White supremacists, racism and anti-immigration rhetoric

There’s a number of things that need to be talked about more in the wake of the Christchurch terror attacks, like white supremacists (including cultural and religious supremacists), racism and anti immigration rhetoric and immigrant bashing.

Richard MacManus (Newsroom):  We didn’t watch white supremacists closely enough

After the tragedy in Christchurch last Friday, serious questions are being asked of the world’s largest social media companies.

Why was the killer able to live stream this appalling act on Facebook for 17 minutes? Why couldn’t YouTube and Twitter prevent copies of the video from being propagated on their global networks? Why did Reddit have a forum named ‘watchpeopledie’ (another place where this horrendous video was posted) running on its platform for seven whole years?

To answer these questions, we need to look at the content moderation processes of Facebook, Google and others, plus examine the effectiveness of using algorithms to help police content.

The biggest issue though is that neither human nor AI moderation is much help in the case of live streams. The only viable solution, it seems to me, is to prevent people like Friday’s terrorist from live streaming in the first place.

One suspects the tech companies will need to work closely with government intelligence agencies to identify, monitor and proactively shut down people who use social media to distribute hate content.

Before Friday, the response to that would’ve been just two words: “free speech.” But we’re no longer talking about the trivial matter of two right-wing provocateurs being prevented from speaking in New Zealand. We’re now talking about preventing extreme terrorist violence in our country. I think our former Prime Minister Helen Clark said it best, in regards to free speech:

“We all support free speech, but when that spills over into hate speech and propagation of violence, it has gone far too far. Such content is not tolerated on traditional media; why should it be on #socialmedia?”

Why indeed. So let’s fix this, by advocating for meaningful change at companies like Facebook, Google, Twitter and Reddit in how they deal with hate speech.

And local websites – including the biggest political blogs, Kiwiblog and Whale Oil.

Thomas Coughlan (Newsroom):  Time to recall MPs’ anti-migrant rhetoric

Hansard, the record of parliamentary speeches, has 139 mentions of the word “Muslim”, 317 of the word “Islam”, and 238 mentions of the word “Islamic” in its searchable record, which dates back to 2003.

In that same time, only one politician — Aaron “do you know I am?” Gilmore, as fate would have it — has mentioned “white supremacy”, and none have spoken about “white nationalism”.

Other religions are mentioned too — the word “Christian” is mentioned 520 times. But look a little closer, and a distinct difference emerges. While mentions of the word “Christian” tend to be followed by words like “Social Services” more than half of the 238 times, the word “Islam” is mentioned it is followed by the word “State”.

New Zealand is not immune from the global trend of conflating Islam and its nearly two billion adherents with terrorism.

Dr Mohamed Alansari of the University of Auckland noted that when people speak about Islam “it comes with a hint of judgment or a hint of a stereotype and it comes from a place of fear rather than a place of trying to understand”.

The apparent threat of Islam is often conflated with other issues, including security and migration.

Amongst New Zealand politicians Winston Peters stands out on this.

Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has a longer history than most when it comes to linking concerns about terrorism to Muslims.

In a 2005 speech titled The End Of Toleranceand delivered in the wake of the London bombings, Peters singled out Muslim migrants for special attention.

He spoke about the “political correctness” in other parties:

“They say – ah yes – but New Zealand has always been a nation of immigrants. They miss a crucial point. New Zealand has never been a nation of Islamic immigrants…”

Peters also suggested that moderate Muslims were operating “hand in glove” with extremists.

His exact words are worth quoting in full:

“This two-faced approach is how radical Islam works – present the acceptable face to one audience and the militant face to another.

“In New Zealand the Muslim community have been quick to show us their more moderate face, but as some media reports have shown, there is a militant underbelly here as well.

“Underneath it all the agenda is to promote fundamentalist Islam.

“Indeed these groups are like the mythical Hydra – a serpent underbelly with multiple heads capable of striking at any time and in any direction.”

He went on to note that “in many parts of the world the Christian faith is under direct threat from radical Islam,” and said that he had sent a letter to all leaders of Islamic groups in New Zealand, calling them to name any “radicals, troublemakers and potential dangers to our society”.

Dame Anne Salmond (NZ Herald): Racist underbelly seethes just beneath surface

After this terrible tragedy, let’s be honest, for once. White supremacy is a part of us, a dark power in the land. In its soft version, it looks bland and reasonable.

The doctrine of white superiority is based on arrogance, and ignorance. Since other cultures, languages and religions are worthless, there’s no need to learn about them. The “others” are dehumanised, making their misery and suffering unreal.

In the present, let’s face it, online, on talkback, in taxis and around dinner tables, the doctrine of white superiority is still alive and well in New Zealand. It’s absolutely right that our Prime Minister should take a stand for kindness and generosity, aroha and manaakitanga in the relations among different groups in our country.

But let’s not pretend there’s not a dark underbelly in New Zealand society.

And let’s not pretend that it doesn’t happen right here.

It’s very challenging encouraging open discussion and debate on important issues while trying to moderate white supremicism and racism and religious attacks.

But these are things we should be talking about – and asking ourselves serious questions about.

And others are also asking serious questions.

 

83 Comments

  1. I think it’s only a sub-set of ‘right wing’, and it’s not all and only right wing.

  2. High Flying Duck

     /  March 19, 2019

    I just read the Anne Salmond piece in full. An exceptionally well articulated article. It didn’t try to solve anything, but it certainly makes you think about attitudes and the insidiousness that springs from the automatic assumption that the “European way” is superior.

    • PDB

       /  March 19, 2019

      It was a poor reactionary piece that insinuated that we need to stamp out anybody who might dare to question say Te Reo being mandatory in schools, or how the Treaty has been reinterpreted in more modern times and also suggests that NZ Europeans are pretty much all in the same white supremist boat no doubt because they are descended from racists. These awful NZ Europeans are spreading this hate to terrorise Pacific Islanders, Asians etc. She is essentially using this unfortunate event that was undertaken by a lone Aussie gunman to push her politically motivated & generalistic views about NZ Europeans. For good measure she promotes the myth that before European settlement Maori were only about “ideas of justice and kindness, equality and mutual respect”.

      Hate crime comes in many forms. The worst abuse I’ve ever seen of Asians has come from Maori/ Pacific Islanders (on all those occasions in food outlets the Asian people worked in/owned), one of our most high profile politicians (Winston Peters – a Maori) is easily our most ‘racist’ politician, & this from a govt the Dame seems to think is led by a PM that makes a “stand for kindness and generosity”. Does this mean all Maori hate Asians & are racist? No – exactly my point.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  March 19, 2019

        I thought that the article was offensive, implying that NZ is a nation of people who believe in white superiority. It will antagonise many people with its guilty until proved innocent tone; she is cashing in on the massacre to push her own barrow.

        I was talking to a man at a bus stop, and he was really mocking both Indians and Chinese. It wasn’t malicious, but it was crass and mindless.He was a good-natured man apart from that…he was Maori. That sort of racism is hard to combat, like the racism of Irish jokes.

      • duperez

         /  March 19, 2019

        Maybe the depth of the ‘problem’ is shown by you finding her piece “insinuated that we need to stamp out anybody who might dare to question say Te Reo being mandatory in schools.”
        According to you she promotes the myth that before European settlement Maori were only about “ideas of justice and kindness, equality and mutual respect”. She said they were ‘only’ about those things and promoted those notions?

        Her piece might be reactionary according to some, it may be a poor reactionary piece to you. If it were a contest for being reactionary your response provides good opposition.

  3. artcroft

     /  March 19, 2019

    “In the present, let’s face it, online, on talkback, in taxis and around dinner tables, the doctrine of white superiority is still alive and well in New Zealand.”

    Alarmist nonsense. If she knows all this why did she not raise the alarm about white supremacy before the attack. If she only realised it after the event then she’s allowing her imagination to run wild (which is exciting, that’s why the simple minded do it). If she has evidence to support her statements please provide it.

    She might also exercise greater discernment regarding the dinner parties parties she attends (or she is mindlessly conflating discussions about house prices with white supremacy).

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  March 19, 2019

      Salmond’s piece seemed a series of allegations without evidence.

      If she thinks “white culture” is not superior how does she explain immigration flows?

      • artcroft

         /  March 19, 2019

        Exactly.

      • Corky

         /  March 19, 2019

        Bingo. I have stated numerous times Western culture is superior. There can be no argument. It’s a fact…in my opinion.

        I have also stated that description only applies in the PRESENT. Previously I have also said the Indo-Chinese cultures in the past were tackling science and the humanities while our ancestors by comparison were swinging in the trees.

        Dame Salmond is twisting reality to fit her ideology.

      • High Flying Duck

         /  March 19, 2019

        I had that initial reaction too, but the article was more nuanced than that. It was calling out the implicit assumption many people have that the European way is the best, therefore we can completely disregard other cultures and what they have to offer.
        The assumption that immigrants must completely adopt our self evidently superior way without consideration as to how elements of their cultures can be integrated or add to what exists that is the problem.
        It is a fraught area in many ways. People come here for what we have, and the way we live. But that does not mean culture or norms are set in stone – there perhaps needs to be more acceptance of change and difference, while retaining the knowledge that sometimes there is inherent incompatibility that cannot be overcome.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  March 19, 2019

          This is neither nuanced nor true of the vast majority of white New Zealanders:
          The doctrine of white superiority is based on arrogance, and ignorance. Since other cultures, languages and religions are worthless, there’s no need to learn about them. The “others” are dehumanised, making their misery and suffering unreal.

          • High Flying Duck

             /  March 19, 2019

            I disagree. There is an inherent “knowledge” among many, and probably most, white people that the western / UK culture is superior in almost every way to other cultures. And with that comes a natural tendency to dismiss the culture of others.
            It isn’t necessarily overt or malicious, but it just is. And the result of that is a diminishment of both native Maori and immigrant cultures as being “less than”.
            This can flow through to the treatment of people and the acceptance of differences.
            It is a natural tendency and probably one that is shared in other places and by other races, as the dominant culture will naturally tend to a feeling of superiority.
            Having an awareness of it and taking the time to try to look past inbuilt preconceptions is part of the process of becoming more tolerant overall.
            While it may have used some inflammatory language I think the article raised some valid points.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  March 19, 2019

              The language in the quote I cited is stupidly wrong, not just inflammatory. Salmond seems to have become a bitter, twisted and rather nasty old lady.

      • Corky

         /  March 19, 2019

        Fair points, High Flyer. The problem is Westerners are being indoctrinated into a belief their culture is sub standard and a curse on humanity. If people like me stand up for Western culture we are called alt-right, as I was yesterday. There is no way to defend against that because we are lumped in with nut jobs who believe Western culture is the only way( as you allude to) and we need to purify are racial DNA . ( good like with that).

        If Liberals can’t or won’t stop their incessant assault on Western culture, then the outcome will become precarious. Liberals by default will increasingly become recruiters for the far right. And that unfortunately is something liberals don’t mind doing. It makes me question how much they really care for those they claim to support.

        • Griff.

           /  March 19, 2019

          If Liberals can’t or won’t stop their incessant assault on Western culture,

          Liberalism is western culture.
          It is what defines it .
          Feel free to fuck off to place without liberal ideals. Saudi Arabia might be more your kind of conservative nirvana .

          Its not so much Corky is an idiot that is a given.
          It is that others uptick such brain numbingly stupid shite ..

          • Corky.

             /  March 19, 2019

            The perennial rants of a halfwit. Still, I suppose Griff makes the most of his meagre intellectual faculties. Add that to the emotional mush he and his ilk are spouting at the moment, and we unfortunately get the above.

            Take a few days off, Griff.

            • Griff.

               /  March 19, 2019

              Lick lick
              I live in a Liberal democracy .
              Corky lives in lala land.

            • Griff.

               /  March 19, 2019

              By the way Corks.
              I told you weeks ago your ranting right wing nutter shite was the biggest terrorist threat we face in the west.
              You could not even admit the facts instead wanted to rant on about some beheading in conservative Saudi Arabia .
              Your politics is the toxic fringe of the far right .
              Own it and fuck off .

              Oh and Trev you own me an apology I was right ………….

            • Corky

               /  March 19, 2019

              Seems everyone on this thread can post without abuse, except you, Griff.

              Apparently, it should be the reverse given I’m a supposed to be a toxic alt-right. I should be abusing you.

              Matthew 7:16
              ”Ye shall know them by their fruits. ”

              Your fruit is rotten, Griff. That’s why you are a troll.

              Take some time out. Think about being a constructive poster.

      • Blazer

         /  March 19, 2019

        Immigration flows to where’ the grass is greener’.Always has.

        Why is it ‘greener’ in the West….not hard to see …why at all.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  March 19, 2019

      Yes, I wondered what sort of parties she goes to and what sort of taxidrivers she knows.

      Allegations without evidence is good.

      Griff, it’s true that ‘by their fruits ye shall know them.’ Corky’s fruits are either fake or hollow and frequently rotted on the vine. But as he has one eye, he sees them as faultless.

    • The Consultant

       /  March 19, 2019

      I’ve been told my entire life that racism exists in New Zealand. It was a mantra throughout high school, university and every form of media there is in NZ. A constant drumbeat.

      • MaureenW

         /  March 19, 2019

        Racism will always exist – the goalposts of what defines “racism” continually change to ensure it does.
        Once it was overt , now it seems so be anything someone decides. I’m not aware of any scale that would deem a particular behaviour or gesture as 100% not racist.

        • Mother

           /  March 19, 2019

          Yes, and decisions to be easily offended causes either secret festering or full blown hatred. Censorship should be left in the public domain.

    • High Flying Duck

       /  March 19, 2019

      Yes, odd comment. People say “I’m not racist” all the time, but we are constantly reminded of our racism as a nation.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  March 19, 2019

        There is racism in all races. But disliking one person or even a few people who happen to be a different race doesn’t make the person a racist. Racism is when an entire race is mindlessly disliked, or when someone is disliked because they are of that race. It’s not racist that many people dislike a local bus driver; it’s because she’s the sort of person who would tell the father of a laughing baby to stop the baby laughing or the parents and baby would be put off the bus (the other passengers would not have let this happen) and is generally a charmless wonder. There are two Maori drivers who are not liked and others whom everyone likes very much; ditto Pakeha drivers.

        • High Flying Duck

           /  March 19, 2019

          I should clarify, my comment wasn’t to say we are racist as a nation. We are just constantly told or reminded that we are.

  4. Gezza

     /  March 19, 2019

    This video interview given prominence on AlJazeera tv yesterday

    The mass shootings at the two mosques in New Zealand have shocked the country, but some people point out that the warning signs for this atrocity were everywhere.

    Susan Devoy, the former race relations commissioner of New Zealand, joins Al Jazeera from Melbourne in Australia to discuss this.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/03/nz-mosque-attacks-i-wake-up-call-country-190318090215301.html

    • PDB

       /  March 19, 2019

      Probably why it took an Australian, who had turned into a white supremist whilst travelling overseas to then use this country for his lone-wolf attack as we have no history of such atrocities/ always been seen as welcoming to immigrants thus it would make far bigger world headlines – because this country is full of white supremacists…righto.

    • Gezza

       /  March 19, 2019

      An interesting assessment of Dame Susan Devoy’s tenure as Race Relations Commissioner by Jarrod Gilbert, in the New Zealand Herald

      Jarrod Gilbert: Race role requires special talents – Dame Susan Devoy didn’t have them
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12069905

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  March 19, 2019

        I didn’t find it very interesting. Just a hit piece, not perceptive. Didn’t even manage to identify the special talents it says Devoy didn’t have.

        • Gezza

           /  March 19, 2019

          Fair enuf. Don’t read it.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  March 19, 2019

            You should have told me that before I did.

            • Gezza

               /  March 19, 2019

              You didn’t give me time. Just barged on in and read it. Typical. 😉

        • Blazer

           /  March 19, 2019

          Devoy was a very talented squash player.Thats ALL.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  March 19, 2019

            Yep, that’s the short version.

  5. The Consultant

     /  March 19, 2019

    Funny how people project their racism on to others. In this case Salmond sees Western Culture – which has long been a mix of different ethnic groups and races – as “White” culture.

    So perhaps Salmond would like to explain why so many Japanese, Chinese and other Asians adopted wearing “Western” suits and ties and so many countries have adopted Western systems of government, economics and social welfare?

    I don’t think it’s because any of those peoples wanted to be “White”. They just observed that the most successful nations had those systems. That they happened to be mainly European is simply because they slowly and incrementally got them first.

    And lets face it: does Salmond herself think that Sharia Law societies are equal to Western societies? There have been a handful of Westerners who did think that and went to such places to live, but they’re a tiny miniority, and I’d Salmond and other virtue signallers are not among them.

    • High Flying Duck

       /  March 19, 2019

      As I said above, I think Salmond was commenting on the dismissing and disparagement of other cultures more than on any failings of western culture.

    • Norm Grey

       /  March 19, 2019

      Salmond’s opinions and postulations are expected to be believed and revered by we sad little “ignorants” because she knows everything and “everything” is true and accurate because she said it, and she’s a “Dame”!

  6. Finbaar Rustle

     /  March 19, 2019

    All my life we have been told there is no racism in New Zealand.
    We were told that any non white person was inferior.
    We were told any non English language is inferior.
    We have been told that any non English culture is inferior and dangerous.
    We were told any non Christian religion is inferior and dangerous.
    All wars fought by white English people were just.
    All the opponents of White English were bad.
    But then we were told there is no violence against women all our lives also.
    We were told homosexuality does not exist.
    We were told smoking is not a health hazard.
    We are told there are jobs out there if you just look.
    We are also told there is no climate change.
    Any one who dared challenge these myths have been persecuted.
    The angry white right wing man who butchered 50 Kiwis
    on Friday was a total fanatic for these beliefs.

    • FarmerPete

       /  March 19, 2019

      Every culture has these belief systems.It is naive to think otherwise.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  March 19, 2019

      Since you evidently believe everything you are told, no wonder you’ve gone nuts, Finbaar.

      • Finbaar Rustle

         /  March 19, 2019

        No answer again. Clearly you are defeated.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  March 19, 2019

          You’ve been taking lessons from the Black Knight, Finbaar:

  7. unitedtribes2

     /  March 19, 2019

    I don’t think that racism is a problem in NZ. It was in the past but couldn’t be accused of that now. Has everyone forgotten that this attacher was not a New Zealander.

    • Gezza

       /  March 19, 2019

      We’ve definitely got it. There’s anti-immigrant racism, anti-Pakeha racism, anti-Maori racism, anti-Muslim culture racism, anti-Semitic racism. But it’s condemned by & not advocated by far the majority of New Zealanders.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  March 19, 2019

        I was referred to as ‘that Jewess’ in London by churchgoers. It was not meant to be either a statement of fact or a compliment. One must wonder what sort of people use saying that someone is Jewish or anything else as an insult.

      • sorethumb

         /  March 19, 2019

        If a progressive government in Japan asked it’s peoples whether they want to allow “diversity” and they said “no, we like things as they are would you call that racist. If so why?

        • sorethumb

           /  March 19, 2019

          My answer is (partly) this:

          the prevailing approach to the study of ethnocentrism, ingroup bias, and prejudice presumes that ingroup love and outgroup hate are reciprocally related. Findings from both cross-cultural research and laboratory experiments support the alternative view that ingroup identification is independent of negative attitudes toward outgoups and that much ingroup bias and intergroup discrimination is motivated by preferential treatment of ingroup members rather than direct hostility toward outgroup members.

          http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.197.4614&rep=rep1&type=pdf

        • Gezza

           /  March 19, 2019

          No, I wouldn’t. There is no requirement that a country’s people can’t decide their own immigration policy and cultural adaptation expectations. There are many Middle Eastern Muslim countries which do precisely that, if not in law then in practice. I’d never immigrate to a Middle Eastern country, nor to Japan.

          • sorethumb

             /  March 20, 2019

            But we had that decision made for us and now are expected to maintain nihilism re our own identity and “celebrate diversity”

            • I don’t think anyone is expecting anyone else to “celebrate diversity”.

              What is hoped is that there will be more tolerance for different cultures, nationalities and religious beliefs – all of which we have many here in New Zealand.

              Some of this we share, as we all have in the past, but we should also be able to retain our individuality.

  8. FarmerPete

     /  March 19, 2019

    Face it, everyone is “racist” to some degree. Every person has there own preference settings about everything but the problems arise when some who are at the more extreme ends of the continuum act in a way that is totally outside the general norm. And this happens at both ends of the spectrum, not just the right.
    I have refrained from commenting on Christchurch because it was just too raw to make sense of early in the piece. It is profoundly disturbing to the degree that the outrage is almost incapable of being described in words. It was an atrocity against the victims and the nation. I am no fan of Ardern, but she has done well on this.
    What is also sickening are the other crazies who come out of the woodwork wanting to use it for their own agendas. Blame has been liberally apportioned before we all know the whole story. Personally, I felt we should have just been left in our somber reflection for a while rather than being inundated with accusations of blame from the social media hordes. Curtailing free speech wont help fight extremism – it will make it worse by the very act of suppression.
    NZ was already in the midst of an important public discussion about free speech, which after all is the cornerstone of our system of government. Now we should be cautious about being pushed into knee jerk responses which would curtail other peoples rights. And, no, just before anyone asks, I haven’t read the manifesto and I don’t plan too. I wouldn’t read or publish sick ‘shit’ like that. deciding what is outside the ‘pail’ and what is not is something that needs significant public debate over a long period, and not something that should be decided on a ‘panicked’ basis.

    • Mother

       /  March 19, 2019

      The people I know who are most accepting of other cultures are believers in Christ.

      I have no racist attitude.

      Racism has nothing to do with individuals’ freedom of religion. Kiwis could lose freedom of religion if people continue to confuse the two issues. Jacinda is leading this confusion.

      • FarmerPete

         /  March 19, 2019

        That may be, but in my experience some believers in Christ are also the biggest bigots.

        • Mother

           /  March 19, 2019

          Sadly that’s my experience too. That’s a part of the problem as to why we are in this place of mourning now.

          Bigotry is alive and well amidst both the conservative Christians and the unthinking liberal Christians, I am well aware.

          Being aware of the difficulties doesn’t give me reason to give up on Jesus though.

          This time of mourning is showing up our acute confusion about Christianity.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  March 19, 2019

      I agree that everybody has a natural preference for similar people. The problem arises when you develop an intolerance to people who are different. Expecting them to conform to your norm rather than accepting there are a lot of norms.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  March 19, 2019

      Farmer; as the child of Ulster parents, I just knew that I would never marry a Mick (a Catholic) Not if I wanted him to be accepted by the family.

      My ex-partner happened to have two names usually associated with Catholics, which caused some suspicion, although his surname was a common English one like Smith or Brown. He looked like a Catholic, which didn’t help, but my mother did accept that he wasn’t one.

      Saying that someone looked like a Mick was not a compliment (my uncle by marriage did look like one; and his name was an obvious giveaway that the family had converted at some time)

      ‘He looks like a real Mick.’ was an insult*. One of my grandmother’s maids told my mother that she was always taught that you could tell a Prod ‘by the dirty black look of him’ and Protestants were told the same about the Micks.

      This isn’t racism exactly, but it’s the same principle.

      * and a common, almost casual remark; I heard it many times

      • FarmerPete

         /  March 19, 2019

        When I went to school as a young boy we ran the gauntlet in the mornings of the protestant kids shouting ‘Catholic dogs stink like frogs and don’t eat meat on Friday’. We were jostled and had our caps knocked off our heads etc. It was daunting but I also witnessed the local monsenior use the pulpit to bash the newly established mormon church, so it cuts all ways. It made me both tougher and more appreciative of how it feels to be on the receiving end.
        I also recall the NZ Truth running a front page article about a catholic plot to outbreed protestants. You couldn’t get away with that these days!

      • FarmerPete

         /  March 19, 2019

        I should also add that my grandmother who I loved dearly was born in NZ but remained very much an Irish catholic so we often heard her refer to ‘those protestant divils’. She was a saint in many ways but not enlightened in accepting other religions.
        It took a few generations for this world view to bleed out of our family, and this is what worries me about groups of immigrants who do not assimilate and who do not come accepting the values of the broader society.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  March 19, 2019

          My mother’s first reaction to hearing that I was marrying an Eastern Orthodox was ‘Well, at least he’s not a Catholic.’ I saw no point in saying that he had been one (converted from Anglicanism) before he became Orthodox. She also said that she supposed he couldn’t help it when she heard that he was English.

          Did your grandmother reckon that she could tell a Protestant by the dirty black look of them (as Ulster Prods say of ‘Mickey Doolans ?’

          I couldn’t make someone here see why the 12th parades go via the Catholic areas with predictable results. There’d be little point in not maddening the Taigs on the 12th,

          Irish people here don’t chuck molotov cocktails through each other’s windows or kneecap anyone who goes out with someone of the wrong religion. As long as people don’t act upon their views, it’s all right. We celebrated the 12th and sang songs about it, and some of these are not ones that I’d repeat here.

          • FarmerPete

             /  March 19, 2019

            I never did hear her say she could identify ‘prodies’ by their looks. I heard lots of other gems though, including telling one of my school friends that he had a ‘touch of the tar brush in him’. Having said that she was a generous and hard working woman.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  March 19, 2019

              I have never heard anyone actually SAY that; I have read it. How embarrassing.

              I wonder if she believed that she could tell Prods/Proddies just by looking at them.

  9. PDB

     /  March 19, 2019

    As I point out above this Aussie scumbag deliberately chose NZ because we have very few far-right extremists, are mostly welcoming to immigrants (& have never had any issues with extremists from that particular group), and overall have a far better modern race-relation history than most nations. He wanted to point out that a nation even as good as ours was not immune from such acts of terrorism & therefore shock the world & make a big international media splash.

    For people to then turn around and say NZ has this big issue with white supremacism is disingenuous. In most cases the people saying such things are using this event to paint anybody who disagrees with such topics as open immigration, modern interpretations of the Treaty, extent of Te Reo in schools, lack of free speech for those with right-wing (not extreme) views etc as racist & evil.

  10. Zedd

     /  March 19, 2019

    I saw on the midday news that a young kiwi is in custody.. charged with posting ‘Alt-Right’ Hate-speech, videos & ranting in favour of the shootings.

    hint hint.. maybe some folks in here should think ?? (NNM)

    • MaureenW

       /  March 19, 2019

      That’s a particularly stupid thing to say – some folk, hint hint . You should put out names, the some folk probably want to know who they are.

    • PDB

       /  March 19, 2019

      I’ve seen no one posting on here “in favour of the shootings” – if that was the case PG would’ve marched them quick-smart.

      All you continue to prove with your postings is what an idiot you are.

      • Corky

         /  March 19, 2019

        Zedd is probably talking about me. Apparently some nuts on this blog think I have blood on my hands.

    • Zedd

       /  March 19, 2019

      YAWNING…. :/

      • MaureenW

         /  March 19, 2019

        You would be – not enough oxygen – it shows in what you write.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  March 19, 2019

          When one considers the offensive things that Corky has said about Muslims, the blatant lies that he has repeated and invented about them and the insulting names that he has called them, it’s not surprising that some people think that.

  11. Alan Wilkinson

     /  March 19, 2019

    We all use cues of all kinds to guide our interactions with others. Some are stereotypes received from others, some are previous experiences and some are reading expressions, tones, emotions and attitudes. Race will always be a factor but it should never be the only factor.

  12. sorethumb

     /  March 19, 2019

  13. sorethumb

     /  March 19, 2019

    I’d love to know the truth about white supremacists in NZ and Christchurch. Paul Spoonley tries to make a case that they (in some way) had a part in this shooting. He struggles when Corin Dann presses him on that particular point
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/full-interview-professor-paul-spoonley-explains-white-supremist-situation-in-new-zealand?variant=tb_v_2

  14. harryk

     /  March 19, 2019

    Hi, first time commenter. From Oz, reading for reaction to your Christchurch outrage.

    Last month the racist, terrorist OPM in Papua massacred 19 Indonesian civilian workers in Nduga. There are people in NZ including politicians and ‘activists’ who support and fund the OPM. Some journalists in your mainstream media also run the terrorists’ propaganda. I counted over 40 NZ pollies on this list – https://www.ipwp.org/parliamentarians

    The OPM also hosts social media sites in NZ where violent propaganda images are posted and circulated with the sole aim of ‘Othering’ Indonesians. Hate speech comments abound. I would hope now that Ardern instructs NZ Pol and SIS to investigate and lay charges against Kiwis who support and fund terrorism in it’s entirety, and to ban the sites they use to distribute violent propaganda. Rightwing, leftwing or just plain racist, it’s all terrorism. A Parliamentary motion condemning the terrorist massacre in Nduga would have been the decent thing to do.

    • Blazer

       /  March 19, 2019

      try Australias record in East Timor and their support for Indionesia’s mass murder there.

      • harryk

         /  March 19, 2019

        Thanks to the mod for posting my comment.

        Blazer. Whatabboutery. I worked with the UN in Timor, hate violence and the criminal, cowardly version that seeks to gain political advantage from murdering civilians. I didn’t expect many readers to warmly embrace my comment calling out the hypocrisy in both our nations. But my point is specifically about the terrorist massacre of 19 civilians last month in Nduga, the ongoing campaign to use it for political advantage, and the individuals in NZ who support this sort of stuff. Your political culture encourages terrorism in other peoples’ countries. This is your [NZ] blog of course, and I’m just a wayfaring stranger, but whatabboutery isn’t a considered response in any serious debate.

        • Blazer

           /  March 19, 2019

          ‘whatabboutery isn’t a considered response in any serious debate.’

          always has been…always will be.

          Selective outrage and selective standards need to be highlighted.

  1. White supremacists, racism and anti-immigration rhetoric — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition