Erdogan and Islamic State escalations

Worrying attempts at escalations by President of turkey Erdogan, and a warning by ISIS.

Also:

That won’t be good for tourism in Turkey.

NZ Herald: Turkish President warns NZ over mosque attacks, invokes Gallipoli

Will any Kiwis risk going to ANZAC events there this year?

And there is also news coming out from NY Times that Islamic State has issued a warning over the Christchurch attacks.

 

 

54 Comments

  1. duperez

     /  March 20, 2019

    A politician in Turkey using the Christchurch massacre opportunistically? It seems some mindsets are universal.

    • Corky

       /  March 20, 2019

      No worries. I have been told this tragedy won’t affect our world standing. The world is behind New Zealand. I said the massacre is indelibly associated with New Zealand. Many within Islam won’t make the fine distinction of the gunman being Aussie..and not a Kiwi.

      I would cancel ANZAC remembrances this year

      • Finbaar Rustle

         /  March 20, 2019

        More likely it will be another chance for both regimes to wave the flag
        talk about world peace, forgiveness cultural awareness etc.
        Security will be tight warnings about travel issued which like tidal wave warnings will
        have young (mostly white) OE Kiwis racing to get the T-Shirt.
        Prayers will be offered up, Hymns will be sung, wreaths laid, hakas performed,
        last posts sounded, military salutes, flags half mastered and raised.
        Leaders delivering sombre but heart warming speeches their script writers have written.
        The whole orchestrated shebang shown live in Kiwi land.
        Then all forgotten till next years show.

  2. NOEL

     /  March 20, 2019

    Another President bullshitting to his base voters.

  3. Finbaar Rustle

     /  March 20, 2019

    104 years ago thousands of white New Zealanders sailed off to
    invade Galipolli near what is today modern Turkey.
    They believed they were fighting for God King and Country.
    They believed they would destroy the Turks because the British
    especially the white Christian British were superior to the evil brown Muslims.
    But this time the British Empire troops were crushed by the Turks.
    Ironically both the victorious Turks and the vanquished ANZACS claimed victory.
    In New Zealand ANZAC day is the countries holy day.
    it has always been claimed that Gallipoli defined New Zealand as a nation.
    So invading a foreign country, being emphatically defeated in a catastrophic failure
    in a war which actually achieved nothing defines our nation.
    Really? Is that it?
    Now another white Anzac cowardly murders
    50 unarmed Muslims in their house of worship.
    In 1915 “we became a nation”.
    On Friday “we have changed”
    Politicians do say some silly things.
    At the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month the guns fell silent
    then 5 seconds later started up some where else in the world
    and have never stopped since.
    At the going down of the sun and in the morning we might remember…
    but do we ever learn?

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  March 20, 2019

      Somehow it is an irrelevant fact to you that the Turks had entered the war on Germany’s side and attacked Russia prior to the Gallipoli campaign?

      • Blazer

         /  March 20, 2019

        and Gt Britain became involved because??

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  March 20, 2019

          Russia asked for help.

          • Blazer

             /  March 20, 2019

            ‘Russia asked for help.’

            good o…’Russia on the line …wouldn’t mind some help old boy…’…send a few colonial regiments in to sort the bally Turks out then…Winston…..and pour me another….whisky.’

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  March 20, 2019

              Britain and France also committed troops. The sea supply route to Russia was at stake.

              Sneering from your comfort zone is easy.

            • Blazer

               /  March 20, 2019

              EMPIRE!

        • kimbo

           /  March 20, 2019

          The Germans invaded neutral Belgium, and committed numerous atrocities against civilians while doing so, and sacked Louvain.

          All in the name of (Christian) “kultur”.

      • Blazer

         /  March 20, 2019

        a broken down scientist turned property ‘investor’ well out of his depth in geo politics and..history.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  March 20, 2019

          Your personality shines out of your mouth, B.

  4. Finbaar Rustle

     /  March 20, 2019

    It was all Empire madness.
    Nobody won. Everybody lost. Nothing was achieved.
    Millions died, were gassed or wounded or traumatised for no good reason.
    Millions were left to pick up the pieces for decades.
    New Zealand’s involvement was pointless and
    did not shorten the war by even one second.
    The war to end all wars just started the next war 20 years later.
    The Anzac’s failed at Gallipoli and died achieving nothing.
    New Zealanders were so badly traumatised by the scale of the losses,
    the humiliation of the defeat and the meaninglessness of it all.
    They chose to replace horror with honour as a coping mechanism
    and thus the myth of the Anzac’s was born
    “They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old”
    They did not grow old because they died young in a war
    that was totally unnecessary which achieved nothing.
    A cautionary tale.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  March 20, 2019

      It ended both the German and Ottoman Empires.

      • Finbaar Rustle

         /  March 20, 2019

        Germany never had a real empire. A dry worthless stretch of land in SW Africa and Samoa hardly constitutes an Empire. The Ottoman empire had disintegrated 200 years before.
        Russia capitulated in 1917 fully 18 months before the armistice.
        France was so badly weakened she rolled over in 6 weeks when destroyed 20 years later by Germany. Britain suffered a terrible defeat at Dunkirk in May 1940 and though she managed to hold off the Germans in the air Britain did not seriously get involved in WW2 until 1944 when the Russians had defeated the Germans who were retreating as fast as they could and give themselves up to the Americans. In the East 50,000 Brits surrendered to 2,500 Japanese in Singapore.
        Britain’s involvement in WW2 is vastly over rated as she was at best a minor and weak player so NZ was therefore a minor weak player in a minor weak players war.
        But the British and Kiwi narratives/myths paints different pictures of course

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  March 20, 2019

          German empire was pretty extensive in Europe:

          Britain’s role in WW2 over-rated??!!
          You truly are bizarre.

          • Finbaar Rustle

             /  March 20, 2019

            A few Dukedoms in the alps the size of Northland is an Empire?
            Pitiful comes to mind.
            You truly are bizarre.
            Your lack of knowledge is so obvious.
            Do some study.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  March 20, 2019

              Population was half as big again as Britain’s.

            • Finbaar Rustle

               /  March 20, 2019

              Britain’s empire had 500 million people more than Germany’s population. Need to do better than that.

            • Kimbo

               /  March 20, 2019

              …and German industrial capacity was also greater than Britain in 1914.

              And the fact that the German Empire was so extensive made it a genuine world war. Due to the risk of German naval action in the Indian Ocean the ANZAC troopships were escorted to Egypt by our Japanese allies. The second largest naval action after Jutland took place in the Falkland Islands, and the great German commander Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck kept a far larger Allied force chasing after him in East Africa for the entire course of the war.

            • Blazer

               /  March 20, 2019

              @Kimbo…’. The second largest naval action after Jutland took place in the Falkland Islands’

              complete b/s ..you clearly have NFI.

            • Kimbo

               /  March 20, 2019

              @ Blazer

              Read agin, more carefully. I was referring to the destruction of Admiral von Spee’s German East Asia Squadron in December 1914, the second largest naval battle of the Great War (after Jutland), not the 1982 war with Argentina.

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Falkland_Islands

              The fact that the Chinese-based German squadron was sunk in the South West Atlantic, after it had first sunk a British force off the coast of Chile,

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Coronel

              …puts the lie to Finbaar Rustle’s claim that “Germany never had a real empire”. Instead it was wide and extensive, sufficiently large to cause the Allies significant headaches in 1914-15, and in von Lettow-Vorbeck’s case he was undefeated in the field.

              As a result of Germany losing the Great War, Western Samoa was mandated to New Zealand, Micronesia to Japan, New Guinea and Nauru to Australia, South West Africa to South Africa, and Tanganyika (one of the largest territories in Africa) to Britain.

              Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine pocket battleship Graf Spee that the HMNZS Achilles fought in Battle of the River Plate in 1939 was named in his honour.

            • Blazer

               /  March 20, 2019

              @Kimbo…humble apologies..I learnt something new today…as I do most days.!

            • Kimbo

               /  March 20, 2019

              @ Blazer

              No problem. No doubt my convoluted, even turgid prose that was as graceless, complicated and frantic as Scheer’s efforts to stop Jellicoe “costing the ‘t’” at Jutland that muddied the waters. 😀

        • Kimbo

           /  March 20, 2019

          …and in 1914 our primary means of defence was the Royal Navy. Just as in 1942 the fall of Singapore was potentially calamitous for our national defence, so the fall of the French Channel ports would have altered the balance of world naval power, Incidentally, the event that preempted the Ottoman’s entry into the Great War on the side of the Central Powers was the safe harbour it offered to two German cruisers…later used to shell the Tsarist Russian port of Sebastopol,

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pursuit_of_Goeben_and_Breslau

          • Finbaar Rustle

             /  March 20, 2019

            Germany had no Navy to speak of.

            • Finbaar Rustle

               /  March 20, 2019

              In fact the German navy was so scared of the British navy in WW1 apart from the odd action they were told to stay in port.

            • Kimbo

               /  March 20, 2019

              So the German unrestricted Uboat warfare was an insignificant threat?So insignificant that President Woodrow Wilson decided to buck against the USA’s natural isolationist default setting and get his nation involved in World War I despite his and the American electorate’s previous implacable determination to maintain neutral.

              And btw, the largest loss of NZ life in one day was not at Napier in 1931, Tangiwai, Erebus, or Christchurch in 2011…or last Friday. Instead it was at Passchendaele on on 12 October 1917. And the reason Haig kept up the Allied offensive despite the autumn rains that turned the battlefield into an ocean of mud was in the hope of making a breakthrough that would liberate the Belgian ports from which it was assumed the Germans were operating those UBoats…which at one point were sinking so much merchant tonnage, it seemed like Britain had only 6 months to forestall being knocked out of the war.

              And Jutland was the most significant naval battle since Trafalgar, and the largest until Leyte Gulf. The fact that the Germans, despite “winning” on numbers at Jutland/Skagerrak, realised they could not defeat the Royal Navy – the greatest navy in the world at that point – does not mean the Germans had no navy to speak of. Indeed, it was because the French took up much of the Allied naval slack in the Mediterranean, the Japanese in the Pacific and Indian Oceans, and after 1917 the Americans in the Atlantic, that the British were able to maintain a clear superiority over Scheer and Hipper’s High Seas Fleet in the critical North Sea theatre. So critical in fact that Winston Churchill rightly described British Admiral Jellicoe as “the one man who could lose the war in an afternoon”.

              Is as foolish as arguing that because the main body of the Imperial Japanese Navy withdrew after their carriers were sunk at the Battle of Midway in 1942 they too were not a navy to speak of.

    • Kimbo

       /  March 20, 2019

      There are villages in Belgium that to this day hold a memorial service every day for the Kiwis and other Allied troops who died to liberate them from an enemy they never sought. I doubt they consider our involvement “was totally unnecessary which achieved nothing.”

      • Finbaar Rustle

         /  March 20, 2019

        WW1 achieved nothing because the same pugilists went to war 20 years later.
        Neither war ended a second earlier because NZ was involved.
        You need to forget the myths and study the facts.

        • Kimbo

           /  March 20, 2019

          The reason they had to fight round two in 1939-45 was probably because the Allies signed the armistice too soon in 1918. Tragic given so many had died up to that point, but as Germany was not clearly defeated in the field at that point (despite it being imminent at any moment) and then occupied as the likes of American General Pershing argued at the time, the likes of Ludendorff and later Hitler got to peddle the “stab in the back” myth/lie. And the lie that Versailles was an overly punitive and unjust peace. In 1945 the Allies imposed far harsher terms, and no one quibbled about the reality of German war guilt!

          Oh, yes, and Belgium, among a host of other nations in Europe was liberated again

          • Finbaar Rustle

             /  March 20, 2019

            France barely fought round 2 being destroyed in 6 weeks. Britain’s army was destroyed in 1940 and did not reemerge till 1944 at the side of the USA against a Germany beaten by Russia and retreating fast.
            The allies actually did not apply any penalties after WW2 because by wars end Britain France and Germany were minor players. It was USA v USSR. the beginning of the 45 year cold war. The Western allies especially wanted German support to oppose the growing power of Russia.

  5. Alan Wilkinson

     /  March 20, 2019
  6. Tipene

     /  March 20, 2019

    The retaliation will come.

    No-one can stop it.

    No-one has ever been able to stop it.

    Jacinda’s entire meta-narrative is based on one mewling plea:

    “Please don’t shoot us / bomb us / retaliate against us”

    She will be as ineffective in stopping a retaliation as she was in increasing the sales of head scarves.

    • That’s pure confecture. It’s easy to guess – and forget if it never happens. But there’s no way of knowing. A lot of threats never get carried out – actually attacks that happen are more likely to be surprises.

      The secret services and police and public need to be alert to any signs.

      But fear mongering is just plying the game they wanted played by those who seem to be willing something bad to happen.

      • MaureenW

         /  March 20, 2019

        I don’t think it’s fear mongering – just that it’s a likely response. I hope not but wouldn’t be surprised.

        • I don’t think it’s a likely response. There’s no indication that it is, and it would be difficult to do here.

          Vigilance is obviously necessary, but raising fears is largely what vague threats are for, and most often that’s all that happens.

          • MaureenW

             /  March 20, 2019

            I hope you’re right Pete

          • Gezza

             /  March 20, 2019

            Islamic State (IS) has called for retaliation over the Christchurch mosque massacre, US media report.

            A person has been charged with one count of murder – but more charges are likely – after a gunman killed 50 people and injured 50 in a terrorist attack on Friday.

            A spokesperson for the jihadist movement, Abu Hassan al-Muhajir, said the killings should wake up those who were fooled and incite the supporters of the caliphate to avenge their religion.

            In a 44-minute audio recording reported by the New York Times, Mr al-Mujahir portrays the shootings as an extension of the US-led campaign against IS, and mocks White House claims of victory over the organisation.

            The New York Times reports this is the first message to the world for six months from IS, which has lost all but a sliver of the territory it once controlled in Iraq and Syria.

            Abu Hassan al-Muhajir is a pseudonym, the true identity of the person is unknown.

            Rukmini Callimachi wrote the story for the New York Times.

            She told Morning Report it was definitely an “authentic” recording and it was a “big deal” for IS when Abu Hassan al-Muhajir releases a statement such as this.

            “This is an authentic statement, there’s never been a case of an audio recording released by [IS media] … being a fake recording of an Isis member.”

            Callimachi said she would assume that every IS member or supporter who has access to the internet would have listened to it by now.

            Asked how seriously the threat needed to be taken given IS’s loss of territory, Callimachi said the jihadist group has made a large number of threats, only some of which have come to fruition.

            “What concerns me is that Isis is not the only jihadist group that is calling for retaliatory attacks in [relation] to what happened in Christchurch.

            “So far almost every major jihadist group has called for that.

            The recording has been released on the same app that is being used by white extremists to pass around the video of the Christchurch terrorist attacks.

            SIS Director-General Rebecca Kitteridge said in a statement the agency was focused on supporting police in their investigation and the resulting prosecutions, and on mitigating the risks to New Zealanders posed by possible revenge or copycat attacks.

            Otago University professor of politics and international relations Robert Patman told Morning Report that ironically, both IS and white nationalists share the same incorrect idea about people of different religions living side by side.

            “Islamic State and white nationalists share the same narratives that Muslims and non-Muslims cannot co-exist, which is completely factually untrue,” Prof Patman said
            https://newsie.co.nz/news/144457-islamic-state-calls-retaliation-christchurch-mosque-attacks.html

            I bookmarked this page on the Stuff live page late this morning reporting Mike Bush defending the length of time it has taken to release the bodies, because underneath there was quite a bit more than shown above speaking about our intelligence agencies are closely monitoring the risks of retaliation attacks in cooperation with Australia’s and I think other international partner agencies. That item seems to have disappeared. It was quite clear from that though, that that risk is not considered minimal.

    • duperez

       /  March 20, 2019

      If you were in her position what would you have done and said?

  7. harryk

     /  March 20, 2019

    ‘The secret services and police and public need to be alert to any signs.’

    Indeed. But intelligence agencies are not self tasking. They have to be tasked by the Govt of the day. The PM and her Ministers are responsible and shouldn’t be permitted to deflect.

    Mr Peters’ visit to Jakarta will almost certainly see his counterpart enquiring why NZ continues to allow supporters of OPM terrorism to flourish and fund violence outside NZ borders. NZ of course has had police there for a while now working bilaterally on people smuggling issues. There’s always a quid pro quo. Co-operate with us and we co-operate with you. Don’t, and we won’t either.

    You have a problem so long as so many of your pollies openly support OPM terrorism in Papua. Convert the percentage of pollies into percentage of population [approx 10%] and the problem is even more apparent – many of your citizens support violence against civilians in someone else’s country. They are concentrated in the Green and Labour parties. Similarly, some Irish descendents in the U.S supported PIRA and directed funds through NORAID.

    https://securitynewsdesk.com/opinion-noraid-supporters-must-examine-their-consciences-over-ira/

    While in Jakarta Mr Peters would be well advised to publicly offer condolences to the families of the 19 civilian workers massacred by terrorists in Nduga, Indonesia last December.

  8. Tipene

     /  March 20, 2019

    Attempts so far to mitigate the possibility of retaliation that are doomed to fail:

    * A feminist PM adopting a headscarf within the context of a religion that holds women to be second-class citizens, closely followed by an invitation this Friday for NZ women, descendants of the suffragettes no less, to do the same.

    * The Speaker of the House inviting a prayer in Arabic in Parliament to Allah, which is the same speaker who eliminated a Christian prayer from Parliament.

    * Police arresting people for exercising their sovereign right to watch an online video.

    * People being fired from their jobs for watching an online video, when there is no legal precedent in employment law for companies to do so.

    * NZ media organisations scrubbing their online content of any article deemed offensive to Islam.

    * Radio commentators apologizing and tugging their forelocks for writing a critique on Islamic practices in NZ as they apply to the use of ratepayer funded facilities.

    * Passing laws designed to significantly disarm a law abiding, gun owning population.

    * Shutting down and suppressing free speech and open discourse on the events that have unfolded, and censoring discussion (including a variety of viewpoints) on same.

    Leading up to 2017, Canada adopted a number of the above measures, eventually adopting M103 in the Canadian House of Commons (look it up if interested).

    I suspect that is where we are heading as well.

    Not that it will make one blind bit of difference to the outcome, in my opinion.

    [My response to this abhorrent defence of the terrorist: An attempt to excuse and defend the Christchurch terrorist – PG]

    • patupaiarehe

       /  March 20, 2019

      Not only are they doomed to fail Tipene, they are exactly the results the bastard wanted. As I am unsure of the legal status of his so called manifesto, I won’t quote from it here. IMHO censoring it is a mistake, as it plays right into his hands.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  March 20, 2019

      Great summary, Tipene. Some really bad knee-jerk reactions and actions there.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  March 20, 2019

        Speaking of which, G W Bush should be a textbook illustration of the likely disastrous consequences of knee-jerk reactions to terrorism.

        • Gezza

           /  March 20, 2019

          You think we are going to attack Australia & depose their leader?

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  March 20, 2019

            If you think I think that you need to hit the sack too.

            • Gezza

               /  March 20, 2019

              See below for comparison assessment. Then go to bed before you start on a lefty rant.

        • Gezza

           /  March 20, 2019

          * A feminist PM adopting a headscarf within the context of a religion that holds women to be second-class citizens, closely followed by an invitation this Friday for NZ women, descendants of the suffragettes no less, to do the same.

          I don’t recall Bush or his wife doing that. He and his buddies attacked Afghanistan and Iraq instead.

          * The Speaker of the House inviting a prayer in Arabic in Parliament to Allah, which is the same speaker who eliminated a Christian prayer from Parliament.

          I don’t recall the speaker of their House doing that – he was all for attacking Afghanistan and Iraq.

          * Police arresting people for exercising their sovereign right to watch an online video.

          They wanted people to do that because it was so horrific and it gave them an opportunity to attack Afghanistan and Iraq and also gave a massive series of libertarian conspiracy nuts licence to argue the US government and even Israel were complicit in it and the whole thing was a globalist plot – that’s still going on.

          * People being fired from their jobs for watching an online video, when there is no legal precedent in employment law for companies to do so.

          Yes this seems an over-reaction and I suspect the companies concerned will have to reinstate them if they sue. But we’ll have to see.

          * NZ media organisations scrubbing their online content of any article deemed offensive to Islam.

          They do seem to be censoring things, and I don’t think this is a good idea.

          * Radio commentators apologizing and tugging their forelocks for writing a critique on Islamic practices in NZ as they apply to the use of ratepayer funded facilities.

          Dunno what that’s about. I think that happened in the US too. Didn’t matter, they were still all gung ho for attacking Afghanistan and Iraq.

          * Passing laws designed to significantly disarm a law abiding, gun owning population.

          Don’t recall that happening in America – they still want to fight for the right to shoot each other dead in droves.

          * Shutting down and suppressing free speech and open discourse on the events that have unfolded, and censoring discussion (including a variety of viewpoints) on same.

          I don’t know about this – there may well have been some hate speech cases.

          Leading up to 2017, Canada adopted a number of the above measures, eventually adopting M103 in the Canadian House of Commons (look it up if interested).

          Dunno what that’s about. Not interested enuf to look it up.

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