Open Forum – 28 November

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148 Comments

  1. Reply
  2. Duker

     /  28th November 2019

    Those Clintons are at it again ! ha

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  28th November 2019

      How many is that now ?

      They even manage to get into prisons and give people heart attacks.

      Reply
  3. Zedd

     /  28th November 2019

    Breaking News:

    Mr T is calling for all ‘E-cigs/vaping’ to be tobacco flavoured ONLY

    He also is labelling ‘DRUG cartels’ as ‘terrorists’ :/

    Really… who is ‘advising’ this F@ck-wit ?? 😀

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  28th November 2019

      The only fugwit is you. Making vapes tobacco favoured will attract more Dems to taking up the real thing, thereby shorting their lives. Republicans have more brains ( and money). They drink fine wines for the health benefits.

      Reply
  4. Blazer

     /  28th November 2019

    something for the barmy,blue ,swivel headed to choke…on..

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12289079

    Reply
  5. It’s worth looking at the details:

    A 21-year-old man who went to trial earlier this year over multiple allegations of sexual assault at the Labour Party summer camp has been discharged without conviction.

    He reached a plea deal with the case’s prosecutors mid-trial after initially facing a jury charged with five counts of indecent assault, which related to four people – two men and two women.

    He pleaded guilty to two amended charges of assault under the Summary Offences Act following events which occurred at the young Labour event near Waihi in February 2018.

    The assault charges were in relation to the two men, while the charges against the two women were dismissed.

    Judge Collins said the gravity of the offending is low, which may shock people because of the nature of the allegations.

    “I’m not convinced it was for a sexual gratification or any perverted motive,” he said.

    Rather, the judge continued, the offending – while not an excuse – was “born out of drunken stupidity”.

    “It may well have been indecent but that is no longer part of the charge.”

    Speaking to one of the victims sitting in court, Judge Collins said he hoped – like all judges – for the power to “put victims back to the position in their lives prior to the offending”.

    “I accepted everything you had to say, I had no difficulty as the judge in believing you,” he said of both victims, whom he said were impressive young men.

    The judge also said that everything he’d read about the offender, but for the night at the summer camp, showed he too was an impressive young man.

    “I have obvious sympathy for him in the position he found himself on account of his own drunken stupidity.”

    But, Judge Collins and the man’s lawyer Emma Priest debated whether he should be named publicly.

    Priest said there had been “extreme media” coverage of the case and the “highly political nature of the prosecution will be linked to other political news for political reasons”.

    Further sexual assault allegations in the Labour Party this year have already been linked back to the young man, Priest said.

    But Judge Collins was not satisfied the young man will be “burdened or blighted” by the summer camp scandal and declined to make a permanent name suppression order.

    Priest, however, said she had instructions to appeal the decision – leading to an interim suppression order until a High Court hearing is held.

    Naming him will be tough on him due to the political spotlight being put on this, but not naming him may be at least as bad for others in Labour who are innocent.

    This was a poorly organised and poorly supervised camp, with too much alcohol with young people involved.

    When complaints were made it was very poorly handled by the Labour Party. The outcome doesn’t change that.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  28th November 2019

      Teenagers, no adults, unlimited free alcohol….what did the organisers think would happen, forsooth ? That they’d all play snakes and ladders and be in their own beds by 10pm ?

      As we’d be none the wiser for hearing his name, I can’t see much point.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  29th November 2019

        The ‘organisers’ were Young Labour..they probably thought a camp without grog wouldnt have anybody turn up.
        Young Nats are big piss ups too…and wasnt there stories about ‘princess parties’ and young women being targetted for getting them totally drunk so that ….

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  29th November 2019

          Were there ? I haven’t heard of these.

          The idea of young women being targetted and got drunk is an insult to young women. Do you think that women are too stupid to realise that they’re getting drunk and would fail to notice that they’re being targeted, because they are too dim to know this ?

          Why do you have such a poor opinion of the intelligence of young women ?

          Reply
  6. Blazer

     /  28th November 2019

    ‘been discharged without conviction.’

    was always a ..beat up.

    Reply
    • That’s obviously not what the 4 complainants thought, nor the police, nor the judge. Nor the Labour Party once they eventually took responsibility.

      And you omitted “He pleaded guilty to two amended charges of assault” so he accepted some guilt, which you have to do to be discharged without conviction.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  28th November 2019

        Blazer is more a broad strokes type of guy. He’s scared of the ”devil in the details.”

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  28th November 2019

        Maria Austen, a Wellington lawyer, conducted an external review of Labour Party procedures after the allegations were made.

        Austen’s report included several recommendations, however, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said the report will not be publicly released while the court proceedings were ongoing.

        Thank goodness. Now she can relax, redact the offender’s name, & release it late tomorrow afternoon.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  28th November 2019

          There was no evidence for two of the charges from the sound of it and one of the complainants said that it was low-level offending.

          One must wonder at the stupidity of those who let people of that age loose on unlimited booze with the only adult sleeping through it all.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  29th November 2019

            When I was a teenager this would have been asking for trouble, and that’s not today nor yesterday.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  29th November 2019

              My brother and his friends would have thought they’d died and gone to heaven….

            • Duker

               /  29th November 2019

              “When I was a teenager “….that was when ?
              It was only 20 yrs ago ‘drinking age ‘ ( a misnomer if there ever was one, but you know what it means) in NZ went to 18.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  29th November 2019

            That’s irrelevant. You must know that underage people drink alcohol and always have.

            These were teenagers who were let loose on an open bar from the sound of it. The result was inevitable and it’s more by good luck than good management that it wasn’t worse.

            Reply
  7. duperez

     /  28th November 2019

    You can see how Simon Bridges gets support for caveman mentality suggestions about issues of law and order – the fodder is there.

    It seems some people are peed off that they’ve been denied a hanging. Name suppression is a topic of currency and since the accused hasn’t been found guilty the only chance of blood is to have his name out it seems. Of course the responsible citizens who demand the laws work well for public order and certainly wanted that in this case, are now out, a la WhaleOil, to break the suppression order.

    https://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1822074&topic=7

    https://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1793949&topic=7

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  28th November 2019

      ”You can see how Simon Bridges gets support for caveman mentality suggestions about issues of law and order.”

      What caveman suggestions? Please expand on your comments.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  28th November 2019

        The links show the base level of the haters of the government (particularly Labour). His supporters went feral from the beginning of that case. The same supporters of the modus operandi in his recent ‘discussion documents’ building up to the election.

        Something needs fixing? Get a caveman club, smash someone on the head and it’ll be sorted. Like another one from recent weeks, parents whose kids don’t get to school.

        Speaking metaphorically of course, I would never suggest Bridges would be violent, or his followers.

        The most recent posting on this site “If it looks or sounds like Trump…(or Peters or Bridges)”
        touches on the environment we’re in.

        Reply
  8. Kitty Catkin

     /  28th November 2019

    Jacinda Ardern is sidestepping too many issues. The camp; the land occupation; the NZ citizens in China…all brushed away with nods, grimaces and headshaking.

    The tearful apology for the Erebus disaster which happened before she was born was bizarre.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  28th November 2019

      My word you are cornering the market on drivel…maybe you should stop working 17 hour days or marinating your brain…in right wing ..propaganda.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  28th November 2019

        I have never claimed to work 17 hour days; I am not a Cabinet Minister or even an MP. I don’t know why you should imagine that I work 17 hour days or bother to lie about this.

        The right wing propaganda statement is also nonsensical.

        Do you think that the PM has adequately addressed those issues ? I take it that you didn’t watch tonight’s news.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  28th November 2019

          It seems that two NZers may have been detained wrongly in China. The PM waffled on for a few minutes but said nothing in particular and doesn’t seem to be about to do anything about this.

          She was also silent about the camp events.and bluffed about the Fletcher land issue.

          Reply
          • duperez

             /  28th November 2019

            The ‘doesn’t seem to be about to do anything about this’ is in the fashion I see on some other sites about Ardern. The ‘part time PM’ the ‘lazy’ PM sort of stuff.

            The places you find criticism if she is in the media for ‘only doing it for the media’ and if she isn’t in the media she’s ‘doing nothing.’ If she’s commenting on something it’s ‘what’s it got to do with her?’ if she’s not commenting it’s ‘why isn’t she getting involved?’

            I suppose the best way she could satisfy your particular angle is to put out regular lists of ‘what I’m going to do something about,’ ‘what I’m doing today’ and ‘what I did yesterday.’ Without that level of accountability some won’t ever be satisfied.

            I am sure there are some who have a tacit list which they make specific daily ‘today I am going to criticise Ardern for …’ They had a ball today with the Mt Erebus doings and the discharge without conviction in the Labour camp assault case.

            The bitter and twisted will toss and turn all night over that about what they’re saying is a corrupt legal system, a corrupt judge and the perverted Labour Party.

            I’ll sleep all right after reflecting on those same bitter and twisted who rubbished, discounted, laughed off and defended Donald Trump for ‘grabbing pussy’ yet want the accused in the case here doing the same sort of thing chucked in jail as it was an extremely serious crime. They will of course equivocate and say the young ones at the Labour camp were just children if they were 18 years old. Apparently it’s old enough to stand for Parliament.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  28th November 2019

              Hang on there , Dup. Trump boasting about being allowed to do it isn’t quite the same as our Labour hero actually doing it when he wasn’t allowed and thereby winding up in court.

            • Hang on there Alan, Trump boasting about being allowed to do it isn’t quite the same as your repugnant hero actually being allowed to do it… which is why dozens of women have accused Trump of sexual misconduct.

              https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-sexual-assault-allegations-all-list-misconduct-karen-johnson-how-many-a9149216.html

              And as we speak, Trump is facing a Jan. 31 deadline to undergo pretrial questioning in the Summer Zervos case.

              https://apnews.com/a4fd34df3fa343f9ad173c1e43ba0abf

              In light of that, what duperez points out is entirely valid.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  29th November 2019

              Hang on yourself, Ishmael. One is convicted. The other innocent until proven guilty.

            • duperez

               /  29th November 2019

              Whether one is innocent or not was beside the point for me. From the moment the Labour camp thing hit the news the only end for some was ‘guilty’ and summary severe punishment. With the reasoned attitude that sexual assault is the most heinous of crimes, the victims’ lives were over and that they must be central to any consideration.

              Some of the same people in the would be Lynch mob excused Trump for the various accusations from different people from various times. ‘Victims’ were grandstanding opportunists seeking their moment of fame. I’m not going to condemn or excuse Trump or read enough to come to conclusions about the claimed incidents. To do so would be playing the same sort of game I don’t like others playing.

              For some the New Zealand case clearly wasn’t about sexual assault or victims or the processes and operation of the justice system but about politics. I suppose the Trump lot is the same.

              I wonder if in his cases there will be the accusations of corruption of politicians, police, judges and the legal system as there have been about the case here.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  29th November 2019

              For those to whom politics is everything, everything is politics, Dup. I’ve no quibble with you there. Both sides play it and seek the opportunities. Best to treat individuals as the humans they are independent of that.

              There’s another slight difference between the two cases. In NZ the attack was indirectly on Ardern. In the US it is directly on Trump himself.

            • Alan: “ One is convicted. The other innocent until proven guilty.”

              Perhaps that’s the argument you should have made in response to duperez. But you didn’t.

  9. Reply
  10. It is only a small minority involved in “harassment of and vitriol against, Muslims and identifiable ethnic minorities”, but it’s sad to see this crap happening. Good Kiwis need to speak up against this sort of crap.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  29th November 2019

      Agreed.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  29th November 2019

        I have read your remarks about Muslims and they were quite vitriolic and nasty.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  29th November 2019

          You have also posted articles from biassed websites containing false stories and called Muslims insulting names.

          The video that supposedly showed Muslims breaking up a pub in the UK because it sold alcohol actually shows Muslims peacefully walking past and being abused by the pub patrons who also throw chairs and other objects at them.

          Reply
  11. Corky

     /  29th November 2019

    I stated a few days ago there was something unusual about the high death toll from measles
    in Samoa. Here’s PART of the reason. This quack is using Kagen water. Kagen water has a high PH. This was considered the healing component. It now transpires it’s the hydrogen in Kagen water that does the healing. The thing is…there is bugger all hydrogen in Kagen water. Plus, if not made properly it can become toxic. If he was using a straight hydrogen generating machine he might be doing some good. But he isn’t, and people are dying.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/11/newshub-correspondent-confronts-samoan-traditional-healer-over-measles-treatment-claims.html

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  29th November 2019

      Hydrogen is a gas. Water is water and contains a small dissociated ionic balance: acid:alkali, H+:OH- unless something else is added.

      Sounds like his just has added b.s.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  29th November 2019

        Molecular hydrogen is a gas that can be bubbled into water..or breathed straight out of a hydrogen generator. Reagent Blue for example measures my machine producing 1.6 parts per million of hydrogen bubbled into water. My machine is a single ducted Browns Gas machine that produces a gas of 66% hydrogen 33% oxygen. No additives needed like Kagen water machines.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  29th November 2019

          Adding hydrogen won’t change the pH. It is a reducing agent (anti-oxidant) but would be counteracted by any dissolved oxygen in the water. The only way to alter the pH is to add salts to the water either directly, say a strong base-weak acid salt like sodium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate to raise it, or indirectly by say oxidising a reactive metal.

          The effects of dissolved hydrogen or alkalinity would be completely different separately. Alkalinity may modify the reducing power of dissolved hydrogen in some cases. Scepticism of health claims is in order.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  29th November 2019

            ”Adding hydrogen won’t change the pH.”

            Browns Gas will alter the PH of water. That’s a fact. I have a Browns Gas machine, and have done that many times. You are quite at liberty to test this for yourself by buying a browns gas machine. This gas is renowned for having very unusual properties.

            As an example. I sometimes use spring water with a PH of 7.4. Bubbled for half an hour it produces a PH of between 8.1- 8.5. Given the PH scale goes up by magnitudes of 10 or 100 ( I can’t remember), that is a phenomenal boost.

            However, PH water is worthless healthwise. I’m just interested in the hydrogen and the ORP reading ( also debated).

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  29th November 2019

            Browns gas is just a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. To raise the pH you must be adding other chemicals to the water – perhaps by dissolving one of the electrodes.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  29th November 2019

              I will wager you $100 if you can find someone in your area who has a BG machine ( which is probably doubtful) to show you. As I have said..BG gas has some very unusual properties. Now, the other thing is this: my machine has a ”dry cell generator” so no electrode ever touches the water as opposed to a wet cell machine. You are far from the first person who has had a problem with this PH business. Maybe this, from the person who I consider the father of BG for health, may help.

              George Wiseman

              5 years ago
              Hydrogen (H2) bubbled through water would not affect the water’s pH much. Water doesn’t absorb much hydrogen.
              Brown’s Gas (BG) is not ‘just’ H2. Brown’s Gas contains several constituents that are capable of changing the H+ and HO- ratios (pH balance) in water. I’m now working on a presentation to show this definitively.
              The raise in pH has nothing to do with the lye (NaOH) that’s used as a catalyst in the electrolyzer. Our electrolyzers are designed so that the amount of lye that comes out with the BG is statistically insignificant.

    • Gezza

       /  29th November 2019

      Seems, from 1News last night, the main problem is, for whatever reason, there’s a high number of unvaccinated people.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  29th November 2019

        3 news, too; and it can’t all be put down to the two errors. From the sound of things I have read, the vaccination rate has been very low for some time.

        Washing a measles patient with any kind of water is unlikely to do much except lower their temperature if they have a fever.

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  29th November 2019

        Measles isn’t a death sentence, but can be. I stated previously that the death rate was too high. And now we are finding out why. Peoples ignorance basically in seeking fast medical intervention, or believing in quacks. Plus I’m a most sure (?) Vitamin A is not in use. If it was we would have medical staff injecting the sick left, right and centre before they even saw a doctor.

        Reply
  12. Has Giuliani been doing exactly what he accused the Bidens of doing? Shaking down the Ukrainians for personal profit?

    https://apnews.com/d7440cffba4940f5b85cd3dfa3500fb2

    Reply
  13. Corky

     /  29th November 2019

    [Deleted – PG] 😁 Apparently people have been saying for a long time the death rate in Samoa is too high. Hmmm” No, they haven’t. I said it. 👍

    Reply
  14. Gezza

     /  29th November 2019

    “A high-profile sportsman has been charged with possessing methamphetamine and has appeared in court.

    The man, aged in his 30s, has been given interim name suppression and appeared at the Manukau District Court on Friday.

    His occupation on the police charge sheet was listed as “professional sportsman”.

    If found guilty, the maximum sentence he could receive is life in prison.

    The man is due back in court next week.”
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/117821642/sport-star-appears-in-court-on-drug-charge

    That’s it. That’s the article in its entirety. As I expected when I clicked on it, the sports star’s name is suppressed. As there is nothing of any use to the public in knowing this, & and all it will do is make some people speculate on who it is, why even bother to publish it? Just to get clicks or to start the speculation?

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  29th November 2019

      Another case of special treatment for the famous?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  29th November 2019

        No, as has been said many times, anyone can ask for name suppression.

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  29th November 2019

        Well, at least The Herald has narrowed it down a little bit.

        “One of the biggest names in New Zealand sport stands accused of dealing Class A drugs.

        The former national representative was arrested after police executed a search warrant and took several people into custody in Auckland yesterday.

        He was held in custody and appeared this morning before Judge John Macdonald in the Manukau District Court.

        Supporters in the public gallery called out reassurances to the man, who faces one charge of possession of a Class A drug, namely methamphetamine, for supply.”

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  29th November 2019

          Polynesian.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  29th November 2019

            Appeared in Manukau, & it’s not a pakeha/palangi thing to call out support from the public gallery, so, probably. Said elsewhere to be a “former international, aged in his 30s”.

            The rumour mill will be working overtime.

            Reply
  15. Gezza

     /  29th November 2019

    “The Crusaders will retain their name and have revealed a new logo to replace the scrapped knight and sword symbol.

    Crusaders board chairman Grant Jarrold, Crusaders chief executive Colin Mansbridge, and New Zealand Rugby Head of Professional Rugby Chris Lendrum, confirmed the 10-times Super Rugby champions would not change their name from 2021, and would instead “reclaim its meaning through a new brand”.

    It’s a decision which will grate for those who have called for the name to be scrapped in the aftermath of the March 15 mosque shootings, which prompted some to link the club to the centuries-old Crusades, bloody medieval conflicts between Muslims and Christians.

    The new logo – The Tohu – is shaped by the natural landscape in the Crusaders region, stretching from the top of the “Southern Alps to the depths of our moana”, the Crusaders said in a statement.

    Mansbridge said the team considered “many” other names during the decision-making process, but ultimately opted against change. “We couldn’t find anything that we were trying to do and how we are trying to connect with our community better than the name we have,” he said.

    Since March 15, the Crusaders have distanced themselves from the medieval fighter definition of their name, instead aligning themselves with the meaning which is to crusade for good.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/117810596/crusaders-keep-name-but-reveal-new-logo-design

    That’ll get the forehead veins popping for some on both sides of the debate about whether they should drop the name, but looks like a good compromise to me. Clever new logo.

    Reply
  16. Duker

     /  29th November 2019

    So, They took the Crusaders name because of its ‘martial’ or military significance complete with knights on horseback and shields with crosses and swords ( no oakleaves though!).
    No it means , by the magic of promotional bullshit, to mean crusade for good
    The original term from french portugese or spainish was ‘to take the cross’

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  29th November 2019

      Same issue arises around “Jihad”. There’s no shortage of Muslims who will tell you that it just means a spritual struggle. It’s got two meanings:

      1. a struggle or fight against the enemies of Islam.
      and
      2. a spiritual struggle within oneself against sin.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  29th November 2019

        Yes but jihad does have two meanings in the context, crusade in rugby wasn’t chosen because they goody goodies. I think there post facto explanations are silly…they are lucky Tarrant wasnt a local and super fan. The chance for truly creative thinking was lost. It’s not as though the name of team goes back to 1879 (CRFU)… The nicknames thing is a recent development in NZ

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  29th November 2019

          I thought that the cardboard castles and fake armour looked ridiculous and were an embarrassment, anyway.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  29th November 2019

            The new logo looks like bent fingers…what’s it supposed to look like ?

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  29th November 2019

              A stylised C, which it is. Consisting of a koru above & its mirror image below.

            • Gezza

               /  30th November 2019

              It’s already been compared to two penises touching which unfortunately, once pointed out, is an image hard to banish from the mind.

          • Gezza

             /  29th November 2019

            I think they missed an opportunity to change it but the brand is such a strong one that I’m assuming they feared a potential backlash from fans & possibly sponsors would make changing to a new brand name more contentious & risky than sticking with the current name.

            As far as I know Tarrant wasn’t a crusaders fan, he’s not even a Kiwi arsehole, he’s an Aussie arsehole. And the crusaders are a part of the long past history of the English whose ancestors settled Christchurch, so their past “warrior” background. Not a current threat to Muslims. Modern day self-declared Jihadis are more of a current threat to other Muslims than the crusaders rugby team are.

            But I expect the matter will continue to be contentious.

            Reply
            • Duker

               /  30th November 2019

              ” the crusaders are a part of the long past history of the English whose ancestors settled Christchurch, “…. total nonsense.
              It was chosen because of ‘marketing of entertainment’ reasons, it shared a C with Canterbury and the knights on horseback has even less to do with Canterbury, which might be connected to Monks riding on Donkeys as the early settlers were called ‘Canterbury Pilgrims’ and the city was named after ‘Christ Church’ a college of Oxford
              https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/christchurch-european-settlement/

            • Gezza

               /  30th November 2019

              What a dick. Are you saying the English didn’t take part in the Crusades? They obviously picked a name that evokes the idea of warriors, fighters, because they thought that suited the concept of a rugby team doing battle with other teams. Why else would they have picked that name?

              Do you think they picked it to piss Muslms or Monks off.

            • Duker

               /  30th November 2019

              Very minor part of English history , mostly a french thing at the time, and certainly no connection to the “Canterbury Pilgrims’ an actual name used at the time of early Christchurch settlement. Its absurd you saying the long history some how transferred here ..wheres the names like Richard Lionheart or Templars, Hospitallers or similar.

              What is your connection to Hagar the Horrible ?

            • Gezza

               /  30th November 2019

              Ah, I see now. You are just constructing a straw man argument I haven’t made just to have a go at me. My comment was meant in relation to the Crusaders’ history being long past, & so not any kind of current threat

              No worries. Carry on sniping if you want. I’m heading out & no need waste any more time on you.

  17. duperez

     /  29th November 2019

    The Crusaders discussion was good for my education – I looked up the etymology and history of the word in various sources. I saw reference to the residual bitterness about the word for what happened centuries back. I heard a sports journalist today mention how some people had always been offended by the Canterbury use of the word.

    I can’t think of a local parallel. It occurs that after World Wars One and Two there was anger about Germans and Japanese. I’ve heard that people didn’t want to buy stuff from those countries.

    I’m going into town tomorrow and should stop in as I pass the local bowls club. I could ask the old people if it were true that people were so upset they wouldn’t buy vehicles from those countries. Trouble is I probably wouldn’t find a parking space amongst all the Mercedes, Toyotas, BMWs and Hondas.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  29th November 2019

      That motto is going to cause some argument, I suspect. “Mā pango mā whero” does not translate as “With black with red” as whoever the dude in the video clip says it does.

      Reply
      • Duker

         /  30th November 2019

        Has a different meaning in your iwi does it ..ha!

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  30th November 2019

          Nup, but running it thru GT & Te Aka, it doesn’t translate as that. Mā doesn’t mean “with” & from memory can mean “and” & “white, clean”, among other things. I’ll be interested to see what if any comment there is on it from Maori. One Maori artist has already tried to relate it to an inapprpriate Maori proverb, although it’s not that either.

          How would you translate it?

          Reply
          • Duker

             /  30th November 2019

            Get a decent Maori dictionary , even older used editions of Williams are great, then you can see your error.
            Google translate ?… only a simpleton would then use that disparage some other translation.
            Ma pango , ma whero ka oti is actually a phrase used by Williams to illustrate the use of pango .

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  30th November 2019

              Oh I don’t use Google Translate to disparage other translations in any language, and especially not te teo. I use it because sometimes it’s ok to get a general idea, & mostly because it’s often just hilarious. That’s why I often say:” Google Translate confidently informs me that means…” 😎

              Reverse translating quickly shows other translations though. As I say, I’m waiting to see what comment there is from Maori – no doubt they will have taken advice on it. Sometimes more Maori words are needed to make the desired meaning clear.

            • Duker

               /  30th November 2019

              Whats GT maori for ‘digging hole deeper’. You absolutely used a laughable source to disparage not one but two phrases – “One Maori artist has already tried to relate it to an inappropriate Maori proverb”.
              What about adding the words yes or OK to your vocab and move on to another different point.

            • Gezza

               /  30th November 2019

              You absolutely used a laughable source to disparage not one but two phrases – “One Maori artist has already tried to relate it to an inappropriate Maori proverb”.

              No I haven’t. I didn’t even state any GT translation. As for that last misfire:

              “Reaction to the decision has been varied across the board.

              Dr Johnson Witehira​, an artist who did his doctorate in Māori visual art, called the design “awkward”. He compared it to the Air New Zealand logo with the ends cut off. “It looks like they’ve cut a piece of a koru off,” he said. “It looks a bit awkward, it doesn’t look refined.”

              He also commented on the whakataukī​, or proverb, “Mā pango mā whero” saying the oldest reference he could find referring to the proverb was “when slaves worked with chiefs, work would be done faster”.

              Stop wanking & move on yourself.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  30th November 2019

      I believe that it was true about the not buying things from those countries, like Japanese cars. Whether it still is 74 years after the war is another matter, as there are not many old soldiers left.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  30th November 2019

        I have read a lot about the war, including the treatment of POWs by the Japanese. It’s not quite true that a man died for every sleeper laid in the Changi railway, but it’s not too much of an exaggeration.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  30th November 2019

          PDTs, either get a grip…or loosen it, whichever applies, and grow up.

          Reply
      • duperez

         /  30th November 2019

        There aren’t many left from the time of the Crusades or from times when the word crusade or crusader had much more limited and specific connotations. 74 years is like this morning in comparison.

        Reply
  18. Gezza

     /  30th November 2019

    Breaking news
    Terrorist attack at lunchtime on London Bridge.

    Attacker stabs around 10 people, 2 currently reported to be seriously injured. Bystanders run to & wrestle knife off man wearing fake suicide vest before being pulled off & he is shot dead by armed police. (Video.)

    https://news.sky.com/story/witnesses-describe-terror-of-london-bridge-attack-11873548

    Reply
      • Corky

         /  30th November 2019

        Notice how the word Muslim seems to be missing from reports? Is that because the suspect wasn’t Muslim..or because like CrimeWatch, race and culture identification is now taboo.

        If it was a Muslim, as I predicted in a post to Pete, there would likely be payback for the killing of the ISIS leader.

        Big respect for those brave souls who struggled with an offender with a knife. That is a horrid situation to be in. Unlike the movies, knife disarming is extremely difficult. This tells me the offender has little or no offensive military training , otherwise the body count would have been closer to ten.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  30th November 2019

          Well, at this point they may not even know for sure if he’s Muslim – no one’s been reported as saying he yelled out the usual Muslim jihadi stuff. I think it’s likely, but the suicide vest was fake so until it’s confirmed one can only speculate. Could’ve just been some nutter.

          If it was supposedly payback for killing for killing Baghdadi, it’s not payback. Payback would be killing some yanks. There’ve been random attacks in the UK & other Western countries going on for years now.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  30th November 2019

            I suspect that the reason the man hasn’t been described as Muslim is because they don’t know yet, not for PC reasons.

            I can’t see much reason for telling people what religion someone is on Crimewatch (if that’s still going in the UK; it isn’t here) but we do hear what race the suspect is when someone’s wanted, like the teenager who’s been attacking women in Auckland.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th November 2019

              There’s an Auckland crime watch on Facebook, but I can’t remember when the television Crimewatch was last on here.

            • Duker

               /  30th November 2019

              Maybe the police could use that other code word – ‘known to security services’

            • Duker

               /  30th November 2019

              Just in…
              “Knife attacker who killed two in London Bridge terror attack ‘was an Islamic extremist released from prison a year ago – and still wearing an ELECTRONIC ANKLE TAG'” – Daily Mail

            • Missy

               /  30th November 2019

              They knew Kitty. He was just released from prison and wearing an ankle tag.

              He had been in prison for planning to bomb the London Stock Exchange and set up Islamist training camps.

          • Corky

             /  30th November 2019

            ”If it was supposedly payback for killing for killing Baghdadi, it’s not payback. Payback would be killing some yanks.”

            I thought about that before writing my comment. While that sounds a logical thing to assume, what if you are an Isis sympathiser in the West and you are seething with rage at the infidels for killing your commander?

            You may want to kill some Infidels to even the score. To show you are still a faithful soldier who will not be broken.

            Of course, it could be just your average Muslim nutter ( if confirmed) who wakes up one day and thinks..it’s time for some Infidels to die.

            Either way …the bottom line is innocent Westerns are dead. And once again we climb on the well worn merry go round of gasps, sadness and OMGs.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  30th November 2019

              That’s my point, really. Who knows, Corky? The Sri Lanka bombings followed Tarrant’s massacre. Naturally many wondered initially is this payback for that? Turned out no, it’d been in the planning for quite a long time to have been totally unconnected. I’ve been expecting something more spectacular than this if there’s to be an IS-organised response to Baghdadi’s welcome demise.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  30th November 2019

            If it was an organised revenge attack, it was a singularly ineffective one. It seems more like a one-off by a loner.

            I’d say it was a nutter trying to get his 15 minutes of fame. It’s a shame that he’s been killed, as this means, of course, that his motivation will never be known.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  30th November 2019

              If he was wearing a suicide vest, he couldn’t really be surprised that he was taken seriously, I suppose. That has to be why he was shot. The police may well have guessed that it wasn’t real, but couldn’t take the chance that it was.

            • Missy

               /  30th November 2019

              He was an Islamist. He was in prison for planning to set up Islamist training camps. To say he is a nutter is to reduce the threat from people like him. He was dangerous, and those like him are dangerous.

      • Gezza

         /  30th November 2019

        “Metropolitan Police assistant commissioner Neil Basu said the event began at Learning Together, a justice conference featuring ex-prisoners, academics and justice advocates. Organiser the Learning Together Network has locked its twitter account.

        Basu said in a statement:

        The circumstances, as we currently understand them, are that the attacker attended an event earlier on Friday afternoon at Fishmonger’s Hall called ‘Learning Together’. We believe that the attack began inside before he left the building and proceeded onto London Bridge, where he was detained and subsequently confronted and shot by armed officers.

        Extensive cordons are likely to remain in place for some time and I would ask the public to continue to avoid the area.

        The Times has reported that the attacker, who police have identified as Usman Khan, was invited to attend the conference and sat through a morning session.

        Usman Khan was convicted in 2012 for terrorism offences and released from prison in December 2018 on licence, Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu said.

        In a statement, Basu said police were searching Khan’s Staffordshire residence and that he is believed at this stage to have acted alone.

        Whilst we are still in the early stages of the investigation, at this time we are not actively seeking anyone else in relation to the attack.

        However, we continue to make fast time enquiries to ensure that no other people were involved in this attack and that there is no outstanding threat to the public.

        As I stated earlier, police were called at 13:58hrs to a stabbing at premises near to London Bridge, EC1. Emergency services attended, including officers from the City of London Police and the Metropolitan Police.

        A male suspect was shot by specialist armed officers and I can confirm that he died at the scene.

        We are now in a position to confirm the identity of the suspect as 28-year-old Usman Khan who had been residing in the Staffordshire area. As a result, officers are, tonight, carrying out searches at an address in Staffordshire.

        This individual was known to authorities, having been convicted in 2012 for terrorism offences. He was released from prison in December 2018 on licence and clearly, a key line of enquiry now is to establish how he came to carry out this attack.

        Tragically, two people – a man and a woman – were killed during the attack. Three others – a man and two women – were also injured and remain in hospital.

        Usman Khan was convicted in 2012 for terrorism offences and released from prison in December 2018 on licence, Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu said.

        In a statement, Basu said police were searching Khan’s Staffordshire residence and that he is believed at this stage to have acted alone.

        Whilst we are still in the early stages of the investigation, at this time we are not actively seeking anyone else in relation to the attack.

        However, we continue to make fast time enquiries to ensure that no other people were involved in this attack and that there is no outstanding threat to the public.”
        -Guardian

        https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2019/nov/29/london-bridge-incident-police-city

        There’ll be hell to pay now…

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  30th November 2019

          ”However, we continue to make fast time enquiries to ensure that no other people were involved in this attack and that there is no outstanding threat to the public.”

          ‘No outstanding threat.’ Downgraded to just your average threat that all Londoners must accept…that they aren’t guaranteed they’ll come home safely to their loved ones.

          Why was this murderous nut released from prison? Oh, that’s right – it’s how liberal democracy works.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  30th November 2019

            No one is guaranteed that, anywhere. In the US, there’s a mass shooting almost every day.

            Many people are killed by their ‘loved ones’.

            He was on license; that means that he could be recalled at any time. He wasn’t free. That’s why he had the anklet on.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  30th November 2019

              Kitty – come on! He was free enuf to stab 2 people to death and injure several others in a hall and on a street & / or the bridge with 2 knives.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  1st December 2019

              You know what I mean; he was under surveillance, not free to go anywhere now that his sentence was finished.

              Being a nutter and being dangerous frequently go together, Missy; nutters don’t have the inhibitions that the sane might have.

              It’s not a major thing, but the man who came up behind me in the street and thumped me was obviously a nutter or he wouldn’t have walked up to a stranger and hit them hard enough to hurt; he wouldn’t have done it all.

            • Gezza

               /  1st December 2019

              Yes I know what you mean Kitty, he was technically on supervised early release, but what’s at issue here is that he appears to been granted early release, before completing even half of his sentence, almost automatically (from a brief reporter’s commentary I heard on Aljazeera tv this morning) without any kind of adequate in-depth assessment of whether he still posed a serious risk to the public.

              Obviously now the focus will be going on how the hell this could happen.

            • Corky

               /  1st December 2019

              The problem is Kitty gets caught up in Aristotelian logic, and the semantical backwaters of a given topic.

              It should be obvious if he had the opportunity to kill, any other curtailments on his freedoms are ineffective and worthless. As you say:

              ”Kitty – come on! He was free enuf to stab 2 people to death and injure several others.”

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  1st December 2019

              You almost certainly have no idea what Aristotelian logic is.
              Are you thinking of the all As are Bs, therefore all Bs are As deliberately false logic that we all learned at primary school was false ?

              Don’t use words whose meanings you don’t know.

              You are stating the obvious, of course; there’s a limit to what supervision can do to prevent someone offending again.

            • Corky

               /  1st December 2019

              The defence will rest, your honour.🤔

            • Corky

               /  1st December 2019

              The defence would now like to call John Keats and his theory call ‘Negative Capability’.😊

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  1st December 2019

            I wish that you would.

            Reply
  19. Corky

     /  30th November 2019

    I was just thinking . Of course someone should be guaranteed protection from a domestic terrorist who is Muslim and inspired by Islam. We can’t guarantee safety from our own, but we should have no fear of an alien culture in our country, with many of its adherents believing we are second class humans who need to be subjugated to their will.

    Apparently such logic eludes many..starting with Western governments.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  30th November 2019

      That could be because it’s false logic that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

      Reply
  20. Corky

     /  30th November 2019

    Corky’s motion of Intent:

    After whining about not being happy with either National or Labour in government, I’ve had a change of heart. I believe, on balance, National need to be the next government.

    I will start that process tonight. Let’s hope I’m not too late. I believe National is the last hope for us to get some semblance of a logical platform for law and order. However, I’m not holding my breath. I’m hoping National will at least deliver on 40% of their promises of coming down hard on crime.

    Another term of Labour should be an anathema for any intelligent person.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  30th November 2019

      Can I just clarify that with you, Corks?
      Are you saying that National can now count on your vote in 2020, to cancel out Lurchy’s for the other side?

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  30th November 2019

        No, I won’t be voting. But I will be influencing the country to vote National… or at the very least, not vote for the Left.

        Now, as to the old timer voting, I doubt that will happen. By the time he wakes up and cements his choppers in, then spends hours tied in knots trying to put his strides on, he will
        probably miss the polling booth closing time.

        Reply
    • Duker

       /  30th November 2019

      So the phony laudanorder campaign has got to you …cowering in your home..the party who froze the police budget and numbers for 6 years, who cut the crown solicitors budgets substantially. Back in the 1990s national was the party who introduced the parole at 1/3 of the sentence scheme.. yet you swoon over a bit of tinsel grabbed from the Xmas decorations box as a reducing crime and keeping Bridges as opposition leader for the next year.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  30th November 2019

        What?!!! If you are talking to me, may I suggest you log out for the day..and take some time for yourself.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  30th November 2019

          I wonder how you imagine that you will ‘influence the country’ to do anything.

          Reply
  21. Corky

     /  30th November 2019

    Someone is wondering how I will influence the country to vote National. Well, I could put an ad in the paper and start a social media campaign.

    ”Hi there.” My name is Corky. And guess what? I want you to vote Right at the next election.
    Look…I know what I’m talking about. Another 3 years of Labour and its coalition partners will sink our country economically. No need to think. Let me do that for you. You just vote the RIGHT way at the next election. Thankyou.”

    There you go…I’m sure that will influence about zero people. So I won’t be doing that.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  1st December 2019

      a motherlode of drivel…even for you..Corky.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  1st December 2019

        A motherlode of drivel,eh! This from a paranoid political fanatic who is only out done by Parti.

        If you don’t mind..I’ll stick with my drivel. I have work to do.

        Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  1st December 2019

      He must know who it was who asked the question; my name was on it.

      Telling us how he won’t do it is hardly a convincing answer. I can’t think why someone who calls those who vote deluded and won’t be doing what he tells other people to do wants to encourage these deluded people in their delusion that voting can change things.

      Reply
  22. Alan Wilkinson

     /  1st December 2019

    The only good thing about this scumbag is that he got the death penalty. His evil will mostly impact his victims’ families and his fellow terrorist inmates who will now find it much harder to win release from prison.

    At times like this I do wish I could believe in a hereafter in which he gets what he deserves.

    Reply
  23. Alan Wilkinson

     /  1st December 2019

    Quotes from another interesting paywalled Telegraph article:
    The new European Commission will inherit an EU bitterly divided over migration and between Eastern and Western governments, Britain’s last ever commissioner has warned.

    Sir Julian King told the Sunday Telegraph, as he cleared out the UK’s office for a final time, that the tussle over how to deal with the refugee crisis would continue to pose the greatest challenge to an increasingly fragmented European Parliament.

    Sir Julian is the last of 15 commissioners sent to Brussels by Downing Street since 1975. He served under Jean-Claude Juncker for two and a half years after Jonathan Hill, his predecessor, resigned shortly after the vote for Brexit.
    And
    Breaking his silence on Brexit for the first time, Sir Julian said he did not support a second referendum, which could prove divisive and unpredictable, which has “cost him some friends”. “If it happens then you just need to be a little bit careful what you wish for. Stopping or even reversing a divorce is not the same as starting the honeymoon again,” he said.

    The career diplomat urged the next British government to take a conciliatory approach in trade negotiations with Brussels, insisting the European Commission “was not anti-UK”, and prioritise repairing damaged relations with Dublin.

    Sir Julian revealed he warned Mr Juncker that the troubled history of Ireland and Northern Ireland could not be solved with an EU legal text like the Irish border backstop. Sir Julian spoke warmly of Mr Juncker, who could have anointed him commissioner for “cleaning windows”.

    Instead, with Europe rocked by a succession of brutal terror attacks, he was put in charge of security. “I didn’t plan to come here. I got lucky with Jean-Claude Juncker. We are all going to miss him when he is gone.”
    “He is not a modern manager but he is very human and one of the things I will miss I guess is regular hugs and the occasional kiss,” Sir Julian said. Reflecting on more than 40 years of Britain’s EU membership, Sir Julian said the country should be proud of its role in driving forward the enlargement of the bloc to countries who had been behind the Iron Curtain.

    “We actually managed to reach out and embrace over 100 million people who had been left on the wrong side of history,” he said. The 55-year-old said the EU faced tough choices over its future, including whether to lurch towards protectionism and how to balance economic policies in a bloc with fiscally disciplined countries and those with large public deficits.

    “The incoming commission are going to have a challenge. We should all wish them well because whatever happens we are still going to be neighbours with the EU,” he said, pointing to a divided European Parliament and fragmented politics across European countries.

    “There is still tension between the west and the east. This is a deep issue that will take time to address,” the former UK ambassador to France and Ireland said. People in Eastern European countries, some of which have faced European Commission action over the rule of law, felt there was double standards at work with Western countries treated more leniently, he added.

    Reply
  24. Alan Wilkinson

     /  1st December 2019

    Conservatism à la Boris:
    https://spectator.us/austerity-forward-interview-boris-johnson

    (Contrast with Simon)

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  1st December 2019

      … and compare with Jacinda & Grant:

      After 45, almost 50 years of EU membership, people were feeling that parts of the UK were simply being ignored. The model of our society, the model of our economy that the EU membership seemed to go along with was basically leaving people behind. What I want to do — and that’s why I find this whole thing so frustrating — is get on with a program of leveling up. A program of uniting the country. I want to see change. I want to see this country very different in ten, 15 years’ time. I want to see that change in regions and towns that have been neglected.’ The remedy, he says, is ‘infrastructure and education and technology.’

      Given that Johnson has never met a bridge that he doesn’t like, this emphasis on infrastructure is unsurprising. It’s also the backbone of his new economic policy: to borrow more, as long as interest rates are low and the cash is used to invest in infrastructure. It is clear that if he returns to No. 10 on December 13, the usual government rules on the funding of such projects will be ripped up. Previous governments, he says, have taken too cold a view on which parts of Britain deserve investment. He promises a fresh approach.

      ‘The Treasury has basically looked at certain parts of the country and thought that they weren’t cash cows, from the point of view of delivering revenue,’ he says. ‘I take a different view. That this country is so underprovided for in brilliant infrastructure that you can make a good business case for many things.’

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  1st December 2019

        Yes, J&G cancelled the infrastructure projects in the regions in order to build cycleways and railways in the cities where their votes are. Their offer to the regions is welfare not infrastructure. And Shane Jones.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  1st December 2019

          Ah, yes, fixing up 9 long years of neglect, dangerous roads etc – but now Grant’s announced that borrowing at cheap interest is the way to go to adress infrastructure, & capacity building, hasn’t he? More details to come. The classic election year spend-up that can be very persuasive for a first term government that “can’t fix all the problems the last lot left us in just 3 years”

          Reply
  25. Corky

     /  1st December 2019

    Socialist are trying to steal my money when I import goods.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2019/12/online-gst-rules-kick-in.html

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  1st December 2019

      I have a feeling the work to get this gst from overseas companies started under National.

      Will they be reversing the rules if National gets in? Have they said?

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  1st December 2019

        Never mind, it seems unlikely.

        Kaikoura MP Stuart Smith
        New Zealand businesses are currently disadvantaged by a loophole that means that GST is not collected on low-value goods purchased from overseas websites.

        This creates a reverse tariff which unfairly discriminates against Kiwi retailers. As we all know, business confidence under this Government is at its lowest since 2009 experiencing a 35 per cent drop in the September quarter. The Government definitely need to start making changes to boost business confidence.

        Therefore it is good to see that the Government has adopted a policy which started under National in new legislation which will require overseas websites selling goods here online to charge and collect GST by December 1 this year.

        We did express our concerns that the required date for compliance was too rushed. Companies such as eBay and Alibaba expressed similar concerns and it will be worrying if they are forced to suspend their New Zealand operations until next year to the make the technical updates necessary to comply with these new tax laws.

        It is clear though that it is not fair that offshore suppliers have an immediate 15 per cent competitive advantage against small business all across New Zealand. Businesses should start on a level playing field.

        These changes will be beneficial for many small businesses who are in direct competition with overseas businesses. A business based in NZ selling the same item as an overseas business will now be charging similar prices. This should result in Kiwis spending more of their dollars here in New Zealand instead of going offshore.

        New Zealand ranks first in the world for doing business. Small businesses are a major reason for this, employing nearly 30 per cent of our total workforce and contributing over a quarter of our GDP. They support regional economic growth and are crucial in meeting the supply needs of larger exporting businesses.

        The future of our economy weighs heavily on the success and growth of the small business sector. We must ensure we keep making positive changes to maintain small business competitiveness and confidence in an ever-changing technological and globalised business environment.

        More needs to be done to support our small business, particularly in the regions.

        As these business continue to expand, many are finding it hard to attract workers to fill holes. This in combination with significant visa delays isn’t making things any easier. New Zealand businesses always have and will continue to rely on migrant workers. The Government is simply making it too hard for businesses to get workers.

        This is expected to only get worse. High cost pressures and uncertainty around Government policies are also seeing businesses cutting staff and reducing their investment options. We need to increase business confidence so that small businesses are able to expand while raising employment and incomes.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/117674042/local-businesses-hope-to-get-boost-from-gst-for-online-purchases

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  1st December 2019

        ”I have a feeling the work to get this gst from overseas companies started under National.”

        Correct.

        ”Will they be reversing the rules if National gets in? ”

        No.

        To make matters worse, any goods over $1000 requires an inordinate about of paperwork and Ids etc. Honestly, I feels like I’m importing nuclear missile parts.

        Reply
  26. Corky

     /  1st December 2019

    Just seen 1 News. The terrorist shot dead was shown a few years earlier telling the world he was no terrorist. A classic case of Taqiyya. Next we saw a picture of this prick and the man he killed – ironically one of the facilitators at the course this terrorist was attending. The terrorist look greasy and sly…the man he killed, open, white and bright. One belonged in the West..the other didn’t. Isis has claimed responsibility although they have offered no proof.

    And as usual everyone is angsting over what happened, what didn’t happen and what should happen. Idiots.

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  1st December 2019

      Correction: Prime News.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  1st December 2019

        Isis has claimed responsibility although they have offered no proof.

        IS seems to claim responsibility for any Islamist terrorist attack anywhere that isn’t specifically first claimed by another group such as The Taliban. Given that they’ve called for attacks against Westerners and Europe on a regular basis even if an attacker doesn’t mention them they can always say they inspired them.

        Reply

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