

            • Corky

               /  January 27, 2019

              ”Join me in not voting” … The strategic answer …”

              Nothing strategic about it. It’s not like I want choices, because there is none..regardless of your political persuasion.

            • Patzcuaro

               /  January 27, 2019

              @Corky are you out of touch is the problem everybody else?

            • Corky

               /  January 27, 2019

              What touch.?What problem? What comprehension?

            • Corky

               /  January 27, 2019

              Let me give it a stab. The ignorant think there’s a choice. There isn’t.
              Remember WP on immigration? National continuing Labours welfare policies? On it goes. The car remains the same. Voters get to choose the paint job, front grill and hood ornament. Maybe an optional sunroof if they are lucky. Stuffed if I’m voting for that. And Kitty calls my stance disgusting.

              Talk about a Wilder beast running towards a river full of crocodiles and thinking she has everything under control.🙄

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  January 27, 2019

            Griff, it doesn’t get people animated, just disgusted.

            I do wonder how someone who claims to be half-Maori can be anti-Maori without being anti-themselves and one of their parents.

            • Corky

               /  January 27, 2019

              Same endless loop of trolling. Griff doesn’t need you to speak for him.

              Haven’t you got darning, peeping through the curtains..or lord knows what, to do?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 28, 2019

              It seems illogical that someone who’s half-Maori (or so they claim) should be so openly anti-Maori.

              You are the one who is in a trolling loop, lashing out at a statement of fact with rude personal abuse as usual. I was speaking to Griff, not for him.

              You are showing your age with your abusive remarks. Nobody darns nowadays. This is 2019, not 1919. And from your self-proclaimed propensity for eavesdropping and gawping at people in supermarkets, curtain-peeping is more in your line.

              I don’t have net curtains, of course; they are too lower-middle class for words.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 28, 2019

              I was speaking TO Griff , not FOR him; how absurd.

              How do you reconcile your supposedly being half-Maori when it suits you with being blatantly anti-Maori ? It was a reasonable suggestion, and responding with personal abuse doesn’t answer it.

              You surely don’t think that anyone does darning nowadays; it’s 2019, not 1919.

              Your self-proclaimed love of eavesdropping and staring in supermarkets makes your idea of curtain peeping more likely to be something you would do. I don’t have net curtains; too lower middle-class for words.

        • PartisanZ

           /  January 27, 2019

          MMP politics is the art of compromises … Thank the Lord!

    • C.K.-COROPENN-NZFIRST.

       /  January 28, 2019

      *THERE’S A VERY GOOD REASON, … why JAMES-SHAW/NZL-GREENS was chosen ahead of VERNON-TAVA, KEVIN-HAGUE & GARETH HUGHES. GO-FIGURE! … New-Zealand/NZL with a population of only 5-Million people doesn’t need another political-party, MORE PEOPLE GETTING ON GRAVY-TRAIN TO BOOST RETIREMENT-FUNDS. … Kind regards, C.K.-COROPENN-NZFIRST.

      • Gerrit

         /  January 28, 2019

        Why the shouting?

        In a democracy, any one and every one can start a political party. There can be as many as people want. Someone and their new political party will be needed to replace NZFirst after Winston First has gone.

        Care to explain why James Shaw was chosen ahead of the others?

        One could draw conclusions from your post about NZ First having to shout so loudly and yet offer no explanations about the wherefore all.

        But will leave it up to you to paint the picture, that drew the rant that you did, before I do .

        Not looking good for NZFirst if you represent their membership.

        • Gezza

           /  January 28, 2019

          Looks about what I expect an NZ Firster to talk like, tbh.

          • PartisanZ

             /  January 28, 2019

            An example of what’s left at NZFirst after the post-coalition agreement ‘Right Brigade’ defections …

            Despite having nothing useful to articulate, at least the Right Brigade can articulate themselves …

            … all eight of them!

            • Gezza

               /  January 28, 2019

              When it comes to articulation the thought crossed my mind that a conversation between CK & Lurch could be a thing to behold. 😐

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 28, 2019

              Nah … Lurcher makes way too much sense for this dude! 😎

  2. Blazer

     /  January 27, 2019

    Tava the new Gilbert Myles/Tau Henare.

  3. PartisanZ

     /  January 27, 2019

    Tree-hugging Corporate Farmers …

    What is it about this that just simply doesn’t wash with me!?

    • PartisanZ

       /  January 27, 2019

      ‘Forest & Turd’ …

    • Corky

       /  January 27, 2019

      It’s not fanatical enough?

      • PartisanZ

         /  January 27, 2019

        Look, Corky … if it’s got Blue in it, it’ll be fanatical, that’s for fucken sure!

        • seer

           /  January 27, 2019

          Blue is the “color” of US Democraps.

          • PartisanZ

             /  January 27, 2019

            You do ‘see’ very clearly don’t you seer …?

            This means … What?

            • seer

               /  January 27, 2019

              “This means … What?” – to me nothing much, but ask mongrel mob or black power about blue..

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 27, 2019

              I take it from this you acknowledge that the National Party is a ‘gang’ …?

            • Pickled Possum

               /  January 27, 2019

              Of course its a gang you dim witted wordsworth😃 just joking but that gang …
              gang rapes sells meth product steals it out of lock up … procures cananbis … this is all written in a court of nz law when they got jailed.

  4. Gerrit

     /  January 27, 2019

    A possibly more likely partner for National is the potential for the Botany seat to go to a new Asian party.

    With the one seat vote and the quite possibly large party vote (15% of the population) to supplement the numbers, a quite strong electoral presence is on the cards.

    Make more sense than a blue-green party.

    • PartisanZ

       /  January 27, 2019

      Yep … An Asian Party … Why not? There was a Maori Party … Right?

      You might split the Chinese funding and influence though?

      We could have a Muslim Party too!

      • Gerrit

         /  January 27, 2019

        That is what democracy is. Freedom of association.

        • Duker

           /  January 27, 2019

          Freedom of association?
          Dont think the public will be fooled by an ‘insta party’ created for and by national.

          What about a ‘Liberal National’ party – i can hear the screams form the nats now

        • PartisanZ

           /  January 27, 2019

          Don Brash & Judith Collins could be its inaugural leaders …!?

          • Corky

             /  January 27, 2019

            Why not? I think they would be preferable to Helen and H20.

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 27, 2019

              Blueys are pro-immigration now eh? What a turnaround in a relatively few short years …

              And the Right Brigade can’t argue about it, or be seen not to be on the Blue spectrum …

              Note they can still be anti-Maori though …

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 27, 2019

              We might find out the Asian ‘community’ is just every bit as diverse as our own …

              Now that’s scary eh Corky? Eh sorethumb?

            • Corky

               /  January 27, 2019

              Oh, sure it’s diverse, but the ideal of hardwork and family is one unchangeable aspect I see amongst all Asian communities.

              Scary? No..what is scary is the Roundeye attitude towards life cause by excessive liberalism and a pampered western lifestyle.

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 27, 2019

              In other words, their lifestyle is better … once they get to the West?

              Once their ideal of family+community has been perverted?

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 27, 2019

              “Pampered Western lifestyle” …

              Do you think we should live more simply Corky? More like ‘socialists’?

            • Corky

               /  January 27, 2019

              ”In other words, their lifestyle is better … once they get to the West?”

              It can be. Your point?

              ”Once their ideal of family+community has been perverted?”

              I don’t see that ideal diluted by Western influences. Apart from, and I have noticed this recently…getting a better work/ life balance. The work ethic is so inculcated into them it is hard for them to become more moderate.

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 27, 2019

              I disagree … I think they simply know already that all life is work and all work is life … and that work/life balance is a CROC of BS …

              Rather than ‘work/life’ our aspiration should be Life’s Work …

            • Corky

               /  January 27, 2019

              ”Do you think we should live more simply Corky? More like ‘socialists’?”

              No, we need to stop navel gazing. Stop being snowflakes and wankers. Realise the only reason we have the time to indulge in that madness is because of the benefits and joys( relative) our superior western culture has given us. Instead fugwits want to dismantle what we have because their political philosophy will not acknowledge or accept we are superior.

              But most of all..the biggest thing we need to do..something 99% of us aren’t doing:

              WE NEED TO BE FUCKING GRATEFUL FOR WHAT WE HAVE…BECAUSE IT’S SLOWLY BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM US.

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 27, 2019

              Far out!!!

              I don’t think your “fugwits” want to dismantle it … I think they want to make it smoother and easier … yes, easier … more effort-less …

              Aside from your assertion of “superiority” … which is pure speculative opinion … and untrue … We’re not superior … If we were superior we wouldn’t be working longer and harder, for less, would we?

              We’re just different … at the moment … in this era … especially having chosen working harder and longer for less from among our many “joyous” options …

              SO, WE’RE STUPID TO BE FUCKING GRATEFUL FOR WHAT WE HAVE … WHEN WE’RE SLOWLY TAKING IT AWAY FROM OURSELVES!

            • Corky

               /  January 27, 2019

              Yeah we are superior. That’s why people crawl to the West. You hate me saying we are superior because your mindset refuses to accept that. Your counter arguments are all based around denigration of the West; how we live and enjoy life. It’s why you just can’t be grateful. You have to apply a counter twist with a political angle to show ‘just being grateful’ is a non starter in your view.

              Just because we are superior doesn’t mean we are perfect and without problems as you acknowledge in a round about way.

              Simple litmus test. Person A and B. Take your pick. You wanna be poor in the West or someplace else? We know the answer.

              Have no fears, Parti. Few have the balls to say we are superior. You won’t hear that often.

              Pretty hardcore, eh? Especially coming from an ex socialist.

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 27, 2019

              Explains a lot … There’s nothing worse than a ‘Born Again Capitalist’ …

            • Conspiratoor

               /  January 27, 2019

              Corky, allow me to ease your pain. Salvation is at hand, for George is pulling together a heroic pilgrimage to a new life in Bangladesh

              https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2019/01/the-shame-of-being-a-man-has-become-unbearable/

            • Gezza

               /  January 27, 2019

              I’d like to see the boat before making up my mind, c.

            • Blazer

               /  January 28, 2019

              @Corky…superior’=wrong word….dominant.

    • Corky

       /  January 27, 2019

      Good thinking, Gerrit..and why not? National is the political home for many Asians who have a self-help mentality that National USED to believe in, but now just pays lip service to. Still has enough facade though to attract the Asian vote.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  January 27, 2019

        People tend to use Asian as if it was a nationality, which it isn’t. Indians have nothing in common with Japanese, any more than a Briton would have with a Norwegian. Asian also seems to be used as a synonym for Chinese, ignoring the many other Asian nationalities. The assumption that there is an Asian vote is a fallacy when there are so many different Asian races.

        • Corky

           /  January 27, 2019

          Yes, well of course you are right. However, everyone else knows that therefore they feel no need to comment. They also know ( or should) what I mean ..using the term Asian as a generic ”catch-all” for people from the Asian continent and its surrounds..

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  January 27, 2019

            Rubbish. Just because nobody has commented yet doesn’t mean anything. It’s not even 2pm.

            You were talking about the Asian vote as if all Asians could be induced to vote the same way, when they are individuals like everyone else.

      • Corky

         /  January 27, 2019

        Stop being stupid an inane.

        Asian:
        ”Relating to Asia or its people, customs, or languages.
        A native of Asia or a person of Asian descent.”

        I find most Asians have a productive mindset towards life. They aren’t like Maori or feral Pakeha. When I walk down the street I know the chances of me getting beaten by an Asian
        are very slim.

        My chances of a beat at the hands of a Labour voting lackey are much higher. That’s because they have time on their hands because they don’t work.

        Asians see all that..and they don’t like it.

  5. the whole idea of a BLUE-green party is a joke, it has to be a GREEN-blue party; as long as the Blue comes first the environment comes last ! :/ 😦

    • Patzcuaro

       /  January 27, 2019

      And it has to evolve independently from the National Party, ie not a patsy party.

  6. Trevors_elbow

     /  January 27, 2019

    And the Lefties all lose their shit as the Green camouflage is potential being pull down by a possible alternative green policies party with a centrist bent is discussed. If the SJW types had the strength of their convictions they would drop the green pretence and run on hard left SJW policies…..but they wont as they are cowards and also know they have zero electoral cred…

    • PartisanZ

       /  January 27, 2019

      And your answer is for Righties to don Green camouflage … ?

      • PartisanZ

         /  January 27, 2019

        Bluey mate! … Pick up that “Green pretense” will you old chap? Just for the 2020 election mind you …

        You won’t have to hold on to it … You know … It won’t rub off on ya!

  7. I used to think a blue green party would be the way to go, but having been involved in one policy area, (Drug law) anything that’s not hard left on that topic is the policy equivalent of the flat earth society. While many may claim that The greens are more socialist than green, the truth is their “Post Portugal” Drug policies leave everyone else in the dust, and I wouldn’t compromise on that just so National no mates has a friend, even other wealthy folks who start parties based on evidence (TOP) invariably end up somewhere on the left, as the truth has a liberal bias….

    • PartisanZ

       /  January 27, 2019

      Very well put … comrade! *SARC*

      In fact, “The truth has a liberal bias” goes straight into my compendium of quotable quotes.

  8. Mother

     /  January 27, 2019

    This greeny blue option looks to be a positive move. These people could be politicians with a fresh approach to moderation. I could easily get enthusiastic too, at least consider with an open mind. Refreshment and Care within NZ’s political life could be just the ticket. It would be great to see a new group consisting of individuals whose track records are to walk the talk. Keeping National honest could be do-able and rewarding with a fresh set of legs and clear minds working autonomously.

    • Gezza

       /  January 27, 2019

      Keeping National honest could be do-able and rewarding with a fresh set of legs and clear minds working autonomously.

      Keeping any of the parties honest once they’ve got in to Parliament is probably a fruitless task. Sadly.

      • PartisanZ

         /  January 28, 2019

        And it begs the question: How do you keep the corporate-political elites who actually run the government “honest”?

        • Gezza

           /  January 28, 2019

          I don’t think they run the government Parti. I think they only influence it. I think you might be fantasizing a bit there.

          • PartisanZ

             /  January 28, 2019

            So what do you reckon the percentage difference is between corporate-political elites’ influence and citizen/voters influence?

            I reckon 80/20 …

            • Gezza

               /  January 28, 2019

              Might need to be looked at issue by issue, I think.

              How would you rate their respective influences on, say …

              1. The plastic shopping bags ban?
              2. The Winter Energy Payment?
              3. The ban on new oil exploration in Taranaki?
              4. Raising the minimum wage?
              5. Reducing sanctions on benefits?

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 28, 2019

              Excellent points …

              1. Limiting the bags ban to single-use ‘checkout’ shopping bags?
              2. Being entitled themselves to the WEP?
              3. Being fully cognisant of the oil exploration ban in advance and fully covered by existing licenses?
              4. Hmmm … Hoping for improved productivity and consumer buying power …
              5. Maybe they’ve realized that like the failure of ‘prohibition’, sanctions do not motivate people to find work, they motivate them to feel punished and engage in Black Market activities?

            • Gezza

               /  January 29, 2019

              No – I mean, for each of those, using your ratio above, how would you rate the percentages of corporate-political elites’ influence and citizen/voters influences with each one?

        • Mother

           /  January 28, 2019

          Your CPEs can be kept honest.

          The fact that National can’t keep themselves honest is frustrating of course, but there’s always a Plan B. Mr Tava and co are on to good ideas. I think they could prove great. Either National need to clean up their act (and clearly, they won’t with the present leadership) or they need to get their heads around being held to account by outsiders. More importantly, the little blue green party needs to accept a role of unpopular minority. A quietly firm truthful stance from a small group of people with integrity could keep the CPEs honest. Who wants to be popular when you can be honest? The latter is the most fun. I hope people like you join them.

  9. duperez

     /  January 28, 2019

    Vernon Tava doesn’t like it that the Greens are on the left of the political spectrum and that stops (what he sees as) positive aspects of their environmental agenda not progress.

    He seemed to intimate on RNZ today that for National to take on those ‘green’ things they need to have the Greens as a prodding knife actually in their team. So they can say, “We didn’t want to do it but we had to as part of the coalition agreement?”

    They either want to do stuff because it’s important or they don’t.