Documents reveal NZDF knew civilians were killed in SAS raid.

Documents previously kept secret by the NZ Defence Force with the support of the Ombudsman have now come out in advance of an inquiry.

NZ Herald:  Documents too secret to be seen – but now the inquiry into the NZSAS raid says they should be public

New documents have revealed NZDF had intelligence showing civilians were killed just days after the 2010 NZSAS raid which is now subject to a government inquiry.

The details are part of an extraordinary document dump previously blocked by NZDF with support from the Office of the Ombudsman.

The documents have emerged as the inquiry prepares for public hearings this week at which lawyers for the Afghan villagers – those people directly affected by the raid – will not appear. The lawyers representing the villagers had pulled out of the hearing after complaints sufficient funding is not available to properly represent them.

That’s as much as I can see, the rest is behind the paywall, but this seems to be a big deal.

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18 Comments

  1. Blazer

     /  20th May 2019

    no surprise here…people die when you…occupy.

    Reply
  2. Bill Brown

     /  20th May 2019

    War.

    Life’s a bitch.

    Civilian casualties are always a bi product.

    Sad. But true.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  21st May 2019

      But did a certain General say differently…Hager loves it when hes proved right after some of the fiercest rebuttals to his work are found to be complete lies.
      You will go back to the government ministers backing the army up..but always saying ‘Ive been advised…..

      Reply
      • NOEL

         /  21st May 2019

        Wonder what Hager feels when he is proved wrong? Didn’t say anything when their claim that a prisoner was ill treated was debunked.

        Reply
  3. Gezza

     /  21st May 2019

    It will be interesting to see what, if anything, further comes out of this. There seem to be a lot more civilian casualties in Afghanistan than anyone (& especially the US & its allies) ever properly admit to.

    While plenty of those civilian casualties have been victims – often deliberate – of straight out terrorist attacks by the Taliban, & ISIS, which is regularly operating there now, sod all seems to be done to investigate those civilian casualties caused by the Afghan government forces & their US & other allies.

    But US airstrikes have ramped up under Trump. The UN earlier this month reported that in the last 12 months (or it might have been so far this year) more civilian casualties have been caused by US airstrikes & Afghan government forces than by The Taliban & ISIS.

    And I read somewhere yesterday (possibly Stuff) that Trump is now seriously considering pardoning all US military personnel convicted of war crimes in their latest wars. So his attitude seems to be fk it, he doesn’t consider war crimes by yanks against any foreigners to be war crimes.

    Carte blanche for the American military to commit even more?

    Reply
  4. NOEL

     /  21st May 2019

    I’ll wait for the Commissions report to determine if there is any relevance to their book claims?

    Reply
  5. Civilians die all the time, the scandal is in the cover up. Integrity, a key value of the Army, has gone by the wayside in the desire to protect the “Sass” aka SAS from scrutiny. one of the SAS values is the “unrelenting pursuit of excellence”, I guess those that were on the ground have excelled at keeping their traps shut in order to protect their own jobs.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  21st May 2019

      Maybe the SAS realised they were in a no win situation. After all, it wouldn’t be trial by court- martial..it would be trial by social media..and the many anti-war toadies who have never really gone away?

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  21st May 2019

        It’s not the “anti-war toadies” who sucked the US & its “allies” into an unwinnable war in Afghanistan for the last 18 years, into a still-unstable Iraq, (which also spawned ISIS, into Syria, into creating still havoc in Libya, & which also provided fertile ground for ISIS and all the other affiliated Islamist terrorist groups like Al Shabab, Boko Haram, & the various Islamist terrorist groups, individuals, & cells, who’ve carried out terrorist attacks in various North & Central African countries, Egypt, Britain, France, Belgium, Indonesia, Sri Lanka etc ever since.

        Is it?

        It was the pro-war toadies who did that. And they still haven’t learned the lesson of unintended consequences. There are stlll idiots like Bolton champing at the bit to get the US to start more wars

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  21st May 2019

          True.. but service people didn’t start these wars. They are pawns for their political masters. Most service people want a career and on the whole believe they are making a difference.

          Also it must be remembered, the SAS is made up of nearly 50% Maori operators, so utu is a natural part of their psyche. The Maori Battalion was well known for not taking prisoners during WW2..and I doubt much has changed. So maybe things did get out of hand and needed sanitising?

          I believe that SAS also did a revenge raid in Indonesia.(?)

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  21st May 2019

            You’re letting your anti-Maori “utu” fixation carry you away again. All I want is for the facts to come out. It’s clear already the NZDF top command has tried to cover things up & that is consistent with the way the war in Afghanistan has been being conducted.

            As if things weren’t already bizarre enough the US is still involved as far as I’m aware with negotiations for the Taliban to become part of the government in Afghanistan. So the whole conflict appears to have been for absolutely nothing of any lasting value.

            And with Trump as POTUS anything can happen. He can go along with this idea & then suddenly change his mind whilst sitting on the bog with his cellphone. Trump hasn’t started any wars yet, but he’s certainly got a couple of hi-powered advisers showing every sign of wanting to do so.

            The guy seems to think he can solve political problems with business deals when plenty of his own business deals have been failures or at best shady.

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  21st May 2019

            ”You’re letting your anti-Maori “utu” fixation carry you away again. ”

            Not true. The facts speak otherwise..although in this case the facts will probably
            be never known.

            Are your anti Trump sentiments getting the better of you?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  21st May 2019

              No, I don’t think so, re Trump. He’s not a notably deep or consistent thinker. Lifelong reputaton as a narcissistic bully boy. Plenty of things he could screw up by not bothering with learning or caring about any practical details.

              Trump has made most of the world leery sbout anyndealsvor agreements with Trump’s America. In a way I think that’s a good thing because it is forcing the world to examine whether it’s a good idea to let the US continue to have so much control of the international finance & banking system & look for alternatives to prevent it waging punitive economic wars such as those Trump keeps starting.

              Re the SAS issue – what are the facts? Who commanded this SAS unit & how many were pakeha & how many Maori?

            • Gezza

               /  21st May 2019

              *anyndealsvor = any deals or

          • harryk

             /  21st May 2019

            Not a raid. After Manning’s death, in which pro integration militiamen had pursued fleeing NZBATT deeper into E.Timor, Fijians saved the day, a great embarrassment. NZBATT then killed an unarmed Indonesian soldier who’d unintentionally crossed the border. They also killed an armed pro integration militiaman who got lost returning to Indonesia after having been recalled. It was a dangerous period as pro-integration militia could have provoked NZBATT into a tit-for-tat cycle of Austronesian revenge.

            Reply
    • Duker

       /  21st May 2019

      The usual suspects and their ‘get in first ‘lies

      “The NZDF said they stood by their 2011 statement, and Key told Firstline that they had assured him no civilians were killed.”

      and then later
      ‘Former defence minister Wayne Mapp has admitted that SAS soldiers shot civilians but said this was a mistake and that they were moving in an “offensive formation”‘
      ( I suppose the claim the helicopter rounds ‘fell short – as they do’, didnt stack up, they are computer aimed system tied into infra red cameras)

      This week
      “New documents have revealed NZDF had intelligence, showing civilians were killed, just days after the 2010 NZSAS raid

      Reply

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