Open Forum – Friday

15 February 2019

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40 Comments

  1. PartisanZ

     /  February 15, 2019

    ‘Dunne: Ditch the lolly jar and start listening’ – Newsroom

    “The fundamental tensions that have dogged regional development policy are a subset of a much deeper unresolved problem – the challenging relationship between central government and local government, writes Peter Dunne.”

    On seeing the headline I was almost tempted to comment positively about Peter Dunne! Can you imagine!!!?

    He who single-handedly proved that the issue of marijuana is not about cannabis at all, or even about any particular substance (or poison), but about little other than ‘licensing’ … government ‘control’ and government revenue … because he licensed ‘synthetic’ *SHIT* and contributed to the pervasive idea this *SHIT* is marijuana or cannabis of some sort …

    But upon reading the “Lolly Jar” article I needn’t have worried. This is just another Dunne attempted ‘hit job’ on the Coalition … this time via the PGF, Shane Jones, NZFirst and a massive though tenuous presumption about the relationship of central and local government …

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/02/14/441289/dunne?preview=1

    “The common point in all these cases has been that they have been determined and imposed from the centre – something that will be “good” for the regions, rather than as a consequence of listening to the regions about the infrastructure they want to let them do their business better … The patronising, lolly-jar, ‘the Minister knows best’ approach the Provincial Growth Fund has exemplified so far is hardly the way to do that, and will ultimately exacerbate rather than reduce these tensions.”

    Even as a relative outsider to PGF activities in Far North & Northland, it is plainly apparent Dunne has little comprehension of what’s going on … and instead is contorting the situation to suit his own agenda – whatever that may be? Extra retirement income from ‘journalism’ perhaps? But I suspect something more sinister: Major extra retirement income as a ‘Hit Man’ Blue Tinge Brigade Media Advisor & Consultant?

    The major projects I know of in te Far North ALL have Local Government Corporations [Far North Holdings, Northland Inc etc] and their subsidiary ‘Governance Arms’ – Councils – at their very centre … Waipapa Roundabout, BOI Airport, Manea Cultural Centre Opononi and Te Hononga Centre at Hundertwasser Park in Kawakawa … to name a few …

    The PGF clearly and evidently HAS BEEN LISTENING!

    Dunne’s analysis ‘sounds’ intelligent – a sort of ‘sneering’ acuity – and contains a few cogent points about that historical Central-to-Local Government relationship, but these are totally eclipsed by his straight-out assassination attempts full of unsubstantiated transumptions, ranging all the way back to Second Labour 1957-60 …

    If Chinese money is behind Don Brash … a suspicion aroused by his Waitangi appearance … I wonder who’s money is behind Dunne nowadays?

    • PartisanZ

       /  February 15, 2019

      The new $11 million Community Hub at Kaikohe will no doubt benefit from PGF funds …

      Great!

      In some ways the PGF is and has always been a covert mechanism by which this new, sensible and compassionate Central government can disburse more funds back to ‘the provinces’ and tangibly support Local government socio-economic initiatives …

      Long may it run!

      Sorry it didn’t include a Four Lane Motorway Auckland-to-Whangarei … but National must learn … that’s what comes from putting all your Pork Barrel ‘Golden Eggs’ in one basket-case …

      • Duker

         /  February 15, 2019

        National cancelled the Manawatu Gorge diversion project back in 2010 after the first big slip and instead stuck with a cheaper ‘rebuild’ of existing road through Gorge …which was all wasted as geology won that battle.
        The reason , they needed the funds for RONS, regional NZ missed out on that one.

        When I lived in Rotorua , just before the 2012 election, out came plans for ‘bypass to the airport ‘ – which solved none of Rotoruas heavy truck issues but was a bright shiny thing to be offered to voters. After the election it was cancelled by Bridges the new Transport minister as the money went on Rons around Tauranga

      • Gezza

         /  February 15, 2019

        Nice piece of work, these two posts of yours, Parti. Very readable. Would have made an excellent Guest Post. I note your comment above:

        The major projects I know of in te Far North ALL have Local Government Corporations [Far North Holdings, Northland Inc etc] and their subsidiary ‘Governance Arms’ – Councils – at their very centre … Waipapa Roundabout, BOI Airport, Manea Cultural Centre Opononi and Te Hononga Centre at Hundertwasser Park in Kawakawa … to name a few …

        The PGF clearly and evidently HAS BEEN LISTENING!

        I’m all for putting a good chunk of tne budget into regional development & I hope it pays dividends. The concern I have & that I think many others have is whether some of them WILL actually pay the dividends hoped for because there may not have been a sound business case put together to show that they will, and HOW they will, and how the project management & enterprise governance will operate.

        I would hate to see such schemes fail because the money just disappears improperly accounted for down a hole without producing the projected outcomes that were in the proposal. It’s made me wary hearing Shane Jones talk about a bunch of inexperienced Ministers being the people who decide on whether to give a proposal funding, sometimes without, or maybe against, the advice of officials.

        However, that doesn’t necessarily mean there haven’t been good proposals that actually look quite sound & are worth a shot. Have you actually dug in to any of these proposals above to see what info was supplied to the PGF Ministerial Group?

        • PartisanZ

           /  February 15, 2019

          What sort of ‘scheme’ is a roundabout at the intersection of SH10 and Waipapa Road?

          How do measure the ‘financial success’ of it? Or of extensions to BOI Airport at Kerikeri for that matter? Some jobs in the building of the new terminal?

          More flights by AirNZ are unlikely … Increased visitor numbers?

          Many PGF ‘projects’ are basically just Local Government infrastructure subsidies.

          They’re Rates subsidies … because Local Governments are failing to do their job on their Rating Base …

        • PartisanZ

           /  February 15, 2019

          Sorry … Didn’t see your question at the end.

          Basically no … although I tried a little with Manea Cultural Centre … which turns out to be such a long-term, nepotistic, legitimately corrupt, complicated and convoluted project I doubt anyone will ever unravel its ‘secrets’ ….

          I’d dearly love a top investigative journalist like say David Fisher to have a go though …

          It would be a very revealing and distasteful object lesson on how ‘business’ is done in the public-private sector nowadays …

  2. Blazer

     /  February 15, 2019

    part of a Govt that gave Auckland the Super City.

    The case was so compelling,the efficiencies,the synergies,the cost savings….and the result…

    completely the opposite…naturellement.

  3. Blazer

     /  February 15, 2019

    an excerpt from Paradise Lost-Milton.

    ‘Hurling defiance toward the vault of Heaven.
    There stood a Hill not far whose grisly top
    Belched fire and rolling smoke; the rest entire
    Shone with a glossy scurf, undoubted sign
    That in his womb was hid metallic ore,
    The work of sulfur. Thither winged with speed
    A numerous brigade hastened. As when bands
    Of pioneers with spade and pickax armed
    Forerun the royal camp, to trench a field,
    Or cast a rampart. Mammon led them on,
    Mammon, the least erected spirit that fell
    From Heaven, for even in Heaven his looks and thoughts
    Were always downward bent, admiring more
    The riches of Heavens pavement, trodden gold,
    Then aught divine or holy else enjoyed
    In vision beatific: by him first
    Men also, and by his suggestion taught,
    Ransacked the center, and with impious hands
    Rifled the bowels of their mother Earth
    For treasures better hid. Soon had his crew
    Opened into the hill a spacious wound
    And digged out ribs of gold. Let none admire
    That riches grow in Hell; that soil may best
    Deserve the precious bane. And here let those
    Who boast in mortal things, and wondering tell
    Of Babel, and the works of Memphian kings
    Learn how their greatest monuments of fame,
    And strength and art are easily out-done
    By spirits reprobate, and in an hour
    What in an age they with incessant toil
    And hands innumerable scarce perform.
    Nigh on the plain in many cells prepared,
    That underneath had veins of liquid fire
    Sluiced from the lake, a second multitude
    With wondrous art found out the massy ore,
    Severing each kind, and scummed the bullion dross:’

  4. duperez

     /  February 15, 2019

    Bugger, have to get some other meat for the barbecue tomorrow. I can’t run the risk of someone being there who read Heather du Plessis-Allan and coming at me with “The sausage is a phallic symbol FYI.”

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  February 15, 2019

      HDPA complains that Jacinda is being criticised for not knowing anything about house building because she is a woman. How many women do know anything about house building? I bet HDPA knows nothing and that is how Jacinda gets elected on the ignorant female vote.

      • Gezza

         /  February 15, 2019

        My dentist & his wife who assisted him this morning chatted while we waited for the local anaesthetic to kick in. They both vote National & will probably do so again but think Simon’s all over the place & don’t like him. Their middle-aged recptionist is voting for Janinda because she thinks she cares about people & National don’t. They all think Kiwibuild is a dead duck & that so should Twyford be.

        • Blazer

           /  February 15, 2019

          did they ask your political allegiance?…at least before they administered the…anaesthetic!😁

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 15, 2019

            No, because he came through it, unlike the poor sod in the Agatha Christie.

          • Gezza

             /  February 15, 2019

            @Blazer – no, but I told them I was politically non-tribal & that I post on a political forum & am fascinated with our political situation at the moment. I dunno what it is I’m doing right – people are often pretty guarded about politics – but in concersations with relative strangers I seem to manage to get all sorts of people to talk politics & tell me how they’d vote if an election was held tomorrow – and why. And what they think of various polticians.

            I mean, there’s nothing earth-shattering about it, nor does it give any insights to how an election will turn out, but I’m often surprised at who people say they will vote for – or who they voted for last time, & often other people will chime in. It’s always good natured. And it beats talking about the weather.

            I’ve only really started doing this since I came to this forum.

        • Corky

           /  February 15, 2019

          Just got back from the dentist myself. $165 for a small filling replacement. We were talking about Brexit, while the receptionist and another patient talked Japanese.
          My lower jaw is still numb.

          • Blazer

             /  February 15, 2019

            did you make an impression…or weren’t they ..interested?

          • Gezza

             /  February 15, 2019

            Upper right premolar needed a filling & the one next to it needed a temp dressing. Just as well I didn’t go to a cafe for a coffee afterwards because a lot of the one I made at home kept ending up on my kitchen bench no matter how carefully I tried to drink it. Anaesthetic’s worn off now thank goodness.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  February 15, 2019

      So THAT’S why some people think that the ad is about domestic violence,

      What do they think about ads FOR sausages ? Or lipsticks ?

      To the dirty-minded, all things are dirty.

    • PartisanZ

       /  February 15, 2019

      Well … Just imagine all the tall buildings we’re going to have to dismantle …

    • Gezza

       /  February 15, 2019

      @duperez

      That Sound of Silence music video you posted last night. Listened to it today. Really like it.

  5. David

     /  February 15, 2019

    Fun times in the US Democrat party this week. We have the bondoogle in Virginia with the number 1 and 3 guilty of blackface (farcical as it happened 25 plus years ago) and KKK pictures he put in a yearbook. Number 2 Democrat in the state seems to have a problem with no means no and this time there is credible corroboration.
    The new Democrat Muslim congresswoman from Minessota is an anti-semite her own party are fleeing from, she has past form.
    Amazon has pulled the pin on billions in investment in NY and are blaming the hostility whipped up by AOC (cant be arsed spelling her name) who is celebrating on twitter at 25000 well paying jobs not happening. Her Green New Deal which is full of absurd rubbish now has Democrat leaders fleeing from it and crying after cocaine Mitch asked them to vote on their own bill.
    Every other headline is “Republicans pounce” and that is because the Dems are just a horror show now they have the power. Admittedly they have bested Trump on the border wall but now he will campaign in 2020 against a Dem candidate wanting open borders..the same ones who want free healthcare and welfare for folk who chose not to work. Not sure they have made the link in giving free stuff away and having open borders could be a mistake.

    • lurcher1948

       /  February 15, 2019

      Don’t worry about Sir Keys choina worry about Corkys tRumps America

      • Corky

         /  February 15, 2019

        That’s right, son. Tomorrow is the big announcement. Suck it up..like a man?

    • Gezza

       /  February 15, 2019

      @ Blazer

      PG posted a tweet yesterday from Liam Dann linking to the Herald article that contains vids of a short & an extended interview with this chap Mahon, referred to in that article of yours. I watched the short version. It looked like a good interview with someone who know what he’s talking about & how the Chinese govt indicates its displeasure by applying full process to your exports.

      https://yournz.org/2019/02/14/china-relationship-a-sensitive-issue-for-ardern/#comment-349218

  6. Corky

     /  February 15, 2019

    China starting to apply the hurt to us. The sooner Britain leaves the EU, the better for us.

    • PartisanZ

       /  February 15, 2019

      China obviously really rates ‘influence’ very highly …

      They’ve spent a lot of money and effort cultivating it here.

      What have we got that Britain needs now that ‘She’ isn’t already buying from us?

      What has she got that we want?

      More of the ‘Right’ kind of immigrants eh Corky?

      • Gezza

         /  February 15, 2019

        Shared language, culture, political system, a democratic society where if you’re not satified with your PM or government you can change them without fear of state arrest & retribution just by voting them out. Just off the top of my head. I’m hoping the UK might have another look at whether it might want to try & increase trade with commonwealth countries. I certainly don’t like having too many of our eggs in China’s basket meaning tbey can squeeze us ecomically when they’re not happy with our diplomatic stance because it’s not pro-China enuf.

        • PartisanZ

           /  February 15, 2019

          Is that why we’ve been sucking up to them for 35 years!?

          JOKE: Why aren’t computers ‘Made in England’ …?

          Because they can’t find a way to make them leak oil ………. DA DUMB!!!

          Does Mother England have dirt cheap labour?

          Does the Old Home Country have massive Central Government funded manufacturing enterprises willing to gear up at short notice for large production runs of almost anything … no matter how useless the ‘commodity’ may be … Baubles and Trinkets?

          Are Avalonians ready to put up millions or billions of dollars to build Toll Roads in other peoples’ countries? And will English Ladies & Gentlemen want to spend mega-bucks trying to influence our political landscape? Why would they … It’s much the same as theirs …

          The days of Common Wealth are over I reckon. We’ve sold-out too often and for far too little, gone too far down the ‘globalization’ track …

          In Darwinian terms, as the runt of the Western Litter, we’ve got to run with the Alpha Male.

          Any Rightie worth their salt will agree with me. Watch the upticks …