Warning of ‘untold suffering’ from climate change

I have thought that doom and gloom preached by climate activists has been a bit extreme and more likely to turn off popular support for much more drastic action than anything.

But many scientists are also making grave warnings.

I don’t think we can carry on as if there is no problem with little more than hot air from politicians. We have to make significant changes to how we live, as individuals, as a country, and as a planet. The worst that can happen is we will be better off – and more importantly, future generations will be better off, and our planet will be better off. And we could prevent much worse from happening.

Stuff: ‘Untold suffering’: Global scientists warn of climate emergency

More than 11,000 scientists from around the world have declared a “climate emergency”, warning of “untold suffering” and calling for action ranging from curbing human population to leaving fossil fuels in the ground.

The unusual international collaboration, published in BioScience journal, was backed by more than 350 Australian scientists, including 10 current or ex-CSIRO researchers. Signatories hailed from 153 countries.

Despite warnings being issued for decades that rising greenhouse gases would disrupt the climate – and a slew of summits and treaties – such emissions have continued to rise with “increasingly damaging effects”.

“An immense increase of scale in endeavours to conserve our biosphere is needed to avoid untold suffering due to the climate crisis,” the article said.

Some of us in temperate New Zealand could shrug and smugly say that a few warmer days would be good. But it’s much more complex than that.  A few more storms and floods and maybe droughts could have a big impact here. As could population pressure from elsewhere in the world if overcrowding, pressure on food and water resources and  less a liveable climate push people to higher and lower latitudes.

We are not just facing possible climate change issues. Alongside that an expanding population will make adverse effects harder to deal with.

The researchers – members of the Alliance of World Scientists – identified six critical steps governments, business “and the rest of humanity” can take, including leaving remaining stocks of fossil fuels untapped and “carefully pursuing effective negative emissions”, such as “enhancing natural systems”.

The signatories also highlighted population, a target often omitted in climate debates. The report noted the number of humans was swelling at the rate of 200,000 people per day, or more than 80 million a year.

Populations “must be stabilised – and ideally, gradually reduced”, it said. Strengthening human rights, including making education “a global norm for all, especially girls”, were ways to stem population growth.

Those of us who already have families, and perhaps grandchildren, may not see much in this. But there are signs that a growing number of young people are not only concerned about their own future, they are also seriously concerned about the future of the planet, to the extent that they are thinking of having only one child or no children.

If this happens to any degree it will also eventually have a big impact on an aging population. Our age demographic is already getting top heavy through better health extending lives, and smaller and more delayed families.

“If you have a rising human population, there’s the need for more food and the need for more energy,” said Thomas Newsome, one of the paper’s authors and a lecturer at the University of Sydney, Australia.

I’m amazed that much more isn’t being done to conserve energy and reduce energy needs.

Newsome said the impacts of climate change already underway were broad-ranging, prompting concern if not alarm from researchers ranging from human health to ecology and the social sciences.

Charlie Veron, a marine biologist accredited with naming about one-fifth of the world’s coral species and among the signatories, said climate change “was a lot, lot more serious than the general public realises”.

Young people in particular “should make as much noise as they can”, Veron said, referring to the recent school strikes for climate action. “They are facing a world that will be absolutely horrible place.”

The loss of half the Great Barrier Reef’s corals in two consecutive summers of mass bleaching had failed to prompt action. “It’s still not taken seriously,” he said. “What’s it take to wake the country up?”

Climate impact on our neighbour Australia will have a significant impact on us here.

Linden Ashcroft, a lecturer in climate science and science communication at The University of Melbourne in Australia, said the report “adds to the roar from all fields of science needs to be taken now”.

Other steps people should take include eating mostly plant-based foods to reduce methane and other emissions, saving remaining primary forests to protect biodiversity, and shifting to a carbon-free economy based on renewable energy, the report said.

We should all be doing more than considering changing our diets and our style of living. We can and should be making positive changes – this will likely benefit our own health anyway, and may help the health of others and our planet.

There will always be some who grumble and claim that there is nothing wrong and/or nothing we can or should do differently.

But the weight of science (as imperfect as climate science is it is leaning strongly towards drastic effects and drastic actions) and the growing strength of public realisation and acceptance of personal and collective responsibility.

The worst that can happen if we do something about it is we will likely be better off, healthier.

The worst that can happen if we pretend we are not adversely affecting our planet is difficult to predict, but it could easily be very bad, perhaps not for us, but for future generations.

We can do much more about it, and should. On an individual level it doesn’t need to be drastic change, but we should be moving in better direction.


See also…

The Independent – ‘Untold human suffering’: 11,000 scientists from across world unite to declare global climate emergency

Washington Post – Trump makes it official: U.S. will withdraw from the Paris climate accord

The Trump administration notified the international community Monday that it plans to officially withdraw from the Paris climate accord next fall, a move that will leave the world’s second-largest emitter of greenhouse gases as the only nation to abandon the global effort to combat climate change.

President Trump has long criticized the 2015 accord and insisted that the United States would exit it as soon as possible. As recently as last month, Trump called the agreement “a total disaster” and argued that the Obama administration’s pledges to cut carbon emissions under the deal would have “hurt the competitiveness” of the United States.

In a statement Monday afternoon, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said the administration had sent official notification of its plans to the United Nations.

“In international climate discussions, we will continue to offer a realistic and pragmatic model — backed by a record of real world results — showing innovation and open markets lead to greater prosperity, fewer emissions, and more secure sources of energy,” Pompeo said. “We will continue to work with our global partners to enhance resilience to the impacts of climate change and prepare for and respond to natural disasters.”

Time: Trump’s Paris Agreement Move Is Unpopular. Here’s How He’s Trying to Spin It.

By leaving the landmark climate deal, Trump would fulfill a campaign promise, pleasing some of his supporters in the fossil fuel industry while angering mostly those unlikely to support him anyway.

But since then the politics have changed: climate change is now one of the most-discussed issues in the 2020 presidential race and the vast majority of Americans say they support measures to reduce emissions, including the Paris Agreement.

While Trump’s policy agenda on climate hasn’t changed to meet the political moment, there are signs suggesting that his messaging has. He’s largely stopped making the brazenly inaccurate claim that climate change is a “hoax,” instead making a more nuanced but also spurious claim that climate policy would mean wrecking the economy.

In a statement Monday announcing the U.S. withdrawal, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said the U.S. “has reduced all types of emissions” and claimed the Paris Agreement imposed an “unfair economic burden” on the U.S. This is the other side of Trump’s new climate messaging plan: he and his Administration argue that Democratic policies aligned with scientific consensus will destroy the economy.

In a telling interview on the podcast Climate 2020, John McLaughlin, one of Trump’s top pollsters, acknowledged that the “vast majority of Americans” know that climate change is happening, but said that they remain skeptical of the costs, hinting at how the Trump campaign might try to explain its inaction on the issue. Specifically talking about leaving the popular Paris deal, McLaughlin suggested that Trump needed to hammer home his talking points about jobs. “Voters are highly cynical,” he said. “They don’t want to lose their jobs over this and they don’t want to pay a lot of money.”

Not doing enough could destroy the US economy, but that’s probably a longer term risk – beyond the current presidential term.

 

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75 Comments

  1. Gerrit

     /  6th November 2019

    Two thoughts;

    How many Chinese and Indian “scientists” are in the 11,000? And are the “free” to add their voice? No amount of hand wringing or teeth gnashing by 11000 western trained (indoctrinated and relying on university/state cash grants) is going to change the climate unless India and China are onboard.

    With increased birthrates in, aspiring to achieve first world status, communities;

    Africans reproduce at a rate of 5.6 per breeder, Muslims reproduce at a rate of 4.8 per breeder, Hispanics reproduce at a rate of 4.4 per breeder, how can population control be done by reducing birthrates. In first world countries the birthrate is below 2 so dropping but no signs of reducing the birthrate “developing” countries.

    How will the earth population reduce naturally? We can easily reduce it by force or as the Chinese do by forced sterilisation of anyone who does not meet the profile of racial and religious purity.

    https://nypost.com/2019/08/13/muslim-women-reportedly-sterilized-in-chinese-re-education-camps/

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  6th November 2019

      How many Chinese and Indian “scientists” are in the 11,000? And are the “free” to add their voice?

      I can’t open the .zip file of signatories in the scientists’ (linked) statement on my iPad 2, (maybe somebody else can on their lappy or other device ?) but as China & India have both signed the Paris Agreement I would assume the majority of their cimate scientists are on board with AGWCC.

      As of May 2019, 194 states and the European Union have signed the Agreement. 186 states and the EU, representing almost 97% of global greenhouse gas emissions, have ratified or acceded to the Agreement, including China, the United States (who is intent on leaving) and India, the countries with three of the four largest greenhouse gas emissions of the UNFCC members total (about 42% together).All 197 UNFCCC members have either signed or acceded to the Paris Agreement.
      – Wikipedia

      Also, are you citing a hispanic birthrate or a latino one? The two are not interchangeable. Do you got a link?

      As a result of the one child policy, and couples favouring males, the Chinese now have something like 3 million single young men with no hope of finding a Chinese wife, & to compound the problem apparently the male birthrate is currently higher than the female one.

      Reply
    • The global Muslim birth rate is 3.1, not 4.8/

      Reply
      • Sorry, PDT; it’s true. Look it up if you don’t believe me.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  7th November 2019

          How doi they really know that ‘global’ number. Just as there really isnt a global temperature for a whole year, or a global seal level.
          Sure a group of ME, North Africa and central asia countries are virtually entirely Muslim, but plenty have Muslims too . Russia , China, Nigeria Kenya and the biggy India. How to they seperate out the Muslim babys from the Hindu or others babies.
          They cant, even if they had western style birth records, which they dont.

          See its not just climate that Im a sceptic on numbers that ‘dont mean what you think they do’

          Reply
    • alloytoo

       /  7th November 2019

      The list includes Mickey Mouse, Dumbledore, about a thousand people with the title “student” and who knows what else, it’s very apparent that it’s been lifted without much consideration from an online petition.

      I do find it amusing that the “Argumentum ad populum” is also popular among Intelligent design advocates and young earth creationists.

      Reply
  2. Trevors_elbow

     /  6th November 2019

    As the resistance and questioning ramps up from the skeptical.. the claims of crisis and demands school kids take action ramps up from the true believers to try and force the socialist model changes they want before their faith is exposed as being based on over hyped and exaggerated claims..

    Beware TINO…. beware those demand change and not making reasoned provable o
    points..

    I’m skeptical of the rate of change and man being the prime driver if change. The climate is incredibly complex and there is no model that replicates it and predicts the future accurately from my readings…

    Reply
  3. MaureenW

     /  6th November 2019

    Of course the upside of the climate alarmism, is that more people will live in water-front properties:)

    Reply
  4. Corky

     /  6th November 2019

    Just heard David Seymour on talkback. He said the Zero Carbon Bill before parliament would give the Climate Change Minister power over all aspects of our lives relating to emissions. He also said we have to follow this course of action because our trading partners would use non compliance as a weapon against us during trade negotiations. Isn’t that what the UN wants – countries implementing its agenda and pressuring countries that don’t?

    That said, the man believes CO2 has a part to play in climate change…that means he’s ultimately a climate change scammer.

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  6th November 2019

      I see your hero (MrT) the ‘Climate denier in Chief’ has announced he is pulling USA out of the ‘Paris accord’.. preaching to the C-C denier choir & bolstering the fossil-fuel industry’s profit margins ! 😦 😦 😦

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  6th November 2019

        Im suggesting MrT get his head out of his A & perhaps visit Delhi (chocking in smog at the moment) & then tell the world its still a myth !

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  6th November 2019

          A significant proportion of this smog is caused every year at this time by poor farmers in surrounding areas & provinces generating massive amounts of smoke pollution burning off the stubble in harvested fields to prepare them for the next sowing.

          One of their Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s many failed electoral promises was to help poor farmers improve their lot & modernise their agricultural practices. They all got sucked in by his pro-Hindu nationalism, anti-Pakistan rhetoric & invasion of Indian-administered Kashmir & voted him back in again because of that. He will now be coming under pressure to live up to his other promises.

          Reply
          • Zedd

             /  6th November 2019

            I hear you Gezza.. BUT If the C-C denier-in-chief keeps up his B-S rhetoric.. more of the world could start looking more like that.
            Ive been to India & frankly i dont think animal like on earth, will exist much longer, if something drastic is not done soon, to try turn this around !

            There is no Planet B nearby, we can move to.. We in the 50+ generation, may not be effected.. BUT to use the old saying ‘For God’s sake think of the children’ who will have to cope with it 😦

            Theres another saying about ‘you can create all the wealth you think you need.. BUT at the end of the day, you cant eat MONEY/gold’

            oh dear, how sad.. BUT I do mind.. Sgt-Major

            Reply
            • Zedd

               /  6th November 2019

              oops typo: ‘Ive been to India & frankly i dont think animal LIFE on earth, ‘

      • MaureenW

         /  6th November 2019

        Are there any legally binding terms to the Paris Agreement?
        Kyoto failed and that was legally binding, Paris, which is not legally binding is likely to be a stunning success then.

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  6th November 2019

          For US no as it wasnt ratified by Senate. Most other countries have different ways of making it legal after signing.
          Not sure what NZ had to do after Paula and Simon ( ha!) signed for NZ in 2017.

          Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  6th November 2019

      The fact that someone believes that CO2 has a part to play doesn’t mean that they are a climate change scammer at all. Many people believe that it plays a part without believing that it’s the ONLY reason or even the main one.

      An Indian friend who lives in Delhi says that the enormous number of Diwali fireworks have contributed to the current pollution.

      Reply
  5. MaureenW

     /  6th November 2019

    What a day of fear porn .. Untold Suffering from climate change, 1000 deaths predicted from tsunami (yet to hit) .. the lame stream media is now in the business of predictions rather than news. Never fear, I read reports the other day for those living in the vicinity of the Alpine fault, that they need to prepare for a catastrophe, as no-one would be coming to help.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117165503/1000-deaths-and-widespread-destruction-following-tsunami-warns-report
    I’m more interested in the psychology behind delivering daily doses of fear porn, than the events being predicted. Keep the sheep happy they haven’t been screwed by a “big one” while they’re being screwed over with hundreds of small one’s every day?

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  6th November 2019

      We are all gonna die. It will be horrible. Lurchy’s ‘choppers’ will melt in his mouth. Kitty’s signed copy of Latin For Future Generations ( signed by Nero) will turn to dust. And Pete’s newly renovated house will soon be under 60 feet of water. I’m writing absolute nonsense of course. I just wish the media would also perceive the same regarding what they report..or choose to report.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  6th November 2019

        At least you admit for once that you’re talking absolute nonsense. Why bother to write it if you know that it is ?

        Reply
        • MaureenW

           /  6th November 2019

          .. because it’s quite funny.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  6th November 2019

            I find it tiresome, I must say, because Corky never seems to know when to let something drop.

            He’s been going on about Lurchy’s false teeth and his supposed diet of crackers, cheese and chutney for as long as I’ve been on YNZ !!! He goes on and on like a stuck record about other things as well, and it becomes very tedious.

            Reply
            • Zedd

               /  6th November 2019

              ‘I find it tiresome, I must say, because Corky never seems to know when to let something drop.’ sez kitty

              I agree 100%.. but one thing I realised, soon after I became ‘a regular’ in here; who its not worth getting annoyed with, because methinks, some folks (inc. Corky) get a cheap thrill from adding inane/provocative drivel… rather than rational, educated debate

              kitty ..may I suggest you just LOL or just ignore them ? 🙂 😀

            • MaureenW

               /  6th November 2019

              I’ve always found that people who continually say “methinks” in social media posts, usually “don’t-thinks” much.But I’ll take you final advice on the LOL’s.

            • Zedd

               /  6th November 2019

              @Maureen W

              METHINKS you are a corky supporter.. So I’ll just LOL too 😀 😀

            • Zedd

               /  6th November 2019

              btw: Methinks.. that using ‘methinks’ means I actually have an opinion of my own & Im not just parroting the inane drivel from others eg MrT 😀

            • Zedd

               /  6th November 2019

              oh dear.. how sad… never mind…. OH; am Im just parroting Sgt-Major SHUTUP again ? :/

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  7th November 2019

              The problem with Corky, Zedd, is that much of what he says about people is outright lies. He was moderated for a while because of the untrue, uncalled for things he said about me…one being that the people across the road from me, a young Pakeha professional couple whom I had never mentioned here were, in my words, feral Maoris. According to him, I don’t own my house (I do), I don’t have insurance (I do) and I never had a husband (I did, he died of cancer) There have been many other lies about me, of course, as well as about other people and racial groups.

              When his lies are refuted, which they can easily be,he becomes vicious.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  7th November 2019

            ‘in his words, feral Maoris’; I wouldn’t call anyone that, and wouldn’t call a Pakeha a Maori. He also said that Pickled Possum is not a Maori woman although two people here know her and know that she’s both. His other lies are too many to remember, let alone mention.

            Reply
  6. Corky

     /  6th November 2019

    TV1 news is riling me up tonight. 😡😡😡😡!!

    1- It starts with warning after warning about what will be broadcast regarding the Grace Millian case. We then had another waster on to explain the previous warnings..and to issue some of his own. The reality was a dry presentation with nothing needing a warning in my opinion, given few watch this bs.

    2-Jack Tame speaking pidgin English regarding our coming cashless society. He talked of pūtea ( money, finances). Thanks, Jack…but why didn’t you put your effort into reporting some real facts. The clip said that ” 80% of kiwis now used cards, and only 333.000 people relied on cash. That’s bullshite because people like me, and there are many, used both cash and cards. Cards for transactions that don’t matter. Cash for privacy. I doubt Jack would be able to wrap his head around what that meant.

    3- The Climate Change scam with no rebuttal from scientists and folk who disagree. It was presented as fact.

    Reply
    • MaureenW

       /  6th November 2019

      If you google “untold suffering”, you’ll find this article repeated in most MSM media publications.
      Looking at videos of the homelessness situation in LA, that looks more like untold suffering to me. Gated communities, Hollywood, some of the best addresses in the world and people are crapping on the streets.
      Let’s have some Climate change fear porn so folks won’t notice.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  6th November 2019

        Those Gated Communiteers & snooty Hollywood rich pricks will get their comeuppance eventually, Maureen, for sure. Climate Change will be bringing the annual California wildfires to their street sooner than they know. 🔥🏠🔥

        Reply
        • MaureenW

           /  6th November 2019

          Whatever, from what I read it’s because the Local Government won’t address Parks maintenance as far as the extent of fire is concerned.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  6th November 2019

            Are you reading Trump’s Twitting feed?

            Reply
            • MaureenW

               /  6th November 2019

              No, not really.
              What do you think G, we have our own homelessness problems here, mothers and children living in cars .. is it a climate change problem?

              Three murder stories dominating the news today *after you pass climate change porn – 1 Man with “greatest father in the world teeshirt kills stepson, Doctor kills teenage girl, purportedly to cover up interest in underage girls, Man kills Grace Millane because he was having a sexy time half strangling her.
              For me, those that were created to protect women and children, kill them. Yet fires in California, where the Local Government won’t take neccesary steps to prevent, is the problem. Climate change porn is the problem .. don’t look at what’s happening in your own communities, it would make you vomit.

            • Gezza

               /  6th November 2019

              Fires: Trump threatens to pull federal aid
              https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50284656

              California wildfires: Is Trump right when he blames California’s forest managers?
              https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46183690

              Nope. As ignorant as ever. Probably saw some bs on Fox TV.

            • MaureenW

               /  6th November 2019

              Are you saying that if Trump wasn’t President, this wouldn’t have happened?

            • Gezza

               /  6th November 2019

              @ Maureen

              No. Where did I say anything like that? I’m asking where you get the idea California’s wildfires are so devastating because the Local Government won’t address Parks maintenance. The only place I’ve seen that one coming from is Trump – the world’s most famous bullshitter.

          • MaureenW

             /  6th November 2019

            Where do you get news that you believe Gezza, Aljazara?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  6th November 2019

              I get a lot more international news on AlJazeera English than any tv news channel here, Maureen, & a lot more perspectives on significant events seeing they employ on the spot reporters of all nationalities.

              But I don’t take any news item from anywhere these days as gospel. I usually check other news sources online if I want different perspectives or to check facts. On some topics Aljaz tv is neutral, & on some topics they have a pretty clear bias. They are firmly in the anti-Trump camp, for example. But I’m aware of that & I don’t accept all their reporting on Trump at face value.

              I don’t buy into their biases. I much prefer to develop my own, like you 😉

      • Gezza

         /  6th November 2019

        @ Maureen

        What do you think G, we have our own homelessness problems here, mothers and children living in cars .. is it a climate change problem?

        Yes, we do have a homelessness problem here, Maureen, & no, it’s not a climate change problem. I don’t know what the current homeless numbers are, it only gets reported on infrequently, but I have a feeling they’ve actually gone up under Winston’s coalition government.

        Three murder stories dominating the news today *after you pass climate change porn – 1 Man with “greatest father in the world teeshirt kills stepson, Doctor kills teenage girl, purportedly to cover up interest in underage girls, Man kills Grace Millane because he was having a sexy time half strangling her.

        I don’t think you can complain about there not being enuf murder porn reported in comparison to Climate Change porn. The tv & online media will be pumping out every gory detail they’re allowed to that hasn’t been suppressed, while we sit there trying to figure out why we can look at the mug of one of the accused & know who he is, while we csn’t don’t do the same with the other bastard.

        For me, those that were created to protect women and children, kill them.

        I don’t know what to say to that, Maureen. It makes good men everywhere so mad we could throttle the bastards with our own bare hands. But, where these days are the rules & dads that young ladies used to have to bring home for a talk & a once-over by a protective, loving father, before they were even allowed to go out with them on a date?

        Yet fires in California, where the Local Government won’t take neccesary steps to prevent, is the problem. Climate change porn is the problem .. don’t look at what’s happening in your own communities, it would make you vomit.

        I don’t think local government in California is the problem that’s causing the wildfires. That’s Trumpanzee repeater bs, imo. There’s plenty of analysis online of why those fires are happening & CC is part of it.

        What’s happening in some of our own communities does make me despair. I don’t have an easy answer to how to stop vulnerable women getting murdered by sordid scum men. Except to tell them to be more careful who they hook up with.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  7th November 2019

          I don’t think that there was ever a time when girls brought boys home to be given the once-over by wise, loving parents and took their advice before they were let to go out with them. Some did and some probably do now. But history shows that this was never universal.

          I have read a lot of history and have a collection of old magazines and papers going back to the 1880s, The problem pages often have letters from parents whose daughters are infatuated with the sort of boys who are obviously very bad news and who want to know what they can do about this.

          When I was 17 and a student nurse, one of the older girls was convinced that her violent jealous boyfriend, later fiance, would change when they were married, because then he’d be sure of her. The violence wasn’t major – then. My guess is that once the ring was on her finger, and they were behind closed doors, it would be.

          My mother’s friend was married to a man who was extremely violent; a big, handsome, charming bloke whom everyone liked. She didn’t go to the police; he was the local police sergeant.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  7th November 2019

            Do the PDTs think that violence is all right and shouldn’t be criticised ? Too bizarre.

            Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  7th November 2019

          California fires are worse because there is more fuel and were sometimes triggered by electrical faults because their electricity company has been regulated into near bankruptcy. Not sure how you manage to blame Trump or climate change for any of that.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  7th November 2019

            I haven’t blamed Trump for them.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  7th November 2019

              Go on. You know you want to.

            • Gezza

               /  8th November 2019

              No I don’t. He has enough faults already & continually adds to the list. There’s no need to invent fake sins for him.

              Aljazeera tv is reporting this morning that in the latest development John Bolton has agreed to testify against Trump, but I haven’t seen it reported elsewhere yet. It’s a bit odd-sounding. He’s reportedly agreed to testify “if a federal court clears the way”.

              Their reporter claims he was furious that he was being cut out of the picture in the shoddy Trump blackmail attempt to tie military aid to Ukraine to their President first publicly announcing they were investigating the Bidens. He is said to have described this back door diplomacy by amateurs as “like a drug deal” & the reporter said his views on this led to his departure from Trump’s cabal (it’s apparently still unclear whether he resigned or was sacked).

            • Gezza

               /  8th November 2019

              Hmm, it seems from a Reuters article that Bolton’s lawyers (Jeez the US must be sinking under the weight of lawyers; everybody seems to have a team of them lightening their wallets) have now said Bolton would agree to testify if the House Committee subpoenas him AND a federal court confirms that the subpoena does legally compel him to testify.

  7. Zedd

     /  7th November 2019

    yahoo national vote for zero carbon !

    I nearly clapped at Todd Muller

    🙂

    Reply
  8. Alan Wilkinson

     /  7th November 2019

    Yes, if the climate alarmists get their way there will be untold suffering from climate change.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  7th November 2019

      (The Lefty media will make sure it is untold.)

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  7th November 2019

        duly noted Alan :/

        Reply
        • Duker

           /  8th November 2019

          More people are killed ( or in reality die 6 months ‘early’) by the cold weather than hot. 32,000 per year in UK alone and they are only the 6th highest rate in Europe.
          Excess UK summer deaths ? 630 !

          Reply
  9. Corky

     /  8th November 2019

    PM confirms to Mikey that our trading partners expect us to be pulling our weight regarding the limiting green house gases. David Seymour was right.

    That’s what happens when you have a PM who isn’t a patriot. Who puts others above her own country. And to think we are getting three more years of her and her lousy government.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  8th November 2019

      Well that’s just realpolitik. Every other party leader would be doing the same thing. It’s nothing to do with patriotism. In fact you could argue they were being patriotic by acting in the best interests of NZ as there’s no point in getting off side with our trading partners.

      I think you’re also massively over-reaching by equating holding your views on AGWCC as being patriotic.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  8th November 2019

        ”I think you’re also massively over-reaching by equating holding your views on AGWCC as being patriotic.”

        Guilty. I would rather the money we send to others as part of our contribution to fighting climate change, be spent on our needy…and not a bunch of ‘finger food leeches ‘ at the UN.

        The science isn’t settled. Dishonest research and agendas have been proven. And we, the taxpayer, are expected to support this? We warn our elderly about phone scams..yet our polllies continue to scam us out of millions…for what?

        You may need to question your loyalty to our country? And maybe what our priorities should be?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  8th November 2019

          Well, I certainly have no need to question my loyalty to this country, Corks. When I look around the world & at history I’m forever grateful to have been born & have lived in this country at the time I have, They don’t come any more nationalistic & patriotic than me.

          As for AGWCC, I think it’s more likely true than not. But that their doomsday predictions that haven’t matched up with reality (such as catastrophic global sea level rise that should have occurred by now according to their early timelines) have done them a disservice.

          Dishinest research & agendas haven’t been proven. They are disputed.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  8th November 2019

            😠 *Dishonest

            Reply
          • johanna

             /  10th November 2019

            Dishonest research and agendas HAVE been proven by wikileaks release of emails between Michael Mann and Dr Johnson of the climate research centre at UEA Norwich. Discussed is how they will manipulate results and remove the “problematic medieval warming period” peer-review each others work exclusively and withhold data from other peers and discuss the financial payoffs they are getting from their masters to produce this global warming evidence. They also agreed they would delete their emails (nothing is ever really deleted, hahaha) Its especially interesting for me personally because the emails are from the late 1990s when I was sadly paying UEA tuition to learn this propaganda. See Dr TIm Ball’s excellent presentation for a breakdown of this collusion and thorough global warming hoax debunking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owm25OHGglk&t=4590s

            Reply
  10. Corky

     /  8th November 2019

    Just caught the tail end of a climate change scamming professor on Kerre’s show. He was asked a very good question: basically the caller asked him, given animals take their carbon from the atmosphere in many guises, they are therefore carbon neutral…they are not creating new carbon. Now, that’s a good point that I haven’t studied,so I can’t proffer an opinion.

    What I tell you is the good professors previous fluid language and points, suddenly became punctuated with many umms and rrs. He than starting talking, in my opinion, in an incoherent jumble. Kerre, of course, could have jumped in at that stage and really pushed this scammer.
    She didn’t. She has no problem being curt with callers though.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  8th November 2019

      Would probably have to hear that discussion to make much sense of it. What has animals being carbon neutral got to do with anything?

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  8th November 2019

        This makes the same argument
        View at Medium.com
        Firstly a lot of the ’emissions’ of say meat is the land use and supply chain including transport and refrigeration.\
        Yes Cows create methane CH4, it didnt exist in that form before the cow ate the grass, but surely the grass or vegetation would have died and stayed in soil. Somehow growing crops which feed humans is supposed to be better than using the cow as the ‘middle man’ ( and one that burps/farts a lot) and requires ‘refrigeration’
        Its an interesting point of view and Ill have to look into more

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  8th November 2019

          Well it’s not the same point Corky states above, although it might have been what he missed being discussed, or he might have misinterpreted the discussion the tail enf bit that he heard. This focuses on methane, a much more potent GHG than CO2. I don’t think leaving fodder in the ground to die and eventually rot would produce the same amount of methane as ruminants do because they’re cropping it regularly, (well, pastures anyway) causing continous regrowth; thus more mass & more methane than if grasses were left to die off in their unmanaged cycle.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  8th November 2019

            Sht!
            *from the tail end bit that he heard.

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  10th November 2019

            The methane is just an intermediary in the carbon cycle. It decomposes into CO2 and water. The point that agriculture fundamentally cycles carbon and doesn’t add to it is one I have made before. Until it employs fossil fuels of course.

            Reply
        • Gezza

           /  8th November 2019

          Oh, I see now –

          While methane is 28-times more heat-trapping than carbon dioxide, methane’s lifespan is just a decade, while CO2 — known as a long-life pollutant — remains in the atmosphere for 1000 years.

          After ten years, methane is broken down in a process called hydroxyl oxidation into CO2, entering a carbon cycle which sees the gas absorbed by plants, converted into cellulose, and eaten by livestock.

          To put that into context, each year 558m tons of methane is produced globally, with 188m tons coming from agriculture. Almost that entire quantity — 548m tons — is broken down through oxidation and absorbed by plants and soils as part of the sink effect.

          That means that provided no new animals are added to the system, then the same amount of carbon dioxide produced by livestock is actually used by plants during photosynthesis.

          “That’s not to say livestock has no impact on climate, but we are not adding additional warming,” Prof Mitloehner says.

          That’s interesting.

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  10th November 2019

            Its really the modern day equivalent of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin… eternal doom awaits the carbon sinners….
            The natural carbon cycle has enormous variations and lack of understanding of the numbers ( mostly guesses) anyway. And we do know one thing we are in a warm period between ice ages , which will return – maybe a little ice age or the full version- no matter what we do.

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  10th November 2019

            I explained that to you ages ago, G?

            Reply
  11. Alan Wilkinson

     /  10th November 2019

    In similar inane vein we have the Lefty local and world media obsessing over “Ok Boomer” ageism irrelevancy as though it means anything and matters.

    As ever the world will continue to operate on reality rather than fantasy to the eternal disappointment of the fantasists.

    Meanwhile they will continue to perpetuate the very things they rage about by misinforming each other as per this attempt at analysis. The high cost of building new houses which has elevated all prices is directly the result of unchecked environmentalism, loss of property rights and risk aversion they enthusiastically support politically. The result is house buyers now support an army of professional paper pushers also contributing to high employment and low productivity just as inefficient government agencies did here historically. All this passes completely over their heads:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/117253930/budget-buster-the-boomers-are-okay

    Meanwhile their Lefty pretend economists ignorantly feed their grievance industry. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/117270716/home-ownership-at-lowest-level-in-70-years-economist-says-baby-boomers-to-blame

    Truly pathetic.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  10th November 2019

      Aww … the “OK Boomer” thing I just think “OK kid” & laugh off. Who cares? A younger generation moaning about the one before it. And thinking that’s new? Where has she been?

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  10th November 2019

      you are pathetic Al.
      Why not reveal the points in the articles that you disagree with and why!

      Reply

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