Mental health crisis -> 1 working group -> 9 working groups

Before the election Labour said there was a crisis in mental health care.

Once in Government they set up a working group to find out if there was a crisis

400 meetings across New Zealand, 5,000 submissions and a year later the working group handed a 200 page report to the Government, who said it would take a few months to respond.

Now 9 working groups have been set up to respond to the 9 ‘themes’ of the first working group.

RNZ:  Mental health working group replacement criticised

Robyn Shearer, deputy director general of mental health and addiction, said the Mental Health and Addiction Health Sector Leadership Group (HSLG) was put on hold following criticism of its make-up.

“As the ministry has adopted the hub and spoke model, the group will cease in its role.”

The hub and spoke model – which has one central hub, co-ordinated by the Ministry of Health, and nine “spokes” based on key inquiry recommendations – was first proposed in a 14 December email.

The structure was to be co-ordinated by a small co-ordination group, covering lived experience, family-whānau, Māori, Pasifika, NGOs, primary health organisations, and a DHB representative.

“This structure would also include nine working groups, dedicated to responding to each of the Inquiry report’s themes,” acting deputy director general of mental health and addiction Maree Roberts in a December said in an email to stakeholders.

The mental health inquiry hub and spoke model (source: December email to stakeholders from Ministry of Health)

The groups would “be responsible not only for feeding into advice to government, but for providing leadership and advice on implementation of changes and improvements across the health and social system”.

The email reminded readers that the government would formally respond to the inquiry in March 2019 and that the Ministry of Health was working to provide advice.

Ms Shearer, who has recently joined the Ministry of Health, said the leadership group was initially created to help the Ministry interact with key stakeholders.

“It was never intended to be the ministry’s main mechanism for feedback following the Inquiry’s report.

“The group’s primary role in this time was to assist the ministry in planning its engagement approach following the inquiry’s release.”

However, the December email from Ms Roberts outlining the group’s approach showed the it had a significant role in gathering feedback.

The first phase was to seek feedback and inform government.

The email suggested hosting small workshops with the public.

This sounds like repeating the same thing again, albeit fragmented into different groups.

Not surprisingly there have been eyebrows raised.

Mental Health Foundation chief executive Shaun Robinson raised concerns.

“Part of our feedback was you have to be really clear what it is you’re asking people, otherwise this could look like the inquiry is just carrying on. When do we stop talking and start doing?

“I kind of thought, ‘Well, you know, I did tell you!’ So it didn’t surprise me at all when they said they were going back to the drawing board.”

It did not adequately represent Māori and people who lived with mental health, he said.

Mr Robinson said the ministry made a few mistakes in the first steps because they “literally did not have the people”.

There was also confusion among those in the mental health sector about why the government needed to seek more answers when that was the whole purpose of the inquiry.

“But there are some pretty significant and far-reaching changes suggested in the inquiry report. If you want to really make those happen, you have to be quite careful.”

one thing the need to be careful about is spending too much time and money working in groups and inquiring,

 

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95 Comments

  1. Duker

     /  9th February 2019

    Before the election Labour said there was a crisis in mental health care.”

    Which there was . Effective solutions require more information than you can have as an MP

    Thats what parties in opposition do as they dont have resources to to work out all the fine details of a policy to implement. Normally they would just ‘throw a new policy’ at a particular ministry and say – Make it happen. All the background work would happen out of the public eye.
    But this is nearly 2020 , ignoring the public in big changes doesnt work any more.
    mental health isnt the same has ‘hip operations’ , which are counted like sheep.

    This was nationals mental health bullet point at the election – and they were in government

    Budget 2017 included an extra $224m including a new $100m social investment fund that supports innovative new proposals to tackle mental health issues

    innovative new proposals ? What are they ? What will it cost – “Social investment fund ” hahahaha
    They had no idea , it just sounded good in a focus group and it would be a word salad if asked on TV about it.

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  9th February 2019

      Too many working groups – you ain’t seem nothing yet! Lets grow one into 9! ‘Let’s have a discussion about it’ should have been the Labour election slogan. Unless of course it is a ‘captain’s call’ like oil and gas where nobody got to discuss anything as it was in the govt’s best interests not to do so.

      Your continued attempts at diversion from the most inept govt in recent memory is looking somewhat…desperate.

      Reply
      • adamsmith1922

         /  9th February 2019

        And one working group begat 9 and 9 begat ?
        Anything to avoid a decision. Or have they run out of money?

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  9th February 2019

          National had dozens and dozens of working groups…every Govt has done for decades.

          Reply
          • PDB

             /  9th February 2019

            More working groups under this mob in just over a year than National over 9 years.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  9th February 2019

              complete and utter B/S.

            • PDB

               /  9th February 2019

              Counting and maths was never your forte Blazer.

            • Blazer

               /  9th February 2019

              produce your evidence-liar.

            • PDB

               /  9th February 2019

              C.O.U.N.T yourself

            • Duker

               /  9th February 2019

              No its not . very similar numbers comparing time periods- quess what someone did a list and I bookmarked it.
              The one that cost the most , was the Flag Change working group -$26 mill but that was well into government

              Review of Customer Guarantees Act to cover vehicles through online tender
              Review of Import health standard for horses
              Taskforce to speed up emergency departments
              Investigation into load bearing timber frames
              Windfarm Board of Inquiry
              Planning for new police
              Overhaul of RMA & Aquaculture
              RMA Technical Advisory Group
              Taxi Industry Safety review
              Criminal Procedure (Simplification) Project
              NCEA standards review
              Review the Sentencing Act as it relates to violent crimes against children
              Ministerial Inquiry into the disclosure of the funding shortfall in ACC’s Non-Earners Account
              select committee to review the Emissions Trading Scheme
              Auditor General initiate an inquiry into the Ministry of Education school bus transport tendering process
              Regulatory review programme to identify and remove inefficient and superfluous regulation
              Review ECE regulations
              Prisoner Classification
              report on Waterview alternatives
              Ministerial Group to advise on improving the quality and performance of the public health system
              Enabling Territorial Authorities Act 2008 to be reviewed
              Ministerial Committee on Disability Issues
              Property Managers Review
              Review of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill
              MSD review loan shark advice
              State Services Commissioner to establish failings into the management of offenders on parole.
              Prime Ministers Summit on Employment
              Ministerial Working Party on Electricity
              Methane emissions workshop
              Pacific Division Review
              Review of red tape and unnecessary bureaucracy
              Ministerial panel to review the Foreshore and Seabed Act
              Review Building Act
              Overseas Investment Act review
              Fisheries 2030
              Review of improvements that can be made to the administration of student loans and PAYE.
              Review into the Securities Act
              Review of section 92A of the Copyright Act 1994
              6 Job Summit Work Streams
              Drinking Water standards
              Local Government Act
              Nursing Council review
              investigate finfish and oyster farming opportunities in Northland
              Blue Cod Management Group

              And that only takes us into march 09

              Full list and links to press release is here
              https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f6wGvy1KkR08oFeNx97VKfOmHSHL-ZehnuACutUvNRo/edit#gid=0

            • Blazer

               /  9th February 2019

              make up your mind..’Counting and maths was never your forte Blazer.’
              LIAR.

            • PDB

               /  9th February 2019

              That is from some dude posting at The Standard Duker, and includes stuff not classed as ‘working groups’ at all as was pointed out when he put the list out.

              For balance National in May 2018 claimed they created 39 working groups after 200 days in office in comparison to the Col. govts 100th.

              https://www.national.org.nz/working_groups_and_reviews_100_and_counting

              Now we have one working group morphing into a further 9 working groups. The only LIAR is you Blazer.

            • Blazer

               /  9th February 2019

              trying the semantics defence now ..liar…

              ‘More working groups under this mob in just over a year than National over 9 years.’..as I said B/S!

            • PDB

               /  9th February 2019

              your proof I’m lying….liar?

            • Blazer

               /  9th February 2019

              HAVE A LOOK AT YOUR PANTS!

            • Duker

               /  9th February 2019

              PDB , the criteria was the same as counted by labour for nationals list.
              Most werent working groups either.
              eg Review into NCEA system.
              Digital Advisory Group.
              Climate Commission. ( which national wanted to be part of …hahahaha)
              New Chief Technology Officer role created
              State Care Abuse Royal Commission ****that was an election promise!
              Justice Minister Andrew Little takes on abortion law reform

              national party set the standard of types of review to be counted.

          • Trevors_Elbow

             /  9th February 2019

            Blazer if you are going to call someone a liar – the onus on you is to provide evidence of the lie…..can you or are you just upset by recurring John Key dreams?

            Reply
  2. Duker

     /  9th February 2019

    Heres nationals list of labour reviews etcover the 6 months
    https://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/Working%20groups%20and%20reviews.pdf

    As you can see some were very small
    “Housing stocktake report.’
    or things that would have happened anyway
    ‘Government inquiry into fuel pipe outage at Marsden Point.’

    or even stuff that was a well known national stuff up
    ‘ Independent Ministerial Advisor to speed up EQC claims. “

    Reply
    • Mother

       /  9th February 2019

      Dear oh dear. Why are people using the word ‘liar’ to express disappointment about DoO’s?

      The trouble with government is that we have in government what we as individuals deserve. Therefore, the only reason any government could be wasting resources is because we don’t know what we want. That’s why I like to state what I want. I want people to think carefully about what our values are. I want older people to talk sense to younger people.

      Difficulties in government are because we do not have enough individuals in Aotearoa presently speaking up about Christian values. As a nation, we don’t know what we want. Church is bereft of Biblical teachers and brave Christians. As far as I can see, church fellowships consist of the weak in faith, especially the leaders.

      If we had Christian values well represented in government, we would have far less frustrating wastage of resources. Church needs to step up.

      There’s no point telling me to ‘find an audience’ elsewhere. I’m not looking for an audience anyway. I’m just enjoying free speech.

      I think it’s pathetic to have political leaders who place too much emphasis on talk at that level. If the right kind of talk is not happening at family and small community level, privately, no amount of governmental talk is going to result in useful action. The pathetic ness is on us, the people.

      Jacinda would do well to use her talking ability to tell us that there will be no more public talk about suicide. Perhaps becoming a mother might help her figure out some commonly sensible solutions, and that talk in some instances makes things worse.

      Jacinda is actually teaching us a lot, and I think she has a gracious personality. I hope she will know when to step away. She was raised a Mormon and I hope that through her foray into public leadership she will discover her need for free grace in Jesus Christ. I hope for her a pleasant family life of growing up.

      We need the equilibrium of tough love.

      Tough love is positive.

      Reply
  3. Kitty Catkin

     /  9th February 2019

    Mental Health Foundation sent out an incredibly intrusive and insensitive email addressed by name to people on Neighbourly; a grinning young woman seen with her two children telling us that Christmas could be stressful blah blah blah and telling us what she was going to be doing blah blah blah….it would have achieved nothing except to make people feel worse, and as it was addressed to people by name in an email, I felt that it was a gross invasion of privacy. I stopped being a Neighbourly member and told them why I was doing it.

    Telling people who are alone about what fun it is to do this and that with the children/family is hardly helpful to those who have neither.

    Addressing it to people by name in a seperate email made it seem targeted,

    Reply
    • Mother

       /  9th February 2019

      I agree with you wholeheartedly.

      There’s just too much ‘getting into other people’s head space’ now days. It’s pathetic, weird, frustrating, condescending. People just want/need to be left alone to make the best of their lot in life.

      Church people have become the worst offenders, sadly. Sigh. It could be so different! Reality is a good place to start.

      So I’m not the only one who thinks it is cheesy when people march for suicide?

      I understand that everyone has their own way of grieving, but I’m expressing my opinion because I think many people are in copycat mode and not thinking for themselves.

      When too many individuals are not thinking for themselves, we get strange government.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  9th February 2019

        This email would be no help to anyone alone; it was rubbing their noses in it. It really did seem targeted, and I bet that a lot of people thought that it was.

        Marching for suicide or anything else is pobably useless. Look at all the marching etc over Grace Millane…did it make any difference ? Did it stop another Tinder murder (a horrible one, done in public where a brave man did all he could to stop it, beginning with slamming the car door on the killer’s leg in the hope of diverting him and then trying to pull him out of the car and being unable to because his leg was slippery with blood) in the UK ?

        Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  9th February 2019

        I disagree with the idea that suicides should be reported. It’s none of my business if someone does this, and none of anyone else’s business. People who know them will know, and people who don’t know them don’t need to know. What business is it of anyone else’s ?

        It isn’t reported when people die of other causes on the grounds that publicising X’s death of a heart attack will do some good.

        Reply
  4. Gezza

     /  9th February 2019

    Reply
  5. Ray

     /  9th February 2019

    Jami-Lee was sectioned, hardly the man in a position to take the high ground.

    Reply
    • I’m surprised that the herald is feeding him publicity for nonsense like that.

      Reply
      • PDB

         /  9th February 2019

        Why are you ‘surprised’?

        Reply
      • Duker

         /  9th February 2019

        And this wasnt nonsense from Bridges back then
        “https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/simon-bridges-says-he-regrets-calling-jami-lee-ross-health-issue-embarrassing

        or this one
        “National’s leader Simon Bridges rings Dirty Politics blogger to talk Jami-Lee Ross
        or this
        Simon Bridges rejects any suggestion he ignored medical advice for Jami-Lee Ross
        both in herald.
        and the coup de grace
        https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/simon-bridges-insists-theres-been-no-weaponising-jami-lee-ross-infidelity-allegations?variant=tb_v_1
        ‘Deputy Leader Paula Bennett suggested that Mr Ross had been involved in behaviour that was inappropriate for a married man, effectively publicising the women’s allegations against him,’

        Reply
        • I’m not going to further divert things further by rehashing everything else from the past.

          In general terms, are you suggesting a politician who has done something or said something stupid in the past shouldn’t have the right to criticise anything from then on?

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  9th February 2019

            Your complaint was that the Herald was giving him publicity – on that basis 90% would be gone just because it wasnt really newsworthy- but Bridges has had plenty of mind farts over the Ross situation.

            I listed some of Bridges mind farts for the readers. Just as Bridges was jumping in with the RNZ story on the spawn of 9 new working groups. Ross has jumped in with push back – against Bridges

            Who now remembers John Keys ‘Prime Ministerial Summit on Employment in Feb 2009
            By march 2009 it had become 6 Job Summit Work Streams
            https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/job-summit-work-streams

            And those were just the work streams Brownlee was working on.

            Reply
            • Ross showed yet again that he can’t be taken at his word of leaving last year’s issues with Bridges and National behind him with having a targeted niggle that really had no relevance to the issue of the fragmenting of the mental health inquiry. Dredging up old gripes is something he and you seem to have in common.

      • PDB

         /  9th February 2019

        I actually agree that using the word ’embarrassing’ & saying Ross was involved in “behaviour that was inappropriate for a married man” was very poor – however that doesn’t negate the large part of Ross in his own downfall & the fact the MSM would be better off ignoring his need for publicity to fuel his narcissism.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  9th February 2019

          perhaps Bridges could explain why mental health was in crisis ?
          nationals idea of a solution is to promise amount for a ‘fund’ , which of course may or may not be spent, and that ‘fund’ maybe just a previous policy ‘re- announced’
          $224 mill over 4 years ?
          An analysis of mental health funding in the 2017 Budget shows the announced funding ‘boost’ of $224 million over four years announced by Ministers is largely illusory. In 2017/18, mental health services funded by the Health budget are likely to receive just $18 million extra funding – an increase of approximately 1.2%, which is a cut in real terms.

          By saying ‘over 4 years’ they get it to extend outside budget projections, so Isnt locked in, and best of all can be ‘reused’ in new announcements

          And the need ?
          ‘Increase in Mental Health clients in year 2015/16 reported by DHBs to Ministry of Health: 5.8%.
          Assume conservatively that the increase is 5% in 2017/18.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  9th February 2019

            part of the trickery extended to DHB funding , as the national government took over DHBs outstanding debt . Which meant the money going to DHBs was just to pay off debt on the books , which was transferred to central government accounts.
            And the interest ? , the DHBs continued to pay THAT
            Budget headline was still ‘ $879m health funding increase announced yesterday”
            It was all a con, moving the pea and hoping no one would notice.

            Reply
          • Mother

             /  9th February 2019

            “Ross showed yet again that he can’t be taken at his word of leaving last year’s issues with Bridges and National behind him with having a targeted niggle that really had no relevance to the issue of the fragmenting of the mental health inquiry.”

            So far, Mr Ross has kept his word. He hasn’t retaliated by exposing personal secrets as they unfairly did to him. I think this is what he was referring to when he came back saying that he didn’t intend to cause trouble.

            Calling on leaders to have integrity is another matter. Mr Ross is correct to do this . It has relevance to mental health enquiries.

            That our government is knee deep in mental health issues is frustrating. But since we are in this place, let’s look at the issues with consistency.

            Reply
            • “So far, Mr Ross has kept his word”

              No he hasn’t kept his word. he has kept attacking Bridges, Bennett and National.

              “He hasn’t retaliated by exposing personal secrets”

              He exposed and named Dowie on radio last year. He has distributed private recordings, effectively party secrets. There was quite a bit of retaliating going on on his behalf at Whale Oil.

              I don’t think having a niggle at Bridges has done his chances of rehabilitation as an MP any good. It looked to me more like spite than holding to account.

            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              Perhaps you’re a real decent man Mr George. Perhaps that’s why Mr Ross’ actions look more like spite to you.

              I certainly know you were one of very few who could return to me my freedom of speech.

        • High Flying Duck

           /  9th February 2019

          I’m pretty sure that “innapropriate” comment was in relation to his treatment of the women rather than the actual affairs per se.

          Reply
          • Mother

             /  9th February 2019

            All the info re his treatment of woman was gossip. Nothing solid. No evidence. No fairness in reporting.

            Reply
    • Duker

       /  9th February 2019

      No he wasnt. he was “assessed” first as is required and then given some meds to go home.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  9th February 2019

        I’m thinking it’s not really such a smart move from Jami-Lee seeing I suspect most people think he’s just been pulling another number with the mental health thing.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  9th February 2019

          Most people think?
          he was under the care of a psychiatrist.( which Bridges had known about -he called it embarrassing) and you think he was faking it

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  9th February 2019

            I believe he saw a psychiatrist and was assessed. Nobody has seen the assessment. Naturally. If is confidential unless the patient agrees to release it. So we have no idea what the assessment was. It can be claimed to be anything. The psychiatrist can’t correct anything said that is not correct.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  9th February 2019

              he was “assessed” at the hospital after taken there by police.
              he was already under care of psychiatrist- who was the one who called police.
              let it go . he was sick . You are sounding like a dickhead on something you dont even recall let alone the background

            • Gezza

               /  9th February 2019

              I’m not bothered if I sound like a dickhead to you. I think you’re an odd character yourself. I’m still trying to figure you out. Sometimes that’s why I reply to you and say the things I do. As I say we don’t know what the full story was. Seeing a psychiatrist and being under the active care of one are two different things and I should know.

            • Duker

               /  9th February 2019

              Ive worked you out , even the surname??

            • Identifying people who comment under pseudonyms is not allowed here (and on most blogs). If that’s your intent here then don’t.

            • Gezza

               /  9th February 2019

              @ duker
              Yes I wondered if you were trying to do that yesterday but I think you might be wrong. You were wrong about one assumption there. Hope so anyway. Best not to have a go at coming out with it.

            • Gezza

               /  9th February 2019

              Btw, that was one of the things I was trying to work out about you. Is that the type of person you are.

        • Mother

           /  9th February 2019

          The most prominent issue about mental health for the person who is experiencing an unhappy time is that –
          You’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t.

          I think you people are showing your ignorance re mental health.

          Media? Surprised by media feeding nonsense?

          My view – Mr Ross is being brave. SB and PB (especially) were callous. SB was strange.

          Which would you rather?
          – the unhappy person slink away, never to get up again? Or
          – the unhappy person decide that he’s got nothing to lose so he might as well risk being damned over and over….for some people this must continue until they reach an internal equilibrium. (Would you deny this life’s journey for anyone?)

          Mr Ross chose politics as his profession. He doesn’t know any other form of work.

          Jacinda would say – Be kind.

          I say, Go Mr Ross. SB indeed is not one to champion mental health.

          Poor mental health is mostly nothing more nor nothing less than a person’s internal deceit.

          Poor mental health can hit anyone at any time. It brews in private. Be kind. Mr Bridges might not enjoy good mental health for all we know. We need good government! Anyone who challenges Mr Bridge’s integrity could be doing us all a favour.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  9th February 2019

            Well, some people here I guess might not have experienced any mental health problems themselves but I’m not one of them. And what has me curious and a little suspicious is why JLR would want to start a public attack on Simon Bridges over this comment.

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  9th February 2019

            Poor mental health is mostly nothing more nor nothing less than a person’s internal deceit.

            That shows such an appallingly ignorant understanding of the range of genuine mental health problems and their causes that I think you must be taking the piss.

            Reply
          • Mother

             /  9th February 2019

            Ms Dowie cannot be enjoying good mental health either.

            What makes me bold is the fact that there is a move amongst youth to come out honest about the poor state of society. They are hurting because of poor choices by their elders and leaders.

            For example – youth are talking more about the notion that they can move on freely and without internal bad repercussions for their promiscuous choices. They are beginning to challenge people like Ms Dowie!

            No, she can’t move on mentally well from her adultery and poor leadership choices. Sex does not work that way. A lawyer should be intelligent enough to figure that out.

            Her smiling face to the media was a sad facade. I’ll bet Mr Ross knows that. Mr Bridges does too. Therefore, he’s cheating the National party.

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  9th February 2019

              JFK was lauded as a great president but shagged everything that moved whilst married (even with a stuffed back). Tiger Woods was the world’s best golfer whilst doing the same & ironically hasn’t been the same golfer since he was doing so.

              Gezza is dead right above in saying that your understanding behind the causes of mental health issues is pretty much zero which makes your lengthy preaching on the subject an unfunny joke.

            • Duker

               /  9th February 2019

              You cant even count the number of national government reviews/working groups let alone know what mental health issues an MP has

            • PDB

               /  9th February 2019

              What we can confirm is that you have more ‘whataboutisms’ away from discussions not favouring the Coalition govt than all working groups total by both govts.

            • Duker

               /  9th February 2019

              Such as , Early 2009:
              Review of improvements that can be made to the administration of student loans and PAYE.
              Review into the Securities Act
              Review of section 92A of the Copyright Act 1994
              6 Job Summit Work Streams
              Drinking Water standards
              Local Government Act
              Nursing Council review
              investigate finfish and oyster farming opportunities in Northland
              Blue Cod Management Group

              And who knew the 2009 Jobs Summit could spawn 6 Work Streams

              but by Jun 2009 it was falling over
              http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2524893/Jobs-summit-fails-to-deliver

            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              My comment said that poor mental health is MOSTLY nothing more or less than…

              Of course there are a range of genuine depilidating mental illnesses with various causes. Let’s hope these remain in a minority. Also, that we practice good medicine and care.

              Yes, you’re right. I’m ignorant. Mental health is a complex field.

              Sometimes I joke a little on YourNZ, but mostly I’m very serious. People not being able to take a joke is on the increase. I think it goes hand in hand with a general decline in Aotearoa’s mental health. People generally are very precious about themselves. We lack resilience and self righteousness is rampant. No amount of governmental talk will positively change that.

              For the record, I never joke with Gezza.

            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              Sorry, that should say “I don’t attempt to do so anymore.”

            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              Since comments about Mr Ross have appeared again (and I thought I was so sick of it I wouldn’t ever comment again) –

              Why do people presume he was given medication when he was sectioned? Perhaps all he received was a kind non judgemental listening ear?

              I personally had many times of going off alone when my life was thick with PCANZ abuse. I used to ask God to make me invisible so that no one would suspect anything was amiss. If police had come for me, I would have hated that and most likely kicked up a stink, which would of course caused a sectioning experience. My husband knew not to put out a missing person’s call. He trusts God too.

              Mr Ross’ woes were self inflicted. Mine weren’t. Yet I have empathy for him, and I am appalled by the bad attitudes. I suppose I should not be surprised.

            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              PDB, I don’t see any relevance re your mentioning adulterous high profile men.

              Perhaps – just perhaps? –

              Do men in Aotearoa think that women are inferior and that shameful shagging is to be expected by politicians? Are they ‘ho hum, it’s to be expected. It’s always been that way’?

              If this is the general attitude, then it would be better to say so outright. That way, we’ll have the opportunity to talk intelligently about the equality issue and the best way forward from here.

              I see that you accuse someone else of diverting tactics.

            • PDB

               /  9th February 2019

              The point was that being an adulterer doesn’t automatically mean you can’t do your job well.

            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              That coming from a man. What do they say? Speak for yourself.

              A woman? No way. Ms Dowie could not perform anywhere near her potential with all that deceit and nonsense. She’s a mother. And sex is different for a woman than it is for a man, to state the obvious.

              This is both an equality issue and a potential turning point for Aotearoa – if Mr Ross continues to stand his ground. I hope he does.

            • High Flying Duck

               /  9th February 2019

              Mother – you point blank state that Dowie “could not perform anywhere near her potential ” purely because she is a woman, and then talk about it being an equality issue.
              The hypocrisy is strong in this one!
              Mr Ross is out on his ear because of his other actions, as has been mentioned ad nauseum, but you keep going back to the affairs – and even there he’s on at least 4 affairs where he was apparently lying to all of them vs the single affair of Dowie.
              There is simply no comparison between the betrayals and duplicity of Ross and that of Dowie.

            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              Mr Duck, most people don’t know why Mr Ross is out. Things are rarely as they seem.

            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              ‘…by comparison?’ Whose comparison? What comparison?

              I think I have shown more scientific consistency in my comparisons than most of you here.

              One of the reasons Aotearoa is on dangerous territory mental health wise is because of judgemental attitudes from older folk who unfairly compare this and that.

            • High Flying Duck

               /  9th February 2019

              Who are you calling “Older”?
              Ross is out because he threw himself out of the party by betraying his own. He was an accident waiting to happen.
              He was Aaron Gilmore, Todd Barclay and Darren Hughes rolled into one particularly unsavoury package.
              But you know, keep up the forgiveness. And the hypocrisy of what women can and cannot do because they are women.

            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              Mr Duck, you are misrepresenting me. I have not mentioned forgiveness re Mr Ross. It hadn’t entered my head. That’s a stupid snide. And it seems you do not understand the meaning of hypocrisy. I thought you might be joking when you first mentioned it. To know whether a person is a hypocrite takes a lot more than a few comments on a blog.

              You also display ignorance about Aotearoa’s equality quest.

            • Blazer

               /  9th February 2019

              Simon says Sarah is just a star rossed lover, who should surely stay on as a sorry sight for sore I’s,so suck eggs sexist simpletons.(I’s =Invercargill voters)

  6. Duker

     /  9th February 2019

    When you think about the ‘personality traits’ of JLR , another Mp comes to mind
    Rodney Hide.
    ” Heather Roy’s statement to the Act caucus when she was dumped as deputy leader portray Act leader Rodney Hide as an abusive, intimidating bully…”
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10667067

    And Hide had some issues with his marital life and a new girlfriend 20 yrs younger than him.
    Disgusting way to end’, says Hide’s wife
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10639142
    of course his new girlfriend was working as a coach at the Remuera Rackets Club where Hide used the Gym.
    https://www.rrc.co.nz/gym/

    I suppose we can be grateful , unlike JLR, there wasnt sex on the office desk – which with Melanies Reids creative writing telling became ‘brutal’

    Reply
    • High Flying Duck

       /  9th February 2019

      If only the journalist he was involved with would out themselves and write an expose on the torrid “50 Shades of Ross” so we can have the definitive account.
      Or we can focus on his other actions which were why he was turfed.

      Reply
      • I haven’t seen any journalist say that Ross’s going public, attacking his party leaders and party, secretly recording conversations with colleagues, and releasing recordings had any redeeming features. All I have seen is journalists condemning Ross for this behaviour, and stating the obvious – that Ross can’t be trusted as a politician. All journalists I have seen writing or talking about it expect Ross will be dumped as soon as he goes for re-election.

        Reply
        • Mother

           /  9th February 2019

          We’ve been through all this before too.

          Mr Ross cannot be trusted as a politician. Agreed. His ex leaders? His cohorts?

          Why don’t some of you form a political party? It could be more fun than blogging. You could appoint a member to follow all the social media for reporting back on the people’s views, esp their state of mental health.

          Reply
          • Ross is also going to find trust difficult in relationships too.

            None of us know his actual mental health situation. Al we know is what he has claimed, and I don’t trust him on that. He seems too self interested and contradictory.

            Reply
            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              It’s a ‘wait and see for the long haul’ situation.

            • In relationships? Perhaps.

              But for a lot of people a breach of trust – cheating or having an affair – is difficult if not impossible to get over. Four affairs or however many Ross has had make the odds of repairing trust pretty slim.

            • Duker

               /  9th February 2019

              Claimed?
              Bridges has backed it with his knowledge of Ross medical treatment. In fact on ‘that night’ Bridges Chief of staff rang Ross’s doctor.
              With Bridges behind the curtain pulling the stringsof his own CoS, let Lady McBennett role
              ( Lady Macbeth goads her husband into committing regicide, after which she becomes queen of Scotland. Later, however, she suffers pangs of guilt for her part in the crime, which drives her to sleepwalk. She dies off-stage in the last act, an apparent suicide.)

            • Mother

               /  9th February 2019

              I disagree. If my husband had crazy numerous sexual affairs, it would be easier to understand and forgive than if he had secretly attached himself to one other woman and was genuinely confused about where he belonged, and about whose children he wished to raise.

              A crazy loveable ambitious man is easier for a wife (who understands her man) to forgive than a husband who is not sure who he desires to be faithful to.

              Anyway, we could leave this issue to the people whose story it is?

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  9th February 2019

      We’ve been through this before. The notes were written by Roy’s aide, not her, and subsequently to the Herald’s article on them she denied accusing Hide of bullying her. It’s a worry when you repeat stuff that you know has been discredited. That’s Blazer trolling.

      Reply
  7. Mother

     /  9th February 2019

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/02/jami-lee-ross-rips-into-simon-bridges-in-mental-health-tweet.html

    This is nothing but gutter slush.

    The government should put a halt to all MSM. Social media does better. On TV they should have politicians taking turns reading the classics, history, plus all sorts (an even representation) of religious works.

    Then the politician could have a half hour talking about their pet issue, followed by a live vote for his/her stated proposals.

    This could be followed by a member of the public/wannabe politician (selected by ballot) having a speaking slot.

    To finish off this family friendly session, the politician would then have the privilege of reading his favourite children’s picture book.

    Reply
    • Mother

       /  9th February 2019

      “…plus all sorts (an even representation) of religious works.”

      That would include atheists’ and agnostics’ views. Please excuse me if I left anyone out.

      Oh, and all leaders of non secular groups would be excluded.

      Reply
  8. PartisanZ

     /  9th February 2019

    If we’re going to tackle the subject of mental health in-depth we can’t afford to skimp on working groups …

    Righties, do not feel anxious or alarmed … These 9 working groups will eventually pay for themselves many times over … even in (dare I say it) “productivity & efficiency” …

    Mental health has ripples and ramifications across every field of human activity and society … from healthy diet and exercise through work satisfaction & work-life balance – or finding your “life’s work” – to accidents and physical disease …

    It touches every facet of our lives … perhaps especially ‘informed choice’?

    ‘Production & Consumption’ will surely benefit … even if somewhat different benefits stem from different sorts of ‘units’ …

    More your ‘Human Being’ sort …

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  9th February 2019

      If mental health improvements are based on the number of working groups why stop at nine? 20 or 30 I say.

      Or just maybe the govt is deliberately delaying dealing with this problem whilst its very low talent pool struggles with such issues as their failing Kiwibuild & Shane Jones slush fund policies whilst also gearing up to sell the voters a CGT.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  9th February 2019

        What kind of a capitalist are you PDB? Why have 20 or 30 WGs when 9 will cover the field.

        You can treat political policies separately when you want to, eh? Health, education, justice, law & order …

        A bunch of brilliant people might be working on mental health even while mediocre minds are struggling with what ‘Kiwibuild’ or anything by any other name can do with the disastrous outcomes of National’s housing policies during their 9 years of government …

        The PGF simply doesn’t work in the way Rightie adherents of TNBT ‘The Next Big Thing’ can understand … especially having worked themselves into a lather about Four Lanes to Whangarei and the next America’s Cup … a waterfront stadium … and various other contemporary expressions of Think Big …

        A CGT will never be “sold to voters” in NZ … It can only be imposed on them … for their own good of course … complete with reduced income tax …

        You’ll get used to it PDB … like unemployed, under-and-casually employed members of the Precariat have had to get used to neoliberalism for all these years …

        Reply
  9. Patricia

     /  9th February 2019

    “A crazy loveable ambitious man is easier for a wife (who understands her man) to forgive than a husband who is not sure who he desires to be faithful to.”
    Speak for yourself lady. If my husband had an affair he could sling his hook.

    Reply
    • Mother

       /  9th February 2019

      Yes, I feel the same.
      Hi Patricia.
      Kia ora.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  9th February 2019

        Seems to be almost a pre-requisite for many male MPs nowadays though, doesn’t it?

        As though ‘prestige’ attaches to sexual prowess and infidelity …

        Reply
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