Open Forum – 4 November

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119 Comments

  1. It ain’t half hot, mum. I foresee another fan drought this year.

    Reply
  2. Gezza

     /  4th November 2019

    Just updating a discussion from last week to this week’s Open Forum …
    … … …
    “An Indian community group in Auckland wants an apology from Shane Jones over comments he directed at people unhappy with changes to immigration policy.

    The New Zealand First MP and Cabinet minister said if the Indian community wasn’t happy with the changes, they should get on the first plane home.

    A change in approach by immigration officials to partnership visas means Indians in particular are having a much harder time bringing their spouses to New Zealand.

    There has been a specific government directive to stop waiving requirements such as couples needing to have lived together for 12 months – a test Indian couples who have had arranged marriages can’t meet.

    Talking about a more recent change to the parent category visa last weekend, Mr Jones told RNZ he was saddened by the “levels of verbiage that the Indian communal leadership have thrown at the party”.

    “I would just say to the activists from the Indian community, tame down your rhetoric, you have no legitimate expectations in my view to bring your whole village to New Zealand and if you don’t like it and you’re threatening to go home – catch the next flight home.”

    The Waitākere Indian Association said the comments were insensitive and should be condemned.

    It wants the prime minister, the Minister of Ethnic Communities, the opposition and sitting Indian MPs to support its demand for a public apology from Mr Jones.

    The association also urged the Immigration Minister Iain Lees-Galloway and Minister of Ethnic Communities Jenny Salesa to engage with the community to understand cultural differences and work towards a solution to incorporate it into immigration policy.

    There was a sense of despair among Indians living in New Zealand that the recently announced income thresholds to apply for a parent visa are so high, the association said.”
    … … …

    Well, good luck with getting an apology from Shane Jones – our Acting Deputy PM. And the PM’s not likely to insist on one.

    I’ve had 3 lengthy discussions about the Indian arranged marriage system with Indian males over the past couple of years – all of them happily married for some years, with children. Two local dairy owners & a taxi driver.

    All of them told me that they and their wives were happy enuf to have their marriages arranged by their respective parents because they & their wives had all met each other in India before the actual marriage took place, & they were all given the choice whether to marry or not.

    In fact they consider this system to be superior to the way many young Western couples just meet up, the hormones kick in, they have sex & fall head over heels in love, they get together, sometimes even have a child together, and then it all falls apart, the parents separate, & they should never have married or partnered up in the first place.

    They all said more or less the same thing; your parents are more worldly-wise. They are more likely, when they meet the prospective bride or groom’s parents, & then the bride or groom, to ask a lot more searching questions & do a lot more checking to see whether the two of you will be compatible. And because, these days, you each get the say so on whether you want to marry or not, the marriages tend to last.

    The problem is that where previously your new spouse got a visitor’s visa to come (or stay) here after the wedding so you can meet the “12 months living together” rule, now, they can’t.

    That arrangement seems to have been going on for some time so I’m curious why Immigration New Zealand suddenly changed it. Has there recently been a spike in dodgy marriages, or is this change a political one?

    It seems strange for any party to be deliberately getting themselves off side with the Indian resident community, but if any party was going to, it’d be NZF.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  4th November 2019

      I note though that Jones’s offensive remark was made in respect of the recent change to the Parent Category of NZ’s immigration policy. And I think most Kiwis & even some immigrants will be happy enuf with a change that ensure parents sponsored out here don’t end up being supported by the taxpayer, as has reportedly been happening.

      That doesn’t equate to immigrants “bringing their whole village” to NZ, tho. So, one hopes Jones finds that insult backfiring on him in some way. Not that it would probably change how he operates. Got a hide as thick as a rhinoceros probably.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  4th November 2019

      I’m with Jonsey on this. Any clamp down on immigration is fine with me. Here’s my problem:

      ”The Waitākere Indian Association said the comments were insensitive and should be condemned.

      It wants the prime minister, the Minister of Ethnic Communities, the opposition and sitting Indian MPs to support its demand for a public apology from Mr Jones.”

      Demanding!!! There’s another group of immigrants who start demanding, too. Of course, these groups demand because the liberal West is SUCH a soft touch.

      Other countries have a very simple solution to people who demand – they simply kill them.

      Time for the Waitakere Indian community to count their blessings. If you think you can find better… please go.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  4th November 2019

        You’re with Jonesy on this? You mean, you think Indian immigrants are bringing out their whole village?

        How many do you know of who have done this?

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  4th November 2019

          ”You mean, you think Indian immigrants are bringing out their whole village?”

          No.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  4th November 2019

            Why agree with someone saying it, then ?

            Reply
          • Gezza

             /  4th November 2019

            Well, that’s the bit that they’ve most likely taken exception to, Corky. Because it’s not happening.

            I’d like to know more about WHY INZ stopped issuing visitors visas to Indian arranged marriage spouses, because the old policy seemed like a workable pragmatic solution, & that’s usually what happens when people get married to Kiwis while on student or visitors visas, as I understand it. They get given visas to stay for long enuf to meet the “12 months together” rule.

            If there’s been an increase in failed or marriages or marriages of convenience with Indian applicants that puts a different construction on things, although it still doesn’t necessarily justify making a blanket change which also penalises other genuine marriages like those dedcribed to me above.

            However, when the The Waitakere Indian Association spokesperson also went on to:

            urge the Immigration Minister Iain Lees-Galloway and Minister of Ethnic Communities Jenny Salesa to engage with the community to understand cultural differences and work towards a solution to incorporate it into immigration policy.
            and further claimed that:
            There was a sense of despair among Indians living in New Zealand that the recently announced income thresholds to apply for a parent visa are so high

            they are getting in to territory that will irritate many Kiwis, like me, who aren’t keen on New Zealand being expected to have immigration policies that accommodate everybody’s cultural differences. If I was immigrating to another country I’d expect to have to adapt to that country. Not expect IT to adapt to ME & my culture.

            This is like, every so often, when Muslim immigrants suggest NZ’s immigration policy is culturally insensitive because it doesn’t recognise polygamous marriages, & that it should be changed to accommodate these.

            I’m happy enuf with having a multi-ethnic society, but I’m not a big fan of multi-culturalism.

            Reply
          • Corky

             /  4th November 2019

            I think we need to keep this debate civilised… hand mowers and lemonade, anyone? 😂. Please excuse my dry sense of humour.

            Of course, I circumscribed the comments I had a problem with.

            Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  4th November 2019

        If you mean that Muslims are ‘demanding’ things, say it and don’t hint. If you mean it, have the guts to say it. And don’t start on women-only nights at swimming pools.

        These Indians simply want an apology for a crass, racist remark. It’s hardly wholesale demanding of anything. It was a stupid, mean-spirited remark and unworthy of someone in his position. His own ancestors were immigrants, as were yours.

        Reply
    • Blazer

       /  4th November 2019

      An arranged marriage,sounds like a marriage of convenience to me.
      Something frowned upon by Immigration NZ ,regarding non Indian applicants.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  4th November 2019

        You seem not to know the difference between a marriage made by matchmakers, which is the tradition in some cultures and where the marriage is a real one, and a marriage of convenience, which isn’t.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  4th November 2019

          In a marriage of convenience, money usually changes hands and the couple go their own ways as soon as the wedding’s over.

          It’s hard to see how a traditional, arranged Indian marriage can be seen as a marriage of convenience. Indian friends down the road had one and have been married for decades !

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  4th November 2019

            who ever got married because it was…inconvenient?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  4th November 2019

              So your argument is that INZ is opposed to marriages?

            • The inconvenience question is puerile.

              You must be aware of what the term marriage of convenience means. It;s been around long enough.

              In an arranged marriage, the people stay together, have families and do what most married couples do. In a marriage of convenience, they don’t.

              I wonder if there is any evidence that Muslims have tried to have polygamy legalised here. Most Muslims, as far as I know, don’t practice it, any more than all Mormons do,

            • Gezza

               /  4th November 2019

              @Kitty

              Polygamous marriages may not be performed in New Zealand. A married person who enters into another marriage in New Zealand is guilty of the crime of bigamy. Similar rules apply for civil unions, which have been legal in New Zealand since 2005. However, polygamous marriages legally performed in another country have limited recognition in New Zealand law, provided that no person involved was living in New Zealand at the time of the union.

              Advocacy for full legalisation of polygamy in New Zealand has come from some libertarian individuals and from individual members of non-Christian religious groups. However, polygamy has little public support among New Zealanders, and no major political party has endorsed its legalisation.
              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_New_Zealand

      • Gezza

         /  4th November 2019

        There can be some marriages of convenience among these. Cases where the bride or groom have been “bought” & the marriage collapses. Some such brides have ended up in Women’s Refuges, fighting to stay, after being abused by their husband.

        Which is why INZ imposes a “12 months together before permanent residence” rule. And they do checks. In addition to the couple having to produce documentary evidence (jbills or bank accounts in joint names etc) that they have lived together throughout that period, INZ may visit & check out the house & bedroom etc.

        I was asked to confirm in writing that the marriage of one of my neighbours was genuine a couple of years ago. She was from China. There was an 8 year difference in their ages, she was 44, he was 52. I’d been over to their place (they were living downstairs with her parents) on many occasions & there was no doubt their marriage was genuine. (They’ve moved to Palmy North now, but they still visit, & are still together.)

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  4th November 2019

          I have fill forms out for an Indian trotting one of my nieces. He is using her to the max, and she just can’t see it. No matter what we say, she’s in love. If I had known before hand he was just using her I wouldn’t have signed. The papers were very comprehensive and time consuming. Just recently he cleaned out their joint account of over $8.000.

          That said, I have little problem with Indians. Hardworkers, family oriented and not regulars in our court system. They could teach Maori a thing or two.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  4th November 2019

            I wasn’t required to fill out any form. Just give them a letter with my contact details to submit to INZ with their other joint bills etc papers.

            Maybe INZ changed their procedures since then.

            What kind of form did you complete? Or were you filling out the Partner Category Residence Visa form for him?

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  4th November 2019

              Residence Visa. The questions were straightforward, but the applicant was required to to fill out an A4 using his own words as to what he’s doing etc.
              That was a headache given his poor English and insistence I explain everything I wrote down.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  4th November 2019

              That sounds highly improbable. The idea that one of your rellies just happens to be in this situation is a little too good to be true, and it seems odd that someone has to write an A4 page as well as filling out all the forms which cover all aspects of their application to stay. They are expected to have a reasonable understanding of English, so if you really are doing it for him, you might be in a bit of trouble. Have you also filled out the form for him ?

              Why would you want someone like this to stay ?

        • Duker

           /  4th November 2019

          I think the word that isn’t been used here is Dowry. Effectively many Indian women are buying a NZ husband..
          Of course kiwi men buying into a marriage with a much younger Asian woman or Eastern Europe happens to.. every time I hear about one of those saying INZ has blocked his brides visa, I’m thinking this dude has a history of broken !arriages to offshore brides, but of course INZ can’t reveal personal details , so it’s left to us to read between the lines

          Reply
    • Gezza

       /  5th November 2019

      Shane Jones stirs the pot harder …

      New Zealand First MP Shane Jones is making no apology for his “racist” comments aimed at the Indian community and wants to see a tougher crackdown on immigration with a national population policy.

      He told Stuff on Tuesday he was speaking on behalf of “battalions” of “ordinary Kiwis who were highly anxious” about population growth putting stress on state services and infrastructure.

      Meanwhile, Immigration Minister Iain Lees-Galloway is refusing to let the Government take responsibility for the remarks and says the visa decision that ignited the controversy would be “sorted out” this week.

      Jones said he will be advocating with his caucus colleagues that New Zealand needs a population policy.

      He told Newshub the backlash was a “Bollywood overreaction.”

      The Migrant Workers Association and Love Aotearoa Hate Racism held a rally calling for Jones to make a public apology and his resignation. Anu Kaloti from the Association said Jones was using the same racist dog whistle as United States President Donald Trump.

      When asked if he would apologise for his comments, he said he had moved on from the remarks and it was just a verbalisation of the political world.
      “I can introduce them to legions, battalions, of Kiwis who feel it is a contested space and in Shane Jones they have someone who gives voice to their anxieties. As a politician, if a bloke with my ancestry can’t openly and penetratingly talk about these things, then I challenge you to find someone who could.”

      The people who “attacked” him for being a bigot or a racist failed to understand his lineage and that he was a son of the Treaty of Waitangi, he said. “I have the blood that formed this nation running through my veins, so any suggestion that my voice should be stifled because of the Indian migrant activists taking offence … they fail to understand that I’m giving voice to the hundreds of thousands of Kiwis who are deeply anxious about whether we are doing the right thing with the mix of immigration policy we have at the moment and asking how big do we want the population to swell through immigration .”

      He had discussed his remarks with his NZ First caucus on Tuesday and would further discuss the importance of reviving some immigration “assumptions” now that the population was almost capping five million.

      I am firmly of the view that we have reached the point in time to address this. I will be advocating with my caucus colleagues that New Zealand need a population policy.” He would likely wait under after the 2020 election to make his proposal but there was a party retreat in the coming weeks, where it might be brought up for discussion.

      Earlier, [Immigration Minister] Lees-Galloway said he had not spoken to Jones:

      “I think Mr Jones knows my views on this situation I have no ministerial responsibility for Shane Jones … [he] can take responsibility for his own comments.”

      The Government valued the contribution of the Indian community to New Zealand, which could be seen in its response to the visa issue, he said. Labour took the visa upset seriously and it had been his priority to sort it out and there would be a result in the coming days, he said.

      The intervention has come after mounting anger and frustration from the Kiwi-Indian community at recent policy changes with some even walking away from the Labour Party.

      Sounds like a policy change or direction to INZ to reinstate the previous practice might be in the way?

      Meanwhile, National Party leader Simon Bridges called on Jones to reflect on his comments. “What he said is entirely unacceptable is distasteful and wrong.” Bridges said there was no chance of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern showing leadership on it and doing anything about Shane Jones.

      Got that one right, Simon ! 😎

      More…
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117175642/shane-jones-making-no-apology-to-indian-community-for-racist-comments–says-anxious-kiwis-want-national-population-policy

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  5th November 2019

        *on the way.

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  5th November 2019

        Can’t say I disagree with anything Jonsey is saying. What worries me is Simon Bridges comments. He’s another do-nothing Obama…and Bridges so-call hardline policies aren’t really hardline at all. Time for Luxon to step up. Not that I would expect much difference from him.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  5th November 2019

          Well, I heard Luxton say on 1News in a bit of audio on RNZ that they played that he supports cutting the benefit of those who don’t get their children immunised, so it seems he’s more of an idiot than I gave him credit for.

          Reply
    • Gezza

       /  6th November 2019

      Ardern wants ‘arranged marriage’ visa policy change reversed
      A strict visa policy that outraged New Zealand’s Indian community because of its impact on arranged marriages, should be reversed, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. On Wednesday, Ardern said Immigration New Zealand (INZ) made the carte blanche changes, off its own back and not under the authority of Cabinet. “Of course what we are looking for is a return to the status quo … our expectation is that we return to the way we were operating prior to the changes they made.”

      An INZ spokeswoman said it was aware of concerns raised by the Indian community and confirmed the decision was made by INZ and was not a directive by the Government. The change was made to ensure immigration instructions were being applied consistently and appropriately, she said.

      In May, INZ issued a visa information to staff with advice and clarification in relation to temporary applications, where the applicants were in a relationship but could not meet the requirements under partnership/partner instructions. This Visa Pak was to assist Immigration Officers so they could be consistent in their application of immigration instructions, she said.

      It was also to reinforce the message that an exception to instructions was not something that was made automatically but rather on a case by case basis, where the particular circumstances of the applicant merits the grant of a visa as an exception to instructions. “We are currently looking at our approach to culturally arranged marriages. INZ is unable to provide any further comment at this stage.”

      Immigration Minister Iain Lees-Galloway has said the Government would not take responsibility for Jones’ remarks and said Labour took the visa upset seriously and it had been his priority to sort it out and there would be a result in the coming days.

      The Government valued the contribution of the Indian community to New Zealand, he said. On Wednesday, he said progress was being made and he was working though options to make decisions. He was unsure if any decision would have to go thought Cabinet. If it was operational change, INZ could make it without Cabinet. – Stuff.co [abridged]

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  6th November 2019

        The problem with the West in one easy lesson. This woke has to go for the sake of our country. But will the replacement be any better?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  6th November 2019

          Reading between the lines it’s not a done deal yet. Unless they’re complete wallys at the top, INZ probably didn’t make this procedural change for no reason. The careful language used by Lees-Galloway suggests he may be facing some pushback from his Department – otherwise why not just issue a directive to them to reverse the change, & announce the change in departmental policy has been reversed?

          I think Duker might be right – they possibly have been experiencing an increase in sham or failed arranged marriages. Or maybe there’s been an increase in numbers of such marriages & they haven’t got the resources to check them all?

          Lets wait & see what happens.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  7th November 2019

            Mikey interviewed Tuariki Delmare. He said these types of problems had been ongoing. He offered simple procedural remedies. And he claimed he had been making these suggestions to government(s) for years.

            Reply
  3. Corky

     /  4th November 2019

    I think we need to keep this debate civilised… hand mowers and lemonade, anyone 😂

    Reply
  4. Simeon

     /  4th November 2019

    It is a good idea to keep a debate civilized. The problem arises when we are importing people from less civilized countries who simply seek to piggyback off us people who have sweated and worked and paid taxes for decades already and from whom the newcomers demand ‘bennies’ without first contributing for a minimum period and quantity of income. Check out the ‘official’ unemployment rate – and the duration of that unemployment – before reflexively craving raaaacist, hmmm? And there are these shining addition to our citizenry, e.g. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11495581

    Ah, now, where did I put my hazmat/asbestos suit?

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  4th November 2019

      That is too small a sample to prove anything.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  4th November 2019

        People have to be citizens, residents and/or have been here for a minimum of two years before they can claim anything from WINZ. They can’t just bowl in and demand a benefit; they won’t get one.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  4th November 2019

          I think they possibly can. If sponsored immigrants’ sponsors defaulted on their sponsorship obligations & they were in were in desperate straits, WINZ – a decade back when I was working for the government – used to provide most of the main benefits under an “In Hardship” category that wasn’t advertised.

          And those benefits might not always have been counted in official main benefit stats, unless the requestor also asked for stats on any In Hardship benefits too.

          Reply
        • Duker

           /  4th November 2019

          Yes you can. Emergency benefit overrules all other requirements, that’s for people who have absolutely no income..
          Same goes for NZ super, if you haven’t been here for the required time, then unemployment benefit is paid until the clock ticks past your residency requirement, then you can leave to live with the kids in Australia where NZ will continue to pay your super under the special conditions between our countries

          Reply
  5. Corky

     /  4th November 2019

    I see the Oracle has now divined my life and knows better than me what’s true, and what isn’t. It’s now an expert on Residency Visas for Indians, and no doubt has the best naan bread recipe in the world…passed down from a relative who just happened to have private conversations with Queen Victoria.😊😁

    Reply
  6. duperez

     /  4th November 2019

    It was a certainty that when the Rugby World Cup was over, all the angles had been covered and there was nothing more to say, the sports journalists would justify their existence by finding something more to say. Superfluous stuff.

    Fortunately Steven Hansen retired so there is that stream to plumb. Unfortunately he’s apparently off to manage some Japanese club so there could even be an ocean.

    I appreciate the need for some of the species to analyse to the death. A pity given his body of work in the field that he’s been in, Hansen gets the rule run over him by hacks whose work in their own field would hardly pass muster.

    (I will not link to particular drivel.)

    Reply
  7. Gezza

     /  4th November 2019

    Pookden Manor – afternoon tea time

    Cheekybird Sparrow takes advantage of the jard-blowing Norwesterly to hover for attention & let me know where to throw some breadcrumbs.

    Reply
  8. Gezza

     /  5th November 2019

    A UK Labour government might ban private jets

    The United Kingdom’s opposition Labour Party said on Monday it would examine closely a proposal to ban private jets and consult with the industry about a phase-out date for the use of fossil-fuel private planes.

    Andy McDonald, the opposition spokesman for the transport sector, said a report from the Common Wealth think-tank proposing a ban on private jets made a “very convincing argument”.

    “Why is the government enabling billionaires to trash the climate when it’s the rest of us who will suffer the consequences?” he said in a statement.

    “In just a few years’ time, it will be possible for these journeys to be made by electric aircraft – so long as [the] government puts in place the right incentives. Labour will examine these proposals closely and consult with industry on the introduction of a phase-out date for the use of fossil fuel private jets.
    – Al jazeera”

    Clobbering the “rich pricks”. Can’t be many millionaires who’d vote for Corbyn anyway. Guessing none.

    What about overseas millionaires flyng into & out of the UK?

    But a vote winner with the plebs?

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  5th November 2019

      ”Al jazeera.” That name envokes images of wealth generated by oil. With wealth comes private jets. With private jets comes rich Arabs travelling to look over investments made in the UK, which are very extensive. Only Labour would be dumb enough to consider banning private jets.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  5th November 2019

        only National would be dumb enough to fund an Arab sheik to set up a sheep farm in a …desert!

        Reply
  9. Corky

     /  5th November 2019

    Mikey is having a boomer show this morning. He’s really got me thinking on issues.

    1- China. The Chinese ambassador asking to be interviewed by NZ media to put in a good word for her country. That’s unusual. An upgrade to our free trade agreement with China went relatively smoothly. My guess is China will invade HK as us Roundies celebrate Xmas. As Mikey pointed out, violence is increasing in HK, its just not being reported. Come Xmas, a group of Asians being killed and tortured to death will be far from our minds.

    2- Christophe Luxon. Heard him talking with Mikey. He has that same light breezy feel that John Key had. Definitely will be a National Party leader when he’s compared to the ponderous heavy presence of Simon Bridges. Bridges is a big political player…he’s just not PM material.

    3- India won’t sign a free trade deal with NZ and other countries. Go it alone PM. We need India under our belt before relations with China sour, or we are forced to choose alliances.
    And don’t forget Brazil.

    4- Once again Mikey shows why RIGHT is best.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  5th November 2019

      Re Luxon….=the ‘new Muldoon’…is he related?

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  5th November 2019

        another RICH, middle-aged white guy joins the ‘Tory’ ranks.. just what they needed ?!
        Paula looked like she was nearly wetting herself.. with excitement.. :/

        Reply
      • Zedd

         /  5th November 2019

        I was just watching “breakfast show’ (TV1+1) John Campbell, (interviewing Luxon) even made a comment about Natl ‘looking backwards’ & commented about Nats under Muldoon !

        Luxon said (paraphrased) ‘Natl is a party for all NZers’ BUT Campbell responded that they are really about looking after some NZers (the top 50.1% ??) WAKE UP !! :/

        Reply
    • Gezza

       /  5th November 2019

      China / Hong Kong

      The ambassador wanting to promote a positive image with NZ at this time because they’ll want support or at least a muted response from other countries if & when they invade Hong Kong is a reasonable possibility.

      No one is going to be surprised if China sends in the troops. Hong Kong is historically, & now once again officially, part of China. The mainly young people who’ve had a look at the PRC & its repressive government & don’t want to be absorbed into the PRC who are now attacking buildings & still constantly disrupting the place are perceivable as secessionists & rebels.

      It seems that Beijing has been hoping the majority of HK citizenry will get so annoyed with the protestors/rioters they’ll smash them eventually, or that the HK police will. But it hasn’t stopped Beijing from making very clear threats they’ll send in the PLA eventually.

      I don’t imagine they’ll think the West will be too busy & preoccupied during Xmas season to really notice or care if they invade HK around then. When they do, it will be the headline news item all around the world. And apart from some extra sanctions & threats of more & tut-tutting from Western countries & the helpless, useless UN Secretary General, no one will do anything about it but talk.

      Look at what’s happened with the Indian invasion of Kashmir. Nothing.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  5th November 2019

        “I don’t imagine they’ll think the West will be too busy & preoccupied during Xmas season to really notice or care if they invade HK around then. When they do, it will be the headline news item all around the world.”

        That’s very true – however, with a Western population on holiday; likewise political institutions- we will have what you alluded to in your first paragraph – a ”muted response.”

        China knows they’ll get hammered on the world stage. But domestically, invading HK will be a godsend. The propaganda will be spun showing citizens that ultimately democracy doesn’t work, and ends in chaos. China will be glad to get rid of the last vestiges of dirty western influence. Better still, they will claim they held off invasion for more than reasonable amount of time.

        Btw..did you know China is nearly a cashless society. Like I have said, once we become cashless,we lose all privacy and unchecked freedom.

        Reply
    • Gezza

       /  5th November 2019

      3- India won’t sign a free trade deal with NZ and other countries. Go it alone PM. We need India under our belt before relations with China sour, or we are forced to choose alliances.
      And don’t forget Brazil.

      I didn’t quite get that one. On 1News last nite Damien O’Connor (one of Labour’s few solid Ministers with a few clues) made the point that The Indian representative told him frankly that giving NZ access for dairy products is problematic because “some of their [dairy] farmers have only two cows”.

      Modi is widely considered to have ramped up his anti-Pakistan rhetoric & engineered the invasion of Indian-administered Kashmir just before the election to generate a huge wave of Hindu nationalistic support, as in the lead up he was coming under a lot of fire for having completely failed to live up to his last campaigns election promises to improve the lot of all Indians & especially India’s poor.

      Modi won’t be keen to do anything that makes India’s millions of poor farmers worse off.

      Reply
    • duperez

       /  5th November 2019

      You reckon your Mikey will get Jian Yang in to talk about issues about China? Or Judith?

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  6th November 2019

      ‘Christopher Luxon. Heard him talking with Mikey. He has that same light sleezy feel that John Key had’
      yeah…yeah..

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  7th November 2019

        I will play the off-chance with you, Blazer.

        ”He has that same light sleezy feel that John Key had’’

        ”Breezy feel.”

        Mikey, btw, read off a list of bs statements Jacinda has spoken since becoming PM. I was able to cook my organic Quinoa… and make my Fair Trade Peruvian coffee with organic goats milk in the time Mikey took to read out her bs. 😒

        Reply
  10. Corky

     /  5th November 2019

    National cleans shop to make way for pure talent. Talking of cleaning shop, at last election, Labour HQ ridded itself of scruffy ferals and improved the dress code markedly. Will this continue under Jacinda?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117171219/national-mp-maggie-barry-announces-retirement-at-2020-election

    Reply
  11. I just saw an interview with the newest : Rich, middle-aged, white guy (Natl candidate). Asked on TV3 news how he feels on these recent issues:

    1) pregnancy abortion.., AGAINST
    2) end of life/euthanasia.. AGAINST
    3) personal adults cannabis use (reeferendum).. AGAINST
    4) Medicinal cannabis… ERRRR.. support it

    Current Botany MP, commented that ‘Mr newby’ is a member of some obscure church ?
    * does he have his own opinion.. OR is he just towing the church’s warped rules ? :/

    btw: where in the bible does it say ‘thou shall not consume cannabis’ ?
    It does say in Genesis ‘The earth brought forth GRASS, the HERB yielding seed.. God saw it was Good !!’
    ie God created it, for man to use.. corrupt men banned it & still seem to follow that line

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  5th November 2019

      Where in the Bible does it say … ?? There’s bound to be an ex-Aussie rugby player who’d know the answer to that one.

      Reply
    • Corky

       /  5th November 2019

      ”Current Botany MP, commented that ‘Mr newby’ is a member of some obscure church ?”

      Yeah, soon to be ex MP😂. What people do and say when they are desperate. It’s obvious Luxon is conservative. So why wouldn’t he join the Nats…even though they are nearly as liberal as Labour.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  5th November 2019

        Luxon is a bald headed ,bible bashing,borgeoise ,bitch…and a carpetbagger.

        Reply
        • Zedd

           /  6th November 2019

          onya Blzr

          Luxon said (paraphrased) ‘Natl are for all NZers’
          BUT which NZers are living in this NZ, he & many Nats are calling for ?
          a) rich, middle-aged, white guys.. mostly, who think they are ‘sitting on some moralistic high ground’. (somewhere in a 1950s mindset ?)

          Sounds more like ‘Welcome to MrTs fantasy Island’ 😀 :/

          Reply
      • Blazer

         /  5th November 2019

        Mr Bridges barks at every passing car..
        This Luxon is just…barking…(Rusell Brown)

        I had a look at The Upper Room, the Newmarket evangelical church that Christopher Luxon attends. I like the church’s focus on community and much of its mission work is creditable. But this recent sermon by founder Craig Heilman is … a bit weird.
        https://
        upperroom.org.nz/sermons/from-d
        arkness-to-light/

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  6th November 2019

          Remember this, Blazer? This chap wouldn’t condemn honour killings.

          Trust me, Luxon should be the least of your problems. He is white, has extensive business acumen and keeps his beliefs to himself. He ticks all the RIGHT boxes.

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3574941

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  6th November 2019

            I couldn’t find any reference to Ashraf Choudhary refusing to condemn honour killings with Google..

            Only a few references to his refusing to condemn the Quran’s advocating stoning of homosexuals & adulters in “other societies”, but saying that he didn’t advocate it here, in NZ, & that in those societies the Quran is always right.

            Nobody reporting on this back then seems to have investigated this very deeply. The Quran doesn’t say this.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  6th November 2019

              It was back in 2005. Mind you, it’s a bit disconcerting that, as a scientifically educated Muslim, Choudhary didn’t even know this, that he even attempted to justify the practice happening in Muslim societies elsewhere, & that Helen Clark didn’t publicly reprove him for this stance.

              He even got specifically mentioned in Norwegian neo-Nazi mass murderer Anders Breivik’s manifesto.

            • Corky

               /  6th November 2019

              ”I couldn’t find any reference to Ashraf Choudhary refusing to condemn honour killings with Google..”

              I may have got my wires crossed. I just remember the interview on TV with Choudhary squirming in his seat as the ‘hurt’ was applied.

              Basically, he settled for a dichotomy that such practices are acceptable in Muslim countries; but not New Zealand. However, from a human rights point of view he refused to condemn such barbaric practices.

  12. Corky

     /  6th November 2019

    Wow..President Trumpy takes care of business. Mexico can’t complain either.

    https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-trade-deficit-takes-biggest-tumble-eight-months

    President Trumpy ”house trains’ China.

    https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-trade-deficit-takes-biggest-tumble-eight-months

    Can you imagine this happening under Elizabeth Warren? Hell,no. The US would still be jumping through hoops and crawling to China.

    Reply
  13. Alan Wilkinson

     /  6th November 2019

    It’s morning and we have a Lefty government, so let’s ban something.

    Reply
  14. Corky

     /  6th November 2019

    Scam artists operate under the noses of an ignorant population. I wonder if mainstream media will quote scientists who disagree?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-emergency-scientists-emissions-letter-climate-change-a9185786.html

    Reply
  15. There’s been an interesting development in the Trump impeachment hearings overnight. Ambassador Sondland has offered substantial new testimony “revealing that he told a top Ukrainian official that the country likely would not receive American military aid unless it publicly committed to investigations President Trump wanted…. Sondland said, he had become convinced that military aid and a White House meeting were conditioned on Ukraine committing to those investigations.”

    In essence:

    Sondland: What I meant to say when I said ‘no quid pro quo’ was actually ‘substantial and verifiable quid pro quo.’

    Congress: Well why are you recanting you’re statement today?

    Sondland: Because a parade of witnesses for the last two weeks has point by point called me out on my lies.

    Ambassador Sondland is learning an important lesson: stick your neck out for criminals and they’ll quietly watch you hang. It’s poignant that he paid Trump US$1m to buy his ambassadorship and learn this lesson.

    Reply
  16. Gezza

     /  6th November 2019

    Who is the average Kiwi now?

    Every five years, the New Zealand Census asks us to tell the statisticians who we are. Surely, from all that data, it must be possible to glean an idea of what an ‘average’ New Zealander truly looks like now, as the population heads towards 5 million?

    So RNZ did just that, analysing the most common answers to questions from the 2018 Census – known in statistical language as the mode. In other words: for each question, who is the dominant group of people? Women outnumber men, just (the Census doesn’t have a gender-diverse response, yet). The most common ethnicity is Pākehā. More people live in Auckland than any other place in New Zealand – and so on.

    Putting together all those most common answers, it’s possible to piece together who that ‘normal’ New Zealander might be. She is Pākehā, about 37, was born in New Zealand and lives in Auckland, with a partner or spouse in a house they own. She drives a car most days to her full-time job. Her highest qualification is high school, she doesn’t smoke, and she doesn’t believe in any kind of god. She most likely doesn’t have children, but if she does, she’s got two.

    She’s changed a little since the 2013 Census – back then, she was renting, and she appears to have given up religion in the intervening five years.

    But wait … it’s much more complicated than that …
    … … … …
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117197790/does-the-average-kiwi-exist-or-is-it-a-myth

    Reply
  17. Well, well, well… a big upset in Kentucky, home state of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

    Kentucky was a deep-red state that Trump won by 30 points in 2016. In today’s election Democrat Andy Beshear has defeated Trump-loving Governor Matt Bevin.

    Since President Trump took office, Democrats have flipped governorships in: Kansas, Nevada, New Mexico, New Jersey, Illinois, Maine, Wisconsin, Michigan, and now, Kentucky. Maybe that last governorship will have Moscow Mitch sounding the alarms.

    Reply
    • Oh, and the Dems have also just won control of the Virginia General Assembly giving them total control of the state government for the first time since 1994.

      This is a serious Catch-22 for Republicans. If you start attracting businesses to your state, your state turns from red to purple, then blue. It seems the only way to keep a state permanently red is to turn it into an economic backwater.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  6th November 2019

        It feels weird having to make the mental adjustment when looking at the US political map to recognise that over there the conservatives’ colour is red, & the liberal/progressives/Labourite colour is blue. Unlike most other countries where its the other way round.

        Well, Trump made a wasted visit to Kentucky, didn’t he?

        Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  6th November 2019

          Sounds like the Republican Governor was very unpopular and Democrat was the son of previous popular Governor. Republican’s problems in the suburbs continue.
          Mississippi Republican wins Governorship but with much reduced margin

          Reply
          • Patzcuaro

             /  6th November 2019

            Trump has the knack of mobilising voters unfortunately for the Republicans he also mobilises Democrats as well.

            Reply
  18. Corky

     /  7th November 2019

    Elder abuse from a feral Greenie. She might have quipped that phrase in jest, but it’s a Freudian slip that exposes an attitude most Greenies ( and others) have towards the Baby Boomer generation.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/chl-e-swarbrick-quips-ok-boomer-national-mp-during-climate-speech

    Reply
  19. Corky

     /  7th November 2019

    National has just lost the election. You gutless mealy-mouthed wankers. Congratulations to socialists on this blog. Aotearoa now down the gurgler.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117244331/national-will-support-climate-change-zero-carbon-bill

    Reply
  20. Gezza

     /  8th November 2019

    Trump ordered to pay US$ 2m for misusing his charitable foundation to further his political campaign

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/07/trump-ordered-to-pay-2-million-to-settle-trump-foundation-suit.html

    Reply
  21. Corky

     /  8th November 2019

    What’s going on?

    Don’t know if this is happening in other places, but my supermarket was packed by 9 am.
    All organic oats and berries were sold out. All pies, sausage rolls, energy drinks and big chucks of confectionery were gone, leaving empty shelves.

    What does this tell us? Both ferals and the middleclass are on the move. Early holidays; stocking up for Xmas, or getting in the xmas spirit and spending money they don’t have. I’ve never seen this situation before at my local supermarket.

    ps: for the second time in two years I saw a bro being tasered. He was in the carpark with two bro police officers surrounding him. He was shouting abuse about how he would wipe the officers whanau’s out. He received his first tasering. He shook like a rag doll, but unbelievably stabilised himself and charged. The second officer tasered him. He dropped to the ground and a couple of meat packs fell out from under his jacket. He also ‘fouled’ himself. This fool threatened a bro’s whanau. I’m sure there’s more waiting for him when he’s taken back to the holding cells.

    What does this tell us? The number of people who are prepared to hurt or kill you has exploded in number over the years. This chap was ready to take on police officers. What do you think he would do to you in a similar situation?

    Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  8th November 2019

      Daigou. Supermarket pillage by chinese back home with money buying food they can trust using personal shoppers with cellphones. You are an observant fellow corky. Watch for them

      https://amp.scmp.com/week-asia/business/article/2109396/daigou-down-under-chinese-shopping-trend-taking-australia-storm

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  8th November 2019

        Damn, never heard of that before. I know about the milk powder, Asians buy that up large. The very expensive ‘goats milk baby formula’ shelf is always empty. A supermarket worker told me a couple of years ago, Asians wipe that out the minute it’s put on the shelf.
        But I didn’t realise such a practice was so pervasive. I know our colostrum and bodybuilding products are also big sellers. Makes you realise why we must remain GMO free. New Zealand products are the gold standard for many food items.

        Reply
  22. Corky

     /  10th November 2019

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/110205536/is-a-bluegreen-party-a-real-possibility

    Yes it is. I can’t see how it will work. Of course, it doesn’t have to work. It only has to suck in enough voters to get National across the line. Although it would seem the Left should benefit from such a party, I’m guessing it will be a sink hole for a broad spectrum of dissatisfied voters.

    Let the Reich begin.

    Reply
    • Duker

       /  10th November 2019

      It isn’t supposed to ‘work’, the real plan is to steal soft green voters so that the real Green party falls under 5%, and kills off Labour’s chances.
      Laboud needs to play it’s own game with a conservative Christian party headed by an ex labour MP

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  10th November 2019

        Hmm. That could maybe suck some unintelligent Pasifika votes away from Labour.
        It’ll be interesting to see how Tava’s Sustainable New Zealand Party goes. I personally don’t think it will pull many votes away from the Greens. I doubt many people who voted Green did so solely for their ecological & AGWCC policies. My bet is that most also approved of their leftist social justice agenda.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  10th November 2019

          Tava tried the Greens ..rejected,then the Nats..rejected..the new Gilbert Myles..Mr Sincerity.

          Reply
  23. Corky

     /  10th November 2019

    New online school will bypass old/new Marxist dinosaurs currently indoctrinating our young in state education. It’s about excellent. And this new school has the RIGHT people.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12283298

    Reply
  24. Corky

     /  11th November 2019

    Mikey says there will be a big back down by the government over education tomorrow.

    Reply
  25. Corky

     /  11th November 2019

    Hmmm…the dynamics of this blog has changed over the last few days. Maybe Slabface is having ”issues?”

    Reply

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