General strike 4 climate in Aotearoa

A strike or protest against inaction over climate change is planned around the country today.

The Spinoff:  General strike for climate: everything you need to know

What and when?

The School Strike 4 Climate movement has invited people of all ages to a nationwide strike today. More than 40 rallies and marches are planned around the country and upwards of 90 businesses, including The Spinoff, have committed to downing tools and joining the movement.

In Auckland, protestors will gather at noon at Aotea Square.

Hamilton protestors are meeting at Civic Square at 1pm.

In Tauranga, it’s a 12pm start at the south end of The Strand.

Wellington protestors are meeting at 11am at Civic Square ahead of a march on parliament.

In Christchurch, protestors will gather at 1pm in Cathedral Square.

Dunedin’s strike kicks off at 12pm outside the Dental School ahead of  a march to the Octagon.

Events are also planned in Whangārei, Lower Hutt, Dunsandel, Porirua, Greymouth, Golden Bay, Thames, Whanganui, Foxton, Nelson, Kāpiti, Hawke’s Bay, Alexandra, New Plymouth, Timaru, Whakatāne, Gisborne, Great Barrier Island, Palmerston North, Invercargill, Kaitaia, Kerikeri, Marlborough, Taupō, Motueka, Karamea, Coromandel, Opunake, Rotorua, Opononi and Wānaka. In Oamaru, Forest and Bird and the Waitaki Girls’ High School Environment Club will be planting trees after school at Cape Wanbrow.

School Strike 4 Climate NZ’s Sophie Handford said opening the strike to workers and employers strengthened the movement and diversified their base.

Newsroom – Uni scientists: Why we’re marching for climate action

Professor Quentin Atkinson from the School of Psychology studies the evolution of language and human cultures. He has contributed to a book on how New Zealanders can tackle climate change and is founder of climate action group Claxon

What troubles me most about the climate crisis is the profligate insanity of the whole thing. The stakes could not be higher. Livelihoods lost. Lives lost. Species gone forever. Real threats to our planet’s life support systems. Positive feedback loops like dieback of the Amazon rainforest or methane released from thawing permafrost causing truly scary runaway climate change. And these warnings are coming not from some lunatic or charlatan, but from hundreds of scientists, the best minds in the world, paid to question every assumption and temper every conclusion. Indeed, climate change is hitting sooner and harder than they initially predicted.

Dr Brendon Dunphy from the School of Biological Sciences studies the metabolic strategies animals employ to adapt to environmental change and potential effects of climate change on seabirds, fish and invertebrates

It’s a struggle to capture the complexity of what I feel as I fluctuate daily between outright despondency to a more pragmatic “Right, let’s get on with solving it”. However, it is one unimpressive number that really captures me…3mm. A small number, but 3mm is the annual sea level rise attributed to climate change we are currently seeing.

It’s a slow march. From talking with people, I get a sense that the thinking is one day we simply won’t wake up, that we will have undergone a cataclysm that sterilizes the planet of life. But it won’t be like that. It will occur slowly, but surely, in increments of 3mm per year. The struggle I have as a parent is trying to alleviate the anxiety my children have for their future. However, I remain positive that we will respond…there’s no other choice.

Professor Shaun Hendy from the Department of Physics is a physicist and science commentator whose book #NoFly: Walking the Talk on Climate Change will be published next month. He is director of the centre for research excellence, Te Pūnaha Matatini

The discovery that fossil fuel emissions are heating the planet is one of science’s greatest achievements. The scientific detective work that led to this discovery was a collective effort, built on the inquiry and insight of many minds, over many decades. For the first time in human history perhaps, we are not only able to see centuries into our future, we also know how our actions will shape that future. Despite this we have struggled mightily to decide how to use this knowledge. While we must each take responsibility for reducing our own carbon footprints as best we are able, it is only by acting together that we will avoid dangerous climate change.

Professor Niki Harre from the School of Psychology studies the human drive to participate in the common good. Her books The Infinite Game: How to Live Well Together and Psychology for a Better World: Working with People to Save the Planet, were published in 2018

For well over a decade I’ve been aware the climate change threat is my problem. Along with other citizens of industrialised nations, I live within social systems damaging to the ecology of our planet and it is up to us to change those systems. I am marching to show I will accept whatever is required for an effective response. This includes more limited, expensive travel options; government-backed insurance for people with homes vulnerable to sea level rise; creating employment for those whose income-stream is not viable in a climate friendly society. I am not asking others to bear the cost of these changes,

I am also prepared for a significant rise in my taxes to support transition that protects the wellbeing of all. I am not afraid of reduced access to material goods and consumer experiences. I am afraid of a world where people are pitted against one another in a scramble to survive in a harsh environment. I want to live in a world that brings out the best in us – pulling together and focusing on what really matters.

Professor Richard Easther is Head of the Department of Physics and a leading theoretical cosmologist who is a regular commentator on science issues and science research

Our nervous systems respond quickly to clear and present danger — the clench in the gut if we see a child at risk of harm and our instant response. As a physicist and astronomer I know why carbon dioxide traps heat, and why we can’t blame the sun for increasing temperatures: I can follow the math and appreciate the complexity of the data. But it is still more head than heart.

For most adults, climate adaptation is like saving for retirement — present desires often take priority. But if the detached perspective of adulthood is “mature”, the flipside is that kids do a better job of appreciating the urgency climate change deserves. The students I interact with are smart, articulate, thoughtful, committed and passionate – and my strongest emotional response is admiration for the commitment and composure of the kids participating in the climate strikes.

And that’s why I’ll be marching.

RNZ:  Climate change report underlines sea level rise threat

The latest international climate report sends a stark message about the fundamental importance of the world’s oceans, a New Zealand scientist says.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Special Report revealed the clearest information to date on the future of the planet’s oceans and frozen regions, and the price civilisation will pay if there is not urgent action.

“Changes that have been under way in these systems imperil the health and wellbeing on life on this earth. It’s a pretty stark message for us to listen to and to act on,” Massey University professor Bruce Glavovic said.

Prof Glavovic, one of more than 100 authors from 36 countries who worked on the report, said sea level rise was an immediate and real issue, not a problem for future generations to worry about.

“Importantly it’s not going to stop. Even if we stop greenhouse gas emissions tomorrow sea levels will continue to rise for centuries.”

Global sea levels are rising at 3.6mm a year, more than twice as fast than during the 20th century, the report said.

Even if greenhouse gas emissions were greatly reduced and global warming is limited to well below 2C, sea level rise could still reach 30-60cm by 2100. That would increase to 60-110cm if greenhouse gas emissions continue to strongly increase.

Prof Glavovic said if any country should be concerned it was New Zealand, with 90 percent of the population living within about 10km of the seashore.

“The struggle for sustainability is essentially going to be won or lost in the boardrooms in the communities in the government offices in the cities and towns of our coastlines.”

Newsroom – IPCC: Ocean’s future depends on emissions

The ocean has protected us from experiencing even worse effects from global warming, but changes to fisheries, coasts and cyclones are beginning to bite. What happens next depends on us, says the latest IPCC special report.

The state of the ocean will enter “unprecedented territory” this century, and it will take an unprecedented social transformation to stop things getting worse from there, according to the latest IPCC special report.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s Special Report on the Ocean and Cryosphere is out, drawing on more than 6,000 studies, reviewed and synthesised by a panel of 104 scientists from 36 countries.

The fate of the Antarctic ice sheet and the Southern Ocean – two areas of intense research and monitoring by New Zealanders – feature heavily in the report’s gloomier findings, regarding ocean heating around Antarctica and the potential for surprise runaway ice melt.

The report’s key messages are that we’ve already locked in significant changes to ocean levels, cyclones, fish stocks, glaciers and beaches, but we can avoid more extreme changes by acting fast. That would require “unprecedented” social change, though.

It’s hard to ignore the the overwhelming numbers of scientists and growing number of people warning and demanding more action climate change.

Naysayers will keep naysaying, but they are now losing the PR battle. The tides of science and opinion are rising against them.

The question is not whether we have climate change, it is how bad the effects could be.

The question is not whether we should we do anything about it, but how much we should do and how quickly.

And what we do will generally benefit us and our planet regardless of the extent of climate change and how much we manage to minimise the effects.

One way or another this will affect all of us.

 

Leave a comment

114 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  27th September 2019

    ”Naysayers will keep naysaying, but they are now losing the PR battle. The tides of science and opinion are rising against them.”

    Yes, we are losing the PR battle…but not the science. I believe truth will prevail in the end. I therefore must thank Magic Radio for having scientists on most days to explain climate theory and why some climate science is skewered. They broke the science down so average Joe’s will have a decent understanding of how this scam works using ‘quack science.’

    Meanwhile I will watch the crazies march today. Full of emotion, these nuts will emote in bucket loads to similarly ignorant reporters who shove a microphone in their faces:

    ” My dog Rusty was killed in a bushfire. That fire mightn’t have happened if methane from cows farting had not built up in the atmosphere. Someone also told me before the march that
    dihydrogen monoxide vapour is the major cause of climate change. I don’t know why they were laughing..this isn’t a laughing matter.”😂😂😂

    A nation of idiots lead by an idiot ( in my opinion).

    Reply
    • “Yes, we are losing the PR battle…but not the science’

      You’re losing the science by a long way.

      Reply
      • I think Corky forgot the #sarc tag to his comment.

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  27th September 2019

        Not true, Pete. We are losing the science consensus war driven by fear, funding and scientists too scared to backtrack; who have sold out the ideals of what science should stand for. Science should not stand for ill informed scaremongering with a price tag attached.

        Reply
        • “driven by fear, funding and scientists too scared to backtrack; who have sold out the ideals of what science should stand for”

          I haven’t seen any evidence of that, just unsubstantiated claims.

          “Science should not stand for ill informed scaremongering”

          That’s a bit ironic.

          There are some who may be putting too much emphasis on worst case (or towards worst case) scenarios, and that isn’t helpful, as it does give opponents scope to criticise.

          But the middle case scenarios are bad enough – and because of the uncertainty of some of the science and the modelling things could as easily end up getting worse than moderate predictions as not as bad, something opponents don’t seem to accept (they tend to promote no case only).

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  27th September 2019

            Judith Curry actually believes humans are warming the planet. But when she disagrees by how much…..?

            https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060047798

            Did you hear this mentioned in mainstream media, Pete?

            https://www.europereloaded.com/500-climate-scientists-write-to-un-there-is-no-climate-emergency/

            Funny this…a year ago I couldn’t miss finding cases of scientists dismissed because of climate change scepticism. Now all I can find is links to Trump cutting finding to climate change believing scientists. That’s a good thing..but what happened to the other links? Still, I found one.

            https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/sep/06/peter-ridd-awarded-12m-in-unfair-dismissal-case-against-james-cook-university

            Let’s finish with some alarmist headlines.

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/116100053/sea-walls-protecting-new-zealand-cities-are-losing-their-battle-with-the-ocean-un-report-warns

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  27th September 2019

              The problem with Trump, as usual, is his complete ignorance, or his willigness to only listen to Big Money corporates & their execs, to bullshit to the stupid, & for them to believe him !

              The only time you ever hear the beggar talk about Climate Change the prat bangs on about “we have clean air”. He doesn’t know the difference between AGW and air pollution, or pollution generally, Corky.

            • Corky

               /  28th September 2019

              You certainly have it in for Trumpy, Gezza. Sean Plunket made an interesting comment yesterday. He believes in about a years time, the bs science around climate change will reach a tipping point, and the tide will turn the other way towards the truth. I agree with Sean, in fact I have felt this for some time even though the reality looks quite different, as shown by the marches yesterday. The problem is should that scenario eventuate, Trumpy will go down in history as the man who knew better than the most learned minds on the planet. He withdrew America from climate accords because he knew better. That’s how it will look.

            • Gezza

               /  28th September 2019

              Even if he just lucked out by making the right call, the dopey arse is constantly claiming at sorts of international and home venues that he did it because Amerika has “clean air & clean water”, Corky,

              What does that tell you, buddy?

              Is he lying – pretending to be dumb, to fool the stupid & garner more votes from rich industrialists and their workers – or is he just so bloody intellectually lazy and thick that he doesn’t know the difference between anthropogenic global warming caused by increasing human-generated CO2 emissions, and bloody pollution?

            • Gezza

               /  28th September 2019

              *all sorts sorts of international and home venues

          • Pink David

             /  27th September 2019

            “There are some who may be putting too much emphasis on worst case (or towards worst case) scenarios, and that isn’t helpful, as it does give opponents scope to criticise.”

            Al Gore has made an absolute fortune out of selling the worst case imaginable while completely disregarding the science. He then uses a small percentage of his hundreds of million gained to buy beachfront property that would be underwater if anything he claimed was even remotely true.

            You don’t need to be a scientist to see the dis-junction there and wonder what the hell is going on.

            Obama has also just purchased a nice pad only few cm’s above sea level right on the waterfront. Why is that if he believes in this sea level rise?

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  27th September 2019


              79 Turkeyland Cove Road in Edgartown Marthas Vineyard
              Maybe 3 ft sea level , but those Atlantic Hurricanes would easily top that ..right now.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  1st October 2019

              If that’s Martha’s Vineyard, I can’t see why people rave about it.

  2. Duker

     /  27th September 2019

    That last link about ;’seawalls’ mentions a specific one . Dunedin
    “In Dunedin, the sea walls are already proving inadequate. Swells regularly overpower it, flooding the low-lying suburb. ”
    Surely even PG would know its utter nonsense.
    Flooding of the suburb comes from heavy rain in the area and no maintenance to the stormwater drains, not helped by the area being former swampland which slowly sinks when built on.
    Hello fake news.
    “That melting ice is running off into the sea, causing the Southern Ocean to rise by about 1cm per year.”
    No its not .Tell where that is the Sea level rise aroundfNZ
    Niwa says differently – but what would they know
    “If sea-level rise is only 2–3 millimetres per year”

    This is typical of these sorts of stories , false claims abound. Joel McManus, the Stuff journalist wouldnt know science from his elbow

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  27th September 2019

      “That melting ice is running off into the sea, causing the Southern Ocean to rise by about 1cm per year”

      That’s funny. It this was true there would be plenty of visible evidence of sea level rise. Well know landmarks around NZ harbors would be very visual indicators to this sea level rise.

      The Bean Rock lighthouse, for example, been there for 150 years, yet photos from well over one hundred years ago show the sea level exactly the same as today. Did it get lifted at some point in recent history?

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  27th September 2019

        Yes Bean Rock was rebuilt, maybe the 1970s. Harbours are not a good place for ‘seal level rise’ measurements when they were builtjust for tidal changes. Auckland has built a lot structures and reclamation’s that affect the tidal flow, and if the tide gauge is on a wharf that has come from a structure built into softer estuary sands and muds.

        Auckland Council has a SL gauge way out of the Gulf on a rockly islet near to Great Barrier and another on the Auckland West Coast. They give different numbers as you would expect. Pacific El Nino affects seal level rise considerably as well, let along the daily change in atmos pressure. As well they have buoys to measure wares

        “Each body of water has a natural period of oscillation which will influence its response to the tide raising forces. In general, the oscillation period for the Pacific Ocean is 25 hours and so many of the tides in the Pacific are diurnal. In the Atlantic Ocean the natural oscillation period is about 12½ hours so the tides in the Atlantic are predominantly semi-diurnal. ”
        It takes a very long time to work out all the tidal cycles and yet they say they can come up with a Global Sea Level rise each year. Its bullshit
        https://www.linz.govt.nz/sea/tides/introduction-tides/cause-and-nature-tides

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  27th September 2019

          “Its bullshit”

          Increasingly it’s simply fraud. This is a good example, the satellite record did not show any warming, so the people who run it have now ‘corrected’ it to ensure it shows the right answer.

          https://www.carbonbrief.org/major-correction-to-satellite-data-shows-140-faster-warming-since-1998

          The whole debate is based on data that is being openly changed to suit the narrative. Each issuing of the IPCC report shows the past getting colder. Funny that.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  27th September 2019

            Not just the past. They are taking out the minimums out of much more current temperatures, thats because of ‘harmonization’ with places 100s kms away
            Some places that just a single day of very cold minimum …thats ‘corrected’ too.

            “The Weekend Australian revealed last Saturday that the ­bureau had rewritten Australia’s temperature records for the second­ time in six years, increasing the rate of warming since 1910 from 1C to 1.23C.”
            The first recordings were done in 1895 , but the time series has been shortened to only 1910. The site has changed a few times , now at the airport ( and subject to all that concrete, but they cant stop ‘adjusting’

            Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  28th September 2019

      The seawalls where my mother lived as a child were not enough at some times (she could never understand why her father was unamused when the car was swamped) but they and the land are still standing.

      Reply
  3. Corky

     /  27th September 2019

    Holy shite…climate nutters swamp or beautiful land. Stuff can hardly keep up. Many of the cultists have that vague brainwashed look. Are rational folk like me safe? Should I have my dog put down so he doesn’t suffer? Will I survive the news tonight? Lordy, I feel like a criminal.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/116111023/live-students-leave-school-for-nationwide-climate-change-strike

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  27th September 2019

      *our*

      Reply
    • Duker

       /  27th September 2019

      Secondary school Holidays start this weekend…I guess the roads or airports out of the main centres wont be busier this weekend …. reducing CO2 and all that

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  27th September 2019

        But of course.

        Look for crowds of bicycles and walkers, none of whom will be using devices made of fossil fuels.

        Reply
    • Pink David

       /  27th September 2019

      “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”

      H.L. Mencken

      Reply
      • Notes on Democracy by Mencken places political leaders into two categories: the demagogue, who “preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots” and the demaslave, “who listens to what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he believes it himself.” He depicts politicians as “men who have sold their honor for their jobs.”

        So Trump would have to be a demagogue preaching untruths about climate change to idiots?

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  27th September 2019

          “So Trump would have to be a demagogue preaching untruths about climate change to idiots?”

          Your error is to believe Trump is a political leader.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  27th September 2019

            Your error is to believe Trump is a political leader.
            Apt indeed. The man is a lifelong narcissist, bullshitter, bully & conman who achieved popularity in a vacuous society as the architect & self-promoting star of a Reaity Tv show where he was paid to exploit these attributes & the craven wannabe minor celebrities who wanted to sponge off his notoriety.

            US society & politics has finally descended to the level where enuf people (many thinking, it seems to me, they could manipulate the guy & that he had more substance & brains than he has) they were desperate enuf to see if the US could run like a larger version of The Apprentice.

            And for vonfirmation of how deperately hopeless US voters have become, you only have to remember the huge amount of support that was being voiced by anti-Trumpers for Oprah bloody Winfrey to run against him!

            Reply
  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  27th September 2019

    What exactly is unprecedented” social change a euphemism for? Economic destruction, mass starvation and deaths?

    Reply
    • Pink David

       /  27th September 2019

      Viva la revolution comrade!

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  27th September 2019

        All based on –
        potential for surprise runaway ice melt.
        Ah those computer models are at it again..

        Reply
    • alloytoo

       /  28th September 2019

      “What exactly is unprecedented” social change a euphemism for? Economic destruction, mass starvation and deaths?”

      Ah Russia 2017…….how we missed you not.

      Reply
  5. Kitty Catkin

     /  27th September 2019

    I noticed untold No Planet B placards today.

    The people who were carrying these and other hackneyed sayings painted on cardboard will have made the cardboard unrecyclable because once it’s been painted, it will contaminate the rest.

    I bet that few of them walked there, don’t have phones, computers and other things made with fossil fuels.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  28th September 2019

      PDTs, it’s true; painted card and paper cannot be put in the recycling bin.

      If it goes into landfill, it will be there forever if the landfill is anaerobic as most are.

      If it goes into the ground, it will contaminate it and any waterways nearby.

      And if you don’t believe that phones etc are made with fossil fuels, look this up, What do you think that they’re made of ? Wood ?

      Reply
  6. Trevors_elbow

     /  27th September 2019

    What utter bs…. and no surprises teachers who are indoctrinated in Teachers Colleges are indoctrinating children and using them as political pawns….

    Is the climate changing… of course it is! Paleoclimatologists can show the evidence that Earths climate has moved around dramatically over Earths history….

    The question is: is man driving rapid and radical climate change?

    The answer is that theory is NOT proven….

    But according to Neo Marxists the science is settled…and the answer to the supposed problem is? Why of course its state control plus high taxes and no control on migration… hmmm a communist manifesto dressed in a Green Cape to fool the simple minded….

    Pete… they no longer call it AGW. Why? Because it’s not believable under that title, so instead change it to a mild manner climate change title which doesnt provoke a visceral response then slowly boil the pot so no one notices the true cause of full State control of everything…..but that mild titled problem was still being resisted, so now it’s full on crisis calls to drive rapid response with no chance to debate and understand to achieve the goal of control and communist central planning..

    Ardern pushing this is perfectly understandable as she is a communist under the moderate sounding scripted talking points…

    It’s all about control… dont fall for the bs Pete

    Reply
    • MaureenW

       /  27th September 2019

      Yep, they’re my thoughts also – well said

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  27th September 2019

        How do people justify the fact that there have been ice ages in the past which have, of course, ended when the climate changed ?

        I am 100% behind things like reducing waste, recycling, reusing and the rest of the things that are good for the environment. I don’t understand ‘conspicuous consumption’ as I am not a materialist and don’t want things like huge televisions and fancy phones. This is not virtue on my part, I am just not interested in those things.

        But I am not convinced that doing things to save the environment will change the climate.

        Reply
    • Gezza

       /  27th September 2019

      a communist manifesto dressed in a Green Cape to fool the simple minded….

      Fuxake Trev! That trope’s well out of date & inapt. E.g. No control on migration? Show me a communist country that supports no control on immigration? All those I can think of were maniacal about stooping their own citizens from leaving & keeoing everybody else out!

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  27th September 2019

        Sht! *”stopping” & “keeping”…

        Reply
      • Trevors_elbow

         /  28th September 2019

        Oh Communists and their travelling companions absolutely want uncontrolled migration into Western countries… as it breaks down a sense of national identity… which opens the way to reshape society in to a lefties vision of what should be… means to an end lad…means to an end

        Migration is being used as a weapon… if you cant see that then you are seeing without recognizing…. Lord Geeza of North Wellington is not seeing the man in the furry suit dancing across the scene because he is counting Pukekos

        Reply
        • I don’t know of any country that wants anything like uncontrolled migration.

          We have tightly controlled immigration here in New Zealand, as most countries do.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  28th September 2019

            Not quite true, Pete. We do have tightly controlled immigration…but many of our immigrants are the wrong type of people; people we don’t need. Therefore the net result is the same as unfettered immigration. Trevor is right, you can’t complete a global agenda if a country still has a national identity. That identity will fight back, as has Trump who’s slashed America’s refugee quota in half.
            I can but dream we would have the common sense to do the same.

            Reply
            • What do you consider to be ‘the right type’ of immigrants?

            • Corky

               /  28th September 2019

              Immigrants to skilled jobs ratio – 1 to1. Immigrants who are rich and will not rely on state welfare. And that’s it. We could also have ‘limited stay’ immigrants for menial jobs. But few would be necessary if NZ Beanies were made to work. We would accept no refugees except under special circumstances eg like the Afghan interpreters who we treated badly. Sometimes I wonder about the NZ mentality. We shaft immigrants and refugees who have helped NZ and been productive once in NZ..yet we have no problem with an African refugee on a benefit living in a state house and trying to import Khat. There would be zero Muslim immigration allowed..regardless of wealth or skills. The horse has already bolted in that regard and at best we would only be slightly limiting their compounding growth. Of course we must also factor in UN agreements we have signed over the years. I personally believe the fools who signed such agreements should be charged with treason. The UN is playing a long game, but their strategy is slowly fleshing out for all to see. I see nothing unreasonable with my stance, Pete. Unless you can point something out? We are too small a country to be continually getting immigration wrong. It’s not helped by shallow thinkers like Kitty who believe we are all about ‘diversity.’ Yeah, a what eventual cost?

            • Gezza

               /  28th September 2019

              There would be zero Muslim immigration allowed..regardless of wealth or skills. The horse has already bolted in that regard and at best we would only be slightly limiting their compounding growth.

              While I would personally not raise a fuss if that policy were introduced, because I think this religion brings an entire culture with it that at at the more fundamentalist level can be at distinct odds with the prevailing mores here and a larger Muslim community could eventually see more friction – have you worked out what the cost to our economy., diplomatic relations, & international reputation would be?

            • Corky

               /  28th September 2019

              The cost would be massive..from Muslim country trade sanctions, to
              being shunned by other Western nations who’d accuse us of being worse than Trump. Tourism may go south, Sonny Bill would be livid and there’d be a possible liberal surprising in New Zealand. I can’t imagine Helen Clark and Jacinda types taking such legislation lying down.

              My only defence would be threefold. First I would signal this move well in advance with public meetings, where without the media being in control, I could show the public the true state of affairs regarding Muslim communities overseas. Guest speakers from overseas would be invited along with Muslims. Media would be warned and given only one chance to show balanced coverage. Next I would go to work on Maoridom. I would want their support. I would explain to them that they may think it’s bad under English colonisation, but the reality of Islam having a major political say in our country would be devastating. One less problem would be my sales pitch to the bros.

              Then the most difficult part…if this doesn’t happen we would be fugged.
              European citizen would hopefully demand the same of their governments. They have suffered under Islamic influences and they would be asking ”why can’t we do that.’ I believe we could start a Western uprising.

              I wouldn’t tolerate any harm to Muslim communities. They would be told nothing changes for them. They are free to practice their religion as long as it doesn’t impinge on the NZ way. Halal certification, women’s only swimming sessions, Muslim only girls schools, hate preachers, FGM, would be absolutely outlawed.Government organisations would make no concessions to Islam. Private companies could make as many concessions as they like. That’s their business.

            • Gezza

               /  28th September 2019

              How much trade are we doing with Muslim countries now?

              How big a chunk would be taken out of our economy by those Muslim countries introducing trade sanctions (probably all of them) – and all those other non-Muslim countries supporting them because Muslim money lenders demand it – otherwise the Saudi & Emirati money keeping them afloat goes South – and e.g. Trump, Johnson (or whoever replaces him), Merkel, Macron et al can’t now sell them planes, AV’s and arms?

              Plus Trump’s reputation as a hard nosed salesman who doesn’t give a fug what the regime does as long as they spend money on US war materiel will go down the dunny! How can you do that to him?

            • Corky

               /  28th September 2019

              ”How much trade are we doing with Muslim countries now?”

              More than I ever suspected. The recent meat works losing a contract because they also processed pork is an example. Chocolate and other foods have to be Halal certified. Australians are having a major pushback against Halal certification of food.

              While I doubt Muslim countries are major export markets, we, as a small country would no doubt feel any sanctions against us. Good to see Simon Bridges sniffing around in India. I doubt he realises how important such a market will be for us in future.

              This makes for interesting reading: 13 billion market for Aussies.

              https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/aug/18/anti-halal-hate-campaigns-damaging-13bn-australian-industry-say-certifiers

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th September 2019

              Immigrants we don’t need…like three of the doctors in a local practice and one of the nurses, the chemist down the road, a local dentist, the husband of one of the GPs who was a teacher and now does the computer work for the practice as well as being at the desk….

              Then there are the various business owners, the teachers, the local dentist, the award-winning designer…all in my town.

          • Trevors_elbow

             /  28th September 2019

            Yeah sure Pete… “refugee crisis” … million flood in to Germany

            NGOs , the field arm of the left’s strategy, constantly calling for more migration and supporting illegal people movements from Africa to Europe… as well as Mexico into US

            It’s there and real….you reject the premise. All good… I dont care

            NZs tight controlled migration….that’s a laugh. Almost unrestricted to support our Export Education Sector….go live in Auckland for awhile and see it for yourselves. Dunedin is so isolated you dont see the real policy in action on a daily basis

            Reply
        • Gezza

           /  28th September 2019

          For chrissake, Yeoman Trevor. Are you eating paranoia flakes for breakfast these days?

          The Communist countries don’t give a tinker’s damn about encouraging migration to Western countries. I’ve heard none of them advocating it – no doubt for fear that doing so would rebound on them and result in calls in the UN and other venues for them to take refugees as well. They hard-nosed and not inclined to do so, thank you very much.

          No, my poor deluded fellow. They are simply sitting back and enjoying watching the spectacle of the West now having to pay the price of having people of an alien religion and culture, displaced as a result of the West’s interence in the MIddle East, now flooding into the West (the law of unintended consequences) and causing social and political disruption.

          They don’t need to do anything but shut up shop and shut up about it – which is what they’re doing.

          Putin is no doubt laughing at Trump and co for continuing to interfere in the region, building up potential for more disruption, war and further hordes of consequently displaced refugees heading for the safety and security of the West, who this time might decide they’ve had enuf.

          He’s supporting Assad and having his air truppen commit war crimes to secure their naval base Middle Eastern foothold in Tartus, and to make Assad and everyone else trying to end that conflict dependent of Russia’s requirements.

          Switch to conflakes, Yeoman. You’ll experience fewer delusions.

          PS: I’m not counting Pukekos at the moment, I’m counting tuis. This is from 7.30 am this morning. I have what looks like a breeding pair (large male, smaller female) making daily visits for sugar water & the male puts on numerous repeated, spectacular singing and dancing performances after fuelling up on the happy juice!

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  28th September 2019

            NZ would be the poorer if all the Muslim doctors, nurses and other professionals were not let in. The idea that no one cares about someone importing drugs is absurd if the person has been charged; their being Muslim is irrelevant.

            Bigotry is not grounds for immigration policy, even if Corks would like it to be. Most people, thank goodness, are not so monocultural that they can’t appreciate diversity or so insular that they are afraid of the unfamiliar. .

            Why on earth should there not be women-only swimming times ? It’s not in all swimming pools and it’s for a very small part of a week.

            How dare you call me a shallow thinker, Corky ? How many degrees do YOU have ? I have three. How many countries have you been in and how many languages do you know ? I have learned 9 languages & been in many countries Have you been on Mastermind ? I have. You are as shallow as a soup bowl.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  28th September 2019

              Make that a saucer. Some soup bowls are deeper than others.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  28th September 2019

              And you still think that beanie is short for beneficiary and not a woolly hat.

            • Gezza

               /  28th September 2019

              😮

              Well, Corks, to be fair, you did really ask for those several wee kicks in the gooneys.

              :/

            • Gezza

               /  29th September 2019

              Have to say, that’s a bit poor. I feel the skipping tui deserved more than 3 upticks. 😐

          • He’s had five now.

            Corcellus asks for it sometimes, he really does.

            Reply
  7. Lou Graham

     /  27th September 2019

    Hard to disagree with some of what the climate changing faction are saying. And why bother, the PR battle has been lost. But it would be great to hear what they actually want done about some of the difficult decisions ahead, and to know they understand the consequences.
    Sacrifice economic growth for the sake of our planet? Who then pays for our cancer services, children hospitals and other necessary public services?
    Reduce the size of dairy farms…stand by for even more mental health issues amonst our rural communities.
    What about a wage freeze, so that we don’t spend unnecessarily on consumerables? Stand by for huge job losses. Cut immigration so our roads are not clogged?
    Renewable energy….build more hydro damns, at the expense of our pristine environment?
    Genetic engineering, Nuclear power ?
    An admission from these folk, that at the least it’s going to be hard work with difficult decisions would be a good start, instead of “we will never forgive you” emotional nonsense…

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  27th September 2019

      Well there was one true thing Greta said that the acolytes demanding action now ignore
      ““… the politics and solutions needed are still nowhere in sight…”
      But then she complains that its ‘being left up to her generation”
      Not that they will have any idea either.

      Reply
      • She also said that she shouldn’t be there, she should be at school.

        I can’t argue with that.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  27th September 2019

          Shrieking abuse and accusations at people is most unlikely to achieve anything. The idea that the world’s governments are run by people who are taking no action and don’t give a damn about the environment is untrue and insulting.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  27th September 2019

            I remember that when I was at school we were very concerned for the environment and even wrote a school song that began ‘Why is everybody being so mean ?/Fighting wars and being unclean/There’s so much mess in this beautiful world/There’s not enough room for love.’ sung to the tune of Yellow River.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  27th September 2019

              Well, yes. We were the hippy generation of our youthful time. Greta is among the hippy generation of her youthful time. Niw they are known as greenies & social activists.

              We wanted to stop wars by greeting soldiers with flowers & getting rid of nuclear weapons. Of course, since then, we have had amoke opportunity to learn that you can’t stop a determined enemy with flowers, & MAD has been the best insurance against a nuclear war there is, because otherwise a bad & mad regime ( of which we’ve seen a few) might use its nuclear arsenal against another country if losing a conventional war.

              And nuclear power, properly managed is safe and efficient & kills thousands fewer than all of those killed by the construction of renewable energy sources.

            • Gezza

               /  27th September 2019

              amoke = ample

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  30th September 2019

            The yacht sailed by five sailors who flew across the Atlantic to do so was not only made of fossil fuels at a cost of many millions, it has a diesel engine.

            What happened to being seen on a screen when one is in another country ?

            I can’t help wondering if the unpleasant Greta is being used.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  30th September 2019

              Just as possible it’s the other way around, with doting parents encouraging it.

  8. Corky

     /  27th September 2019

    So, I wonder what Nationals response to this tsunami of ignorance will be. They currently are giving Trevor Mallard the fingers by refusing to take down a clip of a Labour MP making a fool of herself. Yeah..but has National the kaha to stand up to climate cultists? I have my doubts. One thing’s for sure, the National emergency is now to remove Labour from office for the sake of our economy. These protests will embolden Labour to go crazy with legislation.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  27th September 2019

      Bridges was a Climate Change Minister who signed NZ up to the Paris Accord on Climate mitigation…the cost to taxpayers over the 10 yr period around $8 to $10 bill in total.
      We can’t even afford census cost of $120 mill over 5 years to do it properly but $800 mill plus per year for climate mitigation is hidden in the budget. And yet despite that Bridges wants more motorways….talk about oil on the fire. As mentioned by PG earlier he is a demaskave who pretends he believes in the whole AGW circus

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  27th September 2019

      National under Bridges will run with the hare & hunt with hounds. The man apoears to me to have no red line principles & to say whatever he thinks will a) attack whatever Labour is doing & b) score his party votes.

      If elected, he will most likely then backtrack on much of it & when challenged point to commitments already signed up to by this govt, & National’s previous support for what he has since – for now – apparently done a 180° turn on.

      Reply
  9. Alan Wilkinson

     /  28th September 2019

    Amongst the silly nonsense spouted by millions who don’t know what they are talking about I found this take-down of one of the latest “it’s worse than we thought” promotions from Nature and its climate alarmist industry:
    https://judithcurry.com/2018/11/06/a-major-problem-with-the-resplandy-et-al-ocean-heat-uptake-paper/

    Ten months later Nature has finally retracted the paper but the IPCC continues to cite it and its invalid calculations and conclusions.

    Reply
    • Griff.

       /  28th September 2019

      They got the paper cite wrong in the report .
      The statement should have been cited to .

      Resplandy, L., R. F. Keeling, C. Roedenbeck, B. B. Stephens, S. Khatiwala, K. B. Rodgers, M. C. Long, L. Bopp and P. P. Tans (2018). “Revision of global carbon fluxes based on a reassessment of oceanic and riverine carbon transport.” Nature Geoscience 11(7): 504-508.

      Comment from Marco
      (This paper) fits with the statement made in the IPCC report. The retracted paper is about heat content, and not about carbon fluxes, so it is very obvious a mistake was made (both 2018 papers, both Resplandy and Keeling as first and second author).

      As usual a non story from sources spreading fud.

      https://retractionwatch.com/2019/09/27/did-the-ipccs-new-oceans-report-mean-to-cite-a-now-retracted-paper/#more-116568

      She is a lot more informed than someone like you who gets their information from fringe dwelling whackos Alan .
      As has just been proven yet again

      Reply
      • alloytoo

         /  28th September 2019

        Gee whiz the IPCCS releases a report referencing the wrong paper, likely to influence billions of dollars of investment and taxes…….not inspiring confidence…..

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  28th September 2019

          Gee whzz they used the wrong cite.
          Correcting the cite to the correct paper as referenced in the report does not change the content of the report in any way.
          Result
          Nothing besides a bunch of whackos gibbering nonsense and making them self’s look even more stupid than usual .

          If that is actually possible .

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  28th September 2019

            Not a wrong cite at all….the discredited authors made basic errors and yet the clique at IPCC , who are supposed to be experts in the field didn’t pick it up….of course it was saying what they wanted to say…to good to check.
            Science isn’t some sort low grade publication , it a premier publication for the best of the best, who then staged the retraction timing to cover the back sides of IPCC chapter authors.

            Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  28th September 2019

        I got my information from the same source that you cite, Griff. And Judith Curry is not half as wacko as you.

        Reply
        • Griff.

           /  29th September 2019

          Did I cite WUWT Alan ? No I googled the paper and read it straight from retraction watch.
          I know from years of experience that what nutbars find on the likes of WUWT and what reality is are usually two totally different things so fact checked your story for you.

          This was retracted

          Quantification of ocean heat uptake from changes in atmospheric O 2 and CO 2 composition
          L Resplandy, RF Keeling, Y Eddebbar, MK Brooks… – Nature, 2018 – nature.com
          The ocean is the main source of thermal inertia in the climate system 1. During recent
          decades, ocean heat uptake has been quantified by using hydrographic temperature
          measurements and data from the Argo float program, which expanded its coverage after …

          This was used in the report .

          Revision of global carbon fluxes based on a reassessment of oceanic and riverine carbon transport
          L Resplandy, RF Keeling, C Rödenbeck… – Nature …, 2018 – nature.com
          Measurements of atmospheric CO 2 concentration provide a tight constraint on the sum of the land and ocean sinks. This constraint has been combined with estimates of ocean carbon flux and riverine transport of carbon from land to oceans to isolate the land sink

          Your logic error was a non sequitur.
          A paper Resplandy et al (2018) is retracted it does not follow that the IPCC used any content from a retracted paper.
          The retracted paper is not linked to any of the content in the report. The cite was incorrect not the report .
          WUWT told you bullshite that you repeated like the gullible sheepie you are .

          As to Judith.
          Known to contradict her own research and get distracted by nonsense like the stadium wave. Waffles about her uncertainty monster and ignores that the uncertainty goes both ways. To stupid to understand what 110% means.
          Just another discredited fossil fuel industry shrill.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  29th September 2019

            I neither cited nor read WUWT on this issue Griff. Your personal attacks discredit both yourself and your case.

            Reply
            • Griff.

               /  30th September 2019

              Alan
              You did not get the paper’s retraction from retract watch and you also did not read the IPCC report . As I expected the nonsense you repeated was front page on WUWT when I checked.
              You would have got your lie from one of the echo chambers if not WUWT.
              Which one matters not they all prey on gullible sheep.

              Personal attacks?

              Ten months later Nature has finally retracted the paper but the IPCC continues to cite it and its invalid calculations and conclusions.
              The scientists involved acknowledged their mistake as soon as they were notified. That acknowledgement has long been attached to the paper on Natures web site.

              19 November 2018 Editor’s Note: We would like to alert readers that the authors have informed us of errors in the paper.

              The papers calculations and conclusions have never been used in any IPCC report.

              You have made an attack on the many thousands of reputable scientists involved in the IPCC process based on a proven easily found out lie.
              The years of misdirection and lies from climate cranks have attacked the very foundations of science itself.

              When You repeat a lie and get called what you are it then becomes a personal attack.
              That is the same MO used by another crank who comments on here
              It is an mental evasion on your behalf’s to avoid the cognitive dissonance required in addressing you have been proven bullshite artists who are attacking thousands of reputable scientists with made up nonsense you get from fringe whacko sources.

  10. Alan Wilkinson

     /  28th September 2019

    Greta is too young to know better. Adults should.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  29th September 2019

      She and her ilk seem not to have heard of the recycling that’s been going for years, the promotion of electric cars and other such things. I think that the NZ recyling has been happening since before she was born !

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  29th September 2019

        She also sees nothing wrong with five people flying across the Atlantic to give her a free ride in a boat made of fossil fuels.

        If governments were as callous as the little know-all makes out, there would be no recycling programmes, no council composting schemes, no electric cars….

        Reply
  11. Reply
    • Reply
      • Gezza

         /  29th September 2019

        Lol

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  29th September 2019

          Lol..x2. Let’s now play spot the security detail. They blend in with the crowd like a black man at a KKK rally. Maybe they wanted it that way for security reasons?

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  29th September 2019

            Key would take his security with him even when on holiday at his gated community on Hawaii . Your point was ?

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  29th September 2019

            More to the point…your point is? Why is Key in your equation?

            Reply
    • Pink David

       /  29th September 2019

      What’s most remarkable is that it’s one of the very few photos of him not in Blackface.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  29th September 2019

        He’ll have to go 😡

        Who else have they got ? 😳

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  29th September 2019

        Typical liberal… milk of kindness on the outside. Rotten bigot on the inside. To be fair, the young chap in this clip probably at the time didn’t know black people were human and just maybe… deserved some respect. Anyway he and Jacinda will soon be history. Can’t wait.

        Reply
        • Pink David

           /  29th September 2019

          “Rotten bigot on the inside. ”

          Rubbish and you know it. He just loves to play dress up.

          “To be fair, the young chap in this clip probably at the time didn’t know black people were human and just maybe”

          Take a stab at who he is dressed as….

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  29th September 2019

            Dukers brother? You must try harder.

            Reply
            • Pink David

               /  29th September 2019

              Jim from Huck Finn. He is literally dressed as a black slave.

            • Corky

               /  29th September 2019

              How do you know this?

            • Jim didn’t wear a t-shirt with a transfer on it.

            • Corky

               /  29th September 2019

              Even Kitty worked it out, Dave. Not good. Although she missed the groin enhancements. But only advanced observers like me would pick that up. Yep, this prat just likes dressing up.

            • Gezza

               /  29th September 2019

              Really? What makes you say that?

            • Gezza

               /  29th September 2019

              Managed to embarrass two countries (and a few others) at the same time!

            • Corky

               /  30th September 2019

              That’s not dressing up…that’s crawling. Only a liberal can be so obviously dumb.

            • Pink David

               /  30th September 2019

              Here he is as Superwoman….

            • Pink David

               /  30th September 2019

              “Jim didn’t wear a t-shirt with a transfer on it.”

              Allow the man some artistic licence. He’s playing dress-up, he can be whoever he wants to be.

            • Corky

               /  30th September 2019

              ”Here he is as Superwoman….”

              Yes, I can agree with that.

              ”Allow the man some artistic licence. He’s playing dress-up, he can be whoever he wants to be.”

              Maybe in those times. But not now. You don’t get to say sorry for history. The sins of the father ( or the younger self in this case)` must now be visited upon the son.

  12. Corky

     /  30th September 2019

    Jeremy Clarkson takes on the Swedish brat and gets a serve from his daughter. Typical case of elder abuse.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12272209

    Reply
  13. Corky

     /  30th September 2019

    The economy is tanking( 10 year confidence low), and Labour is worried about climate change!?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  30th September 2019

      To be fair, if AGWCC is really happening, then whether the economy is tanking (which may actually be Trump’s fault, if it is true) is irrelevant to Climate Change. You’ve been around the traps long enuf to know the score – correlation does not equal causation, Corks. 😐

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  1st October 2019

        We don’t have a general purpose comments thread.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  1st October 2019

          Yes. I’ve asked PG if he might consider one, maybe like to trusty old Open Forum?

          Posters such as yourself & I & the few regulars who still seem to look in here for anything of interest to them would probably be happy to make what were frequently effectively posts & generated interesting & topical discussions.

          However I imagine if PG did that, it would likely increase the amount of time he would have to spend monitoring the site for anything untoward being posted. And he clearly has numerous other projects & matters that he wants to devote his time to currently.

          You could always scroll back on the site & reactivate an old OF page, maybe, Corky?

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  1st October 2019

            ”However I imagine if PG did that, it would likely increase the amount of time he would have to spend monitoring the site for anything untoward being posted.”

            Yes, maybe. But given I don’t respond to Kitty and Griffs trolling there shouldn’t be a problem. Maybe the odd troll may crop up but they could be deleted for good. Lurchy could be a problem if his jock strap had shrunk in the dryer. But he could be deleted too. Whaleoil style moderating given Pete doesn’t have time to fug around. I think everyone would get the message. The upside for Pete is he wouldn’t have to look for stories to post.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  1st October 2019

              I heard back from Pete this morning, not long after I replied to you. He’s bisy, but He’s had an idea. Check back here to night.

            • Corky

               /  1st October 2019

              Chur!

            • Gezza

               /  1st October 2019

              Christ !

              bisy ??? 🙄

              I should give lessons on how NOT to proof-read before posting on online forums.. I could make a bloody fortune ! 💰

  14. Corky

     /  1st October 2019

    Did my usual check of mainstream media. I sent a very mild letter to my local paper, and backed my points up with facts. Not published.( I didn’t expect it to be).

    Sent a letter of complaint to TVNZ. I outlined their biased reporting, backing it up with facts.
    Their reply was astounding. They said their job was to bring balanced viewing and not be biased towards pressure groups.

    And their you have it folks. The writer of that reply was obviously as thick as pigshite. People who question climate dogma are obviously lumped together as a ‘pressure group.’

    Should I..😂😂😂, or 😢😢😢?

    Reply

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