Sustainable NZ could help Labour, Greens as well as environment

The newly launched Sustainable NZ Party has been criticised a puppet party set up to either give National  coalition option they are currently lacking, or compete with Green votes to try to stop the Green Party making the 5% threshold,

But if SNZ makes it into Parliament (this is a long shot but possible) they could help Labour or the Greens (if the get back in) as much if not more than they could help National.

SNZ in Parliament could give Labour a choice between them and the Greens, giving them more coalition bargaining power.

SNZ could also give Labour or Labour+Greens an alternative to NZ First for a coalition.

A Labour+Greens+SNZ coalition should have a strong environmental mandate, far stronger than currently with NZ First in the mix.

The Greens have actually reacted with “it only strengthens democracy when we have a diversity of people running in general elections”.

And even if National and SNZ form a coalition, that must be better for environmental policy implementation than National on their own or with ACT.

The bleating from the left seems more old school politics where parties like Labour think they should be able to effectively rule on their own, or as far as the Greens are concerned worried about self preservation (the threshold), or seeing themselves as the exclusive champion of environmental policies.

Martyn Bradbury at The Daily Blog: The real purpose of National’s new ‘Sustainability NZ Party’

The point of Sustainability NZ for National is not to get over 5% and join them in Parliament, it’s to take just enough green voters away from the Greens so as to sink them under 5%.

That’s just one possibility. Voters may see differently – two environmental parties could be better than one.

If we had a Green movement that wasn’t more focused on meaningless consensus and middle class identity politics, they could see this challenge off from Sustainability NZ, but because of the shrill alienation the Greens  manage to create, this could be the plot to rob them of any representation post 2020.

He also takes a swipe at the Greens. The bitterness of someone with no party to support.

Voters could dump the Greens from Parliament regardless of SNZ. If that happens and SNZ manages to get in then we must be better off than being left with National versus Labour.

MickySavage at The Standard: Sustainable Party launches

The Sustainable Party, National’s sock puppet party designed to weaken the Greens has launched.

That’s a negative Labour reaction, without stopping to think through the possibilities.

At a time when the world is in a crisis caused by run away climate change there is only very oblique reference to this most pressing of problems.  It should be centre and front of any policy announcement by a so called environmentally focussed party.  That it is not speaks volumes.  And that the policy is being used to try and wedge the Greens on  Generic Engineering shows the real motivation behind the party.

The Greens should be challenged on their ridiculous entrenched anti-GE position,

Of course the reality is that this party is a puppet party, designed to cause as much grief as possible to the Greens.

And he refuses to accept that late stage capitalism and unfettered greed and growth are the cause of our problems.  That economic disparity and ecological decline are happening hand in hand because they are symptoms of the same problem.  Instead he claims that his party is  “pro-progress, pro-technology and pro-science” and seems to think that eternal economic growth is possible.

This sounds like knee jerk anti-new party syndrome – established parties seem to hate newbies with new approaches. They seem to feel threatened.

Beyond the overreaction of political bloggers, RNZ – Sustainable New Zealand political party: Other parties unruffled

The Greens said they were “not too fussed” about a potential rival, saying in a statement the ‘teal’ vote was miniscule.

“We think National are the only ones likely to lose support,” it said.

“However Mr Tava is welcome to give it a go – he has every right to and in fact it only strengthens democracy when we have a diversity of people running in general elections.”

Yes, under MMP more parties in Parliament strengthens democracy, giving major parties more options to get genuine majorities to progress policies.

Former Green MP Sue Bradford did not think Sustainable NZ would take many votes from the Greens.

“While Mr Tava talks about being willing to go with National or Labour or anyone else I think it’s pretty clear that they are positioning themselves very much on the right side of the political spectrum with all their talk of working with business…

Funny, Bradford equates “talk of working with business with “very much on the right side of the political spectrum”. Even Russel Norman appeared willing to talking with businesses, and James Shaw certainly is willing.

Apart from the fringe far left healthy business is seen as an integral part of the way we live.

Forest & Bird chief executive Kevin Hague said more voices for protecting the environment was a good thing, but he thought the party might struggle to get a coherent message through.

“Much of the destruction of the environment has been the result of commercial exploitation and it seems like their economic policies may not be ones that would actually change that, so we look forward with interest to see what the full suite of their policies might be,” he said.

Mr Hague said focusing the majority of their policies on the environment, could place them at a disadvantage too.

“If they say they’re just going to have environmental policies that is going to make them pretty much a lame duck within Parliament on most issues.

Not necessarily. All parties in Parliament have to make decisions on issues they don’t have policies on.  That doesn’t make them lame ducks on those issues.  And where parties have policies on issues the reality is that most parties have to compromise on their own policies most of the time.

Labour’s 2020 campaign chair Megan Woods said they had not yet discussed the prospect of working with the party.

Ms Woods said however it would not change anything about their campaign and Labour would just be focused on telling its own story.

“[The] launch comes as no surprise, this has been well signalled, but what it does show yet again is that National still has a big strategic dilemma around a lack of coalition partners,” she said.

If she or Labour thought things through it could be a positive change for them – providing they can win more votes than National next election.

Newshub: Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern throws doubt on Vernon Tava’s Sustainable NZ

Jacinda Ardern has hit out at the newest political party Sustainable New Zealand, saying the Government is already catering to the environmental needs it’s offering.

“I do believe that environmental matters are a huge focus for this Government and I don’t see that there’s necessarily a space that [Sustainable NZ] need to fill,” the Prime Minister said Monday.

But Labour leader Ardern questioned the need for Tava’s party in the current political space, asking reporters at her post-Cabinet press conference: “What is the political issue that they are trying to solve?”

Ardern said the current Labour-Green-New Zealand First Government is already doing plenty for the environment, pointing to the Zero Carbon Bill that passed its final reading last week.

She also reflected on the $181.6 million funding boost over four years given to the Department of Conservation in Budget 2018 – the largest bump in conservation funding since 2002.

“If they claim that they are operating in an environmental space… I’d say that it’s being very well catered for by this Government,” Ardern said.

How well the environment is being catered for is debatable, and could be better catered for if SNZ replaced NZ First as a coalition partner for Labour+Greens.

SNZ could compete with votes that could otherwise go to Labour, and that’s not what a party leader wants.

But for non-aligned people like me another party option to vote for is a good thing. I don’t think there are any current parties in Parliament that deserve my vote. I’d like more options, and SNZ looks to be potentially a good one.

Leave a comment

30 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  12th November 2019

    If the silly name denotes the quality of its candidates I can’t see any virtue in voting for them.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  12th November 2019

      Yes, the name is a bit twee and pwecious. But I would guess that it’s harder to find a good party name than one might think.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  12th November 2019

        Do you reckon a “She’ll Be Right 👍🏼” Party might score a respetable tally? Might collect a few votes from the feministi AND the good old Ordinary Blokes if they keep their policies positive-sounding but basically otherwise pretty bland & meaningless.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  12th November 2019

          On second thoughts, scratch that idea. The kind of people who’d be thinking She’ll Be Right on election day would probably figure lotsa others will probably vote for them too so they don’t need to & they’ll just go & do something else.

          Reply
  2. Blazer

     /  12th November 2019

    Not even registered yet is it?
    Vernon Palava…Mr Wonderful….torn to shreds by Kim Hill,has N.F hope.

    Reply
  3. Gezza

     /  12th November 2019

    I think James Shaw is probably on the right track for the Greens, & has shown himself to be pragmatic, prepared to listen to farmers & business, work with them & other parties, & compromise – which to a large extent is all that Vincent Tava seems to be offering.

    The Greens’s achievements have been mainly in the area of the environment & AGWCC, so what, really, is SNZ offering that is significantly different?

    To counter this party, all the Greens have to is campaign on that basis. Such social justice wins as they might want to claim have actually come across as Labour policies, passed with their support. Marama Davidson seems to have pretty much faded into the background since publicly trying to reclaim the C word – one of the daftest things I’ve ever seen in NZ politics.

    She would possibly be better to consider deserting to Labour, or to the new Maori Party – both of which would seem a closer fit with her political aims.

    Who knows, Shaw might even work out & persuade them that the Greens’ abhorrence of GE is short-sighted & that they might want to reconsider their refusal to countenance it without understanding it?

    I wouldn’t vote for SNZ on what little I’ve seen from them so far. I too would want to see more detail of their policies on other issues of government. Why vote for a single-issue party with no idea of how they’d vote on other issues?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  12th November 2019

      🙄 *Greens’

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  12th November 2019

        Thats a good point . Greens in a multi party coalition seems to be ‘good for the environment’ in more conservative way

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  12th November 2019

          DH Lawrence tried and failed to establish/reestablish (rather than reclaim) various words; fuck, cunt, shit and piss were all well represented in that dullest* of books, the didactic Lady Chatterley’s Lover. Some poor person had to count them for the Penguin trial. They have never gone away, but he was wasting his time and so was Marama.

          * except where it’s unintentionally funny; DHL had little, if any sense of humour.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  12th November 2019

            When I read that GE is what rose growers and others do when they cross-pollinate to make a new flower but done on a larger scale, it gave me a different perspective on it.

            No one knows how many people starved because the new version (for want of a better word) of rice was barred.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  12th November 2019

              No it’s not. They go much much further than slowly changing interesting characteristics
              https://www.gardeners.com/how-to/gmo-vs-traditional-plant-breeding/7926.html

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  12th November 2019

              I said ‘on a larger scale.’

              That article was written by an ’employee owner’. Does she have slaves as workers ?

            • Duker

               /  13th November 2019

              A good example of recent genetic engineering is meat substitutes based on plants. Remember the old TVP, textured vegetable protein. Its been around for ages and broadly is still what they use. GE now allows them to engineer the ‘real meaty taste’ into TVP and its cousins..
              Not exactly rose petal colours is it.

  4. NOEL

     /  12th November 2019

    Noticed this interesting comment elsewhere.
    “If National get about 44% (ie a steady result from last election), and ACT improve to 1.67% (ie just enough for a second MP), then Nat+ACT = 46% total.

    If Labour gets 38.5% (ie up from their 36.89% of the last election, which is looking likely given current polling), and Greens also stay steady at say 6.5% (up marginally from 6.27% last election with the Metiria debacle), they get a total of 45%.

    The ‘key’ then becomes whether NZF make it to 5% or not – looking ever more unlikely right now.

    Sustainable NZ now become an important player, even if they are only looking at 1 or 2 % votes. Because those votes will probably come from Green voters who were disenchanted with the benefit fraud scandal of their co-leader last election, and thus keep the left wing block in parliament to just less than the centre-right wing block.”

    Is a centre green party attractive enough to pull down NZFirst?

    Going to be a lot of tactical voting next election with two referendums and more parties..

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  12th November 2019

      The only thing is I don’t trust current polls to tell us anything useful about how The Greens, NZF, & Labour, will do at the next election. I imagine National’s support will probably remain steady at around the same as last time & where they are now, no matter who is their leader.

      Peters shows himself time & again to be able to pull off getting himself & a few other clown MPs into Parliament through exploiting disaffected Labour & National voters with short memories. Tracey Martin seems on the ball politically to me probably deserves to get back in.

      Ardern still looks likely to pick up a lot of female votes for a Labour party vote as long as her personal support remains high – just because she’s female.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  12th November 2019

        what ‘clown’ M.P’s has NZ First had that make you score it worse than any other parties?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  12th November 2019

          What makes you think I scored it worse than other parties?

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  12th November 2019

            this-‘Peters shows himself time & again to be able to pull off getting himself & a few other clown MPs into Parliament’

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  12th November 2019

              So do Labour & National.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  12th November 2019

              Megan Woods is a know-all bossy-boots and I have heard very unfavourable remarks about her and the bossy nature of the current government.

              MW comes across as a very unlikeable person.

            • Gezza

               /  12th November 2019

              More of a bulldog than a greyhound. Her bark may be worse than her bite though. She at least seems to know what she’s talking about, insofar as she seems to have a handle on her portfolios at Question Time. Intellectually I think she’s got some grunt, & I would say she does her homework. Would be interesting to know what Departmental staff think of her. Seems to possibly be a Ms Fixit for Jacinda.

  5. Duker

     /  12th November 2019

    “That’s a negative Labour reaction, without stopping to think through the possibilities.”
    There is no possibility of them getting over 5%, surely PG you have been in modern politics long enough to know that no one thinks its achievable in 1 year from nothing. The Sustainability vote isnt that big ……and …and they have competition with a better known brand!
    Since Vernon Tava isnt some person with tons of money AND ideals like other recent ‘tryers’, being a party to reduce the Greens vote is completely plausible.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  12th November 2019

      Oops – I’ve called him Vincent Tava further up. Must remember it’s Vernon in future. Not good to be passing a critical judgement on the wrong man.

      Reply
  6. Zedd

     /  13th November 2019

    “VIVA La Revolucion.. comrades !” 🙂

    Reply

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