Christchurch shootings – police updates

There has been a lot of information flying around over the mosque shootings, and a lot of emotion and accusations and assumptions. The police are doing their best to inform the public, but facts are slow to emerge.

We can rightly feel horrified, but I think we need to be careful not to promote publicity for those who murdered and injured people to get publicity.

The latest police statement: Commissioner Mike Bush outlines the latest information about the shootings in Christchurch today.

He confirms that three men and a woman are in custody, but they cannot assume that there are not others at large.

He says the danger may not be over. And there were explosive devices found on cars. So it is a live situation with  lot yet to be revealed.

We shouldn’t assume danger is gone. Won’t assume there aren’t others.
A number of IEDs attached to vehicles they have stopped, made safe by defence personnel.

Earlier:

UPDATE 1

Please attribute to Police Commissioner Mike Bush:

In response to a serious ongoing firearms incident in Christchurch all Christchurch schools have been placed into lockdown.

Police urge anyone in central Christchurch to stay off the streets and report any suspicious behaviour immediately to 111.

Further information will be released as it becomes available.

UPDATE 2

Please attribute to Police Commissioner Mike Bush:

A serious and evolving situation is occurring in Christchurch with an active shooter.

Police are responding with its full capability to manage the situation, but the risk environment remains extremely high.

Police recommend that residents across Christchurch remain off the streets and indoors until further notice. Christchurch schools will be locked down until further notice.

Police thanks the public for their cooperation and will provide further updates to keep residents informed.

UPDATE 3

Police are responding to a very serious and tragic incident involving an active shooter in central Christchurch.

One person is in custody, however Police believe there may be other offenders.


UPDATE 4

Due to the ongoing serious firearms incident in Central Christchurch Police would like to remind all parents and caregivers that schools across the city remain in lock down.

There is no timeframe at this stage for when the lock down will be lifted. The children are being taken care of by schools. On advice from Police, schools will communicate directly with parents when the lock down is lifted.

The safety of the community is our priority.

We will provide updates on the incident as and when they are available and you can get these on our Facebook (link is external) page and website.

Media please note the stand up with Commissioner Mike Bush has been pushed back to 5.30pm. This will be held at the Royal Society on Turnbull Street, Thorndon, Wellington.

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104 Comments

  1. unitedtribes2

     /  March 15, 2019

    One has to ask if the police new that this group was in NZ with the guns they had.
    Looking at the video there are probably more than 20 dead

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  March 15, 2019

      The guns are not illegal. but the magazines he had are.

      It may be time to rethink the laws around these weapons; ‘American guns’ as the NRA calls them.

      Reply
      • Griff.

         /  March 15, 2019

        There is no useful purpose for semi auto military style fire arms like AR15/AK47 clones or pump action shotguns beside killing humans.
        They have no use for hunting they are merely toys for rambo wannabes , gun nuts and the weapons of choice mass murdering whackos.
        Ban new sales today and have an amnesty on giving up those already here.
        Once a year is up make it a reasonable jail term to posses any thing semiauto with a bigger caliber or magazine than a .22LR pest hunting rifle like a rugger 1022.
        Gun nuts and their crys of unfair can fuck off.
        One more death is one to many …..

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  March 15, 2019

          Good idea. Excellent idea.

          Put that to the appropriate minister. Your idea is well thought out, not a neurotic kneejerk reaction….

          I agree, people’s right to stay alive is greater than some fuckwit with a tiny prick’s right to have one of these weapons.

          Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  March 15, 2019

          I agree. Good idea … Excellent idea.

          Wow … Look at the downticks … this is actually kinda FREAKY …

          Reply
  2. Reply
  3. Scarily close to home.

    Reply
  4. Tipene

     /  March 15, 2019

    Yes I saw the video on Youtube before it got deleted, although other networks are still hosting it.

    It was reminiscent of the old “Doom” 3 D video games of old, except it was real life.

    [Deleted] (the shooter) clearly had some military training – there was even a strobe under the scope which is used to blind people to an oncoming soldier.

    Reading through [Deleted] 73 page manifesto indicates that this event was not only meticulously planned (even to the point of a capture strategy for the shooter being outlined), but that this has been simmering in the soul of Tarrant for some years.

    One thing that really irks me is the powers that be proffering various renditions of “I’m shocked that this could happen in NZ” as if NZ has some sort of magic dust fairy shield like the Starship Enterprise that somehow inures us from this sort of event.

    The western world has demonstrated over and over and over again the folly of a country importing any ideology that is in dramatic conflict to its own western culture – really, really REALLY bad shit happens.

    The only people to which this event will be a surprise are those who haven’t been paying attention.

    Reply
    • You are aware that REALLY bad shit happened here to people who thought they could live here safely after escaping from REALLY bad shit in other parts of the world?

      The worse thing New Zealand could do now is stop providing refuge to people because of extremely violent intimidation.

      Reply
      • Tipene

         /  March 15, 2019

        That’s the point though Pete – there is no longer any “refuge” -anywhere.

        Part of the natural consequence of embracing globalism (or as Muslim London mayor Sadiq Khan termed it “part and parcel of being in a big city):

        https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-terrorism-attacks-part-and-parcel-major-cities-new-york-bombing-a7322846.html

        Reply
        • There has never been completely safe refuge from terrorism. It is still relatively safe in New Zealand, and instead of trying to ramp up division and discrimination we should be looking at doing whatever we can to make New Zealand as safe and respectable as possible.

          We can ban all Australians from coming here, and neither should we.

          Reply
          • Tipene

             /  March 15, 2019

            “We should be looking at doing whatever we can to make New Zealand as safe and respectable as possible”.

            I agree – thus importing any ideology at odds with this cultural and civil society goal would not be a wise thing to do, yes?

            And yet…………………………here we are.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  March 15, 2019

              We may have to have ‘ preventative detention’ for people like you Tipene…its borderline hate speech….the edges of what is acceptable have changed irrevocably

            • I am fairly sure some of my ideology differs from yours. Which of us would you exclude?

            • Duker

               /  March 15, 2019

              You don’t have border line hate speech PG…far from it.
              It’s not differences of opinion on ideology but those who are broadly called white supremacists, but not limited to them of course

            • sorethumb

               /  March 15, 2019

              People in European countries are made to suppress their true feelings. When Jacinda says “this isn’t who we are” how would she know? Ipsos analysis showed that nativism was the main reason people voted for Trump Brexit is the same: whites in London etc.

          • Tipene

             /  March 15, 2019

            Duker: Preventative detention? For stating an evidence-based observation of history? Really? Hate speech? Really?

            Pete: Applicative preferences within an existing culture is not an ideology at odds with a particular culture.

            What I know is that Japan is most unlikely to have an event such as we have witnessed today, because the Japanese guard their culture against any ideology that could maximize the chance of such an event occurring.

            To answer your question though: Any ideology that threatened the fabric of civil society within my culture.

            Reply
            • Whose ideology is most different, someone who believes in a god, someone else who believes in a similar god, and someone else who doesn’t believes in a god?

            • Griff.

               /  March 15, 2019

              The Tokyo subway sarin attack (Subway Sarin Incident (地下鉄サリン事件 Chikatetsu Sarin Jiken) was an act of domestic terrorism perpetrated on 20 March 1995, in Tokyo, Japan, by members of the cult movement Aum Shinrikyo. In five coordinated attacks, the perpetrators released sarin on three lines of the Tokyo Metro (then part of the Tokyo subway) during rush hour, killing 12 people, severely injuring 50 (some of whom later died), and causing temporary vision problems for nearly 1,000 others….

          • Tipene

             /  March 15, 2019

            Pete: Wrong question in the context of the discussion.

            My answer was:

            “Any ideology that threatened the fabric of civil society within my culture”.

            Whether that ideology has a theism, anti-theism, or pan-theism, is of no material concern to me.

            Reply
            • Does your culture include making excuses for mass slaughterers? Does it include scoring points while hundreds of family members grieve?

            • sorethumb

               /  March 15, 2019

              Threat to identity is all it takes to turn a majority ethnic group against immigration. Only a minuscule percent would amount to killing Muslims. Anders Brevick targeted the Labour Party members.

          • Tipene

             /  March 15, 2019

            Griff: That was an attack from within a culture, not upon a culture, and not as a result of importing a culture which conflicted with an embedded culture.

            Reply
            • Griff.

               /  March 15, 2019

              Tipene
              This was an attack from a person who shares your racist ideology in othering peploe who worship the same god as yours but have a different prophet .

              As to the claim Nazi was a left wing ideology.
              Only those to the far right claim it is anything else to distance them self’s from the atrocity’s caused by the ultimate inevitable conclusion of their ideas.
              Any link between the Nazi and Marxism was extinguished rather empathically on the night of the long knives
              Nazism has always been identified as to the far right of the political spectrum. It is defined by nationalism, authoritarianism towards fascism, a leadership cult and extreme elevation of a so called pure culture above all else.
              Sound familiar? Many these of ideas are also found in Trumpism. Some of such ideas have been echoed in your comments today.
              .

              .

          • Tipene

             /  March 15, 2019

            Pete: My culture retains the right to discuss and share personal perspective, regardless of any other alternative perspective that may be held.

            This is not true of all cultures, which is why multiculturalism has such a poor track record of success.

            Points to be scored? I don’t keep score, so such an activity would be fruitless.

            I can’t comment on any of the families experience – I don’t know them, and I am not going to buy into the vicarious collective grief syndrome being piped all over the airwaves at present.

            It’s the emotional response that could do the most damage to our society in all of this, and I don’t welcome it one bit.

            Reply
            • phantom snowflake

               /  March 15, 2019

              What stands out for me on reading all your comments on this thread (15 thus far) is the complete absence of any sorrow about the terrible tragedy which has occurred. You’ve often trumpeted your “Christianity” in the past, but I’m struggling to detect any of the ‘Love of Christ’ amongst your words.

            • Tipene

               /  March 15, 2019

              Phantom: My emotional response to this event is none of your business, unless I choose to share it – and I haven’t chosen to share it.

              You are therefore left with making an assumption about my emotional response, which may or may not be accurate.

              You nominate the “Love of Christ” as a marker for practicing “Christianity”.

              You would agree then that Jesus would love the shooter, and much as he would love the shot?

            • phantom snowflake

               /  March 15, 2019

              I will be “making an assumption” that your question is disingenuous.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  March 15, 2019

      Blame the victims, why don’t you ?

      Of course people are shocked; we do not have a history of massacres here. The last one even remotely like this was Aramoana. 30 years ago ?

      In the US, there are many massacres of Americans BY Americans; what does this prove ?

      Reply
      • Tipene

         /  March 15, 2019

        I’m not at all shocked – I’m just surprised it has happened this early for us in the global decline cycle.

        Show me which victim I was blaming?

        I’m simply pointing out the geo-political law of natural consequence, as demonstrated by history.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  March 15, 2019

          “I’m simply pointing out the geo-political law of natural consequence, as demonstrated by history.” – Duh . Its victim blaming .
          Churches did the same things up till recently ..any natural disaster were Gods judgement on the sinners , ‘as demonstrated’ by history.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  March 15, 2019

            Yep History shows persecution of the jews… ipso facto natural consequences when it came to the Holocaust…. thats an appalling line to take ‘that is the way it is.’

            Reply
            • Tipene

               /  March 15, 2019

              You are arguing both straw-man and false cause fallacies.

              Please don’t attribute what you want to think I said, with what I actually said.

              You do (inadvertently) make an accurate connection however, between the anti-capitalist, far-left thinking of the shooters manifesto, and the goals of the national Socialist Party circa 1933-39.

            • Duker

               /  March 15, 2019

              Germany had 2 socialist party’s, the SPD and the Communist party. What you refer to was the far right wing Nazi party..it wasn’t socialist in any shape or form., Any more than the use of the national side of it connects to the same name in NZ.
              Expect the police to restrict your activities in the next months..maybe your online usage will change, maybe you won’t be able to book a plane ticket to anyware

            • Tipene

               /  March 15, 2019

              “We are socialists. We are the enemies of today’s capitalist system of exploitation … and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”

              Adolf Hitler (1927)

      • Tipene

         /  March 15, 2019

        It proves that disaffection is a worldwide condition.

        Reply
    • Tipene

       /  March 15, 2019

      Pete, One News has named him.

      Reply
      • I know, as has other media. I have made a decision to not name him here at this stage. It’s a little I can do to not provide him with publicity that he was seeking. A lot of other people are doing what they can to minimise his attempt to get publicity.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  March 15, 2019

          You said that this happened because these people were here (in so many words) and that ‘importing an ideology that’s in dramatic conflict’ etc, that it’s a natural consequence of embracing globalism….

          You MUST know that the words of Sadiq Khan were taken totally out of context by Trump and others, and that he did not mean it as ho hum, that’s what happens in the city.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  March 15, 2019

            Anyone who knows London’s history will know that terrorism has been part of life there for a long time. Have you heard of the IRA ?

            Reply
          • Tipene

             /  March 15, 2019

            This is what I said:

            “The western world has demonstrated over and over and over again the folly of a country importing any ideology that is in dramatic conflict to its own western culture – really, really REALLY bad shit happens”.

            An ideology is not a person, but a person can adopt an ideology.

            You are arguing both straw-man and false cause fallacies.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  March 15, 2019

              No, you are doing both, and trying to score points most inappropriately. This is a hideous tragedy, not an abstract theory. Please show some respect to the people who have been murdered and don’t use them to score points.

    • PartisanZ

       /  March 15, 2019

      @Tipene – “The western world has demonstrated over and over and over again the folly of a country importing any ideology that is in dramatic conflict to its own western culture …”

      No problem “invading countries with ideology in dramatic conflict to its [the West’s] own” eh?

      – really, really REALLY bad shit happens.

      Anyhow, there’s a hole somewhere …

      Reply
  5. Zedd

     /  March 15, 2019

    Hopefully this will make some idiots in Aotearoa/NZ, finally realise that ignorant, mindless anti-Islamic rhetoric has now manifest itself ! 😦

    “Salaam Aleh Qum” to those directly affected.

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  March 15, 2019

      btw: at the C-C protest in Dn today, I saw a woman wearing a (MrT) MAGA cap. They should be all banned & burnt !! (IMHO)

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  March 15, 2019

        I hope that the Islamophobes won’t shed crocodile tears when someone who holds their disgusting views goes a step further.

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  March 15, 2019

          The sanctimonious pricks make me wanna puke.
          Instead of owning the ultimate result of their ideology we have them on here blaming the fuckin victims.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  March 15, 2019

            It’s like blaming Jews for the Holocaust because they were there….

            NZ Muslims, with a few exceptions*, go about their business, do no harm to anyone…many of the Hamilton ones risked their own lives to act as UN translators for NZ.

            The stories that Corky constantly posts are either fabrications or distorted versions of real events, like the supposed wrecking a pub because Muslims don’t drink. In that case, they’d wreck every pub they saw. The video of this event showed that it was the pub’s patrons who were doing the damage, hurling furniture at peaceful marchers.

            There are untold Islamophobic websites whose inflammatory articles are either total fabrications or deliberate distortions. People like the gunman feed off these…with this result.
            * it would be astounding if there were no bad eggs among any group

            Reply
        • Tipene

           /  March 15, 2019

          I think the Gopro video that was live-streaming the event makes it pretty clear that the shooter wasn’t afraid of Muslims Kitty – quite the opposite.

          Why does alternative perspective get lumped into “(fill in the gap) phobia”

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  March 15, 2019

            You must know that homophobia and Islamophobia also have the meaning of mindless hatred now.

            You are nitpicking and I find your attitude revolting.

            Reply
            • Tipene

               /  March 15, 2019

              And I would defend to the death your right to consider my attitude to be revolting – see how it works?

            • Tipene

               /  March 15, 2019

              My point is just because someone disagrees with something, doesn’t mean they fear that with which they disagree. It’s simply a crude method to shut down debate, and to place the accused on the defensive. Cathy Newman tried it on with Jordan Peterson, and got owned for doing so.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  March 16, 2019

              This tragedy should not be used as an excuse for nitpicking and point scoring.

          • patu

             /  March 15, 2019

            I’ve seen the video too Tipene, and IMHO anyone who uses an assault rifle to indiscriminately mow down civilians is a complete coward. I’m picking the alleged offender would think twice before going to fight ISIL in the middle east, even with an AR-15 & banana mags.

            Reply
            • Tipene

               /  March 15, 2019

              The shooters manifesto details his military experience – if it’s true, it’s pretty extensive, and in accord with how the shooter acted.

            • Does the military teach people to be gutless murdering pricks?
              You have shown no compassion at all for the terrible thing that has been inflicted on many New Zealand residents and citizens. That’s not z culture I identify with.

            • patu

               /  March 15, 2019

              IF it’s true… I also read the manifesto on scribd, before it was removed. The guy is a nutter, and I suspect he was making up that stuff about his military experience.

            • Gezza

               /  March 15, 2019

              He’s a runt.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  March 15, 2019

              Just watched the arrest on tv. I thought the two cops displayed uncommon courage to take him down armed only with glocks. No match for a semi auto AR 15
              My daughters been doing the rounds of the mosques in west auckland reassuring and clearing them. All cops are glocked up

            • Tipene

               /  March 15, 2019

              Pete: I haven’t shared my emotional response to this event, so you would be guessing at best regarding what it was I was (or was not) feeling about this event.

              Emotion is the enemy of wisdom, and our leadership needs to be mindful of this truth.

            • The truth is there has been two horrible acts of mass murder today deserving of the utmost condemnation. Some are conspicuously avoiding giving any sign of sympathy.

            • Tipene

               /  March 15, 2019

              Pete: The truth is that I have had a call tonight from a member of the Muslim community requesting my professional assistance regarding the matters at hand in Christchurch.

              I will let you know how I get on with my sympathy.

              Have to go now.

          • sorethumb

             /  March 15, 2019

            oikiphobia

            Reply
        • Zedd

           /  March 15, 2019

          Lets just hope that some angry muslims (or others) dont have a ‘kneejerk reaction’ & take out retribution against ‘innocent non-muslims’ ? 😦

          Reply
  6. sorethumb

     /  March 15, 2019

    National lost the election over immigration. 4/6 think immigration from Asia will have a “positive impact”. Those “with most knowledge” are most positive.

    Diversity was Labour’s goal. Without consent and unwanted.

    Reply
  7. PartisanZ

     /  March 15, 2019

    Those who’s identity feels threatened by immigration must possess a very weak sense of identity.

    Weak … or pathetic … or feeble, woeful, sorry, poor, pitiful, lamentable, deplorable, miserable, wretched, contemptible, despicable, inadequate, meagre, paltry, insufficient, negligible, insubstantial, unsatisfactory … worthless

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  March 15, 2019

      Ethnocentrism is an evolutionary adaptation.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  March 15, 2019

        According to … Jordan Peterson … RIGHT?

        Derived from our Lobster Brains …?

        Reply
      • phantom snowflake

         /  March 15, 2019

        Ethnocentrism is an evolutionary adaptation.”
        In the context of today’s events, your comment could be taken as a justification for murdering those of different race/religion. Is that what you were intending to convey?

        Reply
        • sorethumb

           /  March 16, 2019

          Was in response to “Those who’s identity feels threatened by immigration must possess a very weak sense of identity.” Nothing to do with justifying terrorism.

          Reply
  8. Gezza

     /  March 15, 2019

    Experts tracking the rise of far-right terrorism say extremism has been growing in New Zealand and the warning signs of an attack have been apparent.

    “For a long time [New Zealand] has assumed that this extremism is not here, but it is,” said Massey University Centre for Defence and Security Studies counter-terrorism expert Dr John Battersby.

    “The internet is causing this, the echo chambers of the internet where people with extremist views can get together and listen to each other and encourage each other. We have been warning about this for some time.”
    More…
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111324932/christchurch-mosque-shootings-naive-to-think-this-wouldnt-happen-here

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  March 15, 2019

      The internet isn’t just fake news it is also about balance; it means not being spoon fed by your friendly left-wing journalist..

      Reply
  9. Gezza

     /  March 15, 2019

    1ewes reporting from Sommerville Street in Dunedin (I think) saying that it has been cordoned off by police and houses and bushes there are being searched – police haven’t said why.

    Reply
  10. Zedd

     /  March 15, 2019

    The next step (I guess)… The Cops will be ALL ‘armed up’ ? :/
    .. the thing most kiwis likely wont want to see ?? 😦

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  March 15, 2019

      They’ll have to honk on about “celebrate diversity” and clamp down on “hate” speech?

      Reply
  11. sorethumb

     /  March 15, 2019

    Helen Clark said New Zealanders are “deeply racist”. Jacinda Adern says “the whole country” and “that’s not who we are”. I think NZrs know the plot already. Won’t look so good “on the world stage”. Paul Spoonley will have some explaining to do at his conferences NZ was the exception?

    Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  March 15, 2019

      Sorethumb you are a disgrace to New Zealand, there is no way this looks good on the world stage.

      Reply
  12. Gezza

     /  March 15, 2019

    Mike Bush on now on 1ewes

    49 dead now, 41 at the Al Noor Mosque and 7 at the Linwood Mosque.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  March 15, 2019

      One has since died in hospital.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  March 15, 2019

        Bush is refusing to say if it was the same gunman at both mosques.
        He is also refusing to say if Tarrant is the person charged with murder.
        This is where the cops start to fall over as usual.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  March 15, 2019

          Bush’s update wasn’t much. Ardern was better.

          Reply
        • duperez

           /  March 15, 2019

          Cops start to fall over as usual? In any circumstances, let alone what happened today, you want the cops to be putting out every detail, all the minutiae? Why?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  March 15, 2019

            Because so much information was given out earlier and now Bush clams up completely over details that he’s created the expectation for. Those two things are obvious questions I can’t see any problem with him answering.

            Reply
  13. PDB

     /  March 15, 2019

    The sad thing is people are already trying to make political mileage out of this terrible event.

    To keep things in perspective the ‘far-right’ extremists in this country are by all accounts a very tiny group of fruit loops that hardly represent the political ‘right’ in this country. On the other side of the argument this shooting was undertaken by a spineless coward (or cowards) that has no excuse, especially from people saying that this is some sort of ‘inevitable’ happening because we have a growing Muslim population in this country. Some people need to grow the fuck up.

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  March 15, 2019

      I’m prepared to make political mileage out of it by saying that Queensland Senator Fraser Anning should never be allowed into New Zealand.

      ‘He went on to claim the real cause of the bloodshed that’s left at least 49 people dead is New Zealand’s immigration policy.’ Anning said, “The real cause of bloodshed on New Zealand streets today is the immigration program which allowed Muslim fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place.”

      Maybe the real cause of bloodshed on New Zealand streets today is an immigration program which allowed an Australian lunatic to migrate to New Zealand in the first place.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12213197

      Reply
  14. Alan Wilkinson

     /  March 15, 2019

    I feel tremendously sad this has happened and hope we can find ways to ensure nothing like it ever happens again in this country at least.

    In the meantime let’s look after each other.

    Reply
  15. Duker

     /  March 15, 2019

    I’m struck the maifesto , as reported, I’m not going to read 60 pages of nonsense, of the emphasis on European…this European that,. Doesn’t seem very Australian at all or even that of someone of Anglo-scots-irish heritage. A few other clues indicate a Balkan outlook or heritage or more specifically anti Muslim Serbo Croat. Maybe later narrow down to Catholic Croations ….probably not Dalmation. There could be a family background in something like The WW2 Ustashi Nazi type group..
    We’ll see if all that pans out?

    Reply
    • Mother

       /  March 15, 2019

      This is terribly upsetting.

      I can’t see how Tipene is victim blaming. I think it’s possible he weeps in secret. God knows, anything is possible within the airwaves of YourNZ.

      We do not know what our ideology is (and I think we never have, let alone owning an entrenched ideology) so how can we live the Kiwi way to such an extent that those who do not share ‘our values’ get assimilated into a culture of love where terrorism and outright hate can not penetrate?

      I had to come back even though Mr Rustle’s presence upset me into leaving. I can’t leave Pete’s notion of seeking the love of Christ unanswered. People seem too upset.

      There is an answer to our grief as we grieve with the families harmed. There is comfort. I think many individuals are aware of the answer.

      My prayers are with you and they count. That’s not boasting Maureen. Those whose only boast is salvation in Christ Jesus receive true comfort. Only a little faith in that direction is necessary. Every little prayer counts.

      At times like this we feel so helpless. Could you consider laying down a little of your pride and self righteousness? Love does not worry. Perhaps Aotearoa New Zealand will wake up as many individuals choose Christianity. If not, it is not only conspiracy nuts who perceive anarchy and full blown fear just around the corner.

      Since leaving YourNZ I wrote a few pages re my views on Church. I am aware that the words ‘church’ and ‘Christianity’ seem like god bothering to many people now, and little wonder. Would you consider posting what I wrote Pete? It might help.

      A fearful child belongs in the Father’s arms. We’re not alone. We are loved deeply.

      May the Lord Jesus comfort those who are dreadfully hurt and may all those who are helping in practical ways be given extra strength and wisdom. May God give our politicians pause while Kiwis work out what we want for our ideology going forward.

      If my message is distasteful to you, just leave it alone. This is not a time for personal online worrying re science nor religious squabbles. Science will never prove the existence of God until the moment of truth. Squabbles do not arise from the love of Christ.

      God is watching Aotearoa New Zealand intently. He yearns that we would choose salvation in Him. I really think it’s possible. If the end is not nigh, then why would any individual one of us not carefully consider Christianity?

      Extreme right wingers are messed up. It’s possible that they haven’t done this for publicity. I think it’s more like an evil martyrdom, made all the more insidious and confusing because it’s not attention for themselves they desire. They want to be heroes because they reject the Saviour. It’s similar to many youth suicides – ‘if I take myself away, perhaps they will work harder to make the world better.’ If moderate people continue to have no answers in love, this will get worse both from the extreme right and the extreme left. It will become each man for himself. Paradoxes are always the most spot on. Christianity is for the individual (aka ‘each man for himself’)! Just a little faith in Jesus is all that’s needed. Try Him. He’s strong. Self sacrifice and worry is meaningless (and a hindrance to good action) without faith in Jesus the Victor.

      I also think it’s possible that if these perpetrators are western radicals, the Muslims could embarrass whatever Christianity we have here by reacting with love. Whatever. It’s your choice as individuals. If only all our children were having a classical education, majoring in critical thought.

      Reply
    • Mother

       /  March 15, 2019

      This is terribly upsetting.

      I can’t see how Tipene is victim blaming. I think it’s possible he weeps in secret. God knows, anything is possible within the airwaves of YourNZ.

      We do not know what our ideology is (and I think we never have, let alone owning an entrenched ideology) so how can we live the Kiwi way to such an extent that those who do not share ‘our values’ get assimilated into a culture of love where terrorism and outright hate can not penetrate?

      I had to come back even though Mr Rustle’s presence upset me into leaving. I can’t leave Pete’s notion of seeking the love of Christ unanswered. People seem too upset.

      There is an answer to our grief as we grieve with the families harmed. There is comfort. I think many individuals are aware of the answer.

      My prayers are with you and they count. That’s not boasting Maureen. Those whose only boast is salvation in Christ Jesus receive true comfort. Only a little faith in that direction is necessary. Every little prayer counts.

      At times like this we feel so helpless. Could you consider laying down a little of your pride and self righteousness? Love does not worry. Perhaps Aotearoa New Zealand will wake up as many individuals choose Christianity. If not, it is not only conspiracy nuts who perceive anarchy and full blown fear just around the corner.

      Since leaving YourNZ I wrote a few pages re my views on Church. I am aware that the words ‘church’ and ‘Christianity’ seem like god bothering to many people now, and little wonder. Would you consider posting what I wrote Pete? It might help.

      A fearful child belongs in the Father’s arms. We’re not alone. We are loved deeply.

      May the Lord Jesus comfort those who are dreadfully hurt and may all those who are helping in practical ways be given extra strength and wisdom. May God give our politicians pause while Kiwis work out what we want for our ideology going forward.

      If my message is distasteful to you, just leave it alone. This is not a time for personal online worrying re science nor religious squabbles. Science will never prove the existence of God until the moment of truth. Squabbles do not arise from the love of Christ.

      God is watching Aotearoa New Zealand intently. He yearns that we would choose salvation in Him. I really think it’s possible. If the end is not nigh, then why would any individual one of us not carefully consider Christianity?

      Extreme right wingers are messed up. It’s possible that they haven’t done this for publicity. I think it’s more like an evil martyrdom, made all the more insidious and confusing because it’s not attention for themselves they desire. They want to be heroes because they reject the Saviour. It’s similar to many youth suicides – ‘if I take myself away, perhaps they will work harder to make the world better.’ If moderate people continue to have no answers in love, this will get worse both from the extreme right and the extreme left. It will become each man for himself. Paradoxes are always the most spot on. Christianity is for the individual (aka ‘each man for himself’)! Just a little faith in Jesus is all that’s needed. Try Him. He’s strong. Self sacrifice and worry is meaningless (and a hindrance to good action) without faith in Jesus the Victor.

      I also think it’s possible that if these perpetrators are western radicals, the Muslims could embarrass whatever Christianity we have here by reacting with love. Whatever. It’s your choice as individuals. If only all our children were having a classical education, majoring in critical thought.

      Reply
  16. wooden goat

     /  March 15, 2019

    @Zedd – ” ignorant, mindless anti-Islamic rhetoric… ”

    Would that be “rhetoric” like pointing out the below facts?
    Facts such as the followers of a certain ideology starting with “I” have killed an estimated 270 million people (and counting) in the last 1400 years?
    Source – https://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/

    That the Quran contains over 500 verses that are hateful and intolerant of non-Muslims – they can be read here –
    http://dttj.blogspot.com/2010/08/intolerance-toward-non-muslims-in-quran.html

    – and over 100 verses calling on Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims – read them here –
    https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

    These are *facts*. They are especially uncomfortable to consider in the light of today’s awful shootings but they are facts nonetheless.

    Facts are *never* ignorant. Uncomfortable, sure.
    *Opinions* can be ignorant but the above statements are not opinions.

    The worst thing that the government could do would be to ban people mentioning such facts.
    Criticism of Christianity, Judaism, other religions is accepted. So should be criticism of the “I-word” – it is a vital “societal safety valve” and is a heck of a lot better than what we have seen today.

    Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  March 16, 2019

      Your “vital societal safety valve” is better known as stochastic terrorism – look it up.

      Reply

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