Ngāpuhi split over treaty negotiations

One of the biggest Treaty of Waitangi settlements has been one of the longest to get into negotiations, and the hardest to resolve.

One hapū, Ngāti Hine, want to split off from Ngāpuhi and do a separate deal. This may be the only way of making things happen.

RNZ in December – Ngāpuhi vote: Minister forced back to the drawing board

Treaty Negotiations Minister Andrew Little will be forced to go back to the drawing board after Ngāpuhi overwhelmingly rejected a mandate for its Treaty settlement.

Final voting results released yesterday confirmed the evolved Ngāpuhi treaty settlement mandate failed to win the vote of its people.

In November, the vote on the Evolved Mandate to move its Treaty negotiation forward was sent out to the people of Ngāpuhi.

The question of who should negotiate with the Crown has divided Ngāpuhi – some have sided with the group originally chosen – Tuhoronuku – and others have backed the hapu-based grouping, Te Kotahitanga.

It was a resounding kāhore (no) from the people of Ngāpuhi – with 73 hapū rejecting the mandate and 31 in support.The individual vote was 51 percent in favour and 48 percent against – but a threshold of 75 percent was needed to get the mandate over the line.

Mr Little said he was disappointed but the best thing right now was to “take bit of a breather”, and he was not giving up.

Wayne (presumably Mapp) commented on this recently:

Ngapuhi took a claim to the Waiting tribune on the meaning of the 1835 Declaration of Independence, and its relation to the Treaty of Waitangi. The Tribunal gave it some credence and stated Ngapuhi didn’t surrender sovereignty. But in practical terms what does that mean today? I can’t see the government going beyond the Tuhoe settlement in giving local governance powers.

The government should recognise Ngati Hine as a seperate entity if they want to settle the collective Ngapuhi claim. Some might say Ngati Hine is a hapu, but it is a hapu of 20,000 people, one third of Ngapuhi. Not sure why the government is being so obstinate about this.

https://yournz.org/2019/02/05/the-articles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi/#comment-346234

RNZ:  Ngāti Hine wants to formally split off from Ngāpuhi Treaty talks

Ngāti Hine hapū have told the Treaty Negotiations Minister they want to formally split off from the Ngāpuhi talks that have been ongoing for more than a decade.

Chairperson for Ngāti Hine, Pita Tipene, met with Mr Little on Sunday, and told him that Ngāti Hine had decided it would be seeking its own mandate.

“We’re clear about what we put to him,” Mr Tipene said.

“I think it’s been a long time coming. Certainly Ngāti Hine has always been true to its own vision statement but we’ve changed our tack now.”

He said that view had come about from a number of hui among the nine hapū in the last months, with one meeting as recently as 12 January.

“That doesn’t mean that we’ve closed off all doors to working with our neighbours on overlapping claims,” Mr Tipene said.

He said Mr Little has been canvassing a number of people about a way forward for Ngāpuhi, given the vote on the Tūhono proposal that “ended up in complete failure” at the end of last year.

But Mr Tipene said “Ngāti Hine is now very, very clear that we will be seeking our own mandate.”

Mr Little confirmed the exchange took place.

“He said that … well it seemed to be without an awareness of what it takes to shut down the current mandate – which is really a name only – and to establish a whole new mandate or a bunch of mandates,” he said.

Mr Little said he made it clear to Mr Tipene that although he has an open mind as to how things happen from here, the Crown’s position is that Ngāpuhi must work “or at least move” together.

“There needs to be coordination and cohesion. It doesn’t make sense for the Crown to be drawn in to a multiplicity of negotiations where nothing can settle or reach agreement,” he said.

But nothing is looking like being agreed on let alone or settled with Ngāpuhi  as a whole.

 

23 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  February 7, 2019

    I think they’ll end up negotiating separately with Ngati Hine. To do so looks like the only sensible way to move forward on the settlements.

  2. Blazer

     /  February 7, 2019

    Finlayson moved heaven and earth to accomodate Ngapuhi and his conclusion was that it was the personalities representing Ngapuhi at the table that were the problem.

    The individuals he mentioned appear to be obstinate and unwilling to negotiate in good faith.
    Either that or they do not understand what…’negotiate’ means.

    • Gezza

       /  February 7, 2019

      It’s Ngapuhi. Settle separately and they can then wrestle with each other instead of holding everybody to ransom while they bicker.

      • Duker

         /  February 7, 2019

        They have spent $4 MILL just on the ‘process’ without any agreement on whos even going to be the negotiating partner.

        • Gezza

           /  February 7, 2019

          Seems a bit silly. Wouldn’t they have been better to agree on who’s going to be the negotiation partner(s) first? Then spend 2 million on each?

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  February 7, 2019

            If they have your ability to hear what they want to hear rather than what was said they’ll never understand or agree on anything.

            • Gezza

               /  February 7, 2019

              Go away please. I’m not in the mood for your crap today.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 7, 2019

              You sound exactly like the morbidly obese lady with the megaphone.

            • Gezza

               /  February 7, 2019

              Neither of them appear to me to be morbidly obsese. You sound like you are just parroting some plonker who may have said that.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 7, 2019

              You’re the video man. Clip and show it then. We’ll see if it fits.

            • Gezza

               /  February 7, 2019

              Sorry Alan, I was busy. Just got back from ma’s and off to do some more chores in a few minutes, but I can spare maybe 10 mins for your crap right now.

              Christ you’re a lazy sod of a poster. I posted a pic of one of them somewhere here on Tuesday, when it happened. And I’ve seen another one of another sheila next to her also with the blower sometime this morning. Why should I go looking for them when you can?

            • Gezza

               /  February 7, 2019

              PS: You’re the one who’s asserted the lady with the megaphone is morbidly obese.

              I’m calling you on it. Produce your evidence. Chop chop.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 7, 2019

              You know I never watch videos. Tipene claimed it. I’ll accept his word until you produce counter evidence. Not that it matters, main point is you echo her.

            • PartisanZ

               /  February 7, 2019

              Alan, you should have gone there with your mate Don Brash …

              You could have insulted her personally while he was insulting her people, his hosts, communally and culturally …

              She’s definitely NOT obese.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 7, 2019

              Ok, blame Tipene for that mis-identification. Since Don didn’t insult anyone and several have described him as a very polite racist I obviously wouldn’t have had much time to insult her.

            • Gezza

               /  February 7, 2019

              No evidence. I win again.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 7, 2019

              Looks pretty porky to me:

            • Gezza

               /  February 7, 2019

              Comfortably constructed up top is all I can see in that pic. You need to do better than that for evidence of morbid obesity. Christ. Call yourself a scientist. 🙄

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 7, 2019

              If Richie is obese this one is definitely morbidly obese, Sir Gerald.

            • PartisanZ

               /  February 7, 2019

              It has been suggested I speak to you about a couple of things Alan … to do with economics and resource management … We can have an interesting rational conversation about them …

              But before I do that, I just need to say that your comments on here are mostly anachronistic, repetitious twaddle from the decaying husk of a socio-economic ideology so far past its use-by date that most landfill cerebellums will no longer accept it …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 7, 2019

              At least I’m not wanting to make it a compulsory study, PZ. So I do understand opportunity cost.

  3. duperez

     /  February 8, 2019

    If the Crown is to deal with Ngāti Hine separately, are those negotiations to be done and concluded before the negotiations with the other hapū are done? Or are the Ngāti Hine dealings to be done subsequent to the other lot?

    Is getting the Ngāti Hine done and dusted quickly the best way to proceed and getting their eight or so hapū off the agenda? Should that be the order and things proceed over many more years with the other 90?

  1. Ngāpuhi split over treaty negotiations — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition