Oranga Tamariki a scapegoat for serious societal problems – our problems

As a number of people have said, Oranga Tamariki is damned if they do  take babies from mothers, but they are also damned if babies are left in the care of at risk families and are seriously harmed or killed.

It may be found that Oranga Tamariki can improve procedures around the ‘uplifting’ of babies – taking a baby from a mother should only be done if there are no other safe options for the baby, a last resort.

The ‘uplifting baby’ issue is an unfortunate symptom of serious societal problems.

A family lawyer writes:  The other side of the Oranga Tamariki baby uplift story

It’s hard watching, but it didn’t leave me wondering how Oranga Tamariki could be so cruel, or how the social worker could have made such an error of judgment, or why the family wasn’t given a chance to try, or how our legal system could allow such an injustice to happen.

I didn’t wonder, because I’m a family lawyer. Everyday I spend my 8.30 till 5  – but usually longer – dealing with the effects that drugs and alcohol, child abuse, domestic violence, neglect and poor choices have on our tamariki. I knew there’d be another side to that story, one the public won’t hear because everyone who could tell it is bound by court confidentiality.

New Zealand has the highest rates of reported domestic violence in the OECD, and Hawke’s Bay has the highest rates in New Zealand. Our rates of child abuse also leave us as an outlier among our OECD friends.

Domestic violence impacts either directly or indirectly on babies and children, and is a far bigger problem than uplifting babies (which is done to try to prevent harm).

Protection orders and domestic violence are the family lawyer’s bread and butter. There are few cases in which methamphetamine or violence isn’t an issue. We attempt to get parents to engage, and address the issues placing their children at risk. We fight every day for the children who do not get a say in their own welfare. Oranga Tamariki does this too.

The decision to uplift is never made by one person acting alone, or without professional consultation. It’s never made without genuine care and protection concerns.

Social workers and Oranga Tamariki almost certainly almost always have genuine care and protection concerns when mking decisions on the safety of babies.

Children must first come to the attention of Oranga Tamariki via a report of concern – schools, doctors, or people within the community are making these reports, which social workers are tasked with investigating. Attempts are made to engage with families. But if families refuse to engage, and concerns are substantiated, little choice is left for Oranga Tamariki.

In serious cases, a “without notice” application is made to the Family Court, for a decision on an uplift before the parents have a chance to be heard by the judge. An order without notice has to reach a very high threshold, so many things have to happen before that point.

I’d rather open the newspaper and read an article slamming Oranga Tamariki for getting it wrong than read yet again about a child being killed at the hands of the person tasked with keeping them safe. They’re the decisions Oranga Tamariki has to make on a daily basis – and they’re damned if they do, and damned if they don’t.

The current focus is on the procedures used by Oranga Tamariki in uplifting some babies, but…

The blame sits on all of our shoulders.

Oranga Tamariki has the job no-one else wants.

We should be asking ourselves what we can do to help address domestic violence, drugs and alcohol, and child abuse – regardless of a child’s bloodlines. If you are lucky enough to not be faced with these issues, you are privileged and you have a duty to use that privilege to help those without.

Drug reform? More supportive live-in facilities for new parents? More stopping violence education? Further Māori education? I don’t know the magic answer, but I urge you: instead of jumping on the  “Oranga Tamariki is wrong” bandwagon, have a think about how you can become an ally to improve our culture for the sake of our children.

A culture is created on the actions and intentions of a society. A society creates a culture, and a society can therefore recreate it.

It’s easy to sit back and criticise others, and too think that domestic violence, all violence in society, isn’t our problem, it’s something we can blame on others.

But uplifting babies, and babies being hurt and killed, is just one of the worst aspects of a sick society that we are all a part of.

Domestic violence can be physical, and it can also be verbal (thee two are usually associated).

Online violence is ‘just’ verbal – but there is a lot of verbal abuse on online forums, there are frequent personal attacks. There is a lot of vile and violent behaviour online. This can normalise abuse and violence, that can affect the use of violence in the physical world.

Confronting online abuse and violence must play a part in confronting societal abuse and violence – but it can be bloody difficult. Online abusers tend to react badly to having their behaviour challenged and criticised. They tend to attack anyone who questions their behaviour – I know this from ten years of experience confronting online abuse.

And when other people see this happening I’m sure it deters them from doing likewise and challenging abusive behaviour.

This also happens in the offline world.

It’s easier to lash out and blame social workers and Oranga Tamariki.

Uplifting babies and interfering in families can be a very emotional issue – but so is domestic abuse and violence, for many more babies and children.

Drug abuse, alcohol abuse, violence – these are the core problems that lead to many other societal problems.

Societal problems need society solutions. Blaming others is not a solution. We all have to take some responsibility. Society is made up of many attitudes and actions, which we all contribute to.

I’m not a violent person, but I feel a responsibility to do something about violent and abusive behaviour.  I think we should all be thinking about how we can make our society safer for babies, for children, for all of us.

The famaiy lawyer says:

I don’t know the magic answer, but I urge you: instead of jumping on the  “Oranga Tamariki is wrong” bandwagon, have a think about how you can become an ally to improve our culture for the sake of our children.

Leave a comment

65 Comments

  1. Reply
    • The people who had to rely on pen and ink in the past wouldn’t be able to believe the good luck of their descendants who just have to go online to send threats and anonymous letters. The phone must have been a marvellous gift to such people, too, as it still is.

      Reply
  2. Pickled Possum

     /  19th June 2019

    Well said family lawyer. Social workers have the worst job. Apathy is the biggest killer in NZ .

    Reply
    • They do indeed PP

      From what I know there is another problem facing our beleaguered Social Workers in child protection services, specifically those charged with child placement. With the no need to name a father (and this will become more common now there no fiscal penalty) there is an unintended consequence. That is, there a fifty percent reduction in the family group pool they can call on to support a child who needs to be taken from a parent. If a father isn’t named, clearly his family cannot be included in a legal placement possibility. As Oranga Tamariki cannot give a child to anyone with a criminal record or anyone who has had a problem with Social Services, I understand there are very, very slim pickings in many whanau.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  19th June 2019

        I would guess that the reason for not naming is so that the father won’t have to pay child support and the taxpayer will have the privilege…but, as you say, that will have this consequence, that his family (who could well be excellent foster ‘parents’ ) won’t have the chance.

        Own goal, Labour.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  19th June 2019

          I can’t agree that people are generally apathetic, but it’s all but impossible to know how on earth the rest of us can possibly prevent child abuse by people whom we have never met. Dismissing this as apathy doesn’t help. I don’t believe that people are apathetic when it comes to child abuse, but as we can’t stop strangers doing it behind closed doors, it’s hard to know what we could do about it.

          Reply
          • PICKLED POSSUM

             /  20th June 2019

            kitcat I didn’t say the public was apathetic I wrote Apathy is the biggest killer.

            Read this story
            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=141578

            and then tell me that all the professionals who had contact with James weren’t apathetic. From the plunket police doctors to his family neighbours friends etc everybody knew something wasn’t right but choose to ignore it, all just plain unconcerned about a little boy who had his life cut short by an asshole and an apathetic lot.

            Despite Haerewa already having served a jail term for beating James when he was two, the abuse continued regularly upon his release. Till James died aged 4.

            The killer Ben Haerewa is today on bail waiting to be sentenced on more child and female violent assault charges. Sentencing on 19th Oct 2019
            I sincerely hope he gets preventive detention
            http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0009/latest/DLM136454.html

            Since Nia Glassie was murdered 12years ago more than 100 children have died whats changed. sfa

            I have come across many rape victims who become pregnant and don’t know the name let alone what the father looks like.
            Children being fathered by family are another reason why there is Father unknown on the birth cert.
            Woman getting away from a violent partner is another.
            If a father doesn’t want his name on the birth cert then he doesn’t deserve to be a father.

            Reply
            • I should have said one reason, not THE reason, but there are no penalties for not revealing the name of a rapist, violent ex and so on. The penalty was for the reason I gave and I can’t see that the father should not have to contribute anything.

              I once read a letter to an advice column from a girl who’d been raped (by someone she knew) and become pregnant. She was going to keep the baby or had kept it, I forget which, and the ‘father’ had found out about it. He was now demanding that he be given his child and being quite threatening about it. The young mother was assured that he had no chance at all of taking the baby and told where to go for help if he tried anything.

        • Duker

           /  20th June 2019

          In this case ,the father is known as she is in a relationship with him ( and previously had a baby removed)
          I dont know the details but Im thinking with his gang connections, that maybe he has convictions for violence against women and maybe children?

          Reply
          • I don’t believe that there was apathy in this case, Possum; apathy means indifference, lack of feeling….people in those professions are unlikely to be like that.

            James was supposed to be with his grandmother where he was safe.

            Reply
        • Duker

           /  20th June 2019

          Ever watched that local TV program Lost and Found.
          Without a DNA test a father cant be sure with young women of a certain age. While men can be matter of fact about multiple partners, cultural taboos mean women have to give the appearance of only ‘one partner at a time’.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  20th June 2019

            No, I don’t watch L & F.

            You know the old saying about it being mother’s baby, father’s maybe. A man who’s cuckolded tends to be regarded with contempt, most unfairly. It was ages before I understood the reference in Shakespeare to ‘sound(ing) a recheat in’s forehead’ and why this had Elizabethan audiences falling off their seats,

            I read a very sad story about a young couple in the UK who found out by chance that they had the same father. They immediately broke off the engagement and separated but couldn’t stop loving each other. She had been pregnant but lost the baby and couldn’t help wondering if this was because they were half-brother and sister.

            I felt very sorry for the children of the woman who was protesting about the unreasonableness of WINZ expecting her to know who the fathers of her children were….jeez, it was ( ) years ago, how could she remember who she’d been with that far back ? One was 6 years ago, I think.

            Reply
  3. Griff.

     /  19th June 2019

    What happens when a child dies from abuse are those attacking Oranga Tamariki going to take responsibility ?
    Nai Glassie Moko Rangitoheriri and many many others paid the ultimate cost. Others live on with horrific scars from years of abuse and go on to perpetrate abuse on further generations.

    Taking a child from a dysfunctional parent and placing it within a wider dysfunctional whanau is often from the frying pan into a fire .

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  20th June 2019

      Moko was left with a friend of the parents while his mother stayed with a seriously illl child at Starship, she had no reason to suppose that the ‘ friend’ and her boyfri would do anything like this.

      Reply
  4. MaureenW

     /  19th June 2019

    “New Zealand has the highest rates of reported domestic violence in the OECD, and Hawke’s Bay has the highest rates in New Zealand. Our rates of child abuse also leave us as an outlier among our OECD friends.”

    The above statement says it all. New Zealand’s rate of child and domestic abuse is shameful. Much of it is from poor inter-generational breeding and child raising practices. We’ve all seen it, but not allowed to speak its name.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  19th June 2019

      It’s unfortunate that some things are classed as domestic violence when they are not, like a raised voice or pushing past someone. This weakens the whole idea of it, as classing a leery look as sexual assault trivialises genuine sexual assault.

      One headline claimed that (the usual 1 in 4, I think) children had witnessed domestic violence in the last year. This included shouting. How many people have never raised their voice in anger or annoyance ? Tell someone who’s been beaten up that having a noisy argument is the same as that.

      Reply
      • Surely no one seriously thinks that raising your voice to someone is as bad as beating them up or that leering is as bad as rape. It would seem that three people do. Ask anyone who’s been beaten until they were unconscious or the parents of someone like the young woman who was so infatuated with ‘Dion’ that she had a large tattoo on her face saying that she was his property if they think so. Dion didn’t just shout at his possession or push past her, he beat her to death.

        No rape victim (or even someone who’s been on the receiving end of a serious attempt) would think that it was no worse than a leer.

        Reply
        • MaureenW

           /  19th June 2019

          You need to get out more Kitty, I’ve witnessed yelling that is as terrifying as physical violence. Terrifying for women and terrifying for children.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  20th June 2019

            I have witnessed that, too, and been on the receiving end; I said a raised voice, not yelling and threats. Don’t tell me I need to get out more.

            I have also, as it happens, been on the receiving end of domestic violence. I have been hit, kicked, had my head banged against a door post, hit with objects and been almost strangled (attempted murder). I have been in a car with a driver who was threatening and beginning to drive into oncoming traffic or go off the road.

            This sounds like Jake the Muss, but my then partner was a middle-class man from a family of professionals, an old boy of one of NZ’s most prestigious schools, brother of a famous academic and an equally famous lawyer. He was a PhD, worked for Foreign Affairs, was a university lecturer, an actor….no wonder I was incredulous that this fascinating man was interested in the then 18 or 19 year old me. Why was he still single in his 30s ?

            I soon found out.

            Don’t tell me that I need to get out more or assume that I am naive about these things.

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  23rd June 2019

            Tautoko, Maureen. Sitting on a veranda slurping lemonade is a poor substitute for real world experience. Commenting to the nth degree on inanities and inconsequential points without ever getting to hub of the issue is another annoyance. I solved that problem by moving on.👍

            Reply
  5. PartisanZ

     /  19th June 2019

    Tau toko family lawyer. This isn’t an either/or situation. It’s a situation full of challenges, opportunities and, above all, possibilities for genuine social improvement and development.

    Also, why does everyone put drug abuse ahead of alcohol abuse nowadays? The biggest drug problem by far in Aotearoa New Zealand is and always has been alcohol. The ‘infamous’ 79/70 road fatality stat has been debunked. 70 fatalities in 2017 were due to drivers over the limit. Another 84 were caused by under the limit drivers. The figure is 154 alcohol/79 drugs (often combined with alcohol). – source RNZ 19 Feb 2019

    Interesting commentary on this Oranga Tamariki subject from Anahera Herbert-Graves (Ngati Kahu) in yesterday’s Northland Age, entitled ‘A misnamed ministry’, viz “There are some brilliant individuals working for the state and the ministry, but they can’t effect the necessary change, which is for government to cede control of the Maori tax take to our own governing body(ies), get on with curing its own racism, and get out of our way”

    Her column is well worth a read if you can access it.

    Also Aaron Smale on Newsroom this morning, “Like its Siamese twin the media, the politicians are always playing to an audience and that audience is the white middle class.

    Tracey Martin’s main concern when she traveled to Hawke’s Bay was not the Māori whānau her ministry was harming. It was the harm Newsroom’s documentary was doing to her reputation in the eyes of the white middle class public.

    That white middle class public finally caught a glimpse, albeit fleeting, of the kind of persecution of poor Māori whānau that has been going on for several generations now. That glimpse was a dissonant experience for those viewers, but it is nothing new for too many Māori.”

    He finishes, “But more broadly, until Māori under economic pressure are enabled to participate in the wealth this country has to offer, this conversation will be on a constant, repetitive loop with no end in sight. Māori will continue to be perceived as a problem, an inconvenient political nuisance that occasionally makes life uncomfortable for politicians while the rest of the country carries on apathetically.”

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/06/19/641770/aaron-smale-the-maori-problem

    One-off comment … Ѱ

    Reply
    • Does he back up this rhetoric with anything concrete, or is it all straw men and generalisations ?

      Reply
    • Griff.

       /  20th June 2019

      ,

      which is for government to cede control of the Maori tax take to our own governing body(ies), get on with curing its own racism, and get out of our way”

      The hand out for money.
      If you actually look into it with out your brown blinkers on you will find that Maori use social services at a far higher rate than the rest of us. It would mean a large tax increase for maori to fund their own social services and a modest tax decrease for the rest of us to fund the remainder.
      50% of justice along with a similar ratio for welfare and even a unproportional percentage of hospital care costs are spent on the 14% of the population identifying a maori.

      until Māori under economic pressure are enabled to participate in the wealth this country has to offer,

      You will find there is nothing stopping Maori participating in the wealth of this country besides not participating in a culture that creates wealth .
      Many maori get out into the wider world and succeed on their own merits. Our governing body, parliament has more maori blood than the population a large.
      The vast majority of successful maori refuse to stay mired in and identify with the maori culture of failure that holds a large proportion down.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  21st June 2019

      I’m sorry, Parti. Maori have had decades to put their appalling child abuse problem to bed. They have failed miserably and now want more taxpayer money to make things right. It is not a money problem – it’s a paucity of individual responsibility, leading to a dysfunctional social community that is the problem.

      I want OT to take as many Maori babies as they can lay their hands on. You have to remember the real problem isn’t Maori babies bashed or killed. They are just the tip of a iceberg. The real problem is simply Maori kids who are neglected. Neither bashed nor loved…they are simply invisible. Nobody cares.

      That said, even Family First have a problem with OT, especially around alleged smacking cases. Bob McCoskrie has suggested an overview organisation that reviews each child removal case…and provides a place where families can go to protest against any state intervention by putting their case forward. Similar to the Police Complaints Authority.

      I think that’s a good idea. It cuts Maori out of having undue influence concerning the removal of Maori babies. And that’s the path we are heading down with Maori having a major say regarding the taking children into state care. That will cost more lives.

      Reply
      • MaureenW

         /  21st June 2019

        I’ve seen it first hand and you are right on.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  21st June 2019

          The problem Maureen is, how do you explain the indescribable to people who have not seen such situations first hand? People who have no frame of reference to understand such situations.

          Mum and dad rooting on the bed while kids go in and out. The toilet full of faeces,some on the floor. A bro with a P-pipe sharing it with others in the living room.
          A sheila getting the bash outside because she paid a bill or bought food instead of paying off drug ”ticks’ first.

          Do you ever wish you hadn’t seen that type of stuff first hand? I do sometimes. Ignorance is bliss, so they say.When another baby is killed I could do with some of that bliss.

          Reply
          • The quote you mean is ‘Where ignorance is bliss/Tis folly to be wise.’ Pope did not mean that igorance per se is bliss. It obviously isn’t.

            You must know some odd people if you see this in houses you frequent. Do you take any action ?

            To remove as Maori babies as possible because of the appalling minority would be impossible and a great injustice.

            Family First find a level of violence towards children that would see the doer in court if they did it to an adult, especially a woman, not only acceptable but desirable as discipline. To most people, the two are not synonymous.

            Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  21st June 2019

        Corky, I’m not convinced Maori have a monopoly on child abuse simply because they are Maori. Look deeper and you will find deadbeat parents locked into an endless inter-generational cycle of hopelessness and abuse

        I see it more as a socio-demographic where most (not all) children born into an environment of poverty, hopelessness, joblessness and abuse will just go on to keep the cycle alive. Not all because some are lucky enough to encounter a key influencer in their journey

        Raise a Maori child as mine were, in a loving, protective environment, and they are highly unlikely to feature in these stats. On the contrary…

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  21st June 2019

          Given that child and domestic abuse is international, you are likely to be right.

          Corky might have a point if all Maori children were abused, which they are not. All As are Bs, ergo all Bs are As is false logic. X% of abused children being Maori does not equate to X% of Maori children being abused.

          I wonder how he reconciles his views with his supposedly being half-Maori himself and having an enormous whanau.

          Reply
        • Corky

           /  21st June 2019

          ”Corky, I’m not convinced Maori have a monopoly on child abuse simply because they are Maori.”

          For sure. However, I concentrate on Maori for two reasons. They are statistically-abuse wise- way out of kilter for their population demographic. And the other reason is I have personal experience with how feral Maori live. I don’t need to read reports, listen to academics or Maori apologists. I know what I have seen with my two eyes.

          ”Raise a Maori child as mine were, in a loving, protective environment, and they are highly unlikely to feature in these stats. On the contrary…”

          That’s it in a nutshell. And that can only start within Maoridom. The problem is some Maori are running around crying ”racism.” And the media believe them

          Reply
          • Conspiratoor

             /  21st June 2019

            Corky, I do agree throwing more money in the trough is never going to solve the underlying problem. So what is the solution?

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  21st June 2019

              A little short for time , so I will do drips and drabs. Pete did me a favour by
              cutting down the time I spend on blogs. I get so much more done in the real world.

              This solution would require losing a generation to get things started.

              And it starts with welfare. The common denominator with many of the kids murdered is mums on the DPB. All women applying for the DPB would only be able to claim for one child support. They would have these choices:

              1- Compulsory birth control ( preferred option).
              2- Abortion.
              3- Adoption.
              4- Voluntary Sterilisation.

              Such a regime would have saved over half the kids murdered so far, simply because they wouldn’t have been born. Also, the leeching boyfriend would move on. One child DPB support makes for a lousy drug and booze fund.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  21st June 2019

              Corky, at the risk of being labelled a nitpucker probably more drib than drip but in general i agree. Best to place the ambo at the top of the cliff and intervene before rather than later.
              You want to continue to enjoy the largess of the taxpayer, just present yourself every three months with a cert from your gp as proof youve had a depo shot. Simple, effective and life saving

            • This doesn’t take into account the children in houses where the UB is the main source of income.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  21st June 2019

              Is Corky’s niece one of the ‘ferals’ he describes ? She’s Maori and on the DPB, after all.

            • Corky

               /  22nd June 2019

              Another solution would be compulsory reeducation for kids who refuse to go to school ( a huge problem in NZ). A one year course teaching the basics of life. Things we take for granted.

              1- The importance of flushing the toilet and washing your hands.
              2- Why bills must be paid.
              3- Learning not to take offence at any trivial slights. Learning that while bashing someone may bring short term satisfaction…long term it will do way more harm than good for your life.
              4- Learning what a knife and fork and plate are. Understanding why shops have tong..etc.

              This course will have nothing to do with job prospects, but more to do with understanding how the normal world works and being able to operate in that world.

              As for those who refuse, I can’t see any alternative but state care. Make it tough so the one year course will look the better option.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  21st June 2019

            Most people do see the need to read reports and not rely solely on what they have seen themselves which is limited to a small circle unless the person knows everyone in NZ.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  22nd June 2019

              I sincerely hope that if Corky did see the things he claims, like the public sex and bashings that he did something about them.

            • PICKLED POSSUM

               /  26th June 2019

              Ah, Apathy!! It is no respecter of persons Miss.
              Some people think if they repeat adnauseum what they saw …
              things might change by just repeating the offences.
              You know how it is generational in some peoples lives.
              Now we know why!!
              NO kaumatua to lead them to the promised land.
              I have seen kaumatua rock on their paepae …
              pointing at this one and that one saying “they gonna go to jail”
              Look at them!!
              No need to tell them that tho, the children going down the dark tomo.
              Will this kaumatua say “Don’t have sex in front of your children and hands are for loving awhiawhi”
              Apparently NOT!

            • Corky

               /  26th June 2019

              Chur, Chur, Chur. I have given possible solution to problem. Others haven’t. Let’s hear your suggestions PP.

              ”Will this kaumatua say “Don’t have sex in front of your children.”

              Well, at least you got that right. Another poster called it ”public sex” 😃

            • PartisanZ

               /  26th June 2019

              Boot camp … or concentration camp … you choose bro? … Sis?

              The choices as I see it are –

              – A society that attempts to ameliorate, correct or remove the root causes of social problems … cure the dis-ease itself … or …

              – A society that is forever adding more ambulances, more attempts to treat, medicate or mask the results and poor outcomes of social problems … the symptoms

              Of course its not that simple, not quite EITHER//OR … but to exaggerate for effect … like you do Corky.

            • Corky

               /  26th June 2019

              First point to understand when you have a problem, Parti…stop the problem escalating; get it under control. Once that is achieved, by all means introduce the ”other ” rehabilitation options.

              Notice my options are voluntary? Women have choices. If they want my money to live on, there will be certain conditions attached to that option.
              Any woman has the right to say ”stick your benefit,” I’m going to escort and earn way more money than you benefit.

              That’s fine.

              Of course, my course for truants isn’t optional. Why should it be? These kids should be at school anyway.

              For the life of me I can’t understand why you consider these options morally and inherently wrong.

  6. NOEL

     /  19th June 2019

    The thought provoking program with the Ministry hovering over the mother because they had told the Judge that they had uplifted the child when they had not, really does demand and independent investigation. Not a Ministry review to remain out of reach of Joe Public.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  20th June 2019

      Oh please… thats armchair admirals deciding events after they happened…in the comfort of their home or office.

      Reply
  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  19th June 2019

    They are not our problems, they are our Government’s problems because it takes our money ostensibly to deal with them but in fact mostly makes them worse.

    These human problems can only be fixed at the individual level by direct mentoring and support to remediate the good parenting the individuals never got and the destructive peer pressures they get incessantly.

    So long as socialists delude themselves that our money and their bureaucrats can do that nothing will change.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  20th June 2019

      Yes , the 40th investigation/review of Oranga Tamariki/CYPS/Child welfare etc over the years….. they all say the same …. under resourced…low training… high turnover….. ever increasing workload..
      what makes you think it will be any different this time

      Reply
  8. Kitty Catkin

     /  20th June 2019

    How do I stop every comment appearing in my inbox ? I accidentally clicked on this and now can’t see how to undo it.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  20th June 2019

      Helpful answer, PDT, about what one would expect from you.

      Reply
  9. Corky

     /  25th June 2019

    Another baby allegedly bashed. The mother had already had five children removed from her care. I think we could profile this case with a high probability of getting most facts right.
    I wonder if the case will make the news on TV tonight.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  25th June 2019

      Yep, nothing on One News from what I have seen. I guess such a narrative would support OT in their quest to remove babies from deadbeat parents.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  30th June 2019

        The toddler is now dead. Let’s hope TV ups its coverage tonight. Sadly, this couldn’t have come at better time for OT.

        Reply
  10. PartisanZ

     /  25th June 2019

    Seems there is some good reason after all for our so-called ‘Anti-smacking law’ –

    ‘Mum jailed over ‘psychologically butchering’ three daughters’ – NZ Herald

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12243775

    But who wins from a situation like this? The mother clearly has alcoholism, drug addiction and violence problems – which she’s attempting to address – and is a survivor of abuse herself … but she’s going to prison, which is likely to negate her own efforts, so ‘society’ can exact its [our] pitiful revenge upon her …

    Corky, Conspiratoor and others believe a suitable ambulance at the top of the cliff is enforced birth control or sterilization … That’s some kinda fence … electrified barbed-wire and razor-wire, searchlights and armed guards … We could just have WINZ or OT drones watching them all the time (after they’ve been tested in the Incredible Skies Ltd privatized Hokianga airspace)

    I’m most aligned to Alan’s “mentoring” proposal except for that word “individual”, which presumably exempts the idea from being called “socialist”? It also makes it automatically assimilative for many Maori, who just don’t operate that way.

    Why don’t we face facts, its a social problem therefore any remedy is essentially social-ist. I don’t see how it can be privatized, except it already has been in some ways … corporatized.

    Why not “communal” mentoring. Whanau, hapu, marae, papakainga mentoring? Intentional community or ‘family of choice’ mentoring … It actually goes on all the time … informally …

    One thing you can guarantee we’re not going to do is address some of the underlying causes … our colonial inheritance, institutional or everyday racism, inequality and iniquity …

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  25th June 2019

      It’s both social and individual since the family/ peers/community are damaging the individual. It would be great if the family/peers/community could be fixed but it simply seems harder than fixing the individual. You are right though to infer that fixing the individual does mean disentangling them from the destructive social tentacles that are destroying them. In most cases that will mean breaking relationships but maybe one or three will come with the individual on the new and better life and journey. You can call that assimilation but I don’t think that is necessarily true. The individuals will still have their ancestral heritage but may see it through different eyes and translate it differently into their lives and future.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  26th June 2019

        I think its disingenuous and absurd to say the family/peers/community – by which I think you mean the whanau/hapu/iwi – are damaging the individual without acknowledging that the wider community/society/political-economy isn’t damaging them as well …

        This is the same kaupapa as the ‘youth training programs’ our illustrious dullard MP Matt King was crowing about in David Fischer’s ‘Desolation of Kaikohe’ article. Remove the children from their “deprived communities”, train them in ‘hospitality’ over in Paihia (to serve our Chinese/American masters), then provide them low-wage employment in ‘resort towns’ elsewhere so their families can’t “drag them back down” …

        It’s so simple and easy. So “cost effective”. So ‘productive & efficient’. No need to do anything about the “deprived communities”, devastated by neglect since Rogerednomics … (I live in one and know a young person who this got done to) … and no need to do anything about the family dysfunction (which happens to various degrees everywhere else as well) …

        Hands-up those who haven’t experienced some family dysfunction?

        Anyhow, this ‘removal’ is a sure-fire, Bluer-than-Blue recipe for reviving and rejuvenating “deprived communities” if ever I did see one … Take away the very people who could revive the community!

        You’re talking about a kind of ‘personalized’, psychological version of the Maori Land Court … “individual title” …. Maori te hinengaro Court …

        It might suit some … And if it does I guess that’s fine … If they choose it … but does it encompass the forgotten part of the freedom equation … “the maximum regard for the life and freedom of every other”?

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  26th June 2019

          I prefer the possible to the impossible.

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  26th June 2019

            You are correct in a sense … It looks very much like it’s impossible for the essentially Pakeha system to change …

            And of the many papakainga and intentional communities around Aotearoa New Zealand – iwi and tauiwi – already succeeding on this ‘front’ and numerous others, we shall not hear a word (bar extreme exceptions like Gloriavale).

            That’s a good thing by the way. It’s a bit like the enormous medicinal cannabis community … these things only succeed under our present assimilative, prescriptive system by flying under the radar.

            Reply
  1. Oranga Tamariki a scapegoat for serious societal problems – our problems — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition

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