The end is nigh for Planet Earth?

Pat Baskett considers what it feels like for young people to face turning their lives around to save the planet from environmental collapse

If I were 14 instead of 74 I would be pretty depressed after last week. Another 220sq km of good food-producing land in Taranaki is to be potentially wrecked so that we can continue to drive, fly and live the way we always have.

My 14-year-old’s eyes would have been caught by the title of the conference, the Just Transition Summit, at which these new permits for oil and gas exploration were announced. She understands that we need to go through a transition period but her impatience for this to start is obvious. New permits – on land as opposed to the ban on new ocean permits – seem like a step backwards.

She also understands the positioning of the word “just” because she understands that climate change is linked to the rise of inequality and economic injustice.

Ten years, the most likely time we have to turn our lives around, seems a mere blink to me. For teens, it stretches ahead like an open road leading they know not quite where.

 

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45 Comments

  1. Duker

     /  13th May 2019

    Is that Tim Murphy from NIWA, why no its the medias Tim Murphy getting his 14 yr olds on the bandwagon
    “Another 220sq km of good food-producing land in Taranaki is to be potentially wrecked ”

    Just silly nonsense again- does he even know how ‘exploration drilling works’. Its only a minute fraction of the permit area, or even that CO2 is essential for plant life including grass, but surely he wants rid of that sort of food producing land they have in Taranaki

    Reply
    • The Consultant

       /  13th May 2019

      Some things never change…

      Reply
    • Wayne

       /  13th May 2019

      Right through Taranaki there are cows grazing with 5 meters of a producing gas/oil well.
      I presume Pete put up this item to show the level of emotion that is driving some of the debate.

      The reality is nothing we do in NZ about CO2 will make any difference to the climate. That is fundamentally governed by the actions of much larger countries. Which is not to say we should do nothing, as David Seymour proposes. We should do our part, and in fact in some areas we should lead, just as Norway does.

      New Zealand is going to be fine in 2045. We are probably the best country in the world able to cope with climate change. Being a group of islands in a vast ocean pretty much guarantees that.

      Reply
      • Dennis Horne

         /  13th May 2019

        1 Doesn’t matter where the GHG is added the effect is the same. (Shall I draw a Mapp?) 2. You know we have locked in 5 metres of sea level rise? Some will arrive this century: 1-2m. What is so special about 2045?

        Reply
  2. Treuddyn Ted

     /  13th May 2019

    So this Tim, what food would he be growing on this land? Cows are a no-no. I hear trees are the crop the govt wants. Which variety are the tastiest?
    If his target is 14 year olds, he should be getting them to walk everywhere and refuse to eat anything that has spent part of its life wrapped in plastic or carried in fossil fueled transport.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  13th May 2019

      …and wear clothes made of unbleached cotton (no zips or buttons), not use computers, phones or televisions (all made of plastic)., not write with biros, not use dunnies (made of plastic also), not wear tights or any undies, not use toothbrushes or toothpaste….

      Reply
  3. The Consultant

     /  13th May 2019

    It’s as if Tim Murphy has no idea that 14 year old kids have access to the Web, via which, among other things, they constantly have fun laughing at the fashions of the 1960’s and 70’s: clothing, music, album covers, TV shows, movies, fad – and things like this:

    Mass death via nuclear war. Mass death via over-population leading to starvation. And even if these didn’t get you, the future was decidely dystopian.

    As you can guess, the kids who are laughing at all this are more than a little skeptical of the new versions of the old preacher’s game. And as Tim Murphy so ably demonstrates, the counter-culture of the 1960’s where “The Youth Are With Us”, has not gone awat either, despite being just as hackneyed and dated as the clothing fashions.

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  13th May 2019

      Yesss
      The youth are skeptical.
      ‘What fuckin planet do you live on ?

      Of the 1000 New Zealanders polled, 88 percent think we will see more severe floods, storms and inundation as a result of climate change.

      Eighty-four percent agree humanity is able to reduce climate change, but just 10 pecent think we will take appropriate action.

      Seventy-nine percent agree we need to start taking action now, and 78 percent think we need to act even if other countries don’t.

      Seventy-four percent believe climate change will result in people needing to move from where they live now.

      You are not in the United States of gibbering ignorance here mate.
      NZ does not have anything like you favorite political party.
      GOP party of antiscience nutbars .
      Kids dont watch Fox so are not confused by a never ending stream of propaganda.
      Children are not old pale male and stale.
      Unlike you who can not even get what country we are living in into his head.

      Reply
      • The Consultant

         /  13th May 2019

        Says the guy with no kids. Lot of encounters with “youf” out there, Griff?

        As with many other things, you have no idea what you’re talking about

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  13th May 2019

          Yess Hunter
          GOP supporter taking about the youth vote. You gotta be kidding me.
          Youth are skeptical of AGW ?
          On planet Fox.
          Back in the real world. I actually gave some evidence not just whatever come from my fox addled imagination.
          Skeptical is a fringe loon position In NZ . It is highly correlated to old white fox watching right wing idiots.

          Lets talk about the average Republican The gullible ones who are sucked in by the bullshite .
          Come in Joe Dirt …..
          Old, Uneducated, God addled, Yokels .


          That’s what happens when your party leaders are a bunch of antiscience nutjobs…The thinking man leaves and the dirt remains .
          Demographic shift.
          Another few years of current trends and we can consign the entire republican party and its backwards looking mentality to the dustbin of time.

          Reply
          • The Consultant

             /  13th May 2019

            Demographic shift.
            Another few years of current trends and we can consign the entire republican party and its backwards looking mentality to the dustbin of time.

            I’ve been hearing all that for at least four decades. It was the reason that the GOP in 2008 was doomed (doomed I tells ya) to being a tiny rump of Old, White Men after the triumph of Obama. House, Senate, POTUS: mighty, mighty demographics meant the GOP would never see control of them again.

            And the “scary evangelical” theme was a regular slur against Reagan in the 1980’s.

            Not to mention that – at least according to those charts – the GOP in the early 1990’s was supported more than Democrats by college graduates and at least holding it’s own with post-graduates. But at precisely that time Left-wing supremacists were making exactly the same idiot claims that you are now.

            So clearly the stats are not telling the whole story, but your inability to think wider than the graphs is classic “griff”. It’s also why you’re losing – or did you not notice all those Science-Denying Democrat Senators who refused to even vote for AOC’s Green New Deal, or voted against it?

            Reply
            • Griff.

               /  13th May 2019

              ROFL
              hello son
              Do you understand what a trend is ?
              Going back to 1990’s?
              Fuck thats half a generation ago.
              Get with this century at lest mate.

  4. Zedd

     /  13th May 2019

    said it before.. I’ll say it again.. APATHY is our biggest enemy. The onset of ‘Climate change’ was declared ‘Our nuclear-free moment’ by Jacinda etc. & yet, people still drive ‘gas-guzzlers’, fly from pole to pole (more than every before).. increasingly in private planes too.

    Meanwhile MrT (so-called ‘leader of the Free world’.) still denies it, saying ‘it is chinese conspiracy’. Oh yes.. I recently hear, he has also just withdrawn from any agreements to curtail the use of non-biodegradable plastics..

    ‘Heads in the sand’ will NOT ‘make it all go away’ either ! :/

    .. oh dear…… “we’re all doomed.. ai tellz ya !!” ;(

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  13th May 2019

      another rant from the ‘not so jolly Green cynic’ 😦 😦 😦

      Reply
  5. And the media wants us to pay to read this sort ignorance? Astounding.

    Reply
    • Dennis Horne

       /  13th May 2019

      What exactly do you disagree with? How would you rate your own expertise on man-made global warming and climate change?

      Reply
      • “Another 220sq km of good food-producing land in Taranaki is to be potentially wrecked so that we can continue to drive, fly and live the way we always have.”

        Really no farming or forestry to take places on this 220 sq kms. No one living on it. No houses, no orchards.

        Abject kysterical nonsense.

        Reply
  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  13th May 2019

    Spencer has a recent series of interesting posts here for those who want more than the opinions of 14 year olds and Dennis Horne.

    http://www.drroyspencer.com/

    Reply
    • Dennis Horne

       /  13th May 2019

      Roy Spencer. The man who thinks his god won’t allow his “boys” to completely fkcu up his creation. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

      Recommended by a physical chemist who “thinks” he know more science than the American Chemical Society. And the American Physical Society, American Association for the Advancement of Science, National Academy of Sciences, Royal Society of London.

      In other words, Wilkie old chap, you don’t know what science is, how it works, or where to find it even. Ha ha ha.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  13th May 2019

        Dennis, the “man” who thinks abuse is debate and science.

        Reply
      • Trevors_elbow

         /  13th May 2019

        Stick to stink poetry Dennis… you ridicule skills Re pitiful…

        Reply
    • Griff.

       /  13th May 2019

      Yess we really want the opinion of a god addled fringe crank Alan.

      We will not ask him about evolution because according to Roy the theory of evolution is bunk.

      We could ask him if it is true that god made the earth so we can possibly not do anything to change it .Opps that is right no need he already told us that was true .
      #religious nutbars

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  13th May 2019

        Spencer , a metrologist and expert on ” U.S. Science Team leader for the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer (AMSR-E) on NASA’s Aqua satellite” ie remotes sensing of earth by satellite ie ‘ cloud properties, sea surface temperature, near-surface wind speed, radiative energy flux, surface water, ice and snow. ‘
        Sure he may not be an expert on evolution It seems hes more of an intelligent design guy, rather than
        And yet you are fine with Tim Murphy whos an <expert former Herald editor , and runs newsroom. The story is written by …wait for it. Pat Baskett, a self described “an Auckland writer and climate activist- in reality a full time scaremonger with zero qualifications outside her ‘mongering’, and a far left greeny

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  13th May 2019

          WTF
          I dont know anything about the person you pictured.
          Another case of your over active imagination son.
          I am only interested in science not random activists.

          Spencer is a fringe crank whose scientific output is now ignored because he has made so many basic errors .
          Corrected here.
          A Comparative Analysis of Data Derived from Orbiting MSU/AMSU Instruments
          https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JTECH-D-16-0121.1
          and here.
          Removing Diurnal Cycle Contamination in Satellite-Derived Tropospheric Temperatures: Understanding Tropical Tropospheric Trend Discrepancies
          https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JCLI-D-13-00767.1

          Layman article on some of the earlier problems with Spencers work.

          I could give a few more but you only get three links before you go into moderation.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  13th May 2019

            Pat Bassket is the climate activist and non expert who wrote the story for newsroom featured in the post
            Im sure shes a nice person …but really , previous stories have been about bee keeping on the Chathams
            Spencer uses satellite data.
            -cloud properties, sea surface temperature, near-surface wind speed, radiative energy flux, surface water, ice and snow.

            Reply
            • Griff.

               /  13th May 2019

              Hello
              Duks
              I know a lot better than you who Roy is and what he does.
              I have just pointed out that Spencers attempts at using satellite data to infer tropospheric temperatures from Microwave sounding have been corrected by linking to some of the papers that found errors in his work.

              In science you get away with making mistakes …Up to a point.
              Spencer has made so many errors that his papers now just get ignored.
              He is one of the 3% on the fringe of climate science one of the few that is still actively publishing .

              Here is a discussion on another paper of Sencers that was found to be full of errors. It was so bad that the journal editors resigned because they did not want to be linked to such crappy work.
              http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/07/misdiagnosis-of-surface-temperature-feedback/

              There are more …..

            • Duker

               /  13th May 2019

              You wouldnt want to go there about crappy measurements , certain proxy based papers are full of them
              But heres stuff from a real expert

            • Duker

               /  13th May 2019

              “Spencers attempts at using satellite data to infer tropospheric temperatures from Microwave sounding” …..really?

              Its a Nasa project to use satellites to collect various data…. in the upper atmosphere. Hardly ‘attempts’
              Go ahead …learn something using real observations instead of figments of the imagination – or climate models as some call them
              ttps://search.earthdata.nasa.gov/search?m=-125.4375!24.46875!0!1!0!0%2C2&fst0=Atmosphere&fsm0=Atmospheric%20Temperature&fs10=Air%20Temperature&fst1=Atmosphere&fsm1=Atmospheric%20Temperature&fs11=Upper%20Air%20Temperature

            • Griff.

               /  13th May 2019

              [deleted – use proper names] I know who Spencer is and who he works for.
              It is not NASSA he works out of the University of Alabama hence.
              UHA=University of Huntsville Alabama.

              The satellites dont measure temperatures the satellites measure micro wave brightness and use a complex set of equations including climate models to transfer them into temperature.
              Here is the method used by RSS another series using the same data.
              http://images.remss.com/papers/rsspubs/Mears_JTECH_2009_TLT_construction.pdf
              .
              corrections to UHA up to 2005

              Corrections since

            • Duker

               /  13th May 2019

              They are NASA satellites , different satellites with different sensors measure such things as co2 the principles are the same for temperatures as of course they can’t measure these parameters directly. Fine tuning is essential and not a fault.
              As for his role the U.S. Science Team leader for the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer …and of course his role University of Alabama
              Only a foolish person would think there is never a problem with a satellite sensor. Ignoring of course that the main earth temperature datasets don’t agree and of course are altering their temperature readings all the time and especially quite recent ones…that’s even after the official temperatures have been fiddled..any thing too cold is never allowed to stay while too hot is acclaimed as a new record

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  13th May 2019

        The religious nutbars are the ones who perpetually abuse anyone they disagree with. Gavin Schmidt/realclimate falls into that category rather than Spencer. So do you, Griff.

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  13th May 2019

          Yess science is a religion
          [deleted]

          In case you did not notice Alan I gave reasons why Roy is considered a crank including linking to multiple times he has been proven wrong In the peer reviewed literature. We are up to five so far and there are probably more .
          I also linked to the bunch of gibbering fundie god whackers that maintain “God made the earth so we can not change it . Dr Roy is a science adviser for them. Ie he is the scientist they use to derive their fundie nonsense.

          It is just what we expect from someone hiding from reality. Any evidence that disputes your world view is discarded out of hand .

          As to attacking real climate.
          lets see how they are considered in the scientific world.

          Gavin Schmidt. Director of GISS and Principal Investigator for the GISS ModelE Earth System Model,
          Cited by
          All Since 2014
          Citations 17869 7736
          h-index 64 47
          i10-index 130 112

          Michael E. Mann Distinguished Professor of Atmospheric Science at Penn State,
          Cited by

          Citations 32307 12516
          h-index 79 52
          i10-index 191 147

          Rasmus E. Benestad climate scientist at the Norwegian Meteorological Institute.
          Cited by
          All Since 2014
          Citations 9435 3916
          h-index 35 25
          i10-index 68 53

          Raymond S Bradley Distinguished Professor of Geosciences, University of Massachusetts

          Citations 34304 11254
          h-index 82 51
          i10-index 228 136

          Stefan Rahmstorf professor of Physics of the Oceans, Potsdam University
          Cited by
          All Since 2014
          Citations 28809 11865
          h-index 70 49
          i10-index 124 96

          There are more you can research them your self
          Eric Steig
          David Archer
          Ray Pierrehumbert

          Do tell what Dr Roy Spencer PhD’s h index is ?
          How many cites ?

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  13th May 2019

            Irrelevant to what I posted other than comfirming your usual nutbar personal attacks as noted.

            Reply
        • Dennis Horne

           /  13th May 2019

          Could be about 70,000 climate scientists believe Gavin knows what he’s talking about and know Spencer doesn’t. However, feel free to name five publishing climate scientists who do.

          For heaven’s sake man, global warming/climate change is considered a fact. LOOK:

          https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/climate_denier
          Definition of climate denier in English:
          climate denier
          A person who rejects the proposition that climate change caused by human activity is occurring.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  13th May 2019

            Please don’t be a fatuous fool for ever, Dennis. I’ve pointed out many times that most climate sceptics are not deniers by that definition. So why do you keep regurgitating it as though it means something? That’s truly moron territory.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  13th May 2019

              There arent70,000 climate scientists. Far from it. A long time IPCC head was a railway PhD engineer
              The current chair of the ILCC…glad you asked..
              Hoesung Lee is a South Korean economist and current chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. He is professor in the economics of climate change,.
              Hehehe too funny not a climate scientist, although they start out with a proper climate scientists Bert Bolin but that was more than 20 yrs ago

  7. The Consultant

     /  13th May 2019

    Shhhh….

    Nobody tell our two local, angry, abusive cranks here how many scientists are religious. Might blow their tiny, tiny minds.

    From the second link:

    the [Pew Research] survey shows that scientists are roughly half as likely as the general public to believe in God or a higher power. According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power.

    From the first link:

    The picture that’s emerging from Ecklund’s research shows that the reality is more complex than the simple dichotomy of science versus religion. Yes, scientists are less religious than the general population. But there are also many religious scientists, even a few outspoken evangelicals—like Francis Collins, who headed the prestigious Human Genome Project (1993-2008), and was appointed last year by Obama to head the National Institutes of Health. Collins says he feels no conflict between science and religion.

    Of course highly intelligent people would be able to separate science and religion. Less intelligent people probably less so. Even more when the science becomes their religion! 🙂

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  13th May 2019

      Intelligence is negatively correlated to belief in gods.
      Your point is ?

      Highly intelligent people would be able to separate science and religion.
      Ah an absolute and no true Scotsman .
      Logic fail son.
      Many religious scientists put aside their religion when they do science .
      Unfortunately Roy Spencer can not .
      Hence his belief that god made it so we can not change it corrupts his attempts at science.

      Reply
    • Dennis Horne

       /  13th May 2019

      The conflict is: many people believe in the supernatural with no evidence whatsoever yet refuse to believe climate science when the evidence is overwhelming.

      Although I cannot demonstrate there are no gods, it is self-evident all the gods we know about we invented ourselves.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  13th May 2019

        The evidence is a small amount of warming….the rest is extrapolation into the future with a whole range of different computer models who give different results every time they do a ‘run’ and that’s for a single model

        Reply
  8. Zedd

     /  13th May 2019

    Resistance is futile ! 😀

    Reply
  9. Pink David

     /  13th May 2019

    I’m reminded of Andrew Simm’s series in the Guardian, ‘100 months to save the world’

    Subtitle “The final countdown

    This series started on August 1st 2008

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/aug/01/climatechange.carbonemissions

    Reply
  10. Maggy Wassilieff

     /  13th May 2019

    Relax all of you folks with the “intelligence of a sea sponge”.

    The world isn’t going to end in 12 years.

    Ocasio-Cortez was just disporting her dry humour!
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/05/12/ocasio-cortez-climate-change-destroy-earth-12-years-claim-not-literal/#

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  13th May 2019

      “Ocasio-Cortez: If people want to really blow up one figure here or one word there, I would argue that they’re missing the forest for the trees. I think that there’s a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.”

      She is on exactly the same page as Trump. A meeting of minds.

      Reply
  11. Andy C

     /  14th May 2019

    Nye For Planet Earth

    Reply

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